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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:44 pm
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Bad Player

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FINISHED~

I want to reply to lots of stuff people have said in here, but...... ^^"

Spoiler: GK2 reference (no GK2 story spoilers)
I kinda wish we had just gotten one giant case 4. Ah well. I started suspecting Ban near the end of case 4. It wasn't really strong... more of a "well, I guess he could be the killer." I didn't think it was any more likely until we got the security footage of Phantom, when I figured/guessed that Ban's gloves were to hide the wound from 7 years ago... Kinda disappointed/surprised that didn't come up. (Also, mystery genre tropes... When you have an established detective and then get a new one...!)

Like Ash said, this felt a lot like a combination of previous AA cases. Especially the SL-9 section of 1-5. (I figured it was going to come to that when we saw Kokone's flashbacks at the beginning of case 1, tho.) Even the "villain steals the protagonist's features" thing was already done in GK2. I'm also disappointed that we never got to see Phantom's face (although I understand why they did that).

The motive also seemed pretty weak. Killing Aoi, stopping HAT, trying to get the research on him, that all made sense... But it all stemmed from Mari's murder, which was never really explained. (And killing her because of the research she doesn't make much sense since she... already did the research and everything.)


Anyway, going to save the rest of my thoughts to the general game threads.



Btw Ash, IIRC in the case 2 thread you said there was a clue in there about the overarching plot... What was it, exactly?
Spoiler:
I imagine it would have been something about Ban's identity, but... I can't quite remember anything specifically.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:16 pm
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Spoiler:
Case two had the Great Kyuubi mask acting as an identity marker, as well as the 'invisibility' rules for Tenma Tarou. Case five mirrored the trope, with the tags functioning as an identity marker, as well as a set of rules of what Ponta can detect as a person (i.e. how a person can be there, been seen by people, and still be 'invisible').

Edit: yes, it may seem a bit vague, but I mainly write about these kind of things, so I make these kind of connections ^^'
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:31 pm
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Ash, さすがだな・・・・

Also, one other thing...
Spoiler:
Did they ever explain what happened to Polly's eye? After all, he had the bandage on his eye in case 4, before the bomb in the courtroom...
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:40 pm
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Bad Player wrote:
Also, one other thing...
Spoiler:
Did they ever explain what happened to Polly's eye? After all, he had the bandage on his eye in case 4, before the bomb in the courtroom...


Spoiler:
I think he said he had to cover his eye, because he kept reacting to Kokone
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineSuspect Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:48 pm
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Ash wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Also, one other thing...
Spoiler:
Did they ever explain what happened to Polly's eye? After all, he had the bandage on his eye in case 4, before the bomb in the courtroom...


Spoiler:
I think he said he had to cover his eye, because he kept reacting to Kokone


Spoiler:
The mystery of the bandage made me wonder several times if Apollo would become a suspect in some way in case 5 (in the end, it was Kokone). But the reason for the bandage was a bit disappointing imo.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:58 pm
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Spoiler:
In case 4, I actually had a theory that the second "missing" bullet Detective Kaku shot hit Polly in the eye. (In other words, the criminal was...!)
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineSuspect Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:52 pm
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Spoiler:
I read somewhere that this case was trial-only, is that true?
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:00 pm
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Spoiler: Answer
No.

Spoiler: More detail
It's one investigation, and then a single trial split into two phases
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:40 pm
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
In case 4, I actually had a theory that the second "missing" bullet Detective Kaku shot hit Polly in the eye. (In other words, the criminal was...!)

Spoiler:
Why didn't they have that as an option? I would have gladly taken a penalty for that.

Well, Ohgawara wins Best Non-villain Breakdown, hands down, so the comedy was still top-class.


I think the 4th case is the weakest of all in this game, with how detached the introductions felt and how sudden the end came. Nonetheless, it definitely has its strengths, including what I mention above, and still kept true to that GS spirit.

This entire game has exceeded my expectations, and I am so satisfied. Now to take down the final boss.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:24 pm
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I thought the first was the weakest with how abrupt... that happened at the end. Also I think of cases 4+5 as one case.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDesk Jockey Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:33 pm
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Bad Player wrote:
I thought the first was the weakest with how abrupt... that happened at the end. Also I think of cases 4+5 as one case.


Case 1 wasn't that bad. Case 4 was interesting with for example

Spoiler:
the introduction of Jin's sister, I didn't expect that xD And also backstory for Apollo.


But I was surprised it was so short and

Spoiler:
without finding the culprit.


Still like you said, I consider them as one big case, or the introduction for Case 5.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 am
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Chauzu wrote:
Spoiler:
The mystery of the bandage made me wonder several times if Apollo would become a suspect in some way in case 5 (in the end, it was Kokone). But the reason for the bandage was a bit disappointing imo.


Spoiler:
Really? I thought it was a great reason. It really showed how much he wanted to believe in Kokone.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:44 pm
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So, was the bandage just symbolism or what? If so that's a little lame. Symbolism doesn't really work for me if it's detatched physical explanations. Then it feels a little one-dimensional.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineSuspect Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:56 pm
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linkenski wrote:
So, was the bandage just symbolism or what? If so that's a little lame. Symbolism doesn't really work for me if it's detatched physical explanations. Then it feels a little one-dimensional.

It's more to
Spoiler:
Stop himself from perceiving Athena
than anything.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:18 am
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Let me get something straight...

Spoiler:
Bombing and murder at space center → Trial for murder of Aoi Daichi → Bomb goes off during court → Trial for Morizumi Shinobu → Barashima Shingo guilty of murder. Shinobu not guilty. → At this point the bomb remote's whereabouts are unknown → Resume trial for murder of Aoi Daichi → Trial for Kizuki Kokone → Phantom brought to "justice".

My question is simply: Where did the bomb remote go? I'm not sure anything of it was really made of again (storyline-wise) after Case 1. Kokone and Naruhodou talk after C1 about how it was never found and that it could have been hidden by Barashima. Did it really happen this way? I don't think it was ever explicitly mentioned as being found so it could be a loose end.

Edit: Playing through C5 again and it is said that the bombing incident in Courtroom #4 was caused by the phantom who wanted to destroy the moon rock.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:56 am
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Spoiler:
Hmm... Barashima said he wasn't the one who detonated the bomb, and Phantom is presumably the one who stole the detonator, so I guess Phantom used the detonator to activate the bomb?

Speaking of which, since Barashima wasn't the one who activate the bomb... did he seriously hear the bomb's timer from the gallery? xD
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:30 am
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
Hmm... Barashima said he wasn't the one who detonated the bomb, and Phantom is presumably the one who stole the detonator, so I guess Phantom used the detonator to activate the bomb?

Speaking of which, since Barashima wasn't the one who activate the bomb... did he seriously hear the bomb's timer from the gallery? xD


Spoiler:
I just replayed the last part of Case 5 and it is mentioned that the phantom bombed Courthouse #4 to get rid of the moon stone. Yeah, this means Barashima would have needed to hear the bomb to be able to warn everyone about it... Which... makes him... a hero...? Or something... Well, he is a murderer so maybe not...
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:45 am
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Spoiler:
I guess most of his testimony from the beginning of case 1 was actually true.

>gets contradictions in testimony even when telling the truth

I guess that makes Barashima the worst AA villain.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineMedium-in-training Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:52 am
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
I guess most of his testimony from the beginning of case 1 was actually true.

>gets contradictions in testimony even when telling the truth

I guess that makes Barashima the worst AA villain.


Spoiler:
I'm assuming you mean he's the most "heroic" villain?

Speaking of which, does Tonate appear in Case 5. If so, what does he say?
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:12 am
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AnsweringNOW wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
I guess most of his testimony from the beginning of case 1 was actually true.

>gets contradictions in testimony even when telling the truth

I guess that makes Barashima the worst AA villain.


Spoiler:
I'm assuming you mean he's the most "heroic" villain?

Speaking of which, does Tonate appear in Case 5. If so, what does he say?

Spoiler:
But "hero" and "villain" are opposites! That's a contradiction!

Yes, Wright and Trucy meet with him in the detention center... and Fulbright is there. Tonate is completely apologetic with his one or two lines, and it seems Fulbright had been busy lecturing him.

...It was from there that I started to suspect some ill-intentioned discussions between them.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:50 am
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icer wrote:
What's this? Please do tell about this.


Spoiler:
In the credits, when it's Pearl's turn, she first talks about how messy the office is despite her fixing it up. But her last line is:

「修行が済んだら、真宵さまも
いらっしゃるのですから！」

Which translates to "Once she's done with her training, Mystic Maya will be coming to visit too!"

Admittedly, the more I look at it, the more it seems like a line just thrown out there... We'll see if it materializes into anything in the next game.



Spoiler: Breakdown theory
I want to see if I understand exactly why the phantom broke down.

So the fact that he is a spy means he is working for someone/a group. If his true identity were to be revealed, whoever was using him would no longer have use for him (as he could no longer work as a spy). They would also need to get rid of him to make sure he doesn't say anything about the person/group that employed his services. The phantom also mentions being watched by someone when he's at the witness stand. Probably his hirer, or perhaps someone else working under the same person. I remember him mentioning an "assassin". As it becomes more and more apparent that he is the true culprit and there's nowhere to hide, his fear of being taken out overwhelms him (ironically) to the point he goes, well, absolutely nuts. The person watching him decides he has become useless, shoots him, then runs off.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:13 am
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Spoiler:
...I thought he broke down because Nick & co proved him guilty. ^^"

(Everything else you said is... pretty much right, I think, but I don't think it was the 'direct' reason he broke down.)
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:49 am
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Bad Player wrote:
Spoiler:
...I thought he broke down because Nick & co proved him guilty. ^^"

(Everything else you said is... pretty much right, I think, but I don't think it was the 'direct' reason he broke down.)


Spoiler:
My bad, I should have titled the spoiler a bit more specifically. I'm thinking more about why he acted the way he did. Why does him being found out make him lose his cool the way he does (so dramatically)? Being found guilty is one thing, but for him it means people will be after his life. The lead up to the breakdown (the part where he says 恐怖恐怖恐怖恐怖) makes it seem as though he starts to remember why/that he's fearing for his life. It actually reminds me a lot of Matt Engarde from AA2.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:49 am
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SeanHK wrote:

Spoiler: Breakdown theory
I want to see if I understand exactly why the phantom broke down.

So the fact that he is a spy means he is working for someone/a group. If his true identity were to be revealed, whoever was using him would no longer have use for him (as he could no longer work as a spy). They would also need to get rid of him to make sure he doesn't say anything about the person/group that employed his services. The phantom also mentions being watched by someone when he's at the witness stand. Probably his hirer, or perhaps someone else working under the same person. I remember him mentioning an "assassin". As it becomes more and more apparent that he is the true culprit and there's nowhere to hide, his fear of being taken out overwhelms him (ironically) to the point he goes, well, absolutely nuts. The person watching him decides he has become useless, shoots him, then runs off.

Spoiler:
Wait, was it explicitly stated that he was shot at that moment? There wasn't even the sound of a gun. I didn't quite understand why a bunch of rubble started falling around him as he broke down, either. Could someone explain?
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:48 am
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Spoiler:
I think the rubble falling was just for dramatic effect (for his breakdown), and I also didn't hear a gunshot, but I think afterwards Udgey or Edgey said something about the bullet missing everything vital. Besides, how else would he have been attacked? xD
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:27 pm
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Spoiler:
> rubble falls randomly from an open ceiling

> half of the gallery filled despite major cracks running along the seating area

> attorneys stand next to cracked walls that could give way at any moment

:: safe to hold a trial
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineMedium-in-training Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:49 pm
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Spoiler:
Speaking of which, why did they decide to hold the trial in the bombed courtroom in the first place?
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDecisive Witness Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:56 pm
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AnsweringNOW wrote:
Spoiler:
Speaking of which, why did they decide to hold the trial in the bombed courtroom in the first place?


Spoiler: Answer
Blackquill's sister did something wich made them hold the trial in that courtroom.


Spoiler: That 'something'
I believe she held hostages and made them have to hold the trial that day, however, no courtrooms were available so they used that one.


For further explanaition, I believe this was already awnsered in the "I just want to know one thing" thread.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:37 am
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SeanHK wrote:

Spoiler:
In the credits, when it's Pearl's turn, she first talks about how messy the office is despite her fixing it up. But her last line is:

「修行が済んだら、真宵さまも
いらっしゃるのですから！」

Which translates to "Once she's done with her training, Mystic Maya will be coming to visit too!"

Admittedly, the more I look at it, the more it seems like a line just thrown out there... We'll see if it materializes into anything in the next game.




Thanks for the reply!

Spoiler:
Yeah, I say it premonitions nothing for GS6 (if it's written). They just ret-con credits comments whenever. Pearl can't be said to speak for Maya anyway. She didn't say 'Maya says..' or anything (not from your translation). After all the credits of GS3 say Maya's going to keep being Assistant General Manager of Wright and Co AND Kurain Master, but they just threw that one out somehow by GS4's 'flashbacks' and again here. And the entire jury thing has sort of vanished since GS4 as well, so if something so major can be 'forgotten' a tiny credits comment can as well.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineMedium-in-training Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:23 am
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AnsweringNOW

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Just to make sure...

Spoiler: Final boss spoilers
Did Phantom actually die? I've seen someone say that Blackquill noted the bullet missed Phantom's vital organs but I wanted to see if that was true.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAdmin Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:39 am
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AnsweringNOW wrote:
Just to make sure...

Spoiler: Final boss spoilers
Did Phantom actually die? I've seen someone say that Blackquill noted the bullet missed Phantom's vital organs but I wanted to see if that was true.


Spoiler: Final boss
He survived. Blackquill mentions that the bullet didn't hit anything vital and that Edgeworth will be prosecuting him on a variety of crimes.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineMedium-in-training Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:41 am
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AnsweringNOW

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Spoiler: Final boss
Well, glad to see that Phantom gets his comeuppance. Although I wondered if the assassin failing to kill Phantom was intentional by the group he worked for or not.

And now that I think about it, Phantom probably still fears for his life, even though he survived the gunshot. After all, the evil organization he worked for couldn't just leave him well enough alone, can they? That, and he's now confused because of his identity crisis. Looks like life after he's convicted going to be very miserable for him.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineSuspect Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:18 pm
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Case five final boss spoiler.

Spoiler:
Does Phantom have any others animations besides Phoenix's and those who he's copying? Besides his breakdown, which I don't want to be spoiled on.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDesk Jockey Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:41 pm
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Bolt Storm wrote:
AnsweringNOW wrote:
Just to make sure...

Spoiler: Final boss spoilers
Did Phantom actually die? I've seen someone say that Blackquill noted the bullet missed Phantom's vital organs but I wanted to see if that was true.


Spoiler: Final boss
He survived. Blackquill mentions that the bullet didn't hit anything vital and that Edgeworth will be prosecuting him on a variety of crimes.


Spoiler: Final boss
Really? Man, I always though he was killed xD I expect AA6 to focus on whatever organization he's from, because they never said anything. I mean he was a spy, but from who? If that's the case then maybe he will appear in AA6 from jail, if it's a direct sequel at least.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:20 pm
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Moni_22 wrote:
Spoiler: Final boss
Really? Man, I always though he was killed xD I expect AA6 to focus on whatever organization he's from, because they never said anything. I mean he was a spy, but from who? If that's the case then maybe he will appear in AA6 from jail, if it's a direct sequel at least.

Spoiler:
I'm not so sure about that. It's not like GK2 brought back the smuggling ring.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineMedium-in-training Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:26 pm
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AnsweringNOW

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Bad Player wrote:
Moni_22 wrote:
Spoiler: Final boss
Really? Man, I always though he was killed xD I expect AA6 to focus on whatever organization he's from, because they never said anything. I mean he was a spy, but from who? If that's the case then maybe he will appear in AA6 from jail, if it's a direct sequel at least.


Spoiler:
I'm not so sure about that. It's not like GK2 brought back the smuggling ring.


Spoiler:
Then again, that plot thread was tied up with the smuggling ring dealt with by Interpol and even if there are still smuggling ring members, they're fighting each other so no problem there.


Spoiler: Final boss
I wonder how Phantom would appear in GS6 since he has no clear identity after his breakdown. Perhaps he would just wear a hood or something to cover his face.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineDesk Jockey Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:28 pm
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Bad Player wrote:
Moni_22 wrote:
Spoiler: Final boss
Really? Man, I always though he was killed xD I expect AA6 to focus on whatever organization he's from, because they never said anything. I mean he was a spy, but from who? If that's the case then maybe he will appear in AA6 from jail, if it's a direct sequel at least.

Spoiler:
I'm not so sure about that. It's not like GK2 brought back the smuggling ring.


Spoiler:
Well that's true, but it felt strange how they ended that, without a proper explanation. The guy who shot Phantom, who was he/she? I want to know those secret xD
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineModerators Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:45 am
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Spoiler:
If we found that out, we might be his next victim xD
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:01 am
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Spoiler:
I honestly suspected De Killer to be involved, but was sadly disappointed that no reference to him was made at all.
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Re: Case 5 discussion thread (SPOILERS)Topic%20Title
OfflineAce Attorney Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:05 am
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Rubia Silve Ryu wrote:
Spoiler:
I honestly suspected De Killer to be involved, but was sadly disappointed that no reference to him was made at all.

Spoiler:
For some reason, I can't imagine De Killer using a sniper rifle to do his deeds. He seems to work more... directly ^^
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