EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:10 pm

PhoenixTears

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Well... Unless capcom bases this game in the past, they will use the jurist system where you can choose weather they're innocent or guilty sssoooo....
In this game will it just be easy cases because you can choose whether you win or not?

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:22 pm

Franzise Deauxnim

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I really doubt giving the player that choice was anything more than a one-shot deal. Even if it isn't, you still have to "work" your way to the end of each case first.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:50 pm

Gerkuman

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I expect it to go: Reach the end as normal, make the opponent freak out as normal, the Judge asks the Jury to vote and then you get called back in to the courtroom to find out if you won. That way, if you fluff up the case then they can make it look like the Jury voted them guilty, rather than the Judge getting flustered.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:50 pm

DeMatador

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No, that would be too easy, maybe the Jurist system will not be controlled by you, but the Jurists will be like the Judge, they pass a veredict to Udgy and he says something like 'The Jurists have made their final veredict. This court find the defendant, Charley the Plant (WTF?)... Not Guilty!', if you win the case. Maybe in one case Kristoph will buy the Jurists like Mr. Burns made with Krusty and Quimby in the Simpsons, and make veredicts the way he wants. Yeah, that's REEEEEALLLY likely to happen... The Jurists not being controlled by you is really likely to happen, that's for sure.

EDIT: Gerkuman, that's what I meant, but I'm sure the Jurists will make a Not Guilty veredict if you make it throught the whole case...

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:05 pm

Gerkuman

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Yes, thats exactly what I meant. If you get through, Not Guilty. If you don't, Guilty!

Re: EXTREMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:12 am

Brandon Strong

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Do we know for sure that from now on they will all be Jury tirals? It seemed kinda like a case specific thing to me.

Last edited by Brandon Strong on Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:17 am

FdrlPrsctrTails

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There should so be Mistrials.

That would be cool.

I see the Jury System as a chance to introduce some new Judges.

Maybe one could do an "Dynamite Charge"

Well, I can dream.

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:23 am

Rookie

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They either need to scrap the 'Jurist' system entirely, or seriously revamp it. Because after going through an epic trial with turnabouts, being cornered and getting out of it, pining your opponent down, watching them squirm out of it, and then pin them down again being given a "Do you want to win?" choice is very anti-climatic.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:37 pm

PhoenixTears

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Maybe there should be a case like 2-4 where your defendant is guilty but you have to selet whether he's guilty or not. If you pick innocent then they have a bad ending like Apollo leaving the courtroom or Trucy being kidnapped and assasinated or whatever....

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:32 pm

KennyRock

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As said above, I doubt you'll control the Jurist System. One major thing that bothers me about the it is how is it really going to be unique? The only thing that makes it different is when you don't have enough evidence but they deliver a Not Guilty anyway. If they do that too often, it's going to get really old, really fast.

In all other respects, it seems just like the old system to me. If you have all the evidence and get through the trial, you get a Not Guilty. If you mess up too much, it's a Guilty verdict. If there isn't some new dynamic to the trials because of the Jurist system(as Brandon said), there's no sense in having it. Does anyone have any theories as to how it may be different? I'll throw a few out there and see what you think:

I would LOVE for the Jurists to be present in the Courtroom. Imagine being able to Perceive the Jurists, seeing one of them flinch during a testimony, and finding them out to be the murderer?

The Ace Attorney series has had you breach the law before(1-5), what if you need to investigate and find one of the Jurists BEFORE the day's proceedings start, and BEG them to not agree on a verdict just yet?

More generally, I'd like it if the Jurists, rather than the prosecution, asked you to prove or clarify something. Imagine the Judge going: "Mr. Justice, I have a question from the Jurists. Can you explain WHY the witness couldn't have seen the defendant that night?" And then the prosecutor going, "Ah-HA! I'd like to know that too."

I guess one more idea is this: What if you can pick when to rest your case? You get to a point, and you think you've shown all the evidence possible, and want to leave it up to the Jurists? But if you rest too early, you get a guilty verdict back? Now THAT would be a brand new dynamic and make the game a little less linear. Imagine if there's a whole other day of investigating that you only get to if you keep trudging forward and refuse to rest your case in Day 2?

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:09 am

Julius

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I'd imagine the Jurist system working with some sort of influence meter for each one, where you could see the details of the jurists, and what would affect their decisions, and they could be swayed towards an innocent or guilty verdict depending on the evidence you present, and how solid a case you make.

That, in addition to all the old courtroom action, with default events already giving an impact on the final outcome, of course.

But with that, the trials would have to be more open-ended, with no more life meter, and situations occurring when you botch a cross-examination, as well as chances to redeem yourself.

It'd make the game much more dynamic, actually.

This one's by Elriel! Can't thank you enough!

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:52 am

DarknessLord

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Well, I'd like the new meter to be a believability meter, where the bar now represents how much the jury believes you.
I think it should start at mid-point and go up when you prove something important and go down when you mess up (like a on a perceive), or say something stupid (like pick a joke option, regretfully).

I also think there should be a guilty threshold, where you don’t auto-lose but if you don’t get it up before the end, you get a non-standard game over when you lose at the end.
But that’s just me...

That's how I see the Jurist system once it's in full use...

PW-The Musical

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:08 am

Aceed

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PhoenixAshes wrote:

Maybe there should be a case like 2-4 where your defendant is guilty but you have to selet whether he's guilty or not. If you pick innocent then they have a bad ending like Apollo leaving the courtroom or Trucy being kidnapped and assasinated or whatever....

Despite the last one of those being impossible to occur if I know my capcom right, a 'real' bad ending would be interesting imo. In 4-4, you were only allowed to see for a bit and then get the doors closed defeat.

Altough, the juror system used in 4-4 is just... no, don't take that one back.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:15 am

FdrlPrsctrTails

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If they're going to keep the jury system, we should make the defendants guilt or innocence a mystery. After the verdict we find out if the defendant did it or not.

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:23 am

Bensan

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We never actually learned if the Jurist System was entirely established.

Could've been a flop, given that the previous system would've established a 'Guilty' verdict... And there could be many adversed to that.

Regardless, Its not liable to change all that much.

I'm guilty of it, Really.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:07 am

Seal481

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If they keep the jury system, I doubt they'd let you do that again. Besides, I'm sure they'd still keep the life bar, and when it ran out, it would just say the jury gave a guilty verdict.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:46 am

IrisWright

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Well then like you could get one part wrong not know and then get Guilty eventhough you finished it all. I still can't fully grasp it

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:30 am

Mr. Bear Jew

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I said this earlier but I'll say it again. The Jurist System opens up new opportunities for criminals. Let's say you take a case, but you get several hints throughout the case that your client is guilty. He never tells you outright, so you never know for sure. Would you want the jury to find a criminal "Guilty" or "Not Guilty"?

Capcom needs to play some more mind games with the players. That's one of the reasons why 2-4 was so awesome: It didn't follow suit. Really, the Ace Attorney series is getting kind of stale.

Prosecution: "U GOTZ NO EVIDENSU I WINNAR"

Criminal: "HO HO HO C U GAIZ L8ER"

Defense: "NOT SO FASTLY MOVING!111 TAEK A LOOK AT DIS HERE EBIDENCE"

Prosecution: "OMFG WERE DID U GIT DAT"

Defense: "I FINDS IT LOL"

Criminal: "AH SHIITE AH'VE BEEN FOWND OUT" *breakdown*

Judge: "CASE CLOSED! DEFENDANT IZ, LIEK, TOTALLY NOT GUILTY"

Gallery: *cheer*

CASE CLOSED!

FdrlPrsctrTails wrote:

If they're going to keep the jury system, we should make the defendants guilt or innocence a mystery. After the verdict we find out if the defendant did it or not.

Even more awesome would be if it affects a case later on in the game, or makes the story branch off into different paths. At least it would add some replay value. I'm with Tails. The Jurist System needs to stay until it outlives its usefulness.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:03 pm

IrisWright

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Ah.... So the courts gonna be filled with Sals that makes sense. XD

sigTolombo conMagic

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:10 pm

divinityx

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Rookie wrote:

They either need to scrap the 'Jurist' system entirely, or seriously revamp it. Because after going through an epic trial with turnabouts, being cornered and getting out of it, pining your opponent down, watching them squirm out of it, and then pin them down again being given a "Do you want to win?" choice is very anti-climatic.

That's what I thought when I played it. It said "choose carefully" and I didn't even think of pushing "Guilty". It is certainly asking whether you want to win or not, and it would take a real idiot to push "guilty" when the whole game was about getting him "not guilty". Or they could just make it so even if you press "guilty" it makes you somehow change your mind or something, I dunno, but that would be boring.

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:56 pm

Mr. Bear Jew

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Well, there's always a chance that Capcom will try doing what Tails and I have been suggesting, which would seem like the only way to add that subtle twist to the cases.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:14 am

Sailor-Nova-s

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I'm sure the Jury would just be a random quote too, "The Jury is Debating" sit off in the waiting room a whiles, Polly and the defendant have an almost-final chat... "Hey I'm nervous" or maybe "This case seems to be going well" or even "we're going to loooooose~" ...if they hide the life bar...

But, uh, did anyone other than me pick "guilty?"
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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:24 pm

NaturallyLazy

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I did pick Guilty, at first. Just to see what would happen. Then I almost cried because I felt bad for :doodle:

and picking her guilty.

As for the jurist system's return, I'd probably do the same as I did in AJ and pick guilty first, check out the outcome and then go back and pick Not Guilty. Unless I was really sure that somebody did it, like in Case 2-4 (The Matt Engarde Case). Unfortunately I think that the judge's role would be reduced too much and all of his "Stupid" moments would disappear.

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Anders

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I imagine that the Jurist System will have been put in place by GS5. They made such a big point about it in 4-4 that it would seem like such a waste just to say "oh, btw, the latter third of the previous game was meaningless." To that end I even wonder a little on whether or not we haven't seen the last of the Mason System, either.

Bensan wrote:

We never actually learned if the Jurist System was entirely established.

Could've been a flop, given that the previous system would've established a 'Guilty' verdict... And there could be many adversed to that.

I think the resolution of that case would provide more fuel for the Jurists' institution, not cause it to flop. From the perspective of the public, Vera was an easy person to sympathize with, and the fact that she would've been declared guilty without the jurists would promote the opinion that the current system was flawed. Plus, establishment of the Jurist system would probably net a regular paycheck for Phoenix, which'll keep him involved in the next game and capable of supporting both Trucy and Apollo.

As for how the Jurist system would work, I don't think it has to have an effect on how the game plays out, really. Until the very end of 4-4, the case played out identically to every other case in the series. You run the case out to its logical conclusion and get your "Not Guilty." All it does is keep you in the dark a little more in the narrative sense, since you wouldn't have the jury telling you that they might cut the case short in the way that :judge:

does. The developers could make it more complicated than that if they really wanted to, but I doubt they will.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:18 am

UserShadow7989

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One way they could make it interesting is if the criminal would occasionally have a battle of wits with Apollo like in 1-3. You only get a single chance at each question. If you make the right choice and/or present the right evidence, Apollo makes the murderer/blackmailer/thief/whatever look suspicious and the jury starts siding with the defence, but if you guess wrong the villan makes your client look bad. At the end, if you did well the jury will prolong the trial and give Apollo more time/chances to nail the real criminal. If you fail, they declare your client guilty on the spot.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:49 pm

chazooma

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The only point of letting you choose in 4-5 was to show who exactly Jurist No.6 is, and if you want to see the bad ending. I don't think they'd do it for every single jury case.

Maybe a future jury is quite stubborn and demands decisive evidence that x is actually the killer.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:47 pm

El Huesudo II

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I was thinking...

A double case.

It's so plausible it's not funny.

A case where some mysterious jury keeps voting "Guilty" when everyone else votes "Not guilty". No matter what you or to what lenghts you go to defend your client, the man keeps voting "Guilty", the three days end, and the defendant is voted Guilty.

Then, just when you're coming out of the courtroom completely depressed, disaster happens: The disagreeing jury was murdered. Suspects: everyone in the room.

Then you investigate that case and find out some nasty stuff going on: You were defending the guilty party all along, and the jury and witnesses were all accomplices. They all had a hand on killing the jury.

Suddenly, your client, who was guilty, dies from poisoning in jail: apparently, they had sent him a letter with touch-acting venom. The sender: The mysterious, now deceased, jury.

You begin freaking out.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:36 am

A Link to the Snitch

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In my opinion, it'll be a deeper system than the Judge system. It'll be six people deliberating on it, six opinions, six biases, etc.

Also, what about if the trial was prolonged by convincing one Juror of your client's innocence? Instead of trying to convince the Judge, you have to bring the aforementioned "Juror Influence" meter up high enough to just barely convince that one Juror to keep the trial going.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:55 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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How about they let the game continue even if you get a Guilty verdict? Things could change depending on if you win each case or not (ie; you get presented with one caseif not guilty, one case if guilty), and it's allow for much more freedoom in the game.

Julia...<3

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:38 pm

Neverwind

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I don't see the Jury system having to much of an impact in the next game. The game will play the same as always. 4-4 played just like any other case, with the exception of the ending. Trials will play out like they always have. Just with a different method of reaching a verdict.

Yeah, it may seem like a waste. But the Jury system would bring about to many changes to the games. This in turn may turn away some fans of the series. Others will praise the innovation. Looking at it, however, the risks outweigh the rewards.

On the one hand we have sticking with what works. Ace Attorney fans will buy the game like always and enjoy it. Capcom then continues to use the same formula with small changes here and there and the fans keep buying. The downside is that the series is unlikely to attract new fans.

On the other side of things, Capcom can implent an entirely new system and radically alter key components of gameplay. This brings about the possibility of bringing in new fans to the series, but risks alienating older fans of the series. Of course, some will enjoy the new system, but others may turn their backs on the series because it is to different. The number of new fans may not be able to counteract the number of fans disowning the series.

So, in order to keep fans and sales, I believe Capcom will stick with what always works. The Jury System will, however, bring new story oppurtunities. It just won't bring any changes to gameplay.

And that's what I have to say on the matter. Phew. Glad I got that off my chest.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:40 am

A Link to the Snitch

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The Magatama was criticized, but it was definitely worth adding.

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Sun May 25, 2008 8:16 pm

Emiga

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What about, like the U.S. Supreme court, there could be a system of 9 judges, and like, they could each have their own opinions, kind of like the jurist system, but completely different. And also, like :udgy:

, they could all have their stupid moments! Maybe :udgy:

somehow gets appointed to the Supreme Court!

/rant

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Mon May 26, 2008 3:00 am

gdude823

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PhoenixTears wrote:

Well... Unless capcom bases this game in the past, they will use the jurist system where you can choose weather they're innocent or guilty sssoooo....
In this game will it just be easy cases because you can choose whether you win or not?

Maybe Capcom will make the plot so it seems like your client is innocent and guilty at the same time and you get to choose guilty or not guilty and get to different endings for each case and either way unlock the next case.....if you ask me they may actually do this...but capcom is unpredictible, i mean whoever saw the guy from the hotti clinic posing to be a doctor from PW 2 coming back in AJ

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue May 27, 2008 11:22 am

FlashPoint

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If they use the jurist system, couldn't a jurist be corrupted. That would be great for a case.

Thanks Elriel for the sig!

Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue May 27, 2008 7:12 pm

Sphinx

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I see the problem, but it wouldn't be to hard to predict really, I mean take the last case, sure you had the choice wether she was quilty or innocent, but you had to compete the case first, aso like the last case there's a bad ending to a bad verdict, I don't think to many people will be corrupting it and choosing the easy path because it would really end up giving bad endings. :P

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Tue May 27, 2008 11:01 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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How about a corrupt AI juror who keeps prolonging the trial?

Julia...<3

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Wed May 28, 2008 3:50 am

DahliaXKristoph

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NaturallyLazy wrote:

I did pick Guilty, at first. Just to see what would happen. Then I almost cried because I felt bad for :doodle:

and picking her guilty.

As for the jurist system's return, I'd probably do the same as I did in AJ and pick guilty first, check out the outcome and then go back and pick Not Guilty. Unless I was really sure that somebody did it, like in Case 2-4 (The Matt Engarde Case). Unfortunately I think that the judge's role would be reduced too much and all of his "Stupid" moments would disappear.

;) I totally picked 'Guilty.'

Spoiler: 4-4

...I think the Jurist System--if they even use it--will be much more complicated than we are all assuming.

C'mon, guys, Capcom hasn't TOTALLY gone off the deep end yet; they know what they're doing...

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Wed May 28, 2008 10:38 pm

Ty': Ace Attorney

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That would be silly if they did.
I mean, what fun is it when you can choose how it ends everytime? *shrug*
Of course, you never know what's in store for you until it comes right?
We'll just have to wait and see

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Fri May 30, 2008 2:39 pm

BSRaven

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Just wondering how the "Jurist Influence" would work...

Would it be shown on either of the screens, or just be a 'behind the scenes' number? If it was shown, wouldn't a corrupt/blackmailed jurist be easy to notice?

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Re: EXTREAMELY easy cases!? *AJ spoilers*

Fri May 30, 2008 4:21 pm

Phoenix_Apollo

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BSRaven wrote:

Just wondering how the "Jurist Influence" would work...

Would it be shown on either of the screens, or just be a 'behind the scenes' number? If it was shown, wouldn't a corrupt/blackmailed jurist be easy to notice?

I suppose it's suspicious if one jurist keeps saying GUILTY, but the question next would be "Why is the juror doing this?"

Julia...<3

Related to NaturallyLazy, fatalfeline, JadeRoach, and Game Over!