Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:39 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Hello everyone.

I assume everyone here is as excited about the upcoming Ace Attorney game as I am. However, being the nervous guy that I am, I can't help but worry a bit about things that might go wrong. So even though it is too early to say anything for sure/judge something too harshly, I decided to share my thoughts with everyone here and I hope you'll do the same!

My biggest fear would be having too much Apollo.

I don't mind Apollo, I really don't, but he just had a game, and Phoenix hasn't been a protagonist for eight years. If there are five cases in this game as it usually is, then I'd prefer it if Apollo just had one. His character needs to be fleshed out a bit, but he doesn't have to be playable in order to become more complex.

Also, judging by what we've seen so far, it looks like Athena is yet ANOTHER spunky cute teenage genius (considering how much free time teenagers have here, I wonder if school is mandatory in this universe...) I sort of don't want another Maya wannabe just because she adds a new feature - which would be a problem in itself, being added to the game for the sole reason of using the mood matrix.

And lastly, like most people, I'm afraid Maya won't show up, but if they're so adamant about revealing anything about her, I suspect she'll be involved one way or the other. I guess my fear would be her being a victim/accused of something again.

So yeah, those are my primary concerns. What about yours?

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:31 am

Wooster

Deputy of Self-Esteem

Gender: Male

Location: Connecticut

Rank: Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:36 pm

Posts: 3449

I wouldn't worry about too much Apollo. If anything I was worried about too much Phoenix. But since my current theory is Phoenix gets cases 1 and 4. Apollo Gets 2 and 3, and a team up on 5. I'm content. I don't want Phoenix. His story has been told. He went from Trainee attorney in GS1 to lawyer god by the end of GS3. There's no where left for him to grow, but I hope the writers will prove me wrong.

Apollo was supposed to head his own trilogy. He had by far the best selling game in Japan at the time of its launch. But allegedly fans in Japan didn't take well to him so the main saga went on a long hiatus and GS5 DS was canned after being green lit. Granted, Apollo has as dull a personality as Phoenix, but Phoenix was built for a one off game. Apollo was made with the foresight of a trilogy. I would much rather have a character made for more games at the head of the saga then someone who wasn't.

Right now, I'm more concerned about Simon. We've got Payne, Edgeworth, and Klavier also fighting for the prosecutor's bench. I don't want him to become Franny of GS2 with but two cases to her name in her own game.

Another concern I have is that in the promo poster, there are 6 major returning characters, and 3 major new characters. New characters are important to life of any saga. For mysteries it's double important. If GS5 becomes little more then a cameo party like the majority of Ace Attorney Investigations, I don't have much hope for the longevity of the series.

Bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:05 am

ekree

100% whole grain, now with added fiber!

Gender: Male

Location: America

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:37 pm

Posts: 110

Thane wrote:

Also, judging by what we've seen so far, it looks like Athena is yet ANOTHER spunky cute teenage genius (considering how much free time teenagers have here, I wonder if school is mandatory in this universe...) I sort of don't want another Maya wannabe just because she adds a new feature - which would be a problem in itself, being added to the game for the sole reason of using the mood matrix.

Yeah, at first I was a bit disappointed at the idea of adding another perky teen girl sidekick to the pile. I have to say though, I'm a bit more optimistic about Athena after hearing she's also a lawyer and is apparently more "determined to win" than the other sidekicks. I'm hoping those two things will help give her a bit of a different dynamic.

Thane wrote:

And lastly, like most people, I'm afraid Maya won't show up, but if they're so adamant about revealing anything about her, I suspect she'll be involved one way or the other. I guess my fear would be her being a victim/accused of something again.

I might be in the minority, but I'd rather Maya/Pearl just not have big roles in the plot here. A "where they are now" type cameo would be nice to see, but as far as I'm concerned, T&T finished their story. It's time to move on and let the other characters shine. At this point seeing something like Maya being suspected of murder again or some such would just be jarring in my opinion.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:26 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Wooster wrote:

I wouldn't worry about too much Apollo. If anything I was worried about too much Phoenix. But since my current theory is Phoenix gets cases 1 and 4. Apollo Gets 2 and 3, and a team up on 5. I'm content. I don't want Phoenix. His story has been told. He went from Trainee attorney in GS1 to lawyer god by the end of GS3. There's no where left for him to grow, but I hope the writers will prove me wrong.

This is one of those little pet peeves I have. Just because some fans have seen the story of a character complete, they assume their story should be sealed up and locked underground for good. But what has hooked me into this series is not just the stories; it's about living in this alternate universe based loosely on our own. It's a much more realistic game than most that I've ever seen. (No, I have never seen an RPG that is based on real life. If there exists such a thing, then anyone is welcome to introduce it to me.)

That said, a person who has a story to tell at age 24 has a completely different story to tell at age 34. What dominates this game isn't Phoenix himself anyway. It's gone from the story of Phoenix to the story of the legendary office instead. The fact that this game is leading toward a focus that isn't on any particular character intrigues me. It shows a growth of the series' writing.

Of course, there's also the chance that the writers are just milking the franchise for what it's worth. That explains all the returning cameos, and I honestly don't see Pearl or Trucy taking major roles. They just wanted them up there on that poster. Yes, normally these posters include characters that best represent the game, but other times, they're just made to look cool.

I agree that I'm not that impressed by Simon based on what I've seen of him. He's not original enough yet. Sure, he has a hawk, but until we get some actual backstory to him, he seems like a rip-off of some other character from a certain manga...

I also want something else from Fulbright's personality. He's a big, lovable oaf kind of guy, okay. So far, that sounds like Gumshoe... but wait, Fulbright speaks in extra volume! Oh, but Gumshoe can do that too... At the very least, I can tell we can't mock Fulbright for his financial troubles. That looks like a FINE detective's coat.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:21 am

Bolt Storm

元・超会社員級の管理人

Gender: Male

Location: Hiding beneath the judge's desk

Rank: Admin

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:05 pm

Posts: 3303

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

That said, a person who has a story to tell at age 24 has a completely different story to tell at age 34. What dominates this game isn't Phoenix himself anyway. It's gone from the story of Phoenix to the story of the legendary office instead. The fact that this game is leading toward a focus that isn't on any particular character intrigues me. It shows a growth of the series' writing.

This is actually something I'm very much looking forward to seeing. In the dev blog on the GS5 site, Yamazaki mentioned that though GS1-3 were "Phoenix as a rookie attorney", they wanted GS5 to be "Phoenix as a rookie head of a law office." While I'm still not the most thrilled about him being the main protagonist, I'm hopeful that they'll be able to build off GS4 Phoenix and develop him into as sort of the father figure of the "Wright family", if you will. Phoenix's always been more defined by those around him than his own personality, in any event.

With regards to Athena, I'm hopeful as well. While on the surface she's 'another perky assistant', as it were, the descriptions of her being so driven to win, the fact she's an attorney in her own right, and the fact that she's playable for at least part of case 3 make me think that she'll feel much more fleshed-out an assistant than, say, Kay was.

Apollo looks like he might (ironically enough) be the key to this game's plot in a way he never was in his own game. He's playable for case 2, he's helping out in case 3 with his bracelet, and he's of course got the dramatic injuries and the big scene in the trailer of him leaving the agency. I could see Apollo's shifting views on the 'truth' driving a lot of Phoenix, Athena, and Trucy's actions, especially if the "Prosecutor Justice" theory winds up panning out for the final case or something.

...Sorry, getting sidetracked here.

Like Wooster and Ryu, I'm a little concerned about Simon. For prosecutors, we've already got Payne for case 1, Simon for case 2, Klavier's around in case 3 (though who knows how the mock trial ties into the actual one), and Edgeworth's waiting in the wings for something (presumably case 4 or 5). Simon's starting to look like Franziska or Lang if we've got this many other prosecutors running around, and it goes double if (as I suspect) he winds up in the defendant's chair at some point. While I'm sure his crime will tie into the plot in a big way, so far we just haven't seen enough of him to really sell me on him.

Having Trucy and Pearl back is nice, since we haven't seen either of them in quite a while, but while Trucy is natural I admit I'm not really sold on Pearl playing a good-sized role in the game. My guess is that (like Edgeworth) she'll actually only be around for case 4 and/or 5. Really what's more worrying is that where Pearl goes, Maya probably does too, especially with Eshiro's teasing about it versus his all-but-denial of Gumshoe. I'm worried that if they bring Maya back, she'll be portrayed as pretty much the exact same character except now she's head of Kurain.

Really what a lot of this boils down to is that we've just got a really big 'main' cast here, and there's probably a few more returning characters they won't reveal before release. Looking back, GS3 did something similar, but GS3 was meant to cap off Phoenix's trilogy. GS5 is meant to (presumably) kick off a new leg of the series, but we've got so many returning big names already I'm afraid it'll sag under the weight. It's good to have returning characters - it keeps the series coherent - but it's not so good to have a lot of returning characters and possibly play a lot of them off as "hey look, in 8 years all that's changed is their appearance."

Of course, I'm hoping that I'll be proven wrong here, and that GS5 will have more than enough freshness to it, and that even the old characters will see some growth. But the AAI games don't exactly have a stellar track record for that.

Hi! I've largely stepped back from C-R due to life stuff. Please contact one of the other staff members for help!

Wooster wrote:

If there was such a thing as the "Wooster Seal of Approval", this post would get it.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:15 am

PokerJoker811

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:28 am

Posts: 38

I only have one major concern with AA5, and I've actually posted it before: Self-contained stories.

Throughout the Ace Attorney series, we've had some great storylines, weaving through multiple cases. The problem is, there's a sense of finality to almost every game, as if we have to wonder if there's any real room for the story to be added on to. Envisioning the story of the games as one large novel (not seperate ones for each game, one book for the whole series), the last game that was released where you couldn't picture a giant THE END at the bottom of the page was JFA. Now, I love the intertwined stories, but I don't want to see people frantically wondering about the theoretical AA6 with no cues to go off of after AA5 is finished.

(I'm sure I could've worded this more articulately, but it's late as I'm posting this, and I think you get the idea.)

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:03 am

Lusankya

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Posts: 1047

Wooster wrote:

Right now, I'm more concerned about Simon. We've got Payne, Edgeworth, and Klavier also fighting for the prosecutor's bench. I don't want him to become Franny of GS2 with but two cases to her name in her own game.

Another concern I have is that in the promo poster, there are 6 major returning characters, and 3 major new characters. New characters are important to life of any saga. For mysteries it's double important. If GS5 becomes little more then a cameo party like the majority of Ace Attorney Investigations, I don't have much hope for the longevity of the series.

I think I already said it several times, but you all seem to have forgotten about Trials & Tribulations.

So T&T is widely regarded as the best or at least one of the best AA game(s) in the series. No one complained about the 4 prosecutors in T&T or about the T&T poster where we see 6 major returning characters and only 1 major new character (and overall we had a huge number of cameos). But for some reason many are complaining about the 4 prosecutors in DD and about the number of major returning characters.

Doesn't make any sense at all.

I am also not worried about Athena at all. She doesn't belong to the same category of sidekicks as Maya, Ema or Trucy. First, she is a lawyer herself and second, she is also a playable character.

ekree wrote:

I might be in the minority, but I'd rather Maya/Pearl just not have big roles in the plot here. A "where they are now" type cameo would be nice to see, but as far as I'm concerned, T&T finished their story. It's time to move on and let the other characters shine. At this point seeing something like Maya being suspected of murder again or some such would just be jarring in my opinion.

It's impossible for Capcom/for the writer to satisfy every fan. On the one hand many fans cry for the return of Maya on the other hand we have fans who detest all returning characters. Lose - lose situation.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:21 am

Wooster

Deputy of Self-Esteem

Gender: Male

Location: Connecticut

Rank: Admin

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:36 pm

Posts: 3449

@Rubia Silve Ryu

When we hit GS7, I'd be content to not have Apollo or Phoenix back. The problem with continuing to use Phoenix especially is that we already know what makes him tick, his origins, his friends. It really hurts him because his story was intended to be self contained from the first game. To expand what I mean, Edgeworth, the protagonist with the most personality of all the playable characters didn't do any growing in Ace Attorney Investigations; and while I've only got hearsay for AAI2, my understanding is that he remained status-quo.

There's nothing inherently wrong with re-using characters. Franny got repaired in her returning roles. Mia could've been epic in GS3. (Wasn't but that's a different problem.) Phoenix, by extension could do well as the head of Wright Anything. We'll just have to wait and see. But it doesn't skate around how heavy Phoenix is as a character and what his backstory limits what can be told as a story and who they felt needed to return with him.

@PokerJoker811

I think what they should do is maybe use Maya a hook for the next game, as Phoenix's occupation status was from GS4 - GS5. Build her up a bit in the final case or something in GS5, but leave her hanging only to be resolved in GS6.

@Lusankya

The perceived difference with Trials and Tribulations and Dual Destinies is Bratsworth and Franny had 1 day trials. Effectively a half case each and no more than Von Karma in the first game. Then you have Edgy running around as Defense, which augmented his role, but didn't take prosecuting time away from Godot.

For GS5, narratively, Edgeworth is a heavy character, so I don't see him getting away with 'only' a one day trial. I also don't see Edgeworth playing defense attorney, especially since Wright Anything has 3 Lawyers running around and it really looks like Athena might be playable at some point. So with Edgeworth alone I see 'surprise' prosecutor time being eaten up. But there's Klavier in there too! I didn't like Franny in GS2, but they fixed her in Ace Attorney Investigations, so maybe Klavier, who was mediocre in GS4, might get some proper development in GS5. He's already got half a case confirmed, but he's treated as a major character, which again makes me think he's got more than GS5-3 Day 1.

So yes, on the surface we've got the same number of prosecutors as GS3. But in practice I think this is a different story.

You do however make a good point about the GS3 poster. But I think Bolt explains my feelings on the situation better than I could.

Bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump - bump

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:00 pm

Lusankya

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Posts: 1047

Wooster wrote:

@Lusankya

The perceived difference with Trials and Tribulations and Dual Destinies is Bratsworth and Franny had 1 day trials. Effectively a half case each and no more than Von Karma in the first game. Then you have Edgy running around as Defense, which augmented his role, but didn't take prosecuting time away from Godot.

For GS5, narratively, Edgeworth is a heavy character, so I don't see him getting away with 'only' a one day trial. I also don't see Edgeworth playing defense attorney, especially since Wright Anything has 3 Lawyers running around and it really looks like Athena might be playable at some point. So with Edgeworth alone I see 'surprise' prosecutor time being eaten up. But there's Klavier in there too! I didn't like Franny in GS2, but they fixed her in Ace Attorney Investigations, so maybe Klavier, who was mediocre in GS4, might get some proper development in GS5. He's already got half a case confirmed, but he's treated as a major character, which again makes me think he's got more than GS5-3 Day 1.

So yes, on the surface we've got the same number of prosecutors as GS3. But in practice I think this is a different story.

The thing is that we don't have enough information as of yet.

Payne -> Basically 99.9999% sure he just gets the whole case 1 as usual.
Simon -> Most likely the whole case 2 and of course more, because the promotional material outright tells us that he is the main antagonist (not necessarily an evil person, though). He is differently introduced and treated than e.g. Lang was during the AAI pre-release phase.
Klavier -> Mock trial in case 3, but we don't know much about it. There isn't even a judge depicted on the screenshots, so maybe it's part of the investigation? Simon could easily get all real trial parts in this case.
Edgeworth -> All we know is that he appears on the prosectur's side of the court. We don't know when or for how long, but it could be for half a case like Franziska did in 3-5.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:08 pm

ekree

100% whole grain, now with added fiber!

Gender: Male

Location: America

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:37 pm

Posts: 110

Lusankya wrote:

I think I already said it several times, but you all seem to have forgotten about Trials & Tribulations.

So T&T is widely regarded as the best or at least one of the best AA game(s) in the series. No one complained about the 4 prosecutors in T&T or about the T&T poster where we see 6 major returning characters and only 1 major new character (and overall we had a huge number of cameos). But for some reason many are complaining about the 4 prosecutors in DD and about the number of major returning characters.

Doesn't make any sense at all.

It's impossible for Capcom/for the writer to satisfy every fan. On the one hand many fans cry for the return of Maya on the other hand we have fans who detest all returning characters. Lose - lose situation.

You make a good point about the prosecutors, but the thing about T&T is it was still a part of the "original" trilogy where the returning characters were still the stars. People were expecting them to return, you know? Now that AJ and DD have brought in a fresh batch of characters in need of development, I think it's natural to worry that Capcom will try to shoehorn too many old people in (and after the backlash AJ received, who can blame them?) and take the spotlight from the actual main characters. Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that. :grossburg:

Not trying to sound nitpicky or unpleasable here; I'm still gonna play the crap out of this game whether there are a bunch of cameos or not. Like you said the information just isn't there yet, but it should be once it comes out in Japan in...less than a month. Whoa. :udgy:

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:15 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Lots of great answers.

I didn't know people were so skeptical of Simon. If they explain why a criminal has to be a prosecutor in a trial, then they've got an interesting start, at least. I'm just concerned about his "psychological manipulation" thingy he has going on. What does that even MEAN? Are we talking about pressuring nervous defendants, something that would be plausible, or are we talking about persuading attorneys to give up? Manipulation is a vague term indeed.

And you just know he's actually a good guy.

Also, about recurring characters - While I naturally believe this should be a game able to stand on its own without overusing old characters, I also think having too few cameos might end up hurting it. Not even/barely mentioning Phoenix's friends in Apollo Justice was something that left me confused. And it's not like they'll bother giving Pearl a giant role.

By the way, do we actually know how many cases there are? One would assume there'll be five, like it usually is, but do we know anything for sure? As people have pointed out, we've got plenty of prosecutors to spare. Maybe they'll team up too, and name themselves after something in the Steel Samurai.

Calling it now.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:40 pm

Lusankya

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Posts: 1047

ekree wrote:

You make a good point about the prosecutors, but the thing about T&T is it was still a part of the "original" trilogy where the returning characters were still the stars. People were expecting them to return, you know?

So people weren't expecting Phoenix, Apollo, Trucy and/or Klavier to return? All four are major characters in AA4, so at least I expected them to be back for AA5. :yuusaku:

I only didn't expect Egeworth and Pearl to be back. I am still happy, though. For Edgeworth I think that he will be more of an important "background" character, now that he is the chief prosecutor. He is in a powerful position, but I don't expect him to appear in the everyday business.
I don't know what I should expect of Pearly, but for her and Miles it should be easy to explain why they appear now and not earlier (durign AA4).

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:00 pm

ekree

100% whole grain, now with added fiber!

Gender: Male

Location: America

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:37 pm

Posts: 110

I was expecting them actually. You see, I would have been pretty upset if those four didn't show up because this game is obviously meant as a continuation of AJ. I was mostly talking about Edgeworth, Pearl, and Maya (Who is all but confirmed by this point).

And yeah, I can see Edgey having a more distant advisory kind of role like Phoenix in the second and third cases of AJ. That would fit him pretty well.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:08 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

ekree wrote:

I was expecting them actually. You see, I would have been pretty upset if those four didn't show up because this game is obviously meant as a continuation of AJ. I was mostly talking about Edgeworth, Pearl, and Maya (Who is all but confirmed by this point).

And yeah, I can see Edgey having a more distant advisory kind of role like Phoenix in the second and third cases of AJ. That would fit him pretty well.

And the mental image of Edgeworth being the Emperor Palpatine of law is stuck in my head forever.

Phoenix: Your faith in the evidence is your weakness.

Edgeworth: Your faith in your perky teenage assistants is yours.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:03 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Wooster wrote:

There's nothing inherently wrong with re-using characters. Franny got repaired in her returning roles. Mia could've been epic in GS3. (Wasn't but that's a different problem.) Phoenix, by extension could do well as the head of Wright Anything. We'll just have to wait and see. But it doesn't skate around how heavy Phoenix is as a character and what his backstory limits what can be told as a story and who they felt needed to return with him.

There's certainly a limit to using recurring characters to the point that the franchise falls apart. Case in point: Final Fantasy VII.

As I mentioned above, this game appears to be two stories in one, featuring two recurring protagonists. I can't see this game as an extension of Phoenix's trilogy because DD has lost the focus on a primary character. It's a completely different situation from either T&T or AAI, which were especially protagonist-centric. It's like comparing a book to a book collection... sort of. It doesn't make a good comparison.

Apollo definitely has more room to roam with than Phoenix, which is why I hope the series leads toward a gradual shift in protagonist attention. This game appears to be a good stepping stone along the way.

And I wouldn't worry about the AAI team in this case. What made AAI and GK2 less stellar than the original trilogy WASN'T the returning characters. But the new characters in no way made them less than satisfactory anyway.

Thane wrote:

I didn't know people were so skeptical of Simon. If they explain why a criminal has to be a prosecutor in a trial, then they've got an interesting start, at least. I'm just concerned about his "psychological manipulation" thingy he has going on. What does that even MEAN? Are we talking about pressuring nervous defendants, something that would be plausible, or are we talking about persuading attorneys to give up? Manipulation is a vague term indeed.

And you just know he's actually a good guy.

Manipulation is intentionally vague. He does both of your examples, frightening Yumemi upon first glance and frightening Apollo upon first command.

But I still seem him as an ill-tempered bear. He's fuzzy in some way, despite his ferocious manner. And Fulbright might as well see him as a teddy bear. ~~oh god what did i just imagine~~

Quote:

By the way, do we actually know how many cases there are? One would assume there'll be five, like it usually is, but do we know anything for sure? As people have pointed out, we've got plenty of prosecutors to spare. Maybe they'll team up too, and name themselves after something in the Steel Samurai.

Calling it now.

It's not confirmed, but there most likely are 5. They've shown the first three cases for the game, so I expect that there's more than just one more case to not be revealed. Even during GS4's promotions, they only revealed parts of the first two cases and left the last two to be played blind.

...So, who's the Pink Princess?

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:23 am

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Thane wrote:

I didn't know people were so skeptical of Simon. If they explain why a criminal has to be a prosecutor in a trial, then they've got an interesting start, at least. I'm just concerned about his "psychological manipulation" thingy he has going on. What does that even MEAN? Are we talking about pressuring nervous defendants, something that would be plausible, or are we talking about persuading attorneys to give up? Manipulation is a vague term indeed.

And you just know he's actually a good guy.

Manipulation is intentionally vague. He does both of your examples, frightening Yumemi upon first glance and frightening Apollo upon first command.

But I still seem him as an ill-tempered bear. He's fuzzy in some way, despite his ferocious manner. And Fulbright might as well see him as a teddy bear. ~~oh god what did i just imagine~~

Quote:

By the way, do we actually know how many cases there are? One would assume there'll be five, like it usually is, but do we know anything for sure? As people have pointed out, we've got plenty of prosecutors to spare. Maybe they'll team up too, and name themselves after something in the Steel Samurai.

Calling it now.

It's not confirmed, but there most likely are 5. They've shown the first three cases for the game, so I expect that there's more than just one more case to not be revealed. Even during GS4's promotions, they only revealed parts of the first two cases and left the last two to be played blind.

...So, who's the Pink Princess?

That's good. Pressuring people who are in a pinch is a lot more subtle and plausible than what I had previously imagined. I still see him as someone who quotes stuff from books, but maybe we got enough wisdom from Godot.

I just know Simon is a good guy. It'll probably end with him and Fullbright becoming bestest friends foreverest and taking a beer together - and the fans would take care of the rest.

I know quality is more important than quantity, but with so many characters to go around, a sixth case would give everyone more time to shine.

Spoiler alert: Oldbag. She has become an ace prosecutor all for the sake of Edgeworth. one of her special abilities is to confuse her enemies with pointless drivel. Criminals have never been more terrified.

I also wonder if Edgeworth will pull an Adrian and constantly shatter his glasses only to conjure up new ones out of thin air.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:40 pm

GyakutenGodot

Godot's the Man

Gender: None specified

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:36 pm

Posts: 88

A lot of good comments and theories in this thread. The only thing I want to add, is it is a near guarantee that the last case, weather it be case 5 or 6, will be split. You'll probably get the opportunity to play as both Apollo, and Phoenix each going up against Klavier and Edgeworth respectively, in either different days of the same case or in seemingly unrelated cases that come together at the last second. Now the main question is, what happens with Simon. I somehow see him being the defendant of the last case either that or prosecuting it instead of either Klavier or Edgeworth.

The one thing you guys didnt take into account however is the infamous obligatory Ace Attorney flashback case. The only games that didnt have this were GS1 and GS2. In GS1 obviously there were references to DL-6, and in GS2 there was no old case all together. 3-1, 3-4, part of 4-4, GK-4, and GK2-3 are all flashback cases. I doubt they'll be leaving one out in this game. Further I doubt they'll be doing it in the style of 4-4 where you play parts in the present, then parts in the past, then back to the present. I see the flashback case as being a case by itself. Additionally, its nearly a given that the flashback case will be the case where Simon got sent to jail. Will he be prosecuting, or the defendant that the question. Something tells me prosecuting, since if they do go with 5 cases, as will most probably be the case, that leaves him prosecuting case 2, possibly 3, and 4 at the least.
I dont know guys, this game seems pretty jam packed to me. While I highly doubt it, I really hope they do have 6 cases. This will give all the charterers a lot more time to shine and develop, without feeling crammed and forced.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

GyakutenGodot wrote:

A lot of good comments and theories in this thread. The only thing I want to add, is it is a near guarantee that the last case, weather it be case 5 or 6, will be split. You'll probably get the opportunity to play as both Apollo, and Phoenix each going up against Klavier and Edgeworth respectively, in either different days of the same case or in seemingly unrelated cases that come together at the last second. Now the main question is, what happens with Simon. I somehow see him being the defendant of the last case either that or prosecuting it instead of either Klavier or Edgeworth.

The one thing you guys didnt take into account however is the infamous obligatory Ace Attorney flashback case. The only games that didnt have this were GS1 and GS2. In GS1 obviously there were references to DL-6, and in GS2 there was no old case all together. 3-1, 3-4, part of 4-4, GK-4, and GK2-3 are all flashback cases. I doubt they'll be leaving one out in this game. Further I doubt they'll be doing it in the style of 4-4 where you play parts in the present, then parts in the past, then back to the present. I see the flashback case as being a case by itself. Additionally, its nearly a given that the flashback case will be the case where Simon got sent to jail. Will he be prosecuting, or the defendant that the question. Something tells me prosecuting, since if they do go with 5 cases, as will most probably be the case, that leaves him prosecuting case 2, possibly 3, and 4 at the least.
I dont know guys, this game seems pretty jam packed to me. While I highly doubt it, I really hope they do have 6 cases. This will give all the charterers a lot more time to shine and develop, without feeling crammed and forced.

I agree. There are so many characters in this game already (granted we don't know to what extent some of them will be involved, like Pearl for instance) and having a flashback case would just give all these characters even less time to shine.

The old characters have to validate being there or risk being accused of fan service; on the other hand, the new ones have to make lasting impressions or risk getting outshone by the old cast.

They say it'll take the average player 25-30 hours to complete, so it certainly sounds possible to get a sixth case, as long as it's not packed too full with cutscenes (I'm not expert on anime but they looked rather well done didn't they?).

And while I know quality is more important than quantity, it wouldn't hurt to give some characters extra room for development, like litte Polly for instance.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:07 am

Emiko Nabile Gale

Ace Sidekick!

Gender: Female

Location: Kurain Village

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:00 am

Posts: 2426

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

My fanfictions~

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:05 am

ekree

100% whole grain, now with added fiber!

Gender: Male

Location: America

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:37 pm

Posts: 110

Thane wrote:

I also wonder if Edgeworth will pull an Adrian and constantly shatter his glasses only to conjure up new ones out of thin air.

Also, he could totally pull a Lang and put his glasses on just to take them off dramatically when he objects. Endless possibilities!

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:58 am

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Emiko Gale wrote:

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

I'm not excited about her at all, and while I agree that it's too early to hate her, I can't stand her being 18 and both an attorney and an analytical psychologist. And her personality so far has been dangerously close to that of Kay's, Maya's and Trucy's, and she's just as adorable. Oh, and did I mention she's EIGHTEEN MOTHERTRUCKING YEARS OLD?!

It doesn't make sense and it bothers me to no end. Just like how Franziska became a prosecutor at 13 - it doesn't make sense, and she was an awful prosecutor. She was never really a threat in court, and we're supposed to believe she was undefeated? She just came off as stupid.

Last edited by Thane on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:58 am

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

Thane wrote:

Emiko Gale wrote:

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

- managed to quote instead of edit. I hate mornings sometimes.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:02 am

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

Thane wrote:

Emiko Gale wrote:

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

I'm not excited about her at all, and while I agree that it's too early to hate her, I can't stand her being 18 and both an attorney and an analytical psychologist. And her personality so far has been dangerously close to that of Kay's, Maya's and Trucy's, and she's just as adorable. Oh, and did I mention she's EIGHTEEN MOTHERTRUCKING YEARS OLD?!

18 years old? Seriously? With her boobs - or maybe it's the graphics - I figured she'd be at least 20 years old. And I agree with you, Thane, another prodigy of sorts? Come on, Capcom, there are people who are prodigies in the world but one right after another? How many prodigies does the GS-verse have now?

I admit, I wasn't all that up for Kokone in the first place. Part of it was because she was female - why do we need a damn female sidekick all the time? For another, the screenshots I had seen of her showed her all happy and smiling, very Maya-Trucy-Kay-Ema-like, so already a bad point with me.
Her being an attorney, that was cool!
But making her 18 years old? Oh man... I didn't have much hope for her, so now she's kinda lost me. Unless they suddenly turn around and prove that she is a very serious character. Although Edgeworth was a serious character, until we got to control him and then he became somewhat of an idiot... why do the controllable characters have to be idiots?

C-A

PS: Thane, I love your signature!

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:13 am

Emiko Nabile Gale

Ace Sidekick!

Gender: Female

Location: Kurain Village

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:00 am

Posts: 2426

Um...Actually, I'm 18 and I think my chest may be bigger than hers.

My fanfictions~

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:15 am

Lusankya

Gender: Male

Location: Germany

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:04 pm

Posts: 1047

Yeah, boobs aren't a very good indicator of age. There are 14-year-olds with bigger chests.

Anyway, usually all people in Japanese fiction are way too young for all the experience and abilities they have. So I don't get why you're complaining now?

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:36 pm

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

Lusankya wrote:

Anyway, usually all people in Japanese fiction are way too young for all the experience and abilities they have. So I don't get why you're complaining now?

Because there are franchises where the abilities are 'believable'.

And perhaps I was mistaken, but maybe it was simply Kokone's jacket that made her boobs look bigger than they are.

C-A

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:43 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

CatMuto wrote:

Thane wrote:

Emiko Gale wrote:

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

I'm not excited about her at all, and while I agree that it's too early to hate her, I can't stand her being 18 and both an attorney and an analytical psychologist. And her personality so far has been dangerously close to that of Kay's, Maya's and Trucy's, and she's just as adorable. Oh, and did I mention she's EIGHTEEN MOTHERTRUCKING YEARS OLD?!

18 years old? Seriously? With her boobs - or maybe it's the graphics - I figured she'd be at least 20 years old. And I agree with you, Thane, another prodigy of sorts? Come on, Capcom, there are people who are prodigies in the world but one right after another? How many prodigies does the GS-verse have now?

I admit, I wasn't all that up for Kokone in the first place. Part of it was because she was female - why do we need a damn female sidekick all the time? For another, the screenshots I had seen of her showed her all happy and smiling, very Maya-Trucy-Kay-Ema-like, so already a bad point with me.
Her being an attorney, that was cool!
But making her 18 years old? Oh man... I didn't have much hope for her, so now she's kinda lost me. Unless they suddenly turn around and prove that she is a very serious character. Although Edgeworth was a serious character, until we got to control him and then he became somewhat of an idiot... why do the controllable characters have to be idiots?

C-A

PS: Thane, I love your signature!

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this. And she's already hogging an entire case for herself - not good considering Apollo needs some screen time.

I hope I'll get pleasantly surprised, I really do. I'm not trying to be negative, but she just rubs me the wrong way, and she's a bit too similar (so far, mind you) to the other assistants.

Also, thanks! I love Team Four Star, although I love Yugioh abridged and Littlekuriboh even more

And Lusankya, I've never been a fan of super young people in the Ace Attorney series, or in any media, really. It even annoyed me in Avatar even if they acted more like their age there than they do in anime (Ash is 10? Better send him off on a journey around the world to fight against monsters who breathe fire).

There are a lot of things they seem to love in Japan that I can't stand. The youth obsession is one of them. I wanted to write a list of things that I keep seeing in my limited experience with anime and manga, but I feel that might not be appreciated here.

I really do prefer it when the Ace Attorney is more believable. I never did like the spirit channelings, for instance. Having someone who is 18, obviously supposed to be gorgeous, an analytical psychologist AND attorney at the same time ruins the credibility a bit.

So yeah, that's why it bothers me. It never stopped bothering me.

Oh, and I'm glad Athena's breasts aren't bigger at least. I'm sort of surprised by the amount of women in the series who actually dress properly, too...I mean, considering how sexist the video game industry actually is.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:53 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

CatMuto wrote:

Lusankya wrote:

Anyway, usually all people in Japanese fiction are way too young for all the experience and abilities they have. So I don't get why you're complaining now?

Because there are franchises where the abilities are 'believable'.

And Ace Attorney is not one of them. It's always been like a shonen anime series, and now with GS5, the dev team is adding in colored verbal slash animations. If that's not shonen, then I don't know what is. It's not like the material in-game is any more vulgar than in many shonen manga anyway, so it's not qualified for seinen.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:12 pm

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

CatMuto wrote:

Because there are franchises where the abilities are 'believable'.

And Ace Attorney is not one of them. It's always been like a shonen anime series, and now with GS5, the dev team is adding in colored verbal slash animations. If that's not shonen, then I don't know what is. It's not like the material in-game is any more vulgar than in many shonen manga anyway, so it's not qualified for seinen.

...how is GS like a Shonen Anime? Sure there are some women with big breasts and some have nice cleavages. But the rest of it isn't very shonen-ish, like with large yelling at other men and punching them at the drop of a hat. Yeah, people got punched in GS (not everybody who deserved it, sadly) but they generally punched someone over a good reason. ('cept Redd White to Phoenix, but I think he slapped him rather than punched him)

Quote:

I wanted to write a list of things that I keep seeing in my limited experience with anime and manga, but I feel that might not be appreciated here.

Go ahead and make a topic of it!
I made a list of the typical Shoujo Manga clichés that I kept stumbling over and that just irk me to hell and gone, simply because they are so dumb, why would anyone want to read that same crap over and over?

C-A

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:28 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

CatMuto wrote:

Quote:

I wanted to write a list of things that I keep seeing in my limited experience with anime and manga, but I feel that might not be appreciated here.

Go ahead and make a topic of it!
I made a list of the typical Shoujo Manga clichés that I kept stumbling over and that just irk me to hell and gone, simply because they are so dumb, why would anyone want to read that same crap over and over?

C-A

How about a compromise: I'll make it here since you asked, but I also don't want to dedicate an entire thread to pointing out things that bother me/that are frequent in Japanese media on a forum I'm relatively new to. I don't want people roasting my rump here just yet.

I should explain that this is a list of things I pick up on, as someone who has very little contact with Japanese media (it usually comes in the form of mainstream Nintendo games). I'm not trying to be racist or whiny - it's just the things that I see all the time.

So, here I go.

Angsty pretty-boys
Boobs and fan service
Weird powers that are rarely explained where they come from even though they're hereditary
Giant weapons
Weird clothes and hair (duh?)
Swooning/desperate girls (most of them are supposedly drop-dead gorgeous and have never kissed someone - and they've been in love with either the nerd/angsty pretty-boy since they were like five, and their feelings just came out of nowhere. In simpler terms: objectification)
Boobs and fan service
OVER THE TOP REACTIONS!!!!!111ONEONE
Geniuses
Either no romance, awkward romance or 'I'd kill my best friend for you, random hot almost-stranger who treats me like crap'
Copious amounts of free time (teenagers don't seem to go to school that often in Japan)
Pervert jokes
Youth obsession to the maximum extreme
Did I mention boobs and fan service?

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:25 pm

beterbomen

Avatar out for lunch.

Gender: Male

Location: Nowhere near you.

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 9:55 pm

Posts: 234

CatMuto wrote:

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

CatMuto wrote:

Because there are franchises where the abilities are 'believable'.

And Ace Attorney is not one of them. It's always been like a shonen anime series, and now with GS5, the dev team is adding in colored verbal slash animations. If that's not shonen, then I don't know what is. It's not like the material in-game is any more vulgar than in many shonen manga anyway, so it's not qualified for seinen.

...how is GS like a Shonen Anime? Sure there are some women with big breasts and some have nice cleavages. But the rest of it isn't very shonen-ish, like with large yelling at other men and punching them at the drop of a hat. Yeah, people got punched in GS (not everybody who deserved it, sadly) but they generally punched someone over a good reason. ('cept Redd White to Phoenix, but I think he slapped him rather than punched him).

C-A

You haven't watched much Anime, have you? Because I feel you're jumping to conclusions a little bit.
Speaking as someone who enjoys a good anime from time to time, I can tell you that it's not all just about people yelling at each other and punching others without any reason. That certainly happens, but it always happens with a purpose (at least, in the Anime I watch. I'm certain there are anime out there that your reasoning will apply to, but that's just an example of that anime's bad writing. The defence calls Theodore Sturgeon to testify on that one).

But let's examine your claim that AA doesn't meet those rather shallow requirements.
Firstly, the claim that AA doesn't have the "large yelling at other men"... I think we can all agree that AA in fact does have a rather large amount of yelling going on.

And then there is your claim that Shounen Anime seems to revolve around punching people at the drop of a hat. If we accept that as fact, then yeah, AA isn't like that at all. But let's think about what is actually meant with "Punching" here. A punch in anime, especially one that is thrown around during conversation, isn't so much an expression of physical violence as one of aggression, or, in some cases, strong feelings.
If we think of an Anime Punch like that, a different interpretation of one comes to mind for AA...

Spoiler:

Serve the Story - that's one of my rules.
--------------
That wasn't an objection, honest! I was just pointing someone to the bus stop!

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:56 pm

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

I have watched a lot of anime, actually. I admit, though, not much Shonen stuff - I think the only one I watched was Dragonball Z and I mostly paid attention at the Buu Saga because Teen!Gohan was hot.

As for AA's yelling, I was referring to stuff similar to Dragonball, where majority of the yelling was "RAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRRRRRGH! *sudden blonde dye job*" and similar. Not the OBJECTION yells - and I am not counting the breakdowns.

C-A

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:23 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

CatMuto wrote:

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

CatMuto wrote:

Because there are franchises where the abilities are 'believable'.

And Ace Attorney is not one of them. It's always been like a shonen anime series, and now with GS5, the dev team is adding in colored verbal slash animations. If that's not shonen, then I don't know what is. It's not like the material in-game is any more vulgar than in many shonen manga anyway, so it's not qualified for seinen.

...how is GS like a Shonen Anime? Sure there are some women with big breasts and some have nice cleavages. But the rest of it isn't very shonen-ish, like with large yelling at other men and punching them at the drop of a hat. Yeah, people got punched in GS (not everybody who deserved it, sadly) but they generally punched someone over a good reason. ('cept Redd White to Phoenix, but I think he slapped him rather than punched him)

It's unique from most shonen because for one, it's about court cases, and for another, the protagonist is generally older than others of shonen series; nonetheless, the game is designed toward a demographic of young teens. There doesn't need to be plenty of physical violence in a shonen; but the more ferocious or outrageous the battle, the better. Naturally, there are rather fierce battles here: court battles. Every odd antic normally barred in a real-life court has an example of it. And several times throughout the series, their "words" are referred to as "weapons". So in essence, attorneys do exchange blows - and insults alike - just as any other shonen warriors do.

Besides, the main characters have superpowers. Spirit channeling, hypersensitive tell-spotting, ultrasonic hearing, to name a few. It's a slice-of-life genre that plays with certain shonen archetypes, but also aims to parody everything it touches, including itself. Then again, that is life. :-p

It took me a while to figure it out, actually. This game doesn't seem like a shonen at first glance, but after playing through it several times, I'm convinced... as an alternative interpretation.

Actually, I take it back that seinen has to be vulgar to be called as such. It just has to be set apart from shonen by breaking the boundaries of what is classified as "shonen". So, a parody of a shonen can be seinen too.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:38 am

Thelema

Gender: Female

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 am

Posts: 888

Apollo was the biggest mistake of the Ace Attorney series. I know people say "Phoenix had his history", "We're full of Phoenix", "Phoenix history is over" and bla bla bla. Well, okay. But Apollo is just a red-suited 22-year-old version of Phoenix. Almost the same personality, same manners and behavior. So if you want a new character in the first place, then why the hell ask for more of the same? I want a fresh series too, but for that we need FRESH characters.

The only difference between Apollo and Phoenix is that Apollo seems to be a shonen anime superhero. "You got the power..." "The power to perceive..." "Only you...". C'mon, guys. While Phoenix depended on Maya's power and her magatama, Apollo is a fantastic superhero with the genetic capacity to "perceive". Nothing far-fetched, uh?

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:06 am

Thelema

Gender: Female

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:58 am

Posts: 888

Thane wrote:

Emiko Gale wrote:

I'm afraid I might grow bitter towards Athena...I know it's too early for me to dislike her but I got a bad feeling that once I play the game there's going to be at least something about her that I'll dislike.

I'm not excited about her at all, and while I agree that it's too early to hate her, I can't stand her being 18 and both an attorney and an analytical psychologist. And her personality so far has been dangerously close to that of Kay's, Maya's and Trucy's, and she's just as adorable. Oh, and did I mention she's EIGHTEEN MOTHERTRUCKING YEARS OLD?!

