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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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Crowley wrote:
DarknessLord wrote:
Also, I want to see loli Fran badly!

NO. I WILL KILL IF THIS HAPPENS AND IT'S SEXUAL, EVEN IF I GET THE DEATH SENTENCE. EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T MEAN IT.

Um, chill? I'm pretty sure the 'loli' comment wasn't referring to lolicon, and since when has the series used any such sexual overtones? PWAA had scenes of Phoenix, Larry, and Edgeworth as children, and I don't see you ranting about killing people because it was shota. I happen to be one of the people who wants to see loli!Fran, and that's because it would be adorable, not because I'm lolicon. Children are cute, and thus many people are partial to seeing their favourite characters when they were younger. Seriously, calm down.

On the topic of loli!Fran, considering the game is Edgey-centric with Franny as a promised main character, references to their years living with von Karma are quite likely, and will hopefully be accompanied by a few snapshots. A flashback case wouldn't really fit, and if it happened it would more likely be to cater to the wants of fans instead of having anything to do with the story. My verdict: Loli!Fran yes, flashback no.

And as for their relationship, I would much rather see their relationship developed as a strong sibling bond-rivalry-partner dynamic than a romance. They have a very deep and complicated reliationship with each other, I'd like to think, and that wasn't thoroughly enough addressed in the series.

And I guess I'm the only one who thinks that the Phoenix card will have something to do with her appearance...
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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Yeah, I agree. He's kinda of a threat, I guess. But still, I feel like she doesn't hate him.


Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. :D


And dude, Crowley, chill. Loli!Fran = Fran as a little kid, ja? It'll probably happen, much like how there were flashbacks of Phoenix as a kid with Edgeworth and Larry. I don't really want there to be a flashback CASE though, just flashbacks. I really want to know more about their childhood, and maybe it'll give us more insight to the way they are now.
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Marshmello wrote:

And I guess I'm the only one who thinks that the Phoenix card will have something to do with her appearance...

I dunno, I feel like the card might be hopeless now--she said she was going to give it back to Phoenix when they next met in court, but, uh, that's a bit impossible now...
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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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Ceres wrote:
^ your avatar fits. XD

That's why I picked it. Admiral Zhao, you scoundrel.^_^
Marshmello wrote:
Um, chill? I'm pretty sure the 'loli' comment wasn't referring to lolicon, and since when has the series used any such sexual overtones? PWAA had scenes of Phoenix, Larry, and Edgeworth as children, and I don't see you ranting about killing people because it was shota. I happen to be one of the people who wants to see loli!Fran, and that's because it would be adorable, not because I'm lolicon. Children are cute, and thus many people are partial to seeing their favourite characters when they were younger. Seriously, calm down.

...Sorry for bursting back there, but I you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. Of course there are no sexual things in the flashbacks in the games, and I would love seeing a young Franziska. What got me so mad was the idea that the fans would want lolicon in Phoenix Wright.
This is the reason why I can't quite like Franziska. I'm sorry, Franzy, it's not your fault. It's the Fandumb.
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Pink Princess wrote:
ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Yeah, I agree. He's kinda of a threat, I guess. But still, I feel like she doesn't hate him.


Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. :D




Whoops, sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing if I did. :edgy:

And personally, I want to see a little Franziska so badly. ^^ With a little whip and everything! I bet no one made fun of HER on the playground.

...Especially if she was homeschooled. Which seems likely, considering she was finished with school by the time she was 13.
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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:

And personally, I want to see a little Franziska so badly. ^^ With a little whip and everything! I bet no one made fun of HER on the playground.

...Especially if she was homeschooled. Which seems likely, considering she was finished with school by the time she was 13.

I wouldn't be surprised either. Just imagine: the von Karma school curriculum.
The more I think about it, the more I regret shouting out. Now everyone's going to see me as "that psycho pedophile poster"
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Crowley wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised either. Just imagine: the von Karma school curriculum.
The more I think about it, the more I regret shouting out. Now everyone's going to see me as "that psycho pedophile poster"


Awww, don't worry about it. Everyone has their little outbursts. *hugs*
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Crowley wrote:

The more I think about it, the more I regret shouting out. Now everyone's going to see me as "that psycho pedophile poster"


Hey, it's cool dude.
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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:

Awww, don't worry about it. Everyone has their little outbursts. *hugs*

Pink Princess wrote:

Hey, it's cool dude.

T-t-thanks, guys. It's true what they say; the Ace Attorney fandom really is the nicest.
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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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You chicks and your passionate arguments about pairings.
Gozu wrote:
omg ur just lik :edgeworth:

did ur parents di or somefin

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Trucy: [Daddy was fired from legal clerk for loitering] Daddy has a fun new job as a street sweeper!
Phoenix: Guess what Apollo, today I swept up some EVIDENCE! ....
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Emperor Ing wrote:
You chicks and your passionate arguments about pairings.

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????
I have no clue what you're talking about..so here's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head.
..since when did shipping get into this?
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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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Aaaaaanyway, back on track...

I really don't want to see a flashback case. Sorry :(

I really believe that stories should be told chronologically. In the first game they did a great job of drawing on events of the past and making them important without actually revisiting them. In fact, most AA cases have to rely on past incidents to create a motive for the crime comitted. They're pretty good about giving you the important facts without doing an entire aside.

But an entire case that takes place in the past runs a pretty high risk of ret-conning. Even in T&T, it felt like they were squeezing things into canon that shouldn't have been there. In the first game we already learned that Phoenix was persecuted as a child, and Edgeworth standing up for him changed the course of his life and spurred his decision to become a lawyer. It kind of irked me going into T&T when they then tacked on, "Btw, he was also on trial for murder once himself before then, and etc etc girlfriend you never knew about..."

It's great to learn new things about characters, but the question always arises: why didn't we hear about this sooner? When Phoenix described to Maya why he became a lawyer, it would have made sense for him to mention that her sister saved him from a murder rap. T&T even goes so far as to give Gumshoe extra dialogue about how the police all knew and were fond of Mia - which of course played no part in his decision to charge her sister with murder.

Edgeworth has had a ton of his backstory dropped on us by now. Franziska's backstory is pretty similar, and there is plenty for a story to work with to develop them without having to go backwards and *create* something new. As cute as it would be to see a little Fran, I'd rather just see the art and not have to relive her childhood.
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Croik wrote:
Aaaaaanyway, back on track...

I really don't want to see a flashback case. Sorry :(


Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, mea maxima, maxima culpa. I'm so sorry, Croik. I didn't mean to get sidetracked...
...I'm pretty much on the same page here: retcons can really stink. Young Franziska and Edgeworth art would be lovely, but an entire case is a bit much.
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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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*quotes Croik*

That pretty much sums up the entire flashback case discussion.

We now know that Franny first appears in case two, and judging by JapaneseGIRL's translation of the screenshots we know that she was supposed to still be in America (Germany). So why did she come back? Do you think she's related to the case somehow, or the victim? I can't imagine her returning without a good reason (read: Chance to lord over Edgeworth), so my guess is that either whatever happens in the second case is relevant to her interests or Edgeworth does something in case one that warrants her coming back.
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...That came across as me wanting to see Loli porn of Franny, or it to even be implied? No, no thank you, I just think a young Franny would be freaking adorable. :yuusaku:
Ah, but don't worry about it, it's really no big deal, I ran that risk when I used the word "Loli", in place of the much safer young or little.

Anyways, while I don't know exactly where this fits into the timeline the whole "Around T&T" thing makes it seemed squeezed in to me anyway, but I definitly understand what you all are saying.

I personally would like to figure out just how VK got a hold of Edgey anyways he was away for months Edgey's future should have been decided by the courts when he got back, as well how much of his turn to the darkside was VK and how much was just DL-6, but because that was covered already it doesn't need to be put in really... :yogi: But Franziska and Edgeworth's realtionship really hasn't been dealved into how it came to be that way, and while I think it would be worth exploring given bith their natures it's not something you'd be inclined to find out as Phoenix Wright, let alone Apollo. But if you put the two of them together including one as a staring role, their past does seem like a logical thing to explore, and I think this is the first time we have had good cause to bring it up.
I think a lot of the T&T retcons were kind of half-assed and they didn't even bother to fix them up in the re-release, but I feel like this is stuff that we have already established as happening and filling in the details wouldn't change anything like it did with the whole Feeny on trial thing. Maybe a full case is overboard, but the idea of running around as Little Edgeworth and getting whipped my a todler Franny just super awesome (or seeing her whip others, ether way). ^.^
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Actually Gumshoe's dialogue about Mia in T&T isn't retconning at all--you get a response that's conceptually exactly the same if you present her autopsy report to him in 1-2 [[sorry]] talk to him about Mia a second time (right down to him claiming to have something in his eye).
But that has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

I don't think a flashback case should be necessary to revealing the relationship between Edgeworth and Franziska. Though I usually love backstory (often more the story itself, go priorities!), I feel like a flashback case would just be really, really awkward in GK. :ron:
I'd just like to see them interacting more. I liked her "tough love" attitude towards him in 3-5 a lot.
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DarknessLord wrote:
...That came across as me wanting to see Loli porn of Franny, or it to even be implied? No, no thank you, I just think a young Franny would be freaking adorable. :yuusaku:
Ah, but don't worry about it, it's really no big deal, I ran that risk when I used the word "Loli", in place of the much safer young or little.

Anyways, while I don't know exactly where this fits into the timeline the whole "Around T&T" thing makes it seemed squeezed in to me anyway, but I definitly understand what you all are saying.

I personally would like to figure out just how VK got a hold of Edgey anyways he was away for months Edgey's future should have been decided by the courts when he got back, as well how much of his turn to the darkside was VK and how much was just DL-6, but because that was covered already it doesn't need to be put in really... :yogi: But Franziska and Edgeworth's realtionship really hasn't been dealved into how it came to be that way, and while I think it would be worth exploring given bith their natures it's not something you'd be inclined to find out as Phoenix Wright, let alone Apollo. But if you put the two of them together including one as a staring role, their past does seem like a logical thing to explore, and I think this is the first time we have had good cause to bring it up.
I think a lot of the T&T retcons were kind of half-assed and they didn't even bother to fix them up in the re-release, but I feel like this is stuff that we have already established as happening and filling in the details wouldn't change anything like it did with the whole Feeny on trial thing. Maybe a full case is overboard, but the idea of running around as Little Edgeworth and getting whipped my a todler Franny just super awesome (or seeing her whip others, ether way). ^.^


You, like, just summed up my every thought about things being said in this thread.

I started a discussion in the comments of a Youtube video once about how much Edgey's turn to the darkside was VK and how much was DL-6. We tentatively decided that Edgey still would have become a prosecutor if he hadn't been adopted by von Karma, but he wouldn't have been so heartless or focused on perfection. But there is great room for argument there. Really, it's not the kind of thing you can really 'decide' and come to the correct answer with, because the game just hasn't given us the real answer. XD Which is why they need to. I'm in it for the flashback art, too. :-D
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DarknessLord wrote:
...That came across as me wanting to see Loli porn of Franny, or it to even be implied? No, no thank you, I just think a young Franny would be freaking adorable. :yuusaku:
Ah, but don't worry about it, it's really no big deal, I ran that risk when I used the word "Loli", in place of the much safer young or little.


Mea Culpa, I'm so sorry about that whole debacle. I wonder if I'll ever be able to get my head off the ground after this...
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DarknessLord wrote:
I personally would like to figure out just how VK got a hold of Edgey anyways he was away for months Edgey's future should have been decided by the courts when he got back, as well how much of his turn to the darkside was VK and how much was just DL-6, but because that was covered already it doesn't need to be put in really... :yogi:

The games never mention Edgey having any relatives besides his father, so he was probably just being bounced around in foster care until he was adopted by Karma. But the words 'adopted' or 'fostered' are never used in the games, so VK probably just kidnapped Miles like Layton kidnapped Luke. True, DL-6 was already covered in PWAA, but it and Karma's effect on his life could easily be expanded on. We originally heard Edgeworth's story from Phoenix's point of view, and it's likely that there's much more to it than that. DL-6 robbed him of his trust in others, and his life with Manfred reinforced that, but that's far too cut and dry to be the whole story.

Anyway, that's not really on topic. I'm still curious as to why Franziska returns to Japan/America :yuusaku:
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Hmm... I'm curious about the reason she returned too... But with the current information that we have now, it's quite hard to guess her motive of returning to Japan/America. :yuusaku:

But, I have a feeling that it might be related to the last case... Since the producers mentioned during TGS that she will be taking on a major role in the game. Therefore, there has to be some reason for her to stay in Japan/America until the end of the game. Besides, it would totally wreck the suspense if the game revealed her true reason for returning early in the game...
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Marshmello wrote:
True, DL-6 was already covered in PWAA, but it and Karma's effect on his life could easily be expanded on. We originally heard Edgeworth's story from Phoenix's point of view, and it's likely that there's much more to it than that. DL-6 robbed him of his trust in others, and his life with Manfred reinforced that, but that's far too cut and dry to be the whole story.


But unless it's expanded on in the context of a new case, backstory and explanation just don't belong. You can't just sit the gamer down and have a story time about Edgeworth dealing with Karma as a 9 near old, it has to connect to something going on currently.

It would be really cute to see Edgey and Franny as kids, but I would not want to solve the mystery of the cookie jar, if you know what I mean. :gregory:

Buuuut maybe they could do something like a witness or a defense attorney from one of Franziska's older cases (or even her first case) shows up in the context of a new mystery. That would give them an excuse to talk about Franziska's early career, and what Miles relationship with her was like at that time.
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Croik wrote:
It would be really cute to see Edgey and Franny as kids, but I would not want to solve the mystery of the cookie jar, if you know what I mean. :gregory:


That would be really hilarious and lame at the same time.


Croik wrote:
Buuuut maybe they could do something like a witness or a defense attorney from one of Franziska's older cases (or even her first case) shows up in the context of a new mystery. That would give them an excuse to talk about Franziska's early career, and what Miles relationship with her was like at that time.


I think that could be very interesting.
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Croik wrote:
Marshmello wrote:
True, DL-6 was already covered in PWAA, but it and Karma's effect on his life could easily be expanded on. We originally heard Edgeworth's story from Phoenix's point of view, and it's likely that there's much more to it than that. DL-6 robbed him of his trust in others, and his life with Manfred reinforced that, but that's far too cut and dry to be the whole story.


But unless it's expanded on in the context of a new case, backstory and explanation just don't belong. You can't just sit the gamer down and have a story time about Edgeworth dealing with Karma as a 9 near old, it has to connect to something going on currently.

It would be really cute to see Edgey and Franny as kids, but I would not want to solve the mystery of the cookie jar, if you know what I mean. :gregory:


A bad framing device can ruin everything. Can't you just imagine Edgeworth and Franziska sitting by the fireplace and going "Don't you remember the time when..." And then the screen goes white around the edges while the flashback plays? And then cut to both of them just looking up at nothing at all with the cheesiest smiles on their faces during the period between flashbacks?
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Crowley wrote:
A bad framing device can ruin everything. Can't you just imagine Edgeworth and Franziska sitting by the fireplace and going "Don't you remember the time when..." And then the screen goes white around the edges while the flashback plays? And then cut to both of them just looking up at nothing at all with the cheesiest smiles on their faces during the period between flashbacks?


It would be like every joke premise on Family Guy.
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Haha, rather cheezy, no?

Unless...You know how Edgeworth had his big change of heart, Well it all started at one Christmas night, when he was visited by 3 Spirits.
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Ceres wrote:
Haha, rather cheezy, no?

Unless...You know how Edgeworth had his big change of heart, Well it all started at one Christmas night, when he was visited by 3 Spirits.


Dammit! Now I want to see a fic where Edgeworth is Ebenezer Scrouge.
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Lunaria42 wrote:
Ceres wrote:
Haha, rather cheezy, no?

Unless...You know how Edgeworth had his big change of heart, Well it all started at one Christmas night, when he was visited by 3 Spirits.


Dammit! Now I want to see a fic where Edgeworth is Ebenezer Scrouge.


PFFT. Me too. Who would be the 3 spirits? Phoenix would have to be one of them. XD
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crouton wrote:
Lunaria42 wrote:
Ceres wrote:
Haha, rather cheezy, no?

Unless...You know how Edgeworth had his big change of heart, Well it all started at one Christmas night, when he was visited by 3 Spirits.


Dammit! Now I want to see a fic where Edgeworth is Ebenezer Scrouge.


PFFT. Me too. Who would be the 3 spirits? Phoenix would have to be one of them. XD


Since this is Franziska's topic, she would be one as well.
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Lunaria42 wrote:
crouton wrote:
Lunaria42 wrote:
Dammit! Now I want to see a fic where Edgeworth is Ebenezer Scrouge.


PFFT. Me too. Who would be the 3 spirits? Phoenix would have to be one of them. XD


Since this is Franziska's topic, she would be one as well.


Phoenix, Franny and... Larry maybe? XD Or Gumshoe?
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XD I might write this if I get the time.
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Larry.

Larry is the first one, cos he's nutty.

Phoenix is the Past ghost, because him and Edgey go way back.

Franziska is the Future ghost, because she'll whip him to doom.
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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
XD I might write this if I get the time.


Yay!! :edgy:

Prosecutor Manella wrote:
Larry.

Larry is the first one, cos he's nutty.

Phoenix is the Past ghost, because him and Edgey go way back.

Franziska is the Future ghost, because she'll whip him to doom.


Hey, those are good ideas. ^_^
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Re: Franziska in Gyakuten KenjiTopic%20Title
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PCHOOO

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No no no no. Manfred = Ghost of Christmas Future. :karma:
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Hahahahaha! Thank you Vickinator!

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The first chapter is now up. I'm probably going to make Franziska the ghost of Christmas past, Phoenix the ghost of Christmas present, and Mia the ghost of Christmas future. Manfred will be the very first ghost, the one in all the chains. Can't remember his real name right now. XD
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I know, Wright?

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Croik wrote:
Marshmello wrote:
True, DL-6 was already covered in PWAA, but it and Karma's effect on his life could easily be expanded on. We originally heard Edgeworth's story from Phoenix's point of view, and it's likely that there's much more to it than that. DL-6 robbed him of his trust in others, and his life with Manfred reinforced that, but that's far too cut and dry to be the whole story.


But unless it's expanded on in the context of a new case, backstory and explanation just don't belong. You can't just sit the gamer down and have a story time about Edgeworth dealing with Karma as a 9 near old, it has to connect to something going on currently.

It would be really cute to see Edgey and Franny as kids, but I would not want to solve the mystery of the cookie jar, if you know what I mean. :gregory:
Crowley wrote:
A bad framing device can ruin everything. Can't you just imagine Edgeworth and Franziska sitting by the fireplace and going "Don't you remember the time when..." And then the screen goes white around the edges while the flashback plays? And then cut to both of them just looking up at nothing at all with the cheesiest smiles on their faces during the period between flashbacks?

:nick: That really isn't what I meant at all. Didn't we just finish the discussion on flashbacking = bad?

ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Manfred will be the very first ghost, the one in all the chains. Can't remember his real name right now. XD

You mean Jacob Marley?
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Marshmello wrote:
You mean Jacob Marley?


Yes. XD I remembered that on a walk today. I was so mad about forgetting it. For some reason all I could think of was Bob Crachit. "No, he's alive...wait! It's Jacob Marley!" XD
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Marshmello wrote:
Croik wrote:
Marshmello wrote:
True, DL-6 was already covered in PWAA, but it and Karma's effect on his life could easily be expanded on. We originally heard Edgeworth's story from Phoenix's point of view, and it's likely that there's much more to it than that. DL-6 robbed him of his trust in others, and his life with Manfred reinforced that, but that's far too cut and dry to be the whole story.


But unless it's expanded on in the context of a new case, backstory and explanation just don't belong. You can't just sit the gamer down and have a story time about Edgeworth dealing with Karma as a 9 near old, it has to connect to something going on currently.

It would be really cute to see Edgey and Franny as kids, but I would not want to solve the mystery of the cookie jar, if you know what I mean. :gregory:
Crowley wrote:
A bad framing device can ruin everything. Can't you just imagine Edgeworth and Franziska sitting by the fireplace and going "Don't you remember the time when..." And then the screen goes white around the edges while the flashback plays? And then cut to both of them just looking up at nothing at all with the cheesiest smiles on their faces during the period between flashbacks?

:nick: That really isn't what I meant at all. Didn't we just finish the discussion on flashbacking = bad?

...I'm sorry, I'm really really sorry. I was just trying to agree with Croik, sorry for offending your opinions. I'm so sorry.
Can someone try to give me advice on not making every person on the forum think I'm irritating? I'm really bad at this..
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Hahahahaha! Thank you Vickinator!

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Crowley wrote:
...I'm sorry, I'm really really sorry. I was just trying to agree with Croik, sorry for offending your opinions. I'm so sorry.
Can someone try to give me advice on not making every person on the forum think I'm irritating? I'm really bad at this..


Awww, really, don't feel bad. I do it all the time. It doesn't seem to me like anyone's real irritated with you. Tone of voice can easily be misinterpreted over the internet. I obviously can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't think you're irritating. XD
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My OTP of OTP's. <3

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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Crowley wrote:
...I'm sorry, I'm really really sorry. I was just trying to agree with Croik, sorry for offending your opinions. I'm so sorry.
Can someone try to give me advice on not making every person on the forum think I'm irritating? I'm really bad at this..


Awww, really, don't feel bad. I do it all the time. It doesn't seem to me like anyone's real irritated with you. Tone of voice can easily be misinterpreted over the internet. I obviously can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't think you're irritating. XD


*echoes that sentiment*

I don't think you're irritating either. :edgy:
Thanks to .•°٭blinq٭°•. for the lovely sig. ♥
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Moving on up!

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Crowley wrote:
...I'm sorry, I'm really really sorry. I was just trying to agree with Croik, sorry for offending your opinions. I'm so sorry.
Can someone try to give me advice on not making every person on the forum think I'm irritating? I'm really bad at this..


You weren't intentionally trying to be mean or rude to anyone. It's the people that purposfully try to rain on another's parade with the intent to irk that are considered irriatating in my opinion.
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