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Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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Spoiler:
Despite of their obvious differences Trucy always struck me as being the worse substitute for Maya (out of all the Maya clones or perky teens in the series) and I just don't like having her theme play over Maya's letter. I just find it to be completely unfitting. The letter isn't particularly long either so it would be even better without music than Trucy's theme.

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linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


In DD, Trucy's theme is also considered as Phoenix's non-objection theme. Despite the title of the soundtrack is Trucy Wright ~ Child of Magic 2013, music's in-game usage is often Phoenix's when the mood isn't so serious or heavy or something.

For me, I heard the music in livestream when there's no Trucy at all, and after this I gave up to think the music be her exclusive theme anymore. The music with letter perfectly fitted IMO when I first watched the scene, while thinking "Yeah, indeed it isn't Turnabout Sisters' theme, but listen, this is the Nick's theme. Who would ever nitpick with this?". Maybe the reason of your complain could be just reminding yourself strongly the music is Trucy's and putting in your opinion about Trucy in the whole scene.

And, come on, Trucy is not so bad. :minuki:
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Hm... I see the opinions are really divided... My opinion is shared in part with linkenski, as in I don't appreciate the soundtrack as a whole, but there are some little pearls you can find in it (although I do appreciate Iwadare's composing style, even though sometimes it can be disappointing...)

I guess I'll just make a list of the tracks I enjoy the most in Dual Destinies (Bolding the ones I specially like)
Spoiler: Track List
1-04 Cross Examination ~ Moderato 2013
1-14 Jingle ~ You Should Rest at a Time Like This
1-23 Investigation ~ Opening 2013
1-24 Detention Center ~ Elegy of the Bulletproof Glass
1-27 Simon Blackquill ~ Distorted Swordsmanship (This one specially)
1-28 Apollo Justice ~ A New Chapter of Trials! 2013
1-33 Lively People
1-34 Suspicious People (Neighbours from Hell anyone?)
1-38 Running Wild · Mood Matrix ~ Get A Grip On Yourself (Didn't like this one at first. Guess i enjoy it now)
1-40 Reminiscence ~ Wandering Heart
2-05 Investigation ~ Examination (It's hands down my favourite investigation theme from the series)
2-14 The Dark Age of Law
2-21 Arafune Aquarium ~ A Refreshing Sea
2-25 Reminiscence ~ Departure from Regret
2-26 Pursuit ~ Demo PV version Bonus Track) (Too bad it's not actually in the game :< )

Don't get me wrong, if a track is not in this list, it's not that it's not good (in my eyes), it's just that I didn't enjoy them particularly (yes, that includes those re-takes on old themes. Meh...)

Now about things I didn't like...

If there is one big disappointment for me in this soundtrack, it's how Iwadare failed in the execution of the transitioning back to the beginning of the song in most of his tracks. It felt excessively forced sometimes. For example in the Pursuit theme. I mean if you don't know how to handle switching between keys, then just don't -_-

Also Iwadare butchered the psyche-locks theme with the square synths. And...

I don't think the intro of the Core theme is very Core-y in the new sense of the theme, that is a very important find/Starting to unveil decisive facts about the case. It caches up at 0:20 but then gets lost again at 0:45... 1:01 has to be the best part for a Core theme ever though. I have VERY mixed feelings about this track. Also the bass line is so good.

Pursuit~Variation using exactly the same intro as Apollo justice's xP It's strange and a bit unfitting (considering the key we're currently in and the one we're used to in AJ)

Now my most hated track (And sorry if some of you like it), the Victory theme. To me, something VERY important in Victory themes is the part that says "Someone will never be the same" or "Someone has been scarred by this", but then resolves into an "Everything will be OK". Here's what I mean:

Spoiler: Other Victory tracks
Ace Attorney
(Oh by the way, this one is my favourite Victory track. It's so emotional, and manages to get the feel I mentioned throughout the entire track, not just a part. It's just so sad but happy at the same time.)
Justice for All
(This one ties in 1st place with the Ace Attorney one for me, for the same reasons. 0:51 if you want to get more specific)
Trials & Tribulations 0:38 or 1:00
(This theme I don't like very much, but meh...)
Apollo Justice 0:39
Ace Attorney Investigations 0:31
(This theme has to be the one that emphasizes this side of the track the most)
Gyakuten Kenji 2 0:35
(OK I take back what I said about AAI, this one does it even more xP)

Anyway you get my point, I was hugely disappointed by the DD Victory track, Iwadare says he understands the soundtrack, but he completely missed the point with this one... There's not a single part that makes me think "Aw someone is still sad"

But yeah, there are more things. You see I have very mixed feelings about this soundtrack...It's got some of my favourite themes in the entire series, but then it's got lots of these flaws that keep me from enjoying it to its fullest.
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Weird... I really like DD's Victory theme and don't really see anything of the sort.

...And that "saddish" part of Victory themes... Wouldn't it be 0:27 in DD's case?
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It's not sad at all, those chords in the background take all sadness from it. I get what Iwadare was trying to do, but he didn't manage to change the mood. That's what you get when you try to make the song too homogeneous.

The only relatively sad part is 0:44-0:47, barely 3 seconds
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You know, it's the first time I hear about any sadness in these tracks...
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...then you probably did not pay attention to the previous tracks xP It's one of the few times I can say it's not a matter of opinion here, that it actually is what the tracks are aiming for. (Well okay, I guess sadness is not the same for everyone, but you know what I mean)
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@I agree with Sligneris.

I forgot to mention that I was really disappointed with the credits song. It just fails as a medley, since there are no proper transitions between the three songs present in it, making it sound a bit...disjointed? I don't know, it's definitely not what I was expecting.
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How can you guys not see the hint of sadness in the victory themes? @_@
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Danielinhoni wrote:
...Also Iwadare butchered the psyche-locks theme with the square synths. And...

I don't think the intro of the Core theme is very Core-y in the new sense of the theme, that is a very important find/Starting to unveil decisive facts about the case. It caches up at 0:20 but then gets lost again at 0:45... 1:01 has to be the best part for a Core theme ever though. I have VERY mixed feelings about this track. Also the bass line is so good.

Wow, finally someone who agrees on this. I got butchered in the comments on youtube for saying the same thing O.o

I'm not very fond of how the transition to the loop worked in 'Apollo Justice ~ A New Chapter of Trials' either. It's a very sudden change of key, and it does feel forced too IMO. Overall I just think the DD OST is a bit of a mixed bag. You win some and lose some. Some tracks are really well done but others are just... rushed or something. And I keep LOL'ing over some of the endings he made for the tunes on the official soundtrack CD. Most of them has the *break* then *BAM*, quarter-note. They're so sudden.

I agree about the victory themes. In both PW:AA and JFA they had a bit of bittersweetness to them rather than being overly cheery without the slightest bit of subtlety... but then again. I haven't played DD myself yet. I've seen a lot of spoilers but I didn't watch some specific parts of the game on purpose because I want to experience the game for myself, so I can't tell whether or not the new victory theme fits. If every post-trial victory in the game is just pure feel-good and everyone is happy, then I don't have a problem with it... but if it's like in the past games where at least one of the characters feel like they've lost something, then it's gonna be pretty counterpoint-y.

I do like the one from AJ too though. It grew on me as most of the AJ soundtrack did.
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Last edited by linkenski on Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yeah, you expressed it better than I could. It's not really sad, it's just that it isn't 100% happy, it's bittersweet. Also I saw some people bashing your opinions on youtube, geez... As if people couldn't think what they want... ///said_the_guy_who_just_brute-forced_his_opinion
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Yeah. But then again, it's understandable that people love the franchise so much and maybe someone took it as me just bashing it for the sake of being a jerk or something. That wasn't my intention. I just check things out and sometimes I guess I have too high expectations.

But anyway, I wanna make a favorite-15 list too now that I have the soundtrack ripped to my PC.
Spoiler:
- Mood Matrix ~ Commence the Psychological Analysis!
- Illegal of Fate
(I renamed it Illegal Threat)
- Arafune Aquarium ~ A Refreshing Sea
- Investigation ~ Examination
- Apollo Justice ~ I’m Fine!
- Difficult People
- Simon Blackquill ~ Distorted Swordmanship
- Apollo Justice ~ The Start of a New Chapter!
- Phoenix Wright ~ Objection! 2013
- Gyakuten Saiban 5 - Trial
- Cross-Examination ~ Moderato 2013
- Cross-Examination ~ Allegro 2013
- Pursuit (Variation) ~ Keep Pressing On
- Logic Trinity
- Thought Route ~ Resonance of Synapse


I will say about the Gyakuten Saiban 5 - Trial track though; I've heard of rethorical/artistic pauses, but could Iwadare at least try to keep it consistant. The track has a great vibe, but it's just all over the place dynamically.
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Last edited by linkenski on Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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You guys should know better than paying too much attention to youtube users. Most of them never accept negative feedback on what they like, regardless of how well-argued it is.

Anyway, I can see shades of bittersweetness in the credit songs. But the victory themes...nah.
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I think sometimes people misinterpret it when I use the word "bittersweet". It's not like bittersweet as in a war-story or anything but more like there is a subtle, maybe tiny hint in the track that expresses that "though everything is okay now that we're on the other side, it was still quite an ordeal", It's more like getting warm and dry after being soaked by rain than it's something dramatic. As I said. It's subtle, barely prominent.
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linkenski wrote:
Yeah. But then again, it's understandable that people love the franchise so much and maybe someone took it as me just bashing it for the sake of being a jerk or something. That wasn't my intention. I just check things out and sometimes I guess I have too high expectations.


Yes, I believe this is the case. If I hadn't seen you on these forums, I would've thought you were just being a jerk with those comments, but since I've seen you on these forums I look at your comments in a completly different way. :phoenix:
That does not mean I agree with you, I'm one of those people who are like:
"Has ace attorney in the title? 10/10"

That obviously means I like pretty much every track, Except the Final Boss ones, for some reason.
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Heh, that's okay ;)
I'm more in the camp of "If it's as good as the first one then it's 10/10"

Incidentally I don't like T&T too much for some reason even though it's generally regarded as the best game in the series. My favorite two are PW:AA and AJ:AA, because they're both completely self-contained and the overarching plot is interesting in both of them IMO.
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I don't really like AJ, myself, actually ^^; There were just too many things handled badly, imo.
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Believe me I hated the game so much the first time I played it. Even the second time it pissed me off to see what they'd done to Phoenix just thinking "They could've made this game completely different or just have someone else than Phoenix be the forgotten legend" but I have to say especially case 2 and 4 has grown on me. I know 4-4 has a lot of narrative incoherence in terms of how events are linked and such but I still think the case is very interesting and the sense of mystery is just right on-spot. I love every part of that case.

...and while Apollo wasn't a deep character he did have some funny lines, though he was often a bit too immature in nature to my taste. It was easier to relate to Phoenix' inner monologue IMO.
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Hm... I would say I didn't like T&T either and argue why (although I don't have many reasons), but we'd be getting a bit out of topic :P
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I listened to the ending song JUST ONCE and now I have it on repeat. So awesome! :edgy:

Actually, I'm just trying to get this topic back on track but oh well... -_-
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nearsightedwaddledee wrote:
I listened to the ending song JUST ONCE and now I have it on repeat. So awesome! :edgy:

Actually, I'm just trying to get this topic back on track but oh well... -_-


I've been saving all the post-first case music (with the exception of Trucy's theme, Thought Route, and Psyche-Lock) for when I actually play, but even though the GS5 soundtrack has gotten a mixed reaction I haven't heard anything bad about the ending theme yet. I'm really looking forward to it.

Apparently it's like 10 minutes, too. That's awesome.
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Yeah it's kind of a mixed bag but so was JFA and PW:AA and AJ in my first impression. Now I love all those OSTs so maybe GS5's OST will grow on me as I play through the game. I sure hope so!
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Just to let you know guys, I'll probably be receiving this soundtrack in the mail from the video game music website I work for. It'll probably not be a couple of months though. Still, whenever I'm able to get my hands on it; expect a full review.
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Paul Sohn wrote:
linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


In DD, Trucy's theme is also considered as Phoenix's non-objection theme. Despite the title of the soundtrack is Trucy Wright ~ Child of Magic 2013, music's in-game usage is often Phoenix's when the mood isn't so serious or heavy or something.

For me, I heard the music in livestream when there's no Trucy at all, and after this I gave up to think the music be her exclusive theme anymore. The music with letter perfectly fitted IMO when I first watched the scene, while thinking "Yeah, indeed it isn't Turnabout Sisters' theme, but listen, this is the Nick's theme. Who would ever nitpick with this?". Maybe the reason of your complain could be just reminding yourself strongly the music is Trucy's and putting in your opinion about Trucy in the whole scene.

And, come on, Trucy is not so bad. :minuki:



I'd like to consider this "the Wright Theme" or something like that.
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That does make sense. It's like how Turnabout Sisters 2001/2002 ended up being the theme for Wright & Co. Law Offices.
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fourtrass wrote:
Paul Sohn wrote:
linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


In DD, Trucy's theme is also considered as Phoenix's non-objection theme. Despite the title of the soundtrack is Trucy Wright ~ Child of Magic 2013, music's in-game usage is often Phoenix's when the mood isn't so serious or heavy or something.

For me, I heard the music in livestream when there's no Trucy at all, and after this I gave up to think the music be her exclusive theme anymore. The music with letter perfectly fitted IMO when I first watched the scene, while thinking "Yeah, indeed it isn't Turnabout Sisters' theme, but listen, this is the Nick's theme. Who would ever nitpick with this?". Maybe the reason of your complain could be just reminding yourself strongly the music is Trucy's and putting in your opinion about Trucy in the whole scene.

And, come on, Trucy is not so bad. :minuki:



I'd like to consider this "the Wright Theme" or something like that.

Maybe "Wright Anything Agency ~ Magic and Law"
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More like "Wright Anything Agency ~ Magical Law" amirite? I am right.
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favorite song wandering heart and athenas objection theme and finally LAST PURSIT VERSION
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The Mood Matrix Allegro theme sounds tense and hyped up, like some kind of chase theme. And I would like to see an anime cutscene of that in some way.
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fourtrass wrote:
Paul Sohn wrote:
linkenski wrote:
The music was a complete mood killer in that scene... I mean, I'd almost rather they'd introduced Pearls first and then given Phoenix the letter, and THEN the Pearls music would play while Nick read it. It was so wrong to put Trucy's theme. It's like if Phoenix objected in court and suddently Apollo's theme would play.


In DD, Trucy's theme is also considered as Phoenix's non-objection theme. Despite the title of the soundtrack is Trucy Wright ~ Child of Magic 2013, music's in-game usage is often Phoenix's when the mood isn't so serious or heavy or something.

For me, I heard the music in livestream when there's no Trucy at all, and after this I gave up to think the music be her exclusive theme anymore. The music with letter perfectly fitted IMO when I first watched the scene, while thinking "Yeah, indeed it isn't Turnabout Sisters' theme, but listen, this is the Nick's theme. Who would ever nitpick with this?". Maybe the reason of your complain could be just reminding yourself strongly the music is Trucy's and putting in your opinion about Trucy in the whole scene.

And, come on, Trucy is not so bad. :minuki:




I'd like to consider this "the Wright Theme" or something like that.

I forgot about this. Now that I think about it, I think Trucy's theme was used for Phoenix a lot in GS4, too. So maybe the song placement works after all.

Now, I personally don't have any issues with Trucy (In fact I like the AJ cast the best) but I do tend to consider it her music based on how it was used in GS4. Like someone else said, I guess it should be considered more of an office theme or the "Wright Family" theme.
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Man, this reminds me of how the Skyes' theme is called Turnabout Sisters 2005.
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fourtrass wrote:
Man, this reminds me of how the Skyes' theme is called Turnabout Sisters 2005.


Oh wow, I forgot about that. Although I guess Lana and Ema were just as much "Turnabout Sisters" as Mia and Maya were.
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fourtrass wrote:
Man, this reminds me of how the Skyes' theme is called Turnabout Sisters 2005.

I am confused, is she called "Sykes" or "Cykes"? I know the pronunciation is "Sykes" but why "Sykes" instead of "Cykes"? (I have no idea why I take this so seriously.)
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BonnyMono wrote:
fourtrass wrote:
Man, this reminds me of how the Skyes' theme is called Turnabout Sisters 2005.

I am confused, is she called "Sykes" or "Cykes"? I know the pronunciation is "Sykes" but why "Sykes" instead of "Cykes"? (I have no idea why I take this so seriously.)


Hun, they're talking about Ema and Lana SKYE.
Not Athena CYKES
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Athena's last name has been officially spelled as Cykes due to the crescent :pencileraser: earing. If they spelled it Sykes, people might have been confused with the last name Skye. But, either the people at Capcom and those other sites who spelled it Sykes either need to get their glasses renewed, or they were just verbally told the name and they assumed it stared with S.
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FenrirDarkWolf wrote:
BonnyMono wrote:
fourtrass wrote:
Man, this reminds me of how the Skyes' theme is called Turnabout Sisters 2005.

I am confused, is she called "Sykes" or "Cykes"? I know the pronunciation is "Sykes" but why "Sykes" instead of "Cykes"? (I have no idea why I take this so seriously.)


Hun, they're talking about Ema and Lana SKYE.
Not Athena CYKES

Apparently, I misread the positioning of the "K" and "Y". Sincere apologies.
"Oh holy father, holy Brother, holy master... My sacred mission is at last complete. With these two hands, mankind is saved. I am your will made flesh. In your name, I give thanks."
Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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wild child

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Hello everyone long time lurker first time poster :D
My Gyakuten Saiban 5 OST has arrived its a masterpiece really..
but why are the tracks on the CD unnamed and genre, composer unknown?
i found the lack of info odd.
Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title

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skullz wrote:
Hello everyone long time lurker first time poster :D
My Gyakuten Saiban 5 OST has arrived its a masterpiece really..
but why are the tracks on the CD unnamed and genre, composer unknown?
i found the lack of info odd.


Hey, that's great that you got it! I'm getting mine from a video game music site that I write for in a few months. Can't wait to listen to it, even though I don't have a 3DS to actually play the game. :yogi:

As for your problem, it's probably because it's a Japanese CD with Japanese tracks and composers. Have you tried ripping it into iTunes? Also, if you need the tracklisting; the page is right here.
http://vgmdb.net/album/40637
Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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wild child

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TopHatProfessor1014 wrote:
As for your problem, it's probably because it's a Japanese CD with Japanese tracks and composers. Have you tried ripping it into iTunes? Also, if you need the tracklisting; the page is right here.
http://vgmdb.net/album/40637


:will: Yuss! track list in English thanks TopHatProf!!
Re: Dual Destinies Music DiscussionTopic%20Title
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Danielinhoni wrote:
...then you probably did not pay attention to the previous tracks xP It's one of the few times I can say it's not a matter of opinion here, that it actually is what the tracks are aiming for. (Well okay, I guess sadness is not the same for everyone, but you know what I mean)
That's interesting. Did any of the composers say the tracks were composed to add a hint of sadness to it before?

I'd like to argue that DD's subtle sadness starts at 0:06 seconds. I get this feeling of trying to cheer someone who's bummed out (not necessarily bittersweet, but still not in high spirits), that everything's going to be okay. Sure, that may not sound exactly like the previous ones, but I don't find the track to be overly happy.

Anyway, I do love this soundtrack. Thought Route, the pursuit themes, the mellow version of Apollo's theme, and plenty more.

One thing I noticed about the Cross-Examination Allegro track is that it doesn't have any additional notes to distinguish it from the Moderato one, which is usually done for intensifying (when you're digging deeper into the truth during trial), one thing that makes the Allegro tracks unique besides the tempo and beats. I have to admit, that small difference is a little disappointing because I'm not as immersed in it as the other Allegro tracks. Despite that, I think they're well-composed and I enjoy them. Just thought that it was an interesting choice. Thoughts?
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