GS7 Ideas : Courthouse Steps

Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:05 am

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Moddragon22 wrote:

SuperAj3 wrote:

But I can't remember if he was a prosecutor at the time or not.

He was.

Really? Blackquill was locked up with 21 years, and that was the year after Phoenix was disbarred, which mean he would have been 18 when Mia died. I guess it's possible to have them meet before that since teenage genius are nothing new to the series, but we don't know for sure.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:46 pm

MBr

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I'll have you know that Blackquill and Maya are the same age

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm

MBr

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My idea: no Yamazaki

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:55 pm

SuperAj3

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He's done with AA I think.
He didn't want to do GS6 Eshiro had to convince him XD

Who would write GS7? If there were one, Takumi would be done with DGS by then...

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:46 am

Southern Corn

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Fuse was co director of GS6. Maybe he could fully direct 7.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:45 am

SuperAj3

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Yeah but who'll write it? He's the main artist, so they'd need someone to lead the writing of the game.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:42 am

Ash

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Not sure if they all still work at Capcom, but there are at least three persons (Nakamura, Fukuda and other Fuse) who have each worked as writers on at least two different Ace Attorney titles, so they could easily lead a writing team like usual (that's more experience than Yamazaki had before he had to lead a whole new game as both writer and director), and there's always the option of going external...

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:41 am

Bolt Storm

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Honestly, at this point I'd like a soft reboot story-wise and a mostly fresh staff. Have past characters in secondary or minor roles but give the focus on a new cast.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:27 pm

linkenski

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Capcom has been very keen on appealing to the western market with their legacy franchises lately. It's probably about time that they hand off this series to some screenwriters and make the mysteries less zany and more grounded.

Also, let go of the anime artstyle?

Kidding aside, this series is like any Marvel or DC comics in that it has the potential to take on a multitude of different spins and iterations across various artists, so I hope one day they'll just surprise you with a new Ace Attorney that has a new staff and has a bold premise that doesn't reek of fanservice, derived or retrodden ideas. I just don't read nearly enough japanese novels or manga to know where the inspirations could come from.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:32 pm

Southern Corn

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I think 6-4 and 6-2 were rather grounded honestly. They weren't zany and quite interesting imo.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:40 pm

Thunder84

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Southern Corn wrote:

I think 6-4 and 6-2 were rather grounded honestly. They weren't zany and quite interesting imo.

Idk if I would call them grounded, especially 6-4. I wouldn't call Uendo "grounded" by any means.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:41 pm

Southern Corn

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The case itself was pretty simplistic though.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Many of the cases in the series have been pretty simplistic, straightforward, grounded, etc. They just have a little more absurdity thrown in as well as the series has developed.

Honestly, I don't see anything bad in particular about raising absurdity levels. AA has always had roots in being silly from the very beginning. There's a good reason why this series didn't take off to be another L.A. Noire. What I see of writers beyond copying Takumi's style is potential to take the series to new grounds. Detective Conan wouldn't have lasted nearly so long as it has if it always tried to stick to the nitty gritty side of crime solving.

I do agree that we should get a soft reboot of the cast, but the original characters still deserve to hold important roles here and there. They don't have to show, but their presence should be accounted for.

Unless the soft reboot involves another timeskip for no particular reason like in AJ, just so we can forget the current cast and inevitably have another blank that isn't explained. I suppose I'd be okay with retconning AJ's timeskip if it means the alternative is more fluid development of the old cast mingled with the new.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Tue May 23, 2017 7:45 pm

linkenski

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They should stick to Mr. Kojima's philosophy here regarding the Snake vs Raiden switch in MGS2 which was partially true to AA4 and 5 but they didn't stick enough to it in 5 IMO;
"The only way to continue developing Snake as a character is to let the player view him from the outside. He's supposed to be a legend, he's someone you hear about not someone you are" or something like that.

The sense of staleness to Phoenix in AA5 and 6 come in hard whenever you're in court where he's actually challenged, but there always seems to be a bit of an inconsistency because he's acting like he used to back in AA123 whenever he loses an argument and because everyone keeps referring to him as a legend -- "the king of bluffing" or whatever. It's one of many show don't tell issues. It's like Dark Age of Law. Is the law really going through a significantly worse age of darkness in AA5 as opposed to any of the previous games? Arguably not because we never what that amounts to, and the same problem persists with Nick being this awe-inspiring Defense Legend that the whole world apparently knows about because he basically haven't changed.

Yet, sometimes you see people say they like AA5-Nick the most and I'm pretty sure they're thinking the same thing I am which is how he appears in 5-2 or 5-3 when you're talking to him as one of the other attorneys. That felt like a continuation of who he had become in AA4 but without the secrecy so he really did feel like someone guiding his junior staff to make them become better, and I still think they can do something with that version of Nick we haven't seen yet.

In AA4 Phoenix was a legend in a tragic sense, like some big taboo of the law that nobody ever spoke about anymore, but in AA5 he's returned as a legend everyone looks up to and his opponents are eager to put show they can put down his fame, so it kind of bothers me we have yet to see the writers really find a story where Nick as a Legal-World Hero faces some sort of struggle. I loved the bullshit trailer for AA5 that teased conflicts that ultimately didn't really happen like Nick having to face a crisis of interest within his own firm. It still kinda happens but I think they sort of swept a lot of its potential under the rug with the way Dual Destinies developed its plot.

I think they can make a game where Phoenix feels important without a reset-button, where you either play as Athena or someone new (I think Apollo has already had a story where his actions will impact Nick's character enough) who we will play as, and get into some kind of turmoil that places Nick in a Farewell, My Turnabout kind of situation where he has to make a hard decision and teach us an important lesson he's learned, and all that will happen without us actually playing as Phoenix and it will happen without Phoenix being completely mysterious the entire game. There was also a missed opportunity to grow Athena more naturally by having her attend cases with Phoenix as her co-counsel. He should be able to course-correct both her and Apollo a lot just like in 4-1.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed May 24, 2017 7:44 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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It's clear that Yamazaki's team can write Phoenix well. His attitude and demeanor when he's acting like their boss or mentor leaves some pretty good impressions. But as mentioned above, it's inconsistent with how he seems to act in court - stark contrast between how he's shown in the flashback of 4-4 and how he used to be since the trilogy. They sought a middle ground with him that does work for the most part.

I'd say the way he acts in court is somewhat affected by the fact that he's also the protagonist. Like Edgeworth, despite being of some respectable status in canon who is capable of so much more, once he's put in the player's control, he has to take a step back to ensure the players are keeping up. It's a matter of game difficulty, rather than character portrayal, that takes precedence. In other words, Capcom is playing it safe. (Imo, they often play it too safe too often, but this is a pretty widespread franchise.)

Hence why both gentlemen sometimes act like they don't know what's going on even though the players may know or are already ahead, yet when taken to non-interactive mediums like novels, audio dramas, manga, stage plays, and movies, the connections happen a lot faster and more smoothly. (In the case of the anime, they shoved too much in too little time and created that effect by force. I don't think it worked out that well.)

In other cases, though, it is simply lazy/convenient writing. For the sake of conflict, right?

From what I see, the main problem with setting Athena as the protagonist is that they already revealed so much about her story in AA5 and by AA6, 6-4 is essentially an epilogue to that game. There's not much new to cover on the home turf. So, if they're willing to expand her story in Europe, I can see things taking a new and refreshing turn. There's more cross-culture to explore, and Athena is the ideal character for it. She's young, energetic, and eager to learn. Not to mention, it'd make sense with the localization's explanation for where she went during her childhood. The source version can just pretend her trip to America also included a mixing of European cultures.

I worry a bit more about how they'll take Edgeworth from here, since as one of the fan favorites, he's obligated to show. They did well with the story of AAI2, but I think they were especially rocky in terms of Edgeworth's character development across both AAI games. By the end of the original trilogy, Edgeworth was pretty well established, aside from a few quirks that can be expected to linger. When the AAI games came along, it went from a still pond to a whirlpool.

By the time he shows in AA6, they even have little to do for his role in the game. He's reduced to comic relief just so he can join Phoenix in an investigation that he technically should not be getting involved in, being a Chief Prosecutor from another country. And then they had to insert a "high-profile" case just to make an excuse for him to show up in court again. In hindsight, it doesn't bode well for his future appearances.

tl;dr, make Phoenix like Mia and make Edgeworth like Klavier, so the new cast of characters can really shine.

That being said, if the next game does take place in Europe, I feel it would only be fair that we see Franziska again. That means Phoenix and Edgeworth can act as her whipping boys in absence of Gumshoe. The only true justification for shoehorn.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu May 25, 2017 3:43 pm

Gwen Stacy

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

It's clear that Yamazaki's team can write Phoenix well. His attitude and demeanor when he's acting like their boss or mentor leaves some pretty good impressions. But as mentioned above, it's inconsistent with how he seems to act in court - stark contrast between how he's shown in the flashback of 4-4 and how he used to be since the trilogy. They sought a middle ground with him that does work for the most part.

I'd say the way he acts in court is somewhat affected by the fact that he's also the protagonist. Like Edgeworth, despite being of some respectable status in canon who is capable of so much more, once he's put in the player's control, he has to take a step back to ensure the players are keeping up. It's a matter of game difficulty, rather than character portrayal, that takes precedence. In other words, Capcom is playing it safe. (Imo, they often play it too safe too often, but this is a pretty widespread franchise.)

Hence why both gentlemen sometimes act like they don't know what's going on even though the players may know or are already ahead, yet when taken to non-interactive mediums like novels, audio dramas, manga, stage plays, and movies, the connections happen a lot faster and more smoothly. (In the case of the anime, they shoved too much in too little time and created that effect by force. I don't think it worked out that well.)

In other cases, though, it is simply lazy/convenient writing. For the sake of conflict, right?

From what I see, the main problem with setting Athena as the protagonist is that they already revealed so much about her story in AA5 and by AA6, 6-4 is essentially an epilogue to that game. There's not much new to cover on the home turf. So, if they're willing to expand her story in Europe, I can see things taking a new and refreshing turn. There's more cross-culture to explore, and Athena is the ideal character for it. She's young, energetic, and eager to learn. Not to mention, it'd make sense with the localization's explanation for where she went during her childhood. The source version can just pretend her trip to America also included a mixing of European cultures.

I worry a bit more about how they'll take Edgeworth from here, since as one of the fan favorites, he's obligated to show. They did well with the story of AAI2, but I think they were especially rocky in terms of Edgeworth's character development across both AAI games. By the end of the original trilogy, Edgeworth was pretty well established, aside from a few quirks that can be expected to linger. When the AAI games came along, it went from a still pond to a whirlpool.

By the time he shows in AA6, they even have little to do for his role in the game. He's reduced to comic relief just so he can join Phoenix in an investigation that he technically should not be getting involved in, being a Chief Prosecutor from another country. And then they had to insert a "high-profile" case just to make an excuse for him to show up in court again. In hindsight, it doesn't bode well for his future appearances.

tl;dr, make Phoenix like Mia and make Edgeworth like Klavier, so the new cast of characters can really shine.

That being said, if the next game does take place in Europe, I feel it would only be fair that we see Franziska again. That means Phoenix and Edgeworth can act as her whipping boys in absence of Gumshoe. The only true justification for shoehorn.

I'd agree it definitely seems that capcom is putting Edgeworth's character in the game for no reason when we know his character inside and out

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri May 26, 2017 12:34 pm

linkenski

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I agree that, AA6 sets a bad precedent. As I've said before they've been jumping the shark with AA5 and AA6 by making them SO high-stakes that the finales are both high-profile and of "national importance" kind of cases, and that's too much which is unfortunate because AAI, AAI2 and AA5 and AA6 consistently prove that Yamazaki has a hunger for conspiracy-like cases of grand proportions of epicness, so chances are if he's still at the helm of future games, he'll keep doing that style. I'll see that as a limitation they can work with rather than a hindrance even if it means we're only going "even bigger" from here.

Regarding Edgeworth, the necessity of high-profile cases he imposes since it seems to be a mandate that he HAS to show up out of fan-demand and from people making the games, can work in GS7's favor if they find a good subplot or theme within it. For example, he's chief prosecutor. He may have proven to be worthy of that title, but he's privileged and he can be challenged. His responsibilities are also much bigger, which is a force that can cause a lot of pressure, and considering how fallible humans are there's room for Edgeworth making really big mistakes, and I think that's what I'd like to see from him. Not the cliché where he shows up to prosecute in the finale, or just shows up to say "Hi, Phoenix, didya miss me?" but one where he has an agenda like in AA5, but instead of melodrama and forced behavior to beat the same ol, same ol way where he's like "Logic is teh only way, but the truth is most important!" until his assertions are misproven, this time he'll cause the next failure of epic proportions and has to redeem himself with the help of Phoenix and co.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri May 26, 2017 4:50 pm

Going for Miles

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A small, mischievous part of me wants Yamazaki to get free reins just to see how big he will go. "The future of the solar system depends on us catching this killer!"

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GS7 Ideas

Sat May 27, 2017 3:12 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Actually, Yamazaki is pretty lowkey with mysteries, but probably likes them a bit more "complex" (or convoluted imo, but it's not always a bad thing). That the scale of the games have gone grander and wilder may be more because of Eshiro, who frequently panders to a wider audience. Perhaps they and the rest of the team think this progression is more popular. To be fair, they wouldn't be wrong. Just look at the collection of triple A games that have been released so far this year.

As a result, I don't see much marketability for making new games with a more down-to-earth style. Maybe it can work well, but there still has to be something refreshing or exciting to promote in the trailers. At least DGS2 is tying up loose ends of its prequel, so that's how it can market itself. But tbh, the info we've gotten so far suggests there isn't much else (like a new gimmick or whatnot) to show other than hint at the plot mysteries. I'm looking forward to it, but I don't expect sales for it to rocket.

If anything, I think I'd rather see a new title from Takumi or Yamazaki that isn't AA-related. They have lots of potential that is being bogged down by technicalities in a massive franchise. After all, Takumi wanted a game about Sherlock Holmes, but was forced to include some tie to the AA series. And Yamazaki has gone on break now.

I don't want to say I'm not looking forward to GS7, but we should get a new scenario director who isn't afraid to be a little adventurous.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Sat May 27, 2017 7:41 am

Going for Miles

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Actually, I get the impression that when we talk about "Yamazaki" and "Takumi" it's referring to the teams at large and not necessarily the individuals. Takumi-games, Yamazaki-games. At least that's how I do it because I'm fairly unfamiliar with exactly who did what when.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GS7 Ideas

Sat May 27, 2017 8:55 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I know, but I'm a sucker for clarification. Takumi usually does the entire scenario first before he talks with other people about it. The only exception I see where that differed is with the crossover, since Hino had a big part in Layton's significance. Yamazaki works with the team from the start. That's why I usually refer to the individuals themselves when I mention their names.

Takumi is also director of his games, so he can get away doing things this way. Then again, I feel any game with Eshiro as producer is bound to have the style I mentioned above. It's part of why I'm looking forward to DGS2. Been a while since he and Takumi worked on a game together and things are bound to go wild.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 am

linkenski

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Going for Miles wrote:

Actually, I get the impression that when we talk about "Yamazaki" and "Takumi" it's referring to the teams at large and not necessarily the individuals. Takumi-games, Yamazaki-games. At least that's how I do it because I'm fairly unfamiliar with exactly who did what when.

Not for me. I think of Yamazaki as a team, but I feel like Yamazaki is the one who pushes for the "grand" scale because all his games feature some sort of national-scale overarching plot and given he's director I feel that's his agenda -- the same way I have a suspicion that "The Matrix" in AJAA was that game's director's agenda rather than Takumi's. The execution is always "Yamazaki & Co." in terms of the script. With Takumi I know he's almost, if not always 100% responsible for the script. There may be editors and planners but Takumi basically writes every word in the script of all games except the Crossover, and he's also director in AA123 and DGS so I hold him accountable for all that. AJAA had a seperate director as I mentioned, and I have no doubt he imposed ideas Takumi had to compromise more with, and he had more say in what was done with other departments like art and gameplay.

I think art, UI, non-narrative direction is more up to the teams themselves and I actually think DD and AA6 as much as they may be oversaturated-looking and the UI is a bit more sluggish, they have top-notch art design that rivals what Takumi's team does in many respects. It does still feel overall like a B-team though, similar to how Dark Souls and Bloodborne differ from Dark Souls 2.

Eshiro is very producer-minded cuz he's a producer, but I think his wide-audience appeal is more tied to having too many characters and cameos and ensuring fanservice makes the cut, than he's the reason why the finale of all his games are so epic in scope. From interviews I get the impression that Eshiro is more concerned with including the features people want to see while the story and its direction is more on Yamazaki. The only compromise is if Yamazaki pulls too far away from the Ace Attorney DNA and Eshiro will probably say "Please make it more like T&T" or something. Like you said before, I think a game that sprung solely from Yamazaki's mind would probably be an Ace Attorney with a floating courtroom in an alternative dimension where it's revealed that it's all an optical illusion caused by a foreign country over Japanifornia to prevent their trojan horse being discovered -- something WILD.

I'd actually like to see what an unhinged Yamazaki could make, but I'm afraid that A: It's going to be derivative of Ace Attorney or some other franchise without Yamazaki realizing it, and B: I wouldn't be able to follow the train of logic before stopping halfway through going "What the hell is even going on anymore!?!?"

^ You can tell Takumi's games have less peer review for better or for worse. He's a better writer than any individual on the Yamazaki team, but he's still one guy deciding everything and without likeminded writers pointing out bad ideas when he comes up with them, which does happen here and there. Both teams's games have self-indulgent moments or weird unnecessary quirks but they sort of feel different in Takumi's games right since AA1 have had these moments here and there. Most writers have this philosophy of "kill your babies". I'm not sure if Takumi is able to do that with the amount of solo-work he does whereas Yamazaki's own input is constantly put up to scrutiny as they make the product, but for better or worse, it also leads to groupthink that can go both ways.

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Sun May 28, 2017 9:08 am

Going for Miles

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Okay, so I did a stupid joke and sloppily used "Yamazaki" rather than "Yamazaki & co." because grand killings and the Investigations games + DD and SoJ are labelled "Yamazaki" in my head because his name is pretty much the only one that has popped up constantly in discussions about writing style, plots etc. My point was it was obviously a side-comment that had nothing to do with anything and was in jest (for clarification, I don't want a GS7 at all) so picking apart a choice of words mostly felt uncalled for since it didn't really matter for the discussion at hand and I think anyone reading it would most likely understand what I meant.

Quote:

Not for me. I think of Yamazaki as a team, but I feel like Yamazaki is the one who pushes for the "grand" scale because all his games feature some sort of national-scale overarching plot and given he's director I feel that's his agenda --

But that's... exactly my point?

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon May 29, 2017 2:39 pm

linkenski

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Sorry, half of my post was commenting on something Rubia said, I'm just too lazy to quote properly :viola:

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:06 pm

MBr

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Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney

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Re: GS7 Ideas

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Southern Corn

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MBr wrote:

Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney

Switching in between Germany and Khura'in occasionally.

The final case involves

Spoiler: AJ

Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:58 pm

linkenski

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Posts: 1636

MBr wrote:

My idea: no Yamazaki

My idea: Takumi, GS mainline canon, Nick and Maya, Gumshoe and a silly new prosecutor, random cases and an epic finale, GO! It'll never get old (we all have our delusions, this is mine)
You know my opinion on Yamazaki but it still remains to be seen what an Ace Attorney game is gonna be like without him and also without Takumi. It's no guarantee it's an improvement over DD or SoJ.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:38 am

MBr

Enoshima Junko-chan!

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Posts: 867

True. If it's worse I'll be complaining about that.

11037

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:16 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

2008-2018

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6146

Well, technically Takumi took the backseat on AJ. Personally, I don't think it's a flop, but it is usually regarded as one of the lesser favorites in the series.

Then again, I am one of those fans who thinks PLvsAA is disappointing despite a fantastic buildup. I pray that DGS2 isn't going to be like that.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:40 am

Southern Corn

Simply Batty

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:42 am

Posts: 4672

And I'm one of the fans who love the crossover but love AJ even more. Imo AAI2 is his best game, but even that has some flaws. SoJ is his second best, but even then its at the top of the bottom of my list. And DD & AAI....are right down at the bottom. Um.

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:37 am

Going for Miles

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7742

My delusion is that the series will stop now, after DGS2. At least leave the main series alone, I hope. :simon:

I definitely think Takumi's games (DGS not included since I have no idea what it's like) are more even in terms of quality. The trilogy is great, AJ is my personal favourite... then again, so is SoJ.
But AAI and DD are pretty weak in my opinion, compared to the rest of the games. AAI2 is... I'll hold my opinion on that one, my memories are fairly vague (might not speak in its favour, though), but I finally have the means to play it for myself so I'll get on it and refresh my memory after I'm done replaying SoJ =) I love its plot, though, but I prefer PW and T&T, how it holds up to JfA I'm not sure about yet.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:38 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

At this point I don't think more Ace Attorney is bad for anything. Back when it was just T&T, AJAA and two spinoffs I thought the trilogy and its story was still mostly untouched but after DD it feels like the floodgates have been opened for more and more, and more... and more....... and more Phoenix Wright, and for what it's worth they still have a lot of entertainment value regardless of whether they do the previous canon justice. It's like Dragon Ball GT to me.

I wish Takumi could stop making Ace Attorney after DGS2. Ghost Trick was so good, and I know there must be ideas for completely other ideas left in that man, and I was way more excited playing Ghost Trick than I was playing any Ace Attorney game after T&T. It's not that DGS is bad (from the little I've played) or even AA6 (maybe halfway good, halfway half-decent) but the diminishing-returns factor is getting so strong with this series to me. I really felt it hard throughout AA6 to the point where I put the game down several times before I finally beat it while previously I'd beat those games at least in a weekend.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: GS7 Ideas

Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:58 pm

Going for Miles

Wassup, witchy baby!

Gender: Male

Location: Sweden

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Posts: 7742

linkenski wrote:

but the diminishing-returns factor is getting so strong with this series to me.

This is what I fear and why I want AA6 to be the last in the main series and preferrably DGS2 being the last overall: in my opinion SoJ was a fantastic game and a worthy ending - it's big, it's beautiful, it leaves things open rather than leaving loose threads. That being said, it also seems open in a way that would allow more games to be made without it feeling forced (as opposed to AJ after T&T, one could argue, but I won't since I looooove AJ and is happy it happened) but I don't want it to become that kind of series that just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going. Would I keep buying them? Most likely. Would I keep enjoying them? Hopefully. But the risk is it'd get watered out (and I felt that way with DD, but then SoJ arrived and was in my opinion amazing, which is also why I hope that they stop at this exact point so that it's guaranteed to end on a high note), or that it is overstaying its welcome. And unless potential future titles are bloody fantastic, then I feel it's enough in terms of quantity - we have six titles in the main series, a VS title, two spin-off titles here and two other spin-off titles there.
Or to put it in a shorter way, what you describe feeling about AA6 and the series generally is basically what I'm afraid of feeling if they continue making further titles.

Quote:

I wish Takumi could stop making Ace Attorney after DGS2. Ghost Trick was so good, and I know there must be ideas for completely other ideas left in that man

Oh my Gregory yes.

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:39 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Well, technically Takumi took the backseat on AJ. Personally, I don't think it's a flop, but it is usually regarded as one of the lesser favorites in the series.

Then again, I am one of those fans who thinks PLvsAA is disappointing despite a fantastic buildup. I pray that DGS2 isn't going to be like that.

This is why I'm just a tad wary though as I think the same. I like both AJAA and PLvPWAA in parts kinda like JFA and when they peak they're really good, just like DGS, but you have to consider that both AJAA, PLvPWAA and... well DGS too, were all games that started out very good but then their ultimate conclusions came up rather short (I get DGS isn't actually concluded yet though!). I'm just saying Takumi has something to prove with writing his next bookend because for this franchise he hasn't been doing too well in that regard since he ended the trilogy, and regardless of what I think of DD or SoJ holistically, but they actually feel more complete to me than AJAA and PLvPWAA did. Some of the conclusions in those two games are downright outrageous or stupid and at worst, in SoJ, they didn't build it up properly at all, but at least it doesn't feel deflated like the endings to the recent Takumi-led Ace Attorneys.

So, I'm really crossing my fingers DGS2 makes the DGS canon a highly revered one to the people that play it. I'll do anything for another AA123-calibre overplot.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: GS7 Ideas

Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:00 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

2008-2018

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6146

I've thought long and hard about this, and I think it's about time for this series to take on more serious themes. No, it doesn't have to be adult themes like rape or domestic violence. I'm thinking along the lines of rehabilitation of convicts. It's PG and it's all about mercy. I think it'd fit nicely in this kind of series.

When I read up on the GS6 interview with Yamazaki and Fuse, I fell in love with the Mafia court theme. There are so many things to run with it, though like Yamazaki mentioned, it could end up with dead MCs if they make the wrong move. Too bad, since they mentioned it in an interview, they're not doing it anymore.

But my favorite side to this theme is: we have the opportunity to deal with clients who were once shameless criminals. Maybe they still are, or maybe they've reformed - either completely or partially - and you get to sympathize with them. We never really hear from the villains after they're detained. Either they're monsters and are best not seen again or they're just petty thieves like Sahwit. Tbh, a villain like Gant is what I have in mind. He strikes me as someone who won't dare commit murder again if he were released. He committed a selfish crime and ruined the lives of several different people, yet I can't really hate him for it. I mean, I did hate him during that case, but I'm willing to forgive him if he repents.

Actually, I'm curious how far such a theme can go. How much evil could a villain do and still be forgiven? Would theft or minor assault on someone for the sake of gathering evidence or revealing the truth be justified? What if the real culprit goes free because of an unreliable court, for example? Thanks to double jeopardy, we'd have to pin them down through another case down the line. Such a villain could be a reused asset, thus saving on having to come up with another villain, and the wait would only make taking them down all the more satisfying.

Note that this isn't the same as with

Spoiler: DD

...Well, at least I have lots of ideas for my take on the discarded Mafia court theme.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: GS7 Ideas

Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:08 pm

Gwen Stacy

Final Fantasy 7

Gender: None specified

Location: Paradise Falls

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:43 pm

Posts: 113

MBr wrote:

Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney

Yes.This needs to happen.

All Lives Matter
Just Do It
Keep It Classic
Equality
Dream Big
All for one One for all
#Autism Speaks
#Vegas Strong
#Houston Strong
#WNBAAllDay
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Re: GS7 Ideas

Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:32 pm

MBr

Enoshima Junko-chan!

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Posts: 867

I had an idea: What if Klavier is the main rival for Athena in GS7?

11037

Re: GS7 Ideas

Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:17 am

Slammer

Gender: Male

Location: Japanifornia

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:24 pm

Posts: 435

Going for Miles wrote:

but I don't want it to become that kind of series that just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going.

That's mainly the reason because I hope this series could rest for a while. After I finished playing SOJ, I felt I needed a sequel immediately, maybe partly because of the open ending and Athena's little character development. Nearly a year later, I'm more conflicted about it: I think releasing a game every two years, at this point, can only make things worse.

Developers should sit-down, take their time to think and then see if new ideas come to mind. Continuing to create games with the same formula, same locations and same cast, after we've had 6 main titles + 2 spin-offs, would only produce a deja-vu/more-of-the-same feeling, which personally I'd already felt since DD, despite liking it.

Not saying they should throw every distinctive feature in the trash: as they also said, what makes Ace Attorney "Ace Attorney" should be left untouched, otherwise you would be playing a different game. But they should renew the formula with brand new and fresh ideas, leave the (gorgeous and memorable) old cast behind and make new stories, which is basically what Takumi is doing with DGS (and yet I can't even play it!).

Gregory... Tomorrow, I'm heading towards that fateful place with your son. To find out the truth of 18 years ago...

Re: GS7 Ideas

Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:37 pm

MBr

Enoshima Junko-chan!

Gender: Male

Location: Canada

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Posts: 867

Slammer wrote:

That's mainly the reason because I hope this series could rest for a while. After I finished playing SOJ, I felt I needed a sequel immediately, maybe partly because of the open ending and Athena's little character development. Nearly a year later, I'm more conflicted about it: I think releasing a game every two years, at this point, can only make things worse.

This sums up what I'm feeling at the moment. I want an Athena game as I'm a fan of hers and I think that what occurred for her in SoJ was a disappointment for such a major character in the preceding game. On the other hand, Athena is at the same stage of her career that Phoenix was in after the first game. She has achieved her original goal and now her future is open to new challenges. It would be reasonable to say her story and development is over as far as the official canon is concerned. It is disappointing, though, for it to be over so soon for a playable character. She was basically an afterthought in SoJ because the other playable characters had more important roles.

At this moment, with Apollo in Khura'in, it's possible for there to be a time-skip if the developers want to bring him back to Japanifornia. Regardless, I think taking a break for a few years is perfectly reasonable.

11037

Re: GS7 Ideas

Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:51 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1636

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

I've thought long and hard about this, and I think it's about time for this series to take on more serious themes. No, it doesn't have to be adult themes like rape or domestic violence. I'm thinking along the lines of rehabilitation of convicts. It's PG and it's all about mercy. I think it'd fit nicely in this kind of series.

When I read up on the GS6 interview with Yamazaki and Fuse, I fell in love with the Mafia court theme. There are so many things to run with it, though like Yamazaki mentioned, it could end up with dead MCs if they make the wrong move. Too bad, since they mentioned it in an interview, they're not doing it anymore.

But my favorite side to this theme is: we have the opportunity to deal with clients who were once shameless criminals. Maybe they still are, or maybe they've reformed - either completely or partially - and you get to sympathize with them. We never really hear from the villains after they're detained. Either they're monsters and are best not seen again or they're just petty thieves like Sahwit. Tbh, a villain like Gant is what I have in mind. He strikes me as someone who won't dare commit murder again if he were released. He committed a selfish crime and ruined the lives of several different people, yet I can't really hate him for it. I mean, I did hate him during that case, but I'm willing to forgive him if he repents.

Actually, I'm curious how far such a theme can go. How much evil could a villain do and still be forgiven? Would theft or minor assault on someone for the sake of gathering evidence or revealing the truth be justified? What if the real culprit goes free because of an unreliable court, for example? Thanks to double jeopardy, we'd have to pin them down through another case down the line. Such a villain could be a reused asset, thus saving on having to come up with another villain, and the wait would only make taking them down all the more satisfying.

Note that this isn't the same as with

Spoiler: DD

...Well, at least I have lots of ideas for my take on the discarded Mafia court theme.

The first game and Apollo Justice in particular had some seriously dark moments like suicide and cancer, that kinda feel realistic to the real world. I think as this series has progressed and as charming as it is, both Takumi and Yamazaki/Eshiro may have gotten too caught up in the conventions and mandated tropes of these games. Before this was a series all I saw was the potential for it to grow from what it was in the first game and potentially into anything. You often see people mistake these games for being a courtroom simulator-type game or a game where picking the right evidence isn't linear and they'll complain when they find out how strict the formula actually is. I love the scenarios they have managed to make out of it, but I've often thought they've been holding themselves back by not trying to mix up the formula, either from a game-design perspective or story-focus. I get this is where some people like AAI and AAI2 because they feature multiple partners and circumvent the Maya-fey-like sidekick role in many situations (despite of Kay).

It would just be cool to see them rebrand the series for a new sub-series. I had a shower-thought today about the fact that I think there are multiple types of anime, where Ace Attorney is clearly not the same type of target audience as Zero Escape or Shin Megami Tensei for example, where one style has more grit or more detailed character art, darker color schemes and more bluntly dark themes. In Yamazaki's games they venture into conspiracies and national plots on a superficial level. I sometimes think "what if Yamazaki made an "Ultimate Ace Attorney" series?" where it's more Zero Escape in tone, it doesn't need Furio Tigre like characters that are overly zany.

I love the way it is and I think I will always like it the most no matter where the series goes, but I wouldn't close my mind to a sub-series shifting the style a little more away from where it is now, especially if it means they can completely circumvent tropes of the series (and hopefully anime tropes, but this is where I don't trust Yamazaki enough)

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney