The general impressions/playthrough thread : Themis Legal Academy (GS5)

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:35 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1637

I think just in general in all of Eshiro and Takeshi's games I've noticed several times where I felt deja-vu, so maybe it's just because they need to loosen their grip on AA's legacy and Shu Takumi's ideas that were established and instead try something of their own. As much as I dsliked the premise of the whale DLC case, it was still a fresh little idea... had it not been for two major annoyances:

Spoiler: 1)

Spoiler: 2)

And in AAI-4 they used the "But he was left-handed" trope again. In GS5 case 1 uses several ideas from across 4-3 and 2-1.

I've only been playing AAI2 since the fan-translation patch released recently so I can't say for sure about that one yet but to me it seems like a tendency of the GK team.

You can probably tell I'm biased to be as if against Takeshi Yamazaki being the writer. I'd rather have some Ace Attorney than no Ace Attorney at all, but if the future of the series lies in his hands and he keeps showing how he lacks creativity in regards to certain contradictions and scenario designs I'd rather they found a new writer entirely or got Shu Takumi back (if he wants to)

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:30 am

Sligneris

Gender: None specified

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Posts: 1155

Ugh... Seeing all the comments I can't help but to feel people are overly critical when it comes to canon games and slightly too lenient and incredibly easy to satisfy when it comes to fan projects

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:54 am

TheDimensionofTime

Levi x Tide detergent OTP

Gender: Male

Location: In the Scout Regiment

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:34 am

Posts: 245

Bad Player wrote:

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

IMO, this is one of my favorite game mechanics presented in this series, along side of mob trials.

I like the idea of the Thought Route, but I felt the fact that there's only two (occasionally three) options and no penalties for wrong answers severely weakened it.

Seriously? No reprecussions? So the defense attorneys don't lose trail of thought, but Edgeworth, an attorney with the most trials in his history, can and lose the case? Wow.

"Girl, shut up and drink my spiked coffee." - Godot Ackerman

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:20 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Sligneris wrote:

Ugh... Seeing all the comments I can't help but to feel people are overly critical when it comes to canon games and slightly too lenient and incredibly easy to satisfy when it comes to fan projects

Difference of standards taken to the next level, to put it bluntly.

fourtrass wrote:

Bad Player wrote:

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

IMO, this is one of my favorite game mechanics presented in this series, along side of mob trials.

I like the idea of the Thought Route, but I felt the fact that there's only two (occasionally three) options and no penalties for wrong answers severely weakened it.

Seriously? No reprecussions? So the defense attorneys don't lose trail of thought, but Edgeworth, an attorney with the most trials in his history, can and lose the case? Wow.

I prefer to think of it as Edgeworth puts more of his ego on the line if he gets something wrong. (Then again, some of the cases he solves are pretty darn simple to put together...) Everyone in court always looks down on the defense attorneys anyway.

Anyway, that's no reason to dislike the Thought Route.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:55 am

Bad Player

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6932

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Anyway, that's no reason to dislike the Thought Route.

Yes it is... The cases already tend to be pretty easy to solve. Removing penalties takes away any semblance of difficulty there was. If there's no penalties, why bother making me choose anyway? After all, it makes literally no difference what choice I make, since I'll get to the correct one sooner or later with absolutely no negative repercussions just by checking every answer.

A big factor is that the Thought Route immediately tells you when you made a mistake, rather than waiting until the end. If it waited until the end, I supposed it'd be acceptable, since there would be 16+ possible answers and it would take a while to brute force it. But when it corrects me immediately? It feels like the interactivity is there for the sake of just having me do something while the game solves and elaborates on its own, not to have me actually solve the case.

Honestly, I feel like it's a bit deceiving to tout Thought Route as its own system or segment or something. It's literally nothing more than regular multiple-choice questions, except without penalties for wrong answers and with fancier graphics.

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:09 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Even then, that's not a place to set increased difficulty. The sequences may appear close to the end of the case, but there was never a rule that the end of a case has to have the most difficult questions. Besides, if the Routes happen inside the attorneys' own heads, how and - more specifically - why would they penalize themselves? The penalty bar is applied by the judge and/or prosecutor. (As for the Psyche-lock sequences, since there are so few of them in this game, it wouldn't have mattered in the long run.)

If this game could have been more difficult, it should have expanded on the investigation segments. I felt that they were too simple and straightforward. I literally had to put the actual investigation on hold to examine random things on the screen, as opposed to accidentally clicking on things because I thought they'd have at least some importance.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:19 am

Bad Player

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6932

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Even then, that's not a place to set increased difficulty. The sequences may appear close to the end of the case, but there was never a rule that the end of a case has to have the most difficult questions. Besides, if the Routes happen inside the attorneys' own heads, how and - more specifically - why would they penalize themselves? The penalty bar is applied by the judge and/or prosecutor. (As for the Psyche-lock sequences, since there are so few of them in this game, it wouldn't have mattered in the long run.)

The same way Logic in GK gave you penalties :P

Quote:

If this game could have been more difficult, it should have expanded on the investigation segments. I felt that they were too simple and straightforward. I literally had to put the actual investigation on hold to examine random things on the screen, as opposed to accidentally clicking on things because I thought they'd have at least some importance.

Couldn't both Thought Routes AND investigations have been more difficult? :yogi:

(But I agree, GS5 investigations are waaaay too straightforward. I miss the old style, where it was open and I felt like I was actually investigating.)

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:05 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Bad Player wrote:

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Even then, that's not a place to set increased difficulty. The sequences may appear close to the end of the case, but there was never a rule that the end of a case has to have the most difficult questions. Besides, if the Routes happen inside the attorneys' own heads, how and - more specifically - why would they penalize themselves? The penalty bar is applied by the judge and/or prosecutor. (As for the Psyche-lock sequences, since there are so few of them in this game, it wouldn't have mattered in the long run.)

The same way Logic in GK gave you penalties :P

That is one game mechanic I never fell in love with. People make mistakes in logic all the time, but as long as they don't present that mistake like it's a fact, they won't be penalized in any way. (I admit that I often got the wrong matches and lost quite a few truth-bar points.) At times, I felt the need to reach through the screen and strangle the guy.

Quote:

If this game could have been more difficult, it should have expanded on the investigation segments. I felt that they were too simple and straightforward. I literally had to put the actual investigation on hold to examine random things on the screen, as opposed to accidentally clicking on things because I thought they'd have at least some importance.

Couldn't both Thought Routes AND investigations have been more difficult? :yogi:

(But I agree, GS5 investigations are waaaay too straightforward. I miss the old style, where it was open and I felt like I was actually investigating.)

Certainly, but if these sequences were another area to increase difficulty, it'd lose some of the effect of the "review". I understand playing through a case all at once would make the Route seem pointless, but for others who take a long time to get through a single case, it comes as a great help, especially if they hadn't come back to the game in a while.
~~Plus, translating a language's quirks and playing through the game don't always mix.~~

By the way, brute forcing one's way through logic is never a pretty picture. Hence why the dev team decided against penalties outside of the court. However, they didn't make the mysteries themselves so difficult to solve, so brute forcing could apply at times.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:21 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1637

Luckily this [investigation mechanics] is also the biggest complaint the Japanese audience had about the game when you look at Amazon Japan, for instance.

Here's hoping that the Ace Attorney team recognizes the concern and makes it more open-ended in future games. Frankly all of the GK team's games have been way too linear. Ace Attorney misses those "A-ha!" moments if you aren't free to investigate all places.

Would anyone disagree that it would be a better solution to make all areas examinable, but it would be like in the Layton games for 3DS where it's just separate layers of 2D art that makes it feel 3-dimensional instead? The idea of the 3D investigation in GS5 was mostly to eliminate pixel hunting, but I had no issues with finding hidden things in Layton 5 for example, and I think it would work better for Ace Attorney. At least in case that they're limited to making a certain number of 3D areas.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:03 am

D.A. McCoy

Doing the drywall at the new McDonalds

Gender: Male

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:46 am

Posts: 1586

While the lack of total freedom in investigating (and by extension the lack of the most likely place for little fun references and stories to appear) is disheartening, I'm reserving judgement until I play it. Who knows, maybe they are able to put that stuff in somewhere else?

I used to have Sam Waterston as my avatar but photobucket added a watermark and also Law & Order has been cancelled for 10 years so it's time for me to move on.

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:17 am

Bad Player

1000% Knight

Gender: Male

Rank: Moderators

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm

Posts: 6932

Must be tough to be the developers.

Make the investigations open-ended, and people complain because of it.

Make the investigations closed and linear, and people complain because of it.

Maybe the solution would be to go back to the old open-ended system, but put in a system where you can get the investigation notes from your assistant in Wright Anything Agency so that people don't get stuck on some random event flag like before. Basically, you'd be able to choose if you played it open-ended or closed.

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:17 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

Racing through the sky like a Missile

Gender: Female

Location: LA, Japanifornia

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am

Posts: 6180

Bad Player wrote:

Must be tough to be the developers.

Make the investigations open-ended, and people complain because of it.

Make the investigations closed and linear, and people complain because of it.

Maybe the solution would be to go back to the old open-ended system, but put in a system where you can get the investigation notes from your assistant in Wright Anything Agency so that people don't get stuck on some random event flag like before. Basically, you'd be able to choose if you played it open-ended or closed.

That's exactly what the MEMO is for! I love that memo for all it's worth, but at the same time, the investigations in this game aren't so open in the first place. At certain times, I did have to refer to it because I lost track of what I was supposed to do (spamming the examine button where I could, for example); otherwise, it's usually left all alone. I'm one of those fans who prefer the openness of the previous games. I take my time with cases as much as I please, thank you.

To prevent this post from being almost all rant, I will say that the memo is the second best addition to the game in terms of game play. The best would be two save slots.

The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:01 am

Ash

迷探偵

Gender: None specified

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:27 am

Posts: 2319

*Looks at posts with a smile*

And people thought I was crazy when I blogged on gameplay mechanics in detective games. Soon the time will come...

"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:48 am

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1637

Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:

Bad Player wrote:

Must be tough to be the developers.

Make the investigations open-ended, and people complain because of it.

Make the investigations closed and linear, and people complain because of it.

Maybe the solution would be to go back to the old open-ended system, but put in a system where you can get the investigation notes from your assistant in Wright Anything Agency so that people don't get stuck on some random event flag like before. Basically, you'd be able to choose if you played it open-ended or closed.

That's exactly what the MEMO is for! I love that memo for all it's worth, but at the same time, the investigations in this game aren't so open in the first place. At certain times, I did have to refer to it because I lost track of what I was supposed to do (spamming the examine button where I could, for example); otherwise, it's usually left all alone. I'm one of those fans who prefer the openness of the previous games. I take my time with cases as much as I please, thank you.

To prevent this post from being almost all rant, I will say that the memo is the second best addition to the game in terms of game play. The best would be two save slots.

Exactly. Making investigations linear takes away a lot from the games, but since they implemented the memo function all they need to do is make investigations open-ended again. As tedious as they are, the games need those moments where you're stuck on where to look, but when you finally find it you go "a-ha" and that doesn't happen in the same way if you're only constrained to investigating the places where there is something to find. It makes the game seem semi-automatic.

I pray that they take this suggestion under consideration for GS6 :P

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:31 pm

Sligneris

Gender: None specified

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Posts: 1155

...Didn't GS1-4 always tell you here to go at the end of investigation phase?... I mean, now I hear about people getting lost...

Re: The general impressions/playthrough thread

Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:56 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

Gender: Male

Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm

Posts: 1637

Yeah they usually gave you hints on where to go, if you pay attention. But if you happen to skip that dialogue or doze off for a while (Which I end up doing when I play for too long) then there are times when you can't make them say it again if the dialogue was triggered by an event.

This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney