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Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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How does the GS series--more specifically, GK (if you have played it)--stack up in terms of difficulty vis-à-vis the language itself? I'm a student (like many of us here), and I want to import the Limited Edition of GK while it's still available; moreover, I'll be in Japan when the English version launches, so playing in Japanese is almost my only choice, lest I wait until mid-May when I return.
At least I know the game uses kanji, making my life a lot easier, unlike my most beloved MOTHER 3. While the latter is undoubtedly my favorite game ever, it's much more difficult for a non-native speaker--let alone a mere student!--to get through in only hiragana.Thanks in advance! Or, perhaps, 宜しくお願いしま〜す。
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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If you know what I mean when I say that Edgeworth likes to use "-tamae" you'll probably be fine.
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Croik wrote:
Yes they use Kanji. If you're currently studying Japanese (in college?) I think a few semester will be plenty to get you through the game, though you will have to know some genre specific language (murder suspect, international crime, etc). GK especially didn't seem to have a variety of dialects to trip you up (unlike T&T) and the penalty system is lenient.
If you know what I mean when I say that Edgeworth likes to use "-tamae" you'll probably be fine.
If you know what I mean when I say that Edgeworth likes to use "-tamae" you'll probably be fine.
Cool, that's precisely what I was looking to find out about! Listening is probably my weakest area, if only because I don't have a lot of experience. (I did the first-year textbook on my own last summer from about July-August, so I did the second-year course at school this year, and I did a lot of outside work as well in order to make up for it.) I'll have Jisho.org on hand to help me with the genre-specific language, but hopefully kanji compounds will make it easy enough to understand. (I had to look up "murder suspect" because I didn't know "suspect," but I figured it had to have 疑 and end in either 者 or 人, and I immediately knew 国際犯罪.)
Haha, "-tamae" is so ミツルギらしい.
Also, you mentioned that T&T had a variety of dialects... Could you elaborate? I'm just curious, since I have no experience with the Japanese GS games.
And that's true, Stelman, but I would feel bad playing GK as a trial-and-error game of pure guesswork. I hope to enjoy it as much as possible by likewise understanding it as well as I can.
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Croik wrote:
In T&T Tigre speaks with a thick Kansai accent, which isn't toooo hard to get through, but the character I had the most trouble with was Atmey. He just talks...weird, not because of a dialect but because he makes no sense. When he's trying to sound smart most of what he says goes right over my head XD;; Then there's the usual people talking casual vs keigo vs slang.
Well, I'll be in Kyoto, so perhaps I'll pick up GS3 as a self-imposed "final exam" to see how much Kansaiben I've picked up over the year. XD Oh gosh... Atmey is so excessively verbose that I'm sure some of what he said in English went over my head.
It's interesting because, in thinking about it, I can kind of gauge who would be using what kind of speech / level of politeness when they talk, even though I've only played the English versions.I'm excited to play the game, though, and I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. Thanks again!
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
Mauz
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Mauz wrote:
I myself have a hard time with Kanji, and mainly revolve around Hiragana and Katakana. I bought GK so that I could read with it alongside my trusty online dictionary, so that I can learn as I play. I really need Kanji help, though. Also, why is the topic labeled Body, or Dou?
Seems we have the opposite problem, then!
I absolutely love learning kanji, and I'm working to have at least all of the Jouyou kanji (if not more) down by the end of the summer. And the どう you're thinking of is 胴 (torso), whereas I just meant どう as in "how (is it)?"
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
Mauz
Can someone perhaps recommend some strategies? I can help with Hiragana to those in need.
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Mauz wrote:
Yet another flaw in my studies: Multiple meanings ;_;
Can someone perhaps recommend some strategies? I can help with Hiragana to those in need.
Can someone perhaps recommend some strategies? I can help with Hiragana to those in need.
In terms of kanji, I'm doing Bonjinsha's Kanji Book series. There are two Basic volumes (both of which I have completed) and two Intermediate volumes (of which I am currently midway through the first). Having a kanji dictionary on-hand would be good, and the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary, while fairly basic, has served me very well thus far.
I think my problem is less with hiragana itself and just a lack of exposure to the language and thus a smaller vocabulary. For instance, I had no idea that どう was the word for "torso."
In terms of online resources, Denshi Jisho and Jim Breen's WWWJDIC have both served me well. I like using the latter first because they almost always have example sentences listed with the word or phrase in question, and context is crucial for learning new vocabulary. Conversely, the former has a much larger "catalog" of sentences for you to peruse, but they do not have sentences for quite a few words or phrases that I think are useful but are apparently not as commonly used. Thus, if you feel comfortable enough using a Japanese resource, try the goo one. The 国語辞書 is particularly useful in helping elucidate the subtle nuances that a word or compound holds, or at least in giving you a better idea of a word or compound's definition outside of a single English word.
EDIT @ Xian Long: Oh, that's awesome! I took a year of Chinese last year, but I've forgotten most of it, sadly... On the other hand, learning characters back then definitely helped in the long run!
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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I've been going through the first case by counting how many strokes are in each bit of kanji, looking them up individually online by number of strokes... and translating from that.
Takes forever, but I thiiiink I actually understand what they're saying.
Mind if I actually ask you just a general question that's totally not-game related, Plankton, pretty please? Or everyone else who knows this?
Could you explain to me how one uses Kanji dictionary? I've never learned how to look through it via stroke order ... I assume I have to learn the order for each individually, ya? Still, I don't quite get how it works.
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Also, while it isn't always easy to discern precisely which radicals / parts comprise a given kanji, Denshi Jisho has a feature by which you can look up a kanji by selecting its components. (WWWJDIC has a similar feature, as well.) It helps if you're a very visual learner and you like being able to see the various "pieces" (which is a useful way of learning kanji!), but the various pieces are likewise arranged by stroke count. So, while it can make things simpler, it's sometimes just another means to the same end--no more or less convenient than using a standard dictionary.
More relative to GK, I think that, given my lack of funds, I might have to settle for the game alone. ;_; It pains me to say that, but I think the LE is just not in the cards...
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Dictionary-Sonomama-Rakubiki-Nintendo-DS/dp/B000O2S9VQ
If you need help playing GK specificially of course you'd need two DS
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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I'll definitely be hanging around those sites, and the Kanji DS looks very, very beautiful in my eyes. : )
Thank you very much for your help, you two!!
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Ryu-kun wrote:
All Gyakuten games use very few kanji even compared to other (non-adult) games. Kenji actually uses a bit more difficult language (several 四字熟語 were used, some pretty heavy 敬語 etc.) but less regional dialects than the others, 大沢木 in GS1 & 2 also has a horrible 関西弁, and there were some characters using typical old man speak. Kenji is also a bit less heavy on genre specific words as there are no court scenes.
Wow, that was really insightful--thanks! Given the setting, I guess I just assumed that a game focusing (at least largely) on legal matters would naturally be filled with lots of esoteric 漢語 and 四字熟語, so it's interesting to hear that such is not the case. lol I didn't realize that 大沢木 spoke in 関西弁, but I just looked her up on C-R, and めちゃろん made me burst out laughing.
I actually really like 敬語, so I'm kind of looking forward to that portion. I'm not super-familiar with old-man speak, but I know of it and might be able to pick out a few things, like じゃ. Thanks for letting me know, though. I really appreciate it!
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Xian Long wrote:
i'm fluent in chinese and i've had one semester of japanese... a few more and i will be able to play GK, hopefully.
Actually, thanks to the use of kanji, you can probably play a bit right now. That is, if you're okay with not understanding every line fully, and progressing at snail's pace. I'm okay in Mandarin, and studied something like half a year of Japanese, so I'm speaking from experience here. =)
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Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Menelvir wrote:
Xian Long wrote:
i'm fluent in chinese and i've had one semester of japanese... a few more and i will be able to play GK, hopefully.
Actually, thanks to the use of kanji, you can probably play a bit right now. That is, if you're okay with not understanding every line fully, and progressing at snail's pace. I'm okay in Mandarin, and studied something like half a year of Japanese, so I'm speaking from experience here. =)
hooray for kanji!
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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Xian Long wrote:
Menelvir wrote:
Xian Long wrote:
i'm fluent in chinese and i've had one semester of japanese... a few more and i will be able to play GK, hopefully.
Actually, thanks to the use of kanji, you can probably play a bit right now. That is, if you're okay with not understanding every line fully, and progressing at snail's pace. I'm okay in Mandarin, and studied something like half a year of Japanese, so I'm speaking from experience here. =)
hooray for kanji!
Ha, yes indeed! All the effort I've put into learning Mandarin is paying off...
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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But yeah, the Kanji Sonomama thingy for the DS is awesome, helps me out when I can't understand some words. (Even the kana ones! :D)
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Croik wrote:
My best friend when it comes to kanji is the Kanji Dictionary on my NDS. Using the stylus you can actually draw out the kanji instead of looking it up radical by radical. A lot of my professional work has hand written kanji which is a serious pain sometimes, but in those cases just mimicing the scribble on my DS will pop up the right kanji!
http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Dictionary-Sonomama-Rakubiki-Nintendo-DS/dp/B000O2S9VQ
If you need help playing GK specificially of course you'd need two DSor a rom but just for Japanese in general this is great. The only downside is that you have to know at least the basics of stroke order for the game to recognize what you're writing.
http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Dictionary-Sonomama-Rakubiki-Nintendo-DS/dp/B000O2S9VQ
If you need help playing GK specificially of course you'd need two DS
The two-DS problem is a pain, though. And I've found it recognizes my complete fail at stroke order quite often -- whatever I'm aiming for won't be at the top of the list, but it'll be on there somewhere. (Too bad I'm such a slacker and haven't actually used it much, but whenever I have, it's been great.)
Re: Gyakuten Kenji in Japanese: どう？
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A regualr Japanese-English dictionary is probably also useful for the words in hiragana/katakana. I'll be looking for this game at the import game booth at Metrocon next weekend.
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