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Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=31978 |
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Author: | Pierre [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Bad Player wrote: Pierre wrote: So you acknowledge that I am right but that somehow the fact they only do it for one case diminishes that? No...I think that's fine...even the person you are quoting said "well the cast is so huge now I think that's understandable." I didn't say that it was understandable. I said that was a separate problem :P Trucy is amazing, and while giving her an actual role in one case is a huge step up from "Hi, magic panties magic panties magic panties, bye!" in DD, it's still a far cry from her in AJ. Small victories are worth celebrating |
Author: | linkenski [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Gerkuman wrote: This was an amazing case, but then, I like pretty much everything so I dunno if my opinion counts for anything. That being said, I don't get the whole 'it sucks that court dialogue is being treated differently' argument; As Prosecutor Sadmahdhi says 'let it go.' Then again, people said the same to me when I objected to Nick becoming main protagonist again, so maybe I'm not being reasonable. Nah, it's good to be optimistic, and I concede that my talking about the way they talk in court is in itself a nitpick... But it's a nitpick that contributes to the general problem I've had with the Yamazaki games that they can make me tune out after a while because they get self-indulgent in the details too often and the pacing suffers. I agree that it's nice Trucy gets her time to shine in this one case as opposed to not at all, but at worst this gives SoJ a JFA-like feel where each episode is just its own story, and while that's okay I think the series is usually at its best when it has a sense of an arc between the cases and that also means focusing on a set cast throughout the game and Trucy still suffers from being a previous main character who was relegated to a minor character. It's good enough, but it used to be that this franchise was above being "just good enough" IMHO |
Author: | Klonoahedgehog [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
linkenski wrote: Trucy still suffers from being a previous main character who was relegated to a minor character. It's seriously bugging me that people keep pretending she's a main character when she's been replaced already. The only reason this case even exists is because of this mindset. |
Author: | Blizdi [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Absolutely no one refers to her as a main character, not the promos nor the press releases |
Author: | Bad Player [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
She might not be a "main character," but she'll always have an "important role" as long as Apollo and Nick are main characters. If they try to sweep her away like in DD, they're just going to get repeats of the same complaint like in DD-5 where people went "Nick's daughter has been kidnapped, and the one he's worried about is Athena?" (and if she's going to have an important role, she may as well be a main character) |
Author: | Blizdi [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Bad Player wrote: She might not be a "main character," but she'll always have an "important role" as long as Apollo and Nick are main characters. If they try to sweep her away like in DD, they're just going to get repeats of the same complaint like in DD-5 where people went "Nick's daughter has been kidnapped, and the one he's worried about is Athena?" (and if she's going to have an important role, she may as well be a main character) But this game isn't about the Gramarye's, it's about the kingdom |
Author: | linkenski [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Then this is the fault of 6-2 for even bringing up the Gramaryes. After AJAA I fully expected that if they continued that part of the franchise it would be about her and Apollo going forward, but with DD they decided to take a different approach which is fine, but because people complainied that it wasn't a nice continuation of AJAA they now felt like addressing it, but it causes problems and draws attention away from the plotline SoJ seems to be going for. Knowing the remaining trials in America has nothing to do with Trucy or this Gramarye stuff I can already tell how this whole thing is going to smell by the end (not SoJ as a whole, but the AJAA-side) If this (SoJ) isn't the continuation of the plot where she was the main character (AJ:AA), why is it in the game? I think 6-2 is decent in its own mystery. A nicely small cast, fun mystery and a nice general theme about showbiz, but then they have to distract with the "Gramaryes" immediately drawing you back into the AJAA universe and making it feel like this is a continuation of AJAA in a sense. I think Trucy is definitely a main character in AJAA, and unless she has an ongoing arc with this game or future titles, what's the point of reemphasising the plot threads of that game than to hammer into the ground how much Trucy's role has been diminished in the grand scheme of things? I know this sounds like a case of "Damned if you do/don't" but what I want is that if they decide it's time for "more trucy" like this, they should've stuck to their guns and do it the rest of the game instead of deciding to make an Athena Cykes case in case 4 or focus on Phoenix and Maya next. I have a bad feeling this game is going to be a series of rushed closure for all prior plotlines. I think they could've had a case where Trucy is being put on trial and Apollo defends her without making it feel annoying with how much she's been cast aside, but because so many elements in 6-2 exists to feign a sense of "continued from AJAA" it sticks out like a sore thumb how Trucy is still been completely reduced as a character all over again once the plot moves on from 6-2. I don't wanna give off the impression that I dislke SoJ or anything now. It's just specifically this which has to do with 6-2 is a bummer IMHO, but yes, of course I still appreciate seeing Trucy not being completely flanderized like in DD for what it's worth |
Author: | Pierre [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
I don't mind filler cases and I'm really glad they at least acknowledged the continuation of AA4 because it felt so out of place. I am 100% fine with the case at this point in time Feel I need to throw out that disclaimer, getting awful negative around here. I don't think everything needs to tie into an overarching narrative. It's cool yeah but not a "must". |
Author: | Klonoahedgehog [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
linkenski wrote: Then this is the fault of 6-2 for even bringing up the Gramaryes. After AJAA I fully expected that if they continued that part of the franchise it would be about her and Apollo going forward, but with DD they decided to take a different approach which is fine, but because people complainied that it wasn't a nice continuation of AJAA they now felt like addressing it, but it causes problems and draws attention away from the plotline SoJ seems to be going for. Knowing the remaining trials in America has nothing to do with Trucy or this Gramarye stuff I can already tell how this whole thing is going to smell by the end (not SoJ as a whole, but the AJAA-side) This is a massive problem with the current staff, they want to please literally everyone so instead of making one cohesive narrative they feel the need to shoehorn in old plotlines in games that don't need them. 6-2 literally could have been about anything else and the overarching narrative would have been relatively the same. Either make Trucy the main character she's supposed to be or don't put her in at all, same with Athena and Maya. If your just gonna halfass it why even bother? Blizdi wrote: But this game isn't about the Gramarye's, it's about the kingdom Then why bring it up to begin with? |
Author: | Cream Soda [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Is this the only case 2 in the series that's been a one day trial? or am I mistaken? Either way, I still enjoyed it quite thoroughly |
Author: | Bad Player [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Klonoahedgehog wrote: This is a massive problem with the current staff, they want to please literally everyone so instead of making one cohesive narrative they feel the need to shoehorn in old plotlines in games that don't need them. 6-2 literally could have been about anything else and the overarching narrative would have been relatively the same. Yeah, and they brought this upon themselves by bringing back Nick and introducing Athena in DD. With three protagonists hogging the spotlight, there just isn't enough room to then give each of their peripheral characters time to shine. They could try cutting out one or two of the main attorneys, but that'll piss off some portion of the fanbase, so they might instead just keep playing the "safe" route, and continue giving increasingly smaller slices of the pie to an increasing large cast of characters. Spoiler: End of case 5 |
Author: | Pierre [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
That or they pull a pokemon and make separate games based around each of the attorneys. |
Author: | Klonoahedgehog [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Pierre wrote: That or they pull a pokemon and make separate games based around each of the attorneys. That was actually the first idea for AA6, Apollo justice Red and Phoenix Wright Blue. But Yamazaki didn't want to put in the effort of making 8 to 10 cases so it was scrapped, