Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:59 pm

GentlemanGamer

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It's an interesting new mechanic, to be sure. It's a different way of interrogation, one that's primairly about the timing and strategy of the discussion as opposed to being evidence base.

What I like:

-Logic chess sequences are a little bit more fast-paced then the other gameplay mechanics the series has introduced
-Seems like a better way to overcome roadblocks in the investigation then multiple deus ex machina
-The music is catchy :edgey:

What I didn't like:

-It's WAY too easy; there's no real penalties for wrong answers other then time, and the timer only counts down at decision points. If you mess up, then just rinse and repeat.
-Certain points feel more like trial and error then anything else, as the proper 'strategy' is sometimes hard to figure out

Overall, I'd actually say it's one of the more enjoyable mechanics in the franchise, and it makes for a refreshing change of pace simply having a proper 'argument' to move the investigation forward rather then needing evidence for every single point. But that's just my opinion, what are you guys' thoughts?

"No one can change the past. The only thing we can do is strive to make up for our mistakes. Why must we make up for our mistakes, you ask? Because in so doing... we can find the way back to our path. And once we've found our path, we can move on from our past mistakes toward a brighter future."- Phoenix Wright

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:25 am

Going for Miles

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I pretty much agree with what you said. And yeah, love the music. It was a good idea for a new gameplay mechanic without having to be technical/borderline magical which set it apart from Mood matrix, Bracelet and Magatama. That way it didn't force itself into the story either, it was just a new way of getting people to spill the beans. All of those are kind of sneaky in a sense, but Logic chess feels more... intelligent than the others (as they're based on super abilities and stuff like that). It's hard for me to judge how it was using Logic chess as I haven't played the game myself, but I think they could have made it a bit more tricky; like choosing the best angle to approach the issue from rather than choosing between obviously right/wrong alternatives ("Hm, I wonder if this person will calm down if I call them a failure as a human being?"), and also a little more fluidity in how the conversation progresses, like, when you choose wrongly and the whole conversation goes back to a previous point, it makes the dialogue kind of weird. And wrong answers should have provided their own specific lines and not just a standard-wrong-dialogue. So, basically, I found it neat, and if they make a third AAI game I wouldn't mind having it reappear, especially as there's room for improvement. :phoenix:

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:24 am

GentlemanGamer

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GoingforMiles wrote:

I pretty much agree with what you said. And yeah, love the music. It was a good idea for a new gameplay mechanic without having to be technical/borderline magical which set it apart from Mood matrix, Bracelet and Magatama. That way it didn't force itself into the story either, it was just a new way of getting people to spill the beans. All of those are kind of sneaky in a sense, but Logic chess feels more... intelligent than the others (as they're based on super abilities and stuff like that). It's hard for me to judge how it was using Logic chess as I haven't played the game myself, but I think they could have made it a bit more tricky; like choosing the best angle to approach the issue from rather than choosing between obviously right/wrong alternatives ("Hm, I wonder if this person will calm down if I call them a failure as a human being?"), and also a little more fluidity in how the conversation progresses, like, when you choose wrongly and the whole conversation goes back to a previous point, it makes the dialogue kind of weird. And wrong answers should have provided their own specific lines and not just a standard-wrong-dialogue. So, basically, I found it neat, and if they make a third AAI game I wouldn't mind having it reappear, especially as there's room for improvement. :phoenix:

You're right, it WAS kind of neat as there weren't any super powers; Logic Chess wasn't a 'spiritual lie detector', 'super-good eyes which spotted twitches' or 'great hearing which sensed the tiniest fluctuations is emotion', nothing odd. It was just basically Miles' way of imagining the 'playing field' for their verbal confrontation, and all he was doing to 'battle' was use his words to trick the witnesses to spill the beans even though they didn't want to, so it certainly more intelligent then before. That said, I also agree with the points you made against it; unless you somehow manage to go through the whole thing without making a single mistake, then there's not really much fluidity in the convo, and as of case 3 there hasn't been any 'hard' Logic Chess matches thus far. Still it HAS been a lot of fun, and I would love to see it incorporated if they ever made a GK3 :trucy:

"No one can change the past. The only thing we can do is strive to make up for our mistakes. Why must we make up for our mistakes, you ask? Because in so doing... we can find the way back to our path. And once we've found our path, we can move on from our past mistakes toward a brighter future."- Phoenix Wright

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:21 pm

Mirii-chan

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I found it a bit too easy (but then I think most of the AA gameplay is quite easy), but it was interesting. I liked the idea of gauging when to strike based on the characters reactions. I didn't feel it was implemented that well, though. At times, it was too obvious when to ask questions, and at other times I found it too hard, so basically just trial and error.

I can't remember what I thought of the music. I played it when it came out in Japanese, so it's been a while since. I'll probably have to play GK2 through again and pay more attention. :-P

I did always like the way Edgeworth said, "Checkmate!" at the end of every Logic Chess. :edgey:

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:10 pm

Going for Miles

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Makes me wonder what his "opponents" thought as they didn't see the board. I mean, if I had some secret or such and someone managed to drag it out of me and then said "Checkmate" I would think that person was rather cocky :edgey:

(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:28 pm

GentlemanGamer

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GoingforMiles wrote:

Makes me wonder what his "opponents" thought as they didn't see the board. I mean, if I had some secret or such and someone managed to drag it out of me and then said "Checkmate" I would think that person was rather cocky :edgey:

Well no one seems particularly happy after a 'game' of Logic Chess (save one possible exception in Case One), so they probably weren't thinking nice thoughts about Edgey regardless :trucy:

Even if they didn't though, the "Checkmate" would probably make them start; like you said, that's just something that SCREAMS of cockiness :edgey:

"No one can change the past. The only thing we can do is strive to make up for our mistakes. Why must we make up for our mistakes, you ask? Because in so doing... we can find the way back to our path. And once we've found our path, we can move on from our past mistakes toward a brighter future."- Phoenix Wright

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:09 am

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Compared to what was advertised, this one has to be the one I was most disappointed with of all gimmick mechanics. The chess motif was purely just for show and style; nothing like a proper intellectual game of chess. I suppose I could credit these "games" to be pretty darn easy because the opponents are just that predictable.

Yet, for all practical purposes in-game, it played its part beautifully, and was even more fitting for investigations than Revisualization was for summarizing cases in GS5. In fact, I thank Logic Chess for existing and making GK2 that much more enjoyable than its predecessor.

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Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:13 am

JesusMonroe

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Compared to what was advertised, this one has to be the one I was most disappointed with of all gimmick mechanics. The chess motif was purely just for show and style; nothing like a proper intellectual game of chess. I suppose I could credit these "games" to be pretty darn easy because the opponents are just that predictable.

Yet, for all practical purposes in-game, it played its part beautifully, and was even more fitting for investigations than Revisualization was for summarizing cases in GS5. In fact, I thank Logic Chess for existing and making GK2 that much more enjoyable than its predecessor.

Now excuse me as I go look for localized entertainment media references.

It always bothered me that the "Wait and See" option resulted in the opponent still talking. In real life, it would just result in awkward staring

To "fix" Logic Chess, I have a few steps:

1. Make each wrong dialogue option result in different dialogue and not standard failure dialogue
2. Make the timer run while people are talking OR make it so losing logic chess doesn't result in one penalty. Make losing it losing the game to ramp up the tension
3. ONLY FILL THE TIMER UP PARTIALLY AFTER EACH PIECE IS DESTROYED. Make it like Psyche-Locks
4. Play the "endgame" music when the timer is at the halfway point. Get the blood pumping

And a little off-topic, but I hope revisualization in GS6 has more branching paths. So, if you choose the wrong option at the beginning, you have to continue down the wrong train of logic until you decide to "abandon" it. Following the wrong train until the end will result in a penalty or a loss in time (oh yeah, give it a timer like logic chess)

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:10 pm

linkenski

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I liked the chess theme because it fits Edgeworth, but I thought the gameplay itself had little to do with chess and it felt too much like just trial and error. There is the rule of knowing reading the behavior of the guy you're interrogating but it was poorly executed because Edgeworth spells out what you should be looking out for in the beginning of every Logic Chess segment.

I thought it was fine, but it didn't feel that satisfying to beat it IMO

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Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:22 pm

Smithee

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For its debut, it does okay.

But it definitely needs some polishing.

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:07 am

Lone

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While I did enjoy these segments, I do agree with the OP in that they were too easy. Until I found out how little you got punished for the timer running out, I thought it'd result in an instant game over, resulting in some intense first rounds. But once the tension wore off, it was still cool to be Edgeworth getting people to spill the beans and intimidating them I guess, like we've seen him do often before. From a gameplay perspective, it just became a little thing to spice things up every once in a while, and I can appreciate for even just that.

Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:28 pm

Planetbox

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I thought Logic Chess was pretty fun, but it did need a large penalty for failing, because it was pretty much impossible to lose it. I also wish the incorrect options has different dialogue, because some of them were pretty funny.

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Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:42 am

MBr

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Personally, I think after the cross-examination mechanic, Logic Chess is the second best mechanic. It's essentially a more intricate method of pressing, Edgeworth-style.
It could be more difficult, though. What is it with new machinics and no penalties (looking at you, Mood Matrix)?

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Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:23 pm

Cesar Zero

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Planetbox wrote:

I also wish the incorrect options has different dialogue, because some of them were pretty funny.

I completely agree with this. It is really disappointing how some of the dialogue choices are things like saying the person you are talking to is the victim, but the failure conversations are the same no matter what you choose.

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Re: Thoughts on Logic Chess?

Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:38 am

Southern Corn

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Bigger penalties,more optional dialogue;y'all said it best. Logic Chess has about as much to do with Chess as Edgeworth's totally hip and new clothes. My thoughts on each induvidual one though:

Case 1 (Nicole)-Easy,but it should be.
Case 1 (Huang)-A bit trickier,because he doesn't yield as easily. Here you start to get the flow of the gameplay. Easy on replay though.
Case 2 (Elbird)-Has a couple of tricky bits,but still easy.
Case 2 (Sahwit)-Really? Two of these in pretty much quick succession? This one is a bit harder than Elbird's,and I'd consider its difficulty moderate.
Case 3 (Larry)-...Really? Definitely one of the easiest in the game. Just have to keep waiting,and waiting,and waiting,and waiting,and waiting...
Case 3 (Gustavia)-Definitely one of the more time consuming ones. Mostly moderate in difficulty,but I'm so darn tired of that surprise animation.
Case 4 (Lotta)-This one was actually really close for me. Mainly because the timer was going down super fast.
Case 4 (Blaise)-One of THE hardest,period. I like how the faster version of the already pretty intense Logic Chess theme comes into play here and also that the wrong answer throughout most of it is actually the last thing you need to do. And dang,Blaise is tough. He's only really surprised once,right at the end.
Case 5 (Courtney)-Pretty simple,but gets a few surprises on me.
Case 5 (Sebastian)-Really? Another one right after that? Anyway,this is definitely the best one. Very fun,and I like how you're actually consoling Sebastian instead of breaking him further.