GS6 Ideas : Kingdom of Khura'in (GS6)

Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:54 pm

JesusMonroe

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Yeah, but... I can see why he'd take that route, since it does make a very interesting premise, but then comes the main issue: how to collect it into a coherent mystery that doesn't force people to suspend their disbelief for any reason.

There's no doubt he writes good mysteries, but people are picky about consistency within a single universe that is fraught with contradictions. That seems like a moot point to complain about it, but it's no excuse to ignore them.

Well, I'll admit that I-5 is the mother of all suspend disbelief mysteries, but barring that, I think I've had to do about the same amount of suspension for both writers (also, I noticed that with Takumi, the cases against the defendants are usually very weak and would not result in an arrest. Phoenix also always thinks the weak evidence makes for a "hopeless" case)

Thane wrote:

We have disagreed with each other regarding this many times, but case 5-5 is the swiss cheese of storylines, and it has forever tainted my memory of Dual Destinies.

If you say so

Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:14 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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I never said that Takumi's work didn't have that problem or any multitude of problems I could complain endlessly over. I just said Yamazaki is a little more prone to it, based on the games we see him as the scenario director. We can't chalk it up to inexperience, though. He was part of the team for RftA onward, I believe, but his position at Capcom extends further. I don't remember exactly.

It's usually a "hopeless" case because the defense has even weaker evidence that turns out to be much stronger than anyone supposed and that just makes them all idoits in a way. Idoits.

Speaking of cheese, I think it's a good idea to wait for Dual Destinies to age another year or so before smacking it up again. The experience is of a completely different flavor.
And now I'm going to slink away into a little mousehole

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:17 pm

dimentiorules

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I thought of a way that we could make another GS game without any chance of creating more inconsistencies with the other games: Make the next game a total series reboot, like they did with games like Twisted Metal, Mortal Kombat, and Punch Out. It could just be called "Ace Attorney", and be referred to by the fans as Ace Attorney (Insert release year here). It would be a continuity reboot, and allow them to fix some of the mistakes they've made. They could change the relationships between characters, like for example, in the new universe, Mia Fey is much older than Phoenix Wright to the point that she raised him, and Maya is her daughter instead of her sister. They could also change certain plot points to make more sense.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:55 pm

linkenski

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I think maybe I never really thought the mystery aspect of Ace Attorney was really what I liked so much about it. I mean sure it's in the mystery genre and it's the biggest chunk of the plots but I feel like at the end of a Takumi-written plot there's usually some sort of satisfying or meaningful outcome. Even when it's bad it's still... sort of good I guess (2-3) and Yamazaki seems to just write the whole payoff completely away with more than half his cases, mainly the ones in DD and AAI (AAI2 isn't bad technically speaking but I still feel like motive is not given enough attention). It's like i think the whole Takumi vs Yamazaki boils down to the fact that Takumi seems more focused on a certain narrative tell or touch while Yamazaki just wants to twist my brain.

Admittedly a good brain teaser isn't so bad when there's light at the end of the tunnel, but that's what I think Yamazaki doesn't do (in most of his cases anyway).

Spoiler: DD motives

Not that Von Karma or Kristoph's motives weren't silly to say the least, but they are so much more compelling still because they are people driven by pride, rather than... nothing whatsoever.

I guess AAI2 was better on the motive front. I really liked case 3's motive, I really liked the final villain's scheme and I'm not kidding you either when I say I think case 2's motive was okay too (not Blaise though. I think he's a terrible character).

But basically I hope whether motives are good or not, I just hope they are more a big part of a case in GS6. Outside of 5-1 I don't recall the prosecutors or Phoenix/Athena/Nick ever going "but what about the motive?" when a new possibility is shown. The lack of that attention to detail felt really missing in DD IMO. I don't even think AAI2 does it well either because it saves the "discussing motives" part for the final bit for the most part.

More of that, and then, more power to Yamazaki.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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dimentiorules wrote:

I thought of a way that we could make another GS game without any chance of creating more inconsistencies with the other games: Make the next game a total series reboot, like they did with games like Twisted Metal, Mortal Kombat, and Punch Out. It could just be called "Ace Attorney", and be referred to by the fans as Ace Attorney (Insert release year here). It would be a continuity reboot, and allow them to fix some of the mistakes they've made. They could change the relationships between characters, like for example, in the new universe, Mia Fey is much older than Phoenix Wright to the point that she raised him, and Maya is her daughter instead of her sister. They could also change certain plot points to make more sense.

Ace Attorney 2016: Shit Happens This Year

If it is not titled exactly like that, I will throw a hissy fit and send Capcom spam mail every day.

Joking aside, I don't think Capcom would spend so much of their resources rewriting Takumi's work when they can just write for new titles instead. It's easier and appeals to a wider audience.

linkenski wrote:

It's like i think the whole Takumi vs Yamazaki boils down to the fact that Takumi seems more focused on a certain narrative tell or touch while Yamazaki just wants to twist my brain.

~~It's Eshiro's fault~~ Well, let's just say that one is a little more down-to-earth with his mysteries than the other.

Quote:

Not that Von Karma or Kristoph's motives weren't silly to say the least, but they are so much more compelling still because they are people driven by pride, rather than... nothing whatsoever.

It's not "nothing"; it's called "greed" and they have plenty of pride to match. They're just not as impressive as those two because they didn't create year-old plans of revenge.

Quote:

But basically I hope whether motives are good or not, I just hope they are more a big part of a case in GS6. Outside of 5-1 I don't recall the prosecutors or Phoenix/Athena/Nick ever going "but what about the motive?" when a new possibility is shown. The lack of that attention to detail felt really missing in DD IMO. I don't even think AAI2 does it well either because it saves the "discussing motives" part for the final bit for the most part.

More of that, and then, more power to Yamazaki.

Poor Apollo.

It's true that motives do add a little to the cases overall, but it's one of those things in criminal investigations that don't really matter as much. Sure, it adds a little to the villain's side of the story more, but what reasons do people usually have to commit murder? What reasons have we not touched upon already? (Well, there's the maniacal asshat who does it just for kicks, but that would either turn out pretty good or really, really bad.)

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:56 am

JesusMonroe

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

It's not "nothing"; it's called "greed" and they have plenty of pride to match. They're just not as impressive as those two because they didn't create year-old plans of revenge.

You know, I've called Takumi's villains petty before (though I never mean it in a way that they're uninteresting. They are petty, but I still love them) and I do generally prefer his villains over Yamazaki's. Barring GK2 and Calisto Yew, I pretty much have the same issue with the majority of Yamazaki's villains; if they weren't villains, they'd be unmemorable. Name every personality trait of Luke Atmey before you find out he's the villain. Name every personality trait of Lance Amano before you find out he's the villain. There's a clear difference here. I actually could say the same for some of GK2's villains, even though I do think they're some of the stronger ones in the series

Anyway, what was I saying? Oh yeah. Your comment just created a small epiphany in me. I was wondering why Takumi's petty villains were generally more interesting than the non-petty ones and you hit the nail on the head; it's the year-long plans of revenge. Actually, if you look at them from a perspective, Von Karma and Kristoph can be seen as horribly pathetic
------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, assuming Maya appears in the game, are you guys going to want her to be the exact same Maya? I feel like we won't be able to get an appearance of Maya that all the fans are happy with in this game (either people saying she's the exact same character she was eight years ago or she's not close enough to her original self) but I think it would be cool if she took some of Misty's personality/appearance. That, or Iwadare can blend Maya's theme and Misty's

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:07 am

Nearavex

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I'd expect some mix between Misty's, Mia's and her own personality traits.

She should still be somewhat playful, somehow reminiscent of Mia, too - they have a similar mischevious smile, with the biggest difference being Mia's more neutrally-positioned body base.

Then, I'd like some more "serious" poses that would somehow reflect her responsibilty as the Master of Kurain. When things get serious, you can see that leadership spirit in her, that kind of feel. That was this one thing I felt was missing from skycompass's Maya set.

The love for noodles and burgers absolutely has to stay too. Maturing is one thing, but brainwashing is not allowed.

Adult Maya's theme... Yeah, I'm looking forward to that to. We deserve that, after hearing Trucy's theme during that letter, really... :ron:

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:26 am

JesusMonroe

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Pretty much agree on all points. As for the theme, I'm very ambivalent about it. I wouldn't say that Pearl's theme in Dual Destinies was "butchered" but her old one was definitely far superior. Plus, while Maya's old theme was kind of eh, her 2002 theme was PERFECT. It's seriously one of the best in the series

This probably belongs in the Labryinthia sub-forum, but did Maya get an updated theme in PLvAA?

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:34 am

Nearavex

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Strange, it's the exact opposite for me =P - I prefer 2001 over 2002 and I like the sound of Pearl's DD theme more than the old one.

To answer your question, there are two arranges, but neither is a regular character track. One of them plays during the airplane scene.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:36 am

linkenski

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I was about to say that too. Turnabout Sisters 2001 is waaay better than the 2002 in my opinion, (so why did they reuse 2002 in T&T? >_>) I don't know, I think it's louder and more annoying in JFA plus it doesn't have that really good bridge section.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:28 am

Jean Descole

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linkenski wrote:

I was about to say that too. Turnabout Sisters 2001 is waaay better than the 2002 in my opinion, (so why did they reuse 2002 in T&T? >_>) I don't know, I think it's louder and more annoying in JFA plus it doesn't have that really good bridge section.

I think the 2002 version was supposed to be "Maya's return" or something, but I agree, there's something special about the 2001 version that the 2002 version just doesn't capture.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:37 pm

JesusMonroe

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The only time I thought her 2001 theme "fit" was when she was leaving at the train station. I mean, I thought it fit at other portions, too, but I think the 2002 theme reflects her enthusiastic nature better. Whenever I hear it, I instantly feel happy. Maya's 2001 is my least favorite of the "sister" themes (and Ema's 2001 ranks up near the top)

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:55 pm

dimentiorules

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I can't believe I'm saying this, but....... I don't like Maya. There, I said it. I find her too immature, she wasn't so bad in the first game, but her immaturity and weird comments were flanderized to the extreme in later games. She never takes anything seriously at all, to be honest. The only cases I liked her in were 1-2, 1-4, 2-2, 2-4, and 3-5, since those were the only cases where she wasn't there for the sole purpose of comedy relief. The only assistant character I actually like is Pearl, she's just so adorable! ~~PLEASE DON'T KILL ME, DOMAYA!~~

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:59 pm

JesusMonroe

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Maya's ok. I don't hate her but she definitely became tired with overuse. I'd probably put her up with Godot and Dahlia Hawthorne as "most overrated AA characters." Also, the fact that 1-5, 2-4, and 3-5 (along with 2-2 and 3-4) are considered the best cases of the OT seems like it could be correlation rather than coincidence (and 1-4 and 3-2 being outliers)

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:26 pm

linkenski

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I do agree that Maya felt pretty flanderized in the filler cases of T&T, which was sad because she had grown so much on me after PWAA and JFA. Also in 3-5 the "maya is in trouble" started feeling old and I remember thinking "I should be way more into this than I am becuase the game wants me to" but I just couldn't because it started to feel like it was too much of the good stuff after having just beaten too excellent games. I hope you get my drift here.

I would like to see her in AA6, but then at the same time I wont, I guess you can say I'm ambivalent about it. My problem is that with Pearl back, maybe Klavier too, there's just starting to be too many of the same types of characters at once. I don't really feel like seeing Maya in the same room as Trucy because I think Trucy is the second coming of Maya and they are too similar. Athena isn't exactly a subversion of the trope but she does differentiate herself from Trucy in some ways IMO. I think Maya and Trucy are both pretty immature and Athena is super peppy and all, but at least she doesn't leap before she thinks as much (unless I'm wrong about that).

If Maya's back I hope she's changed drastically so she doesn't end up seeming like Trucy's spiritual twin. :payne:

BTW. I like Pearl's new theme, but... TBH it's the friggin same, the instrumentation just sounds different because it sticks to the modern DD soundfont. It's like how I'm indecisive about whether I think Eccentric 2002 is better than 2007. They're the same there's just difference in instrumental sounds and octaves. :ron:

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:16 pm

dimentiorules

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JesusMonroe wrote:

Maya's ok. I don't hate her but she definitely became tired with overuse. I'd probably put her up with Godot and Dahlia Hawthorne as "most overrated AA characters." Also, the fact that 1-5, 2-4, and 3-5 (along with 2-2 and 3-4) are considered the best cases of the OT seems like it could be correlation rather than coincidence (and 1-4 and 3-2 being outliers)

In my opinion, the most overrated AA character is Miles Edgeworth. He's just too normal compared to the other prosecutors in the series. The other prosecutors all have little quirks and gimmicks that make them interesting, Edgeworth does not. He's generic, just the standard "cold, distant rival that slowly warms up to the main character" archetype we've seen a million times. He's the most boring out of all of the prosecutors, yet he's also the most popular, which I don't get.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:51 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Jus' jumpin' in here. Don't mean no disrespect, Imma feel for you peeps, but Ron Delite and Luke Atmey rivalry is the best rivalry in this series of all time.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:56 pm

dimentiorules

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Jus' jumpin' in here. Don't mean no disrespect, Imma feel for you peeps, but Ron Delite and Luke Atmey rivalry is the best rivalry in this series of all time.

Dude, the Kanye West joke is so old by now. It's like making a "cake is a lie" joke, it just isn't funny anymore.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:06 pm

JesusMonroe

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linkenski wrote:

I would like to see her in AA6, but then at the same time I wont, I guess you can say I'm ambivalent about it. My problem is that with Pearl back, maybe Klavier too, there's just starting to be too many of the same types of characters at once. I don't really feel like seeing Maya in the same room as Trucy because I think Trucy is the second coming of Maya and they are too similar. Athena isn't exactly a subversion of the trope but she does differentiate herself from Trucy in some ways IMO. I think Maya and Trucy are both pretty immature and Athena is super peppy and all, but at least she doesn't leap before she thinks as much (unless I'm wrong about that).

If Maya's back I hope she's changed drastically so she doesn't end up seeming like Trucy's spiritual twin. :payne:

BTW. I like Pearl's new theme, but... TBH it's the friggin same, the instrumentation just sounds different because it sticks to the modern DD soundfont. It's like how I'm indecisive about whether I think Eccentric 2002 is better than 2007. They're the same there's just difference in instrumental sounds and octaves. :ron:

Making Trucy Phoenix's daughter was kind of a stroke of genius on the part of the writers because I don't know if I would've warmed up to her as quickly. I think you have a point but I can already see people screaming during AA6 saying, "This game sucked at emulating Maya's character!" I like Trucy, though. I pretty much like all of the assistants and think they bring something new to the table. The argument that they're all Maya clones is that you might as well be saying all of the Prosecutors are Edgeworth clones. Sure, they're all teenage girls, but i can still find things to enjoy in each one. In the end, someone will get called a Sue anyway, but I might as well try to find something I like. I guess I'm just not super picky. I've complained about the series before but there's always something I enjoy in every case

dimentiorules wrote:

In my opinion, the most overrated AA character is Miles Edgeworth. He's just too normal compared to the other prosecutors in the series. The other prosecutors all have little quirks and gimmicks that make them interesting, Edgeworth does not. He's generic, just the standard "cold, distant rival that slowly warms up to the main character" archetype we've seen a million times. He's the most boring out of all of the prosecutors, yet he's also the most popular, which I don't get.

His character is a tragedy. It makes the audience want to help him and the fact that we can see him develop as we go through the series helps, too

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Jus' jumpin' in here. Don't mean no disrespect, Imma feel for you peeps, but Ron Delite and Luke Atmey rivalry is the best rivalry in this series of all time.

Funny you mention this, because I just finished up 3-2 the other week and realized Ron Delite is way more likable than I had originally thought

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:50 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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JesusMonroe wrote:

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Jus' jumpin' in here. Don't mean no disrespect, Imma feel for you peeps, but Ron Delite and Luke Atmey rivalry is the best rivalry in this series of all time.

Funny you mention this, because I just finished up 3-2 the other week and realized Ron Delite is way more likable than I had originally thought

Double Jeopardy. That, and his awesome wife. Believe me, as cute as I find Mia and Diego, my favorite canon pairing is still Ron and Dessie. Ron gets away with everything; he avoids murder charges, charges of his genuine theft, and gets to keep his woman. Now there's a gentleman thief when I see one, even if he screeches like a parrot, but I say that only adds to his charm.

And then they enjoy their new illegal business of selling heist plans to criminals, and no one can stop them. Now that's badass.

No other characters have enjoyed such a fulfilling, happy ending until Orla and Sasha. It's beautifully poetic in its own way.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:07 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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There is no break here. You're just imagining it. That submit was an accident, really.

linkenski wrote:

I would like to see her in AA6, but then at the same time I wont, I guess you can say I'm ambivalent about it. My problem is that with Pearl back, maybe Klavier too, there's just starting to be too many of the same types of characters at once. I don't really feel like seeing Maya in the same room as Trucy because I think Trucy is the second coming of Maya and they are too similar. Athena isn't exactly a subversion of the trope but she does differentiate herself from Trucy in some ways IMO. I think Maya and Trucy are both pretty immature and Athena is super peppy and all, but at least she doesn't leap before she thinks as much (unless I'm wrong about that).

Are you talking about Athena not leaping before she thinks? No, no, Apollo has to be around to make sure she doesn't jump into trouble. Her personality, however, suits as a better match with Apollo than Trucy does, and I'm not talking about pairings.

Trucy is more of a mix between Maya and Nick, being his daughter. She's just young and hasn't experienced much to worry about yet. Maya, meanwhile, would have grown by this time. I'm not expecting her in GS6 either, but she, Pearl, and Klavier have very little in common. In fact, why mention Klavier?

Quote:

BTW. I like Pearl's new theme, but... TBH it's the friggin same, the instrumentation just sounds different because it sticks to the modern DD soundfont. It's like how I'm indecisive about whether I think Eccentric 2002 is better than 2007. They're the same there's just difference in instrumental sounds and octaves. :ron:

The instrumentation alone is what makes it different enough to be called a "remix". Unlike with Eccentric, which is indeed a port from JFA, Pearl's theme in DD is a variation. The tempo is a bit more upbeat, to match that of Turnabout Sisters, and the striking parallels to her character depiction in-game is done pretty well. Shy little Pearly has grown up into a more social and engaging person.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:02 pm

linkenski

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Yeah that was kind of confusing of me to mention Trucy and Klavier and then talk about how there's too many samey characters. I kinda mixed my thoughts together there, sorry.

I guess I mean to say, there's too many returning characters at once and of the energetic side-kick type of characters we already have Athena and Trucy... and I guess Pearl counts too at least since she's also young and female and has been a courtroom assistant (albeit as Mia) from time to time in the past. I'm sure AA6 is full of new faces and probably a new prosecutor too and maybe a new minor character like Ray in AAI2 or something, so adding in Maya while also keeping Trucy and Athena and maybe Pearls around all while introducing all the new characters is just... it's gonna be a mess.

And like you say JesusMonroe, I don't have faith in Yamazaki to do Maya's character justice, not if he tries to write her like Takumi used to, but maybe it could work if he changes her personality so she isn't as perky and mischievous. But either way I don't think bringing her in is a good idea unless they throw out either Trucy, Pearl or Athena because I keep thinking they'd all have to be in the office at some point and we're gonna get some annoying character bloating all over again.

I even thought 3-5 had way too many characters to be honest. I didn't like having Franziska and Edgeworth interfere so much during the investigation parts.

Also, I really don't think you can call With Pearly 2013 a remix. I just compared them side-by-side. There's no new sections, no coda or anything. It's basically just the same tune reworked in another sound engine except this is not straight-up midi made in a PC program but it's pretty close, or at least it sounds like it is. EDIT: Okay, slight tempo-change. Maybe 8 BPM -- TOPS. I don't really hear the differences aside from that.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:28 pm

dimentiorules

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What you said about Edgeworth being a tragedy, I don't get. Athena also has a tragic past, yet most of the fanbase hates her. What's the difference?

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:00 pm

JesusMonroe

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dimentiorules wrote:

What you said about Edgeworth being a tragedy, I don't get. Athena also has a tragic past, yet most of the fanbase hates her. What's the difference?

Edgeworth was the first character with a tragic past. Athena is like, the fourteenth or something. Plus, you can tell the tragedy still pains Edgeworth to this day, so he feels like a more realistic character

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

The instrumentation alone is what makes it different enough to be called a "remix". Unlike with Eccentric, which is indeed a port from JFA, Pearl's theme in DD is a variation. The tempo is a bit more upbeat, to match that of Turnabout Sisters, and the striking parallels to her character depiction in-game is done pretty well. Shy little Pearly has grown up into a more social and engaging person.

Pearl's old theme had a kind of "background tempo" (I don't know any music words. Don't judge me) that felt very melancholic and appropriate to her character because she was the kind of character that you'd feel bad for. Her new theme doesn't really have that. It also sounds too "clean" if that makes sense
(And if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's more clear in the piano version. The left hand plays the "sad" part)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Mx9alNWVk

I guess it does make sense because like you said, she's more of a social and engaging person now. I guess her character was treated pretty well all things considered, though I do miss little Pearls and her crying animation

linkenski wrote:

I even thought 3-5 had way too many characters to be honest. I didn't like having Franziska and Edgeworth interfere so much during the investigation parts.

Investigating with Franziska was the best part of the case

Re: GS6 Ideas

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:43 pm

Jean Descole

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dimentiorules wrote:

JesusMonroe wrote:

Maya's ok. I don't hate her but she definitely became tired with overuse. I'd probably put her up with Godot and Dahlia Hawthorne as "most overrated AA characters." Also, the fact that 1-5, 2-4, and 3-5 (along with 2-2 and 3-4) are considered the best cases of the OT seems like it could be correlation rather than coincidence (and 1-4 and 3-2 being outliers)

In my opinion, the most overrated AA character is Miles Edgeworth. He's just too normal compared to the other prosecutors in the series. The other prosecutors all have little quirks and gimmicks that make them interesting, Edgeworth does not. He's generic, just the standard "cold, distant rival that slowly warms up to the main character" archetype we've seen a million times. He's the most boring out of all of the prosecutors, yet he's also the most popular, which I don't get.

As much as I like Edgeworth, I have to agree he's overrated as a character in the whole series. Or maybe I should say oddly rated.

People like him for various reasons. You'll get responses from "OMG HE IS SOOOO CUTE" to "OMG HE IS SOOOO CUTE." Oh wait. Well, some people like him because he's such a sneaky little dick in court. Or because he's so delightfully socially awkward outside of the courtroom. Or because it's hot to see him make Phoenix his bitch. Personally, I didn't care for him until the end of JFA, when we figured out what the deal was with him.

But implying a character is interesting only if they have crazy quirks is kind of the opposite of good character development. Edgeworth doesn't need whips or seventeen cups of coffee or flashy jackets or air guitars or hair-cutting blades, he's interesting as he is. But really, it's just a matter of opinion.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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linkenski wrote:

Also, I really don't think you can call With Pearly 2013 a remix. I just compared them side-by-side. There's no new sections, no coda or anything. It's basically just the same tune reworked in another sound engine except this is not straight-up midi made in a PC program but it's pretty close, or at least it sounds like it is. EDIT: Okay, slight tempo-change. Maybe 8 BPM -- TOPS. I don't really hear the differences aside from that.

Whoops, I misjudged the original one's actual tempo. They're the same and any perceived differences in beat is negligible - but I think 2013's just has a slightly more gradual pick-up arpeggio. Anyway, a variation in the musical sense doesn't have to have a different verse. The biggest difference is the ~~ending, obviously~~ second harmony in accompaniment to the original bass line that gives it that doo-wop feel. There's also a jingle at the end of the second verse that isn't present in the original, but that's getting technical.

Really, the variations of the pursuit themes usually consist of only an extra bass line. They count as separate tracks, nonetheless.

JesusMonroe wrote:

Pearl's old theme had a kind of "background tempo" (I don't know any music words. Don't judge me) that felt very melancholic and appropriate to her character because she was the kind of character that you'd feel bad for. Her new theme doesn't really have that. It also sounds too "clean" if that makes sense
(And if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's more clear in the piano version. The left hand plays the "sad" part)

~~Dang piano version, messin' up my tempo~~ The left hand plays the bass line, which was in the original piece. It's more upbeat in the OST.

Sierra Mikain wrote:

As much as I like Edgeworth, I have to agree he's overrated as a character in the whole series. Or maybe I should say oddly rated.

People like him for various reasons. You'll get responses from "OMG HE IS SOOOO CUTE" to "OMG HE IS SOOOO CUTE." Oh wait. Well, some people like him because he's such a sneaky little dick in court. Or because he's so delightfully socially awkward outside of the courtroom. Or because it's hot to see him make Phoenix his bitch. Personally, I didn't care for him until the end of JFA, when we figured out what the deal was with him.

But implying a character is interesting only if they have crazy quirks is kind of the opposite of good character development. Edgeworth doesn't need whips or seventeen cups of coffee or flashy jackets or air guitars or hair-cutting blades, he's interesting as he is. But really, it's just a matter of opinion.

Hahahaha, cute? Hahahahaah...

I think he started to grow on me by Turnabout Samurai... probably because of the Steel Samurai. Who doesn't love cyborg samurais dishing it out? And same here; it wasn't until JFA when I actually had proper respect for him.

...Somehow, it feels like we've slid away from the topic. And I still want GS6 to answer my hat question.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:16 am

JesusMonroe

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Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Double Jeopardy. That, and his awesome wife. Believe me, as cute as I find Mia and Diego, my favorite canon pairing is still Ron and Dessie. Ron gets away with everything; he avoids murder charges, charges of his genuine theft, and gets to keep his woman. Now there's a gentleman thief when I see one, even if he screeches like a parrot, but I say that only adds to his charm.

And then they enjoy their new illegal business of selling heist plans to criminals, and no one can stop them. Now that's badass.

No other characters have enjoyed such a fulfilling, happy ending until Orla and Sasha. It's beautifully poetic in its own way.

Forgot to mention this. I said before that VGA voices Ace Attorney and they're so good that 80% of the voices they use have become canon to me. Desiree is one of their best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8awZtiNfjo

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:40 pm

Nearavex

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What did I just hear.

Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:30 pm

linkenski

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I've seen that channel before. It's very cringe but I guess many like that :wellington:

If you want a good LP of at least the first two games that also has dub, go for DarksydePhil's (DSPGaming is his youtube channel)

I know the guy gets a lot of hate (he calls himself the King of Hate too) and rightfully so. He's a total jerk, but I like him. I think his awful toilet humor and immature rants are hilarious. He's a bumbling fool, but seriously, go watch his playthrough of the first game at least. It's GREAT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeb2f_L ... 346DF7ECF1

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:56 pm

JesusMonroe

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I've been a DSP fan since like 2008 but holy shit has his channel gone to hell. In 2012 his humor became so forced and it was getting increasingly clear how greedy he was becoming. 2013 was just a shit show and even though he promised he wouldn't block anyone anymore, I got blocked for saying, and I quote, "I feel you like you can't handle criticism anymore. You can't just silence your critics and call them haters." I like evilaj now and even though I've never played MGS, I support the Kojima World Order and what they're doing. He's a pretty terrible person and his girlfriend is even worse. I haven't followed him as of late but I saw some pretty cringeworthy videos a while back (one was from Duck Tales which he titled "Epic Rage!")

As for Phoenix Wright playthrough, I like his of the first game. I think VGA beats him by miles. They're funnier and they're voices are way better for the characters, so much so that those are the voices I imagine while playing now (like I mentioned before)

Yes, I realize this is off-topic

Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:45 pm

linkenski

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Don't ask me how I got this stupid idea, but for some reason I had this daydream about the first case of AA6 being a nightmare Apollo has (kinda like Nick's in JFA) but it should be playable and in court. It could be a means of foreshadowing the fundamental thematic outline for the game and at the same time pull some crazy humor and amazing animations. The prosecutor should shoot lasers out of his index finger when he objects and stuff, and the Judge should look like the Grim Reaper or something (okay maybe scratch that... or not, IDK) but it could be pretty neat.

Then it should start out with it all looking like your usual tutorial case but then as you progress things become more and more unreal and Apollo will at some point also go "Pinch me, I think I'm dreaming!" plus it could also be a means to use that dimmed courtroom lighting they used in the breakdown in the final case of DD.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:05 pm

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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So... we'd be playing a Phoenix Wrong / Apollo Injustice game? What the heck is this game going to be about, then? D:

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1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:57 pm

dimentiorules

You know, a Mario game!

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I hate the voices VGA gives most of the characters. They try to make the voices funny, without thinking about how they actually fit the character, case in point, Pearl. The only voices they do that I think actually somewhat fit the character are Damon Gant and Phoenix Wright himself. I hate the Maya voice, it so grating, and it's clear it's meant to be funny, but it's not, it's just annoying. I wish they'd just do what SuperJeenius does and read the text silently, but I know that isn't going to happen.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:03 pm

JesusMonroe

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dimentiorules wrote:

I hate the voices VGA gives most of the characters. They try to make the voices funny, without thinking about how they actually fit the character, case in point, Pearl. The only voices they do that I think actually somewhat fit the character are Damon Gant and Phoenix Wright himself. I hate the Maya voice, it so grating, and it's clear it's meant to be funny, but it's not, it's just annoying. I wish they'd just do what SuperJeenius does and read the text silently, but I know that isn't going to happen.

Agreed on Pearl, disagree on Maya. I hated Maya's voice at first but after a while, it really grew on me and it's the only voice I can imagine her with. Like I said, it took a long time to get used to but I disagree completely

Their Phoenix, Judge, Larry, Maya, Gumshoe, Edgeworth, Redd White, Gant, Meekins, Ema, Wellington, Ini, Franziska, Moe, Trilo, nice Engarde, De Killer, Atmey, Desiree, Ron, Brother Judge, Jean Armstrong, Kudo, Tonate, Juniper, and Tigre voices are perfect (they've only done 1-1 through 3-4 and the DD demo). The others are ok. The only ones they "shit the bed" on are Pearl, Mia, Acro, evil Engarde, Will Powers, Max, Grossberg, Maggey, and Ben. I always change my mind on Godot. Keep in mind they're deliberately being over the top and hammy with the voices. That's the point

Re: GS6 Ideas

Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:10 pm

linkenski

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dimentiorules wrote:

I hate the voices VGA gives most of the characters. They try to make the voices funny, without thinking about how they actually fit the character, case in point, Pearl. The only voices they do that I think actually somewhat fit the character are Damon Gant and Phoenix Wright himself. I hate the Maya voice, it so grating, and it's clear it's meant to be funny, but it's not, it's just annoying. I wish they'd just do what SuperJeenius does and read the text silently, but I know that isn't going to happen.

This ^

EDIT: Instead of a wall of text I'll just say, their voices are not just hammy. They don't make sense to the characters they are trying to voice. They just make the most absurd voices they can come up with for most characters in that "Lol so random hurh hurh hurh!" way. I don't like it, and seeing as they wear cosplay, is it even a blind play? Like what's the point of watching an LP of Phoenix Wright if you don't see the LP'ers reaction to the story moments?

Oh, well, Rubia: Why would it be "Phoenix Wrong / Apollo Injustice" because it starts in a dream? I meant it as in instead of flashback cases we get one or two dreams or something that foreshadow the game's overarching themes and because it's a dream the animators get to do crazy stuff that would otherwise be too far-fetched. I dunno what the game should be about, but take for instance the popular suggestion that Apollo's father should be involved, then he could be the prosecutor or something (I like thinking Apollo's dad should be a bad guy) and he should have a really haunting and threatening prescense in the dream.

I obviously don't think anything like that is gonna happen, but I just randomly thought of something like a dream or nightmare as a case scenario (or game introduction as in JFA, but playble -- like I said) and felt a need to post it here, in the GS6 ideas thread :-P

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:06 am

dimentiorules

You know, a Mario game!

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linkenski wrote:

dimentiorules wrote:

I hate the voices VGA gives most of the characters. They try to make the voices funny, without thinking about how they actually fit the character, case in point, Pearl. The only voices they do that I think actually somewhat fit the character are Damon Gant and Phoenix Wright himself. I hate the Maya voice, it so grating, and it's clear it's meant to be funny, but it's not, it's just annoying. I wish they'd just do what SuperJeenius does and read the text silently, but I know that isn't going to happen.

This ^

EDIT: Instead of a wall of text I'll just say, their voices are not just hammy. They don't make sense to the characters they are trying to voice. They just make the most absurd voices they can come up with for most characters in that "Lol so random hurh hurh hurh!" way. I don't like it, and seeing as they wear cosplay, is it even a blind play? Like what's the point of watching an LP of Phoenix Wright if you don't see the LP'ers reaction to the story moments?

Actually, you're right. It's not really blind, he just hasn't played the game in a long time, so he forgot most of the stuff that happens. At least, that's what he says.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:12 am

Rubia Ryu the Royal

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Sorry, JM, I'm gonna have to agree with these guys. I can tolerate the voices they give, but outside of an episode or two, I don't find them very funny. I certainly can see why others would find them hilarious, though.

linkenski wrote:

Oh, well, Rubia: Why would it be "Phoenix Wrong / Apollo Injustice" because it starts in a dream? I meant it as in instead of flashback cases we get one or two dreams or something that foreshadow the game's overarching themes and because it's a dream the animators get to do crazy stuff that would otherwise be too far-fetched. I dunno what the game should be about, but take for instance the popular suggestion that Apollo's father should be involved, then he could be the prosecutor or something (I like thinking Apollo's dad should be a bad guy) and he should have a really haunting and threatening prescense in the dream.

I obviously don't think anything like that is gonna happen, but I just randomly thought of something like a dream or nightmare as a case scenario (or game introduction as in JFA, but playble -- like I said) and felt a need to post it here, in the GS6 ideas thread :-P

I see that it's just a silly idea, but I really don't think it'll work in an actual game, not even a fanmade one. The dream worked in JFA as an intro because of powerful imagery in hindsight; the way its entire meaning changed by the second time it appeared. Playing a trial in a dream where the rules of reality are way too lax or abstract to follow would be confusing in all senses. People better not suddenly gain superpowers per UMvC3 randomness, or the judge will banish them to the netherworld where Demon Overlord Phoenix will force them to clean toilets for eternity. Joking aside, there wouldn't be a point when the devs could just create another actual court case.

Something like that wouldn't suit as a tutorial case either. The tutorial is for new players who are just getting into the atmosphere of this universe. They'll get the wrong impression if it starts off the first trial in a dream, especially if all other games thus far have started with legit court cases - legit, being something the prosecutor actually has a case for, even if it's a Payne. It doesn't blend well with other cases in the same game to have both real and unreal trials. It's messy storytelling, completely different from storywriting, btw.

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1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.

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Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:24 am

JesusMonroe

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linkenski wrote:

This ^

EDIT: Instead of a wall of text I'll just say, their voices are not just hammy. They don't make sense to the characters they are trying to voice. They just make the most absurd voices they can come up with for most characters in that "Lol so random hurh hurh hurh!" way. I don't like it, and seeing as they wear cosplay, is it even a blind play? Like what's the point of watching an LP of Phoenix Wright if you don't see the LP'ers reaction to the story moments?

I don't really know what idea you're getting for "random." All the voices do have a purpose and a lot are appropriate for the characters they're trying to voice

And it is a blind play. The guy dressed as Phoenix has played the games before, but he remembers nothing. The only times in the series where he remembered something was the metal detector contradiction (but he let his friends figure it out) and him remembering how the bullet hole in 2-2 made him rage

Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:

Sorry, JM, I'm gonna have to agree with these guys. I can tolerate the voices they give, but outside of an episode or two, I don't find them very funny. I certainly can see why others would find them hilarious, though.

I understand because I hated them at first, too (though I'm not saying this as a way of saying, "You'll warm up to them." I'm just saying I understand your position). You don't have to apologize because it isn't everyone's cup of tea. I was just mentioning a voice and then mentioned how they were better than DSP when the "topic" turned to that (though they probably are my favorite LP channel at the moment). Though, I do think the voices are a turn-off for a lot of people because when most people read the voices in their head, all the voices are generally the same

I didn't mean to rustle anyone's jimmies

Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:51 pm

JesusMonroe

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I think it's been enough time to post again

Kind of stemming from the train idea, it would be cool to have a case that's isolated to one location (kind of like Turnabout Airlines but the plane never lands. Maybe even throw in some tension like a bomb on the plane). It would be cool if the case on the train had something like a passenger that just "disappeared." This would probably be a better idea for a GK case, though, since they'd have to leave the train at some point in a GS game

And I don't know if this has been suggested, but it would be cool if we had a case that was a parody of And Then There Were None/Clue. Phoenix and Trucy/Edgeworth and Kay decide to go to an island with a mansion on it and end up trapped on it with a dead body and no way off the island. We can even have an increasing body count. Plus, it could work in a GS game if Phoenix decided the only way to find the truth was through a trial, so everybody sets up a mock courtroom where Phoenix defends his client and goes against a "Prosecutor" (the Judge can also be on the island for some reason). Everybody on the island can also be there for a reason that's not revealed until later (and if they do a Clue parody, the character names could be like Ms. Crimson, Professor Peach, etc)

Re: GS6 Ideas

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:16 pm

linkenski

"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"

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dimentiorules wrote:

Actually, you're right. It's not really blind, he just hasn't played the game in a long time, so he forgot most of the stuff that happens. At least, that's what he says.

I played Phoenix Wright all the way back in 2009, and then played JFA, T&T and etc. from 2012 and onwards. Going back to replay the original after I beat the other ones I found a couple of dialogues that I didn't remember but there wasn't anything major. The way that dude acts whenever he acts surprised seems pretty feigned to me.

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