It doesn't make sense and it bothers me to no end. Just like how Franziska became a prosecutor at 13 - it doesn't make sense, and she was an awful prosecutor. She was never really a threat in court, and we're supposed to believe she was undefeated? She just came off as stupid.

While I agree that it's stupid for someone to be a prosecutor at the age of 13, Franziska WAS a threat in court. As far as I remember, she could end the trial just in the beginning of "Reunion, and Turnabout" with a guilty verdict - the judge's decision. It was she who allowed the trial to proceed.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:24 am

Whooop

Gender: None specified

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 9:12 am

Posts: 27

dangerousoffender wrote:

Apollo was the biggest mistake of the Ace Attorney series. I know people say "Phoenix had his history", "We're full of Phoenix", "Phoenix history is over" and bla bla bla. Well, okay. But Apollo is just a red-suited 22-year-old version of Phoenix. Almost the same personality, same manners and behavior. So if you want a new character in the first place, then why the hell ask for more of the same? I want a fresh series too, but for that we need FRESH characters.

The only difference between Apollo and Phoenix is that Apollo seems to be a shonen anime superhero. "You got the power..." "The power to perceive..." "Only you...". C'mon, guys. While Phoenix depended on Maya's power and her magatama, Apollo is a fantastic superhero with the genetic capacity to "perceive". Nothing far-fetched, uh?

Apollo and Phoenix ARE different. They are sometimes superficially alike. But different in their own approach. Apollo is a lot more cynical, work-serious, and focused on attacking . Phoenix is a lot more idealistic, open, and more on defending. At least that's my interpretation.

My only concern about Dual Destinies if it will sell well, to make more games. Plus more localisations of certain games.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:16 am

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

dangerousoffender wrote:

Apollo was the biggest mistake of the Ace Attorney series. I know people say "Phoenix had his history", "We're full of Phoenix", "Phoenix history is over" and bla bla bla. Well, okay. But Apollo is just a red-suited 22-year-old version of Phoenix. Almost the same personality, same manners and behavior. So if you want a new character in the first place, then why the hell ask for more of the same? I want a fresh series too, but for that we need FRESH characters.

The only difference between Apollo and Phoenix is that Apollo seems to be a shonen anime superhero. "You got the power..." "The power to perceive..." "Only you...". C'mon, guys. While Phoenix depended on Maya's power and her magatama, Apollo is a fantastic superhero with the genetic capacity to "perceive". Nothing far-fetched, uh?

I agree, that's why I hope they'll flesh out Apollo's character a bit more in Dual Destinies.

I also think it was a mistake for them to include Phoenix in the Apollo Justice game - that hobo could have been anyone else, really. If they had made a new character like that, I think Apollo wouldn't have been so overshadowed all the time. I suppose the game could've had more interesting cases, too.

Oh well, it's time to look ahead!

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:49 am

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

Quote:

Apollo was the biggest mistake of the Ace Attorney series. I know people say "Phoenix had his history", "We're full of Phoenix", "Phoenix history is over" and bla bla bla. Well, okay. But Apollo is just a red-suited 22-year-old version of Phoenix. Almost the same personality, same manners and behavior. So if you want a new character in the first place, then why the hell ask for more of the same? I want a fresh series too, but for that we need FRESH characters.

As whoop said, Apollo is different from Phoenix, although it can be easy to miss.
Apollo is, similar to Edgeworth, more focused on finding the truth of the case and not to get his client off. He doesn't trust his clients blindly, the way Phoenix did - even post 2-4 at times. Overall, they are alike but only because the controlled character in GS games has to be an idiot who doesn't get things right away for the sake of Gameplay Segregation.

Quote:

The only difference between Apollo and Phoenix is that Apollo seems to be a shonen anime superhero. "You got the power..." "The power to perceive..." "Only you...". C'mon, guys. While Phoenix depended on Maya's power and her magatama, Apollo is a fantastic superhero with the genetic capacity to "perceive". Nothing far-fetched, uh?

That's another thing. Apollo depended on himself.
I know some people would say that Phoenix was a pussy because he 'depended on a woman' instead of using his own head. And now that I think about it, Yeah, Phoenix did depend a lot on ~~Maya~~ Mia. Whenever he didn't know any better, he was hoping Maya would conveniently have Mia channeled. In 1-4, when Maya was incapable of channeling Mia, Mia herself went into Phoenix' head and basically told him the answer.
Same thing happened in 1-5, although I was really looking forward to some thinking on Phoenix' side, seeing as how it was always said that the Fey sisters were not in that case.

C-A

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:40 pm

Thane

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm

Posts: 970

CatMuto wrote:

Quote:

The only difference between Apollo and Phoenix is that Apollo seems to be a shonen anime superhero. "You got the power..." "The power to perceive..." "Only you...". C'mon, guys. While Phoenix depended on Maya's power and her magatama, Apollo is a fantastic superhero with the genetic capacity to "perceive". Nothing far-fetched, uh?

That's another thing. Apollo depended on himself.
I know some people would say that Phoenix was a pussy because he 'depended on a woman' instead of using his own head. And now that I think about it, Yeah, Phoenix did depend a lot on ~~Maya~~ Mia. Whenever he didn't know any better, he was hoping Maya would conveniently have Mia channeled. In 1-4, when Maya was incapable of channeling Mia, Mia herself went into Phoenix' head and basically told him the answer.
Same thing happened in 1-5, although I was really looking forward to some thinking on Phoenix' side, seeing as how it was always said that the Fey sisters were not in that case.

C-A

Phoenix never struck me as an idiot who couldn't do anything by himself, not by a long shot. He had help, sure, but Apollo got a lot of help from Klavier, too.

Re: Dual Destinies Concerns

Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:53 pm

CatMuto

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Posts: 9918

Thane wrote:

Phoenix never struck me as an idiot who couldn't do anything by himself, not by a long shot. He had help, sure, but Apollo got a lot of help from Klavier, too.

Phoenix still relied heavily on Maya - and her ability to channel Mia. Beginning of 1-4, remember, where they are about to go to court? Phoenix seems to realize he never managed to finish one of his cases before without having Mia appear at some point and tell him where to go or what to do.
And when he hears that Maya can't channel at that moment, he's a pretty big dick about it...

C-A