Will Apollo ever get another game?
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Re: Will Apollo ever get another game?
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People can speculate and theorize about what happened to Apollo, but until we get more details on AA5 or/and when the game itself is actually released, there's not much basis on whether or not Apollo will get another game.
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If, however, they make a fair number of references to parts of AJ that weren't directly about Phoenix, without going into great depth, I would view that as them holding onto the loose threads of AJ to save for game where Apollo was back as the protagonist.
Personally I'm fine either way as long as I find out about Kristoph's black psych locks. What did they mean?!?
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Beautiful_Blue wrote:
Personally I'm fine either way as long as I find out about Kristoph's black psych locks. What did they mean?!?
I always thought that was just a cop-out to show that Kristoph was "pure evil". Hell, if we'd ever had a chance to use the magatama on Dahlia she probably would've shown black lock as well.
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LightningfistCal wrote:
Beautiful_Blue wrote:
Personally I'm fine either way as long as I find out about Kristoph's black psych locks. What did they mean?!?
I always thought that was just a cop-out to show that Kristoph was "pure evil". Hell, if we'd ever had a chance to use the magatama on Dahlia she probably would've shown black lock as well.
I guess that's possible; I haven't played Apollo Justice in awhile so I don't precisely remember the situation that was going on when they appeared. I remember thinking that they were some secret that was deeper and darker than any of others you'd come across. I also remember being disappointed when it wasn't explicitly explained what they were...
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I just feel like that sentence is going to come up regarding Apollo on the game. That's considering the hypothesis that Capcom, despite announcing that they did NOT retcon AJ:AA, still want to mention as little of the game as possible. But who really knows, eh? Like I previously said it's too damn hard to discern anything with the limited info presented to us so far.
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I think they won't use Apollo again, since they made these new fancy 3D sprites for Phoenix I imagine GS6 would be more of the same so the assets don't go to waste.
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Pierre wrote:
I think they won't use Apollo again, since they made these new fancy 3D sprites for Phoenix I imagine GS6 would be more of the same so the assets don't go to waste.
If that's the only thing preventing Apollo from having another shot at being the protagonist, then that is truly ridiculous. I understand your point that Capcom would want to use the 3D sprites of Phoenix to their full potential, but that's not a reason for not using Apollo in a later installment or even a spinoff game.
I'm not Capcom, so I don't know if they'll give Apollo another chance at the spotlight. Should they, though? Absolutely. Even if GS5 were to tie up all the loose ends in Apollo's backstory (which in and of itself isn't a great idea because it would be a lot more effective if he was the protagonist), he should still be able to get out of the Phoenix's shadow and establish himself in the world of law. He should, as he said at the end of Case 4-4, find out what the law is all about on his own, just as Mia and Phoenix did before him.
There's a great story to be told in that premise that doesn't have to be a retread of Phoenix's path. And while it's fun to read a fan's interpretation or write your own, I think a more official story would be preferred.
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Which is too bad because Apollo is my favorite AA character.
In fact,
Spoiler: bad theory about GS5
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Reimitsurugi wrote:
From the looks of it, no one died on the court bombing, it's just that, a bombing. Apollo being a murder victim seems farfetched, at least, in my opinion. I can't see it happening, seeing as how the ending of Apollo Justice seemed to suggest that the setting for the next game would be centered on Apollo, aka, character development.
Well if they did murder Apollo it would be rather sad. Though from the tone of things it seems like having Pheonix as a main has killed his chances of starring ever again off for good.
However on a positive note lets say: Apollo will get at least one case as a surprise plot point near the end.
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Quote:
Well if they did murder Apollo it would be rather sad.
It would be even sadder depending on the circumstances (whether or not he knew his mother was alive).
Quote:
Though from the tone of things it seems like having Pheonix as a main has killed his chances of starring ever again off for good.
They could always make a spin-off series with him. Edgeworth is as much as an icon to AA as Nick is, but his own franchise is a branch of the GS tree.
Quote:
Apollo will get at least one case as a surprise plot point near the end.
If Edgey got an investigation and court phase on TaT, then Apollo has more of a right, seeing as how the game takes place a year after his story.
Quote:
If they killed off Apollo in the first case I would cry so much. In fact I'd be so upset that I wouldn't complete the rest of the game and would take out the cartridge and stomp on the bastard.
I wouldn't go to that extreme and honestly, the bombing only looks like that, a bombing. No one died, it's as if som.eone is trying to establish that he's above the law, y'know, like Quercus Alba's theme: the Enemy who surpasses the law
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Pierre wrote:
However on a positive note lets say: Apollo will get at least one case as a surprise plot point near the end.
I would love it if they gave Polly a piece of the final case. I'll admit, I prefer Phoenix, and I was happy when I found out he was the protagonist. But I love Polly too, so if I could play as both of them I'd be overjoyed. It would be especially fun if the prosecutors tagged teamed during that case too.
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Sure, Apollo only had 1 game but he greatly irritated me in AJ and he doesn't need to star again. I can imagine a scene where Thalassa tells him and Trucy that they're a family. The look on Apollo's face would be priceless.
Phoenix is the main character associated with the AA series, and he should always remain that. There's still lots to be done with him e.g. him getting back his badge, reuniting with old friends (:D) and his changed personality. Apollo was too similar to Phoenix although maybe given time he might have developed into a new character. But Phoenix FTW.
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Phoenix is getting his badge back on this game, as for reuniting with old friends? It could happen but i don't see Edgeworth, Gumshoe, Franziska or any other important character from the original trilogy being main characters here..it would be interesting to find out what happened to Iris though.
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'Sides, I think part of the point of AJ was to give some time and new history to Phoenix. Quite a bit of his back story had been fleshed out before AJ was made. Those seven years have given quite a bit more time to be explored through new cases, that may or may not tie into that time period. Also, the interaction between Phoenix and any characters from the starting trilogy will be interesting.
If Polly is just put on a bus and never mentioned again, there'll be a very sad Kim sulking for a few weeks.
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If there is a case pertaining those seven years, who could be the defense attorney? Phoenix was disbarred and Apollo was too young. I think that is why we were given the Mason System.
I started with Phoenix too and to be honest i don't understand the dislike towards Apollo..If anything GS4 refreshed the franchise and gave opportunity to branch out story lines..
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Charlieboy90 wrote:
If there is a case pertaining those seven years, who could be the defense attorney? Phoenix was disbarred and Apollo was too young. I think that is why we were given the Mason System.
Ah. I meant to imply a case that involves perhaps a person that Phoenix met during those seven years. Someone from his Hobo days that we didn't meet in AJ?
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With more Phoenix action and him getting his badge back, putting Apollo in some part of the game would be just like Ema in AAI: forced, random and pointless, just to say "he's alive" when fans ask where is he. The result will be a game in which Apollo Justice, more or less, never existed. Hell, even Trucy herself hasn't been mentioned yet.
The only chance of an Apollo game would be a spinoff, but I doubt that is gonna happen, because a) Sho Takumi is always trying to end the AA series and GS5 won't be an exception, I think, and b) the material to work with will be insufficient.
So, yeah, we'll only get to see the AJ characters dying out without even getting proper character development.
LightningfistCal wrote:
Hell, if we'd ever had a chance to use the magatama on Dahlia she probably would've shown black lock as well.
Nope. We get to see Dahlia's psyche-locks during 3-5 and they're normal.
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VCM wrote:
There's no conceivable way of placing Apollo under the spotlight again. Why? Because there's no more space for him. More Phoenix means more cameos and less and less space for the AJ crew. And you can blame anti-AJ fans for that; the bitching about Apollo, Klavier and Ema was such that Capcom thought it best to just forget all about AJ. They're all going to magically disappear and be given retarded vague mentions like they did with Phoenix in AAI.
With more Phoenix action and him getting his badge back, putting Apollo in some part of the game would be just like Ema in AAI: forced, random and pointless, just to say "he's alive" when fans ask where is he. The result will be a game in which Apollo Justice, more or less, never existed. Hell, even Trucy herself hasn't been mentioned yet.
The only chance of an Apollo game would be a spinoff, but I doubt that is gonna happen, because a) Sho Takumi is always trying to end the AA series and GS5 won't be an exception, I think, and b) the material to work with will be insufficient.
So, yeah, we'll only get to see the AJ characters dying out without even getting proper character development.
With more Phoenix action and him getting his badge back, putting Apollo in some part of the game would be just like Ema in AAI: forced, random and pointless, just to say "he's alive" when fans ask where is he. The result will be a game in which Apollo Justice, more or less, never existed. Hell, even Trucy herself hasn't been mentioned yet.
The only chance of an Apollo game would be a spinoff, but I doubt that is gonna happen, because a) Sho Takumi is always trying to end the AA series and GS5 won't be an exception, I think, and b) the material to work with will be insufficient.
So, yeah, we'll only get to see the AJ characters dying out without even getting proper character development.
Oh, ye of little faith.
Alright, I acknowledge that opinions of the Apollo Justice cast were not great overall, and I acknowledge that the staff has been trying to end the series. But I don't buy this theory that Capcom is being pressured by their fans to erase Apollo Justice from existence. If that were true, they wouldn't explicitly say that GS5 takes place one year after Apollo Justice. They'd just ignore it altogether. It's too late for them to do a full retcon, and I think they're smart enough to know that.
Also, not enough material to work with? That's absurd. I've written several stories involving Apollo and his past in particular. If I can come up with ideas, I'm sure Capcom's writing staff can do so as well.
Just because Phoenix is the protagonist this time around doesn't mean that it's over for Apollo, or at least it shouldn't be. I feel that thinking otherwise is just jumping to conclusions. No offense.
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Apollo's arc (and trucy's) is nowhere near done. I bet we'll get an appearance. That much I'm sure of.
For the record, people are using AAI as an example of why they think Apollo will be ignored, and that's a valid point, but I think the AAI team was very smart about who they included and who they couldn't. As a side-game interquel which couldn't add too much to the overall world development, they made the smart decision not to mention Phoenix by name or have a bunch of cameos by imporant characters. That was that.
This is GS5. They are writing the future of the franchise, and considering the fact that AAI had more cameos than any of the Takumi games (I think the reason there were so many were because they were forced to use secondary characters and hence couldn't have any of them take up too big a role.) I think Apollo and Trucy will have at least one or two memorable appearances.
However, I do worry that Apollo won't get as much screentime as he deserves. I'm really hoping he has a big impact on the game, but I'm not so sure that will happen.
It really depends on how the team looks at GS4. Is it:
1) A New game with a new character, and Phoenix is there to push the "revolving door" and get Apollo into the main character role (This would be the equivalent of a spin-off/sequel TV series which has the history of the former series but is its own entity.)
2) A game in the main series with a new character who is a valuable character in the franchise but is only there temporarily, mainly to take over while another character is gone (This would be the equivalent of an character of a TV series not appearing for a season, and for that season a new character takes over. When the original character returns, the new one becomes an important side character,)
3) A game in the main series that was a misstep by the creator in his attempt to end the series. Apollo isn't important to the series and Phoenix being back is in the best interests of everyone. (This would be the equivalent of a new spin-off/series created with a new character that did not do well and was cancelled. The original character comes back and everyone does their best to ignore the events of the spin-off, while still acknowledging the events of the series while they have to.)
I used to consider AJ as option 1, but with GS5 now I am fine with it being option 2. This is what I hope the team considers GS4, but I worry that they may view GS4 as option 3. In that case, we're only going to get what is required and won't have any real development.
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Little_Thief wrote:
VCM wrote:
There's no conceivable way of placing Apollo under the spotlight again. Why? Because there's no more space for him. More Phoenix means more cameos and less and less space for the AJ crew. And you can blame anti-AJ fans for that; the bitching about Apollo, Klavier and Ema was such that Capcom thought it best to just forget all about AJ. They're all going to magically disappear and be given retarded vague mentions like they did with Phoenix in AAI.
With more Phoenix action and him getting his badge back, putting Apollo in some part of the game would be just like Ema in AAI: forced, random and pointless, just to say "he's alive" when fans ask where is he. The result will be a game in which Apollo Justice, more or less, never existed. Hell, even Trucy herself hasn't been mentioned yet.
The only chance of an Apollo game would be a spinoff, but I doubt that is gonna happen, because a) Sho Takumi is always trying to end the AA series and GS5 won't be an exception, I think, and b) the material to work with will be insufficient.
So, yeah, we'll only get to see the AJ characters dying out without even getting proper character development.
With more Phoenix action and him getting his badge back, putting Apollo in some part of the game would be just like Ema in AAI: forced, random and pointless, just to say "he's alive" when fans ask where is he. The result will be a game in which Apollo Justice, more or less, never existed. Hell, even Trucy herself hasn't been mentioned yet.
The only chance of an Apollo game would be a spinoff, but I doubt that is gonna happen, because a) Sho Takumi is always trying to end the AA series and GS5 won't be an exception, I think, and b) the material to work with will be insufficient.
So, yeah, we'll only get to see the AJ characters dying out without even getting proper character development.
Oh, ye of little faith.
Alright, I acknowledge that opinions of the Apollo Justice cast were not great overall, and I acknowledge that the staff has been trying to end the series. But I don't buy this theory that Capcom is being pressured by their fans to erase Apollo Justice from existence. If that were true, they wouldn't explicitly say that GS5 takes place one year after Apollo Justice. They'd just ignore it altogether. It's too late for them to do a full retcon, and I think they're smart enough to know that.
Also, not enough material to work with? That's absurd. I've written several stories involving Apollo and his past in particular. If I can come up with ideas, I'm sure Capcom's writing staff can do so as well.
Just because Phoenix is the protagonist this time around doesn't mean that it's over for Apollo, or at least it shouldn't be. I feel that thinking otherwise is just jumping to conclusions. No offense.
Yeah, I guess I overreacted a bit. It's just that Capcom's been very disappointing lately. But really, I don't see Apollo taking a coherent role in GS5, though when I think about it, the possibility of a spinoff AJ game can exist after all.
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Magicialattorney97 wrote:
I believe that Apollo might not make a major appearance in GS5, but maybe a appearance in at least a case. Apollo's story would probably be a spinoff series that in an other game besides GS5, where Apollo's story would be more fleshed out and detailed. Well those are my thoughts anyways....And I really enjoyed playing Apollo Justice, so at least I want to know more about Apollo and Trucy
That's another thing Capcom can do; make Apollo a spinoff. They made the GK series a branch out of the GS tree with a character as popular as Edgeworth, so why not do the same for Polly? If GS5 features VERY little things related with Justice, I'm sure we, the fans, will be hungry for some Odoroki.
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Charlieboy90 wrote:
If there is a case pertaining those seven years, who could be the defense attorney?
Kristoph Gavin, possibly?
Anyway, as someone who doesn't care for Apollo, I have to say that I really don't want to see him again (at least, in the role of main character - a cameo or two would be fine, I suppose).
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and 
might still be secondary characters in GS5.After all, GS1 waited until its 2nd case before introducing us to
, 
, and 
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Also, what point would Edgeworth, Gumshoe or Maya have had in the 1st case? Nothing, never made sense. Also, since we saw Maya and Edgeworth on the cover, it was obvious they'd appear soon. (Ya hear that, Kay? No shit random appearance in Case 3 onward when you're supposed to be someone important)
And this thread is more about Apollo being the main char of another GS game, not just making a brief cameo or being demoted to secondary character.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
I doubt it, seriously. There was so much backlash from the fanbase(albeit most of it just people crying over Phoenix's new appearance/not being the main character) over Apollo that I don't think Capcom would be willing to touch the idea of another game with him as the protagonist with a ten foot pole.
Again, I doubt the backlash was that bad. If it was, Apollo Justice would've been retconned outright. The fact that it wasn't leaves the potential for more stories to be told about Apollo.
I will grant that the backlash might be the reason Phoenix is our protagonist now, but it certainly doesn't justify ignoring Apollo altogether. In fact, the main complaint you mentioned (Phoenix's appearance in Apollo Justice) is nullified by the fact that he's our protagonist in GS5. If the writers are smart, they can use Phoenix's reemergence as a way to build on Apollo in a spinoff series (like they did with Edgeworth) without inviting that sort of scorn.
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Quote:
Again, I doubt the backlash was that bad. If it was, Apollo Justice would've been retconned outright. The fact that it wasn't leaves the potential for more stories to be told about Apollo.
Before you make the claim that if it was "that bad" AJ would have been retconned, let's take a look at some of the more...infamous...video game plot/plot moments that have drawn fan ire, shall we?
=====
Consider several recent video games/parts of video games that have received major backlash recently.
Metroid: Other M: Probably the most polarizing game of the Metroid series, fans along each side were bitterly divided as to Samus' personality, most believing that it had made her look like a wimp and some going so far as to say that it ruined her forever.
Status: Not retconned.
Mass Effect 3: Loved as a game, but its ending was despised by nearly everyone who played it. Labeled as "the worst ending to a trilogy of all time" by quite a few video game websites.
Status: Not retconned, an alternate DLC ending that didn't change much was made available for sale about a month afterwards.
Assassin's Creed 3: (minor spoilers) In much the same way as Mass Effect 3, a well liked game that's ending had many fans enraged. Some AC fans claim it was worse than ME3's.
Status: Not retconned.
=====
I bring all of this up to say that video game companies are usually very slow to retcon anything. Games and game endings that have drawn even more hatred from its fan bases than AJ did(if you can call the reactions towards AJ "hatred") have remained canon, so there's very little reason to think that this would possibly ever be retconned.
If you would care to visit some of the people who generally dislike Apollo more, I would invite you to visit the Ace Attorney forum on the CU boards. They seem to be much less inclined to like Apollo than people on this website.
At any rate, I do not believe there will ever be another Ace Attorney game with Apollo as the main protagonist. There could definitely be a case or two where you take control of him, especially if one of the future AA games does some explaining on the backstory of the Gramaryes, but I don't think he'll ever reclaim his role as the main protagonist.
Phoenix is just a far better liked character among the AA fan base than Apollo is.
EDIT: In response to the spin off idea...I'd be kinda surprised if there are any AA spin offs for a while. Neither AAI or GK2 sold particularly well(the two games combined for around 600K units sold in Japan, whereas AJ alone sold 690K).
Kind of a shame, cause I liked the Investigations series. Not quite as much as the old AA games, but they were fun.
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
=====
Consider several recent video games/parts of video games that have received major backlash recently.
Metroid: Other M: Probably the most polarizing game of the Metroid series, fans along each side were bitterly divided as to Samus' personality, most believing that it had made her look like a wimp and some going so far as to say that it ruined her forever.
Status: Not retconned.
Mass Effect 3: Loved as a game, but its ending was despised by nearly everyone who played it. Labeled as "the worst ending to a trilogy of all time" by quite a few video game websites.
Status: Not retconned, an alternate DLC ending that didn't change much was made available for sale about a month afterwards.
Assassin's Creed 3: (minor spoilers) In much the same way as Mass Effect 3, a well liked game that's ending had many fans enraged. Some AC fans claim it was worse than ME3's.
Status: Not retconned.
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I bring all of this up to say that video game companies are usually very slow to retcon anything. Games and game endings that have drawn even more hatred from its fan bases than AJ did(if you can call the reactions towards AJ "hatred") have remained canon, so there's very little reason to think that this would possibly ever be retconned.
Consider several recent video games/parts of video games that have received major backlash recently.
Metroid: Other M: Probably the most polarizing game of the Metroid series, fans along each side were bitterly divided as to Samus' personality, most believing that it had made her look like a wimp and some going so far as to say that it ruined her forever.
Status: Not retconned.
Mass Effect 3: Loved as a game, but its ending was despised by nearly everyone who played it. Labeled as "the worst ending to a trilogy of all time" by quite a few video game websites.
Status: Not retconned, an alternate DLC ending that didn't change much was made available for sale about a month afterwards.
Assassin's Creed 3: (minor spoilers) In much the same way as Mass Effect 3, a well liked game that's ending had many fans enraged. Some AC fans claim it was worse than ME3's.
Status: Not retconned.
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I bring all of this up to say that video game companies are usually very slow to retcon anything. Games and game endings that have drawn even more hatred from its fan bases than AJ did(if you can call the reactions towards AJ "hatred") have remained canon, so there's very little reason to think that this would possibly ever be retconned.
There's a key flaw in your premise. All of the examples you named? None of them have sequels (except for Other M, but Metroid Fusion was made before that). The reason these series don't have retcons is because there isn't a next game in those series to attempt a retcon (and in the case of Mass Effect 3, there never will be, at least from what I hear). Short of that or the Word of God, at least two of these series are still open for retcon in the next installment, at least to my thinking.
Not to mention that your argument is stating that game companies are slow to employ retcons. Apollo Justice was made in 2007. It's now 2012. Are you saying that five years is too short a time to employ a retcon, especially considering that Apollo Justice was supposed to be the last game in the Phoenix Wright series? Sorry, I'm just not buying it.
Now, to be fair, your argument does have some merit, especially in the Mass Effect department. In fact, I'd say that your suggestion for Apollo to be a substitute attorney in some cases involving the Gramaryes is the least Capcom can do. I just think that Apollo deserves more than that. But hey, that's just me.
Re: Will Apollo ever get another game?
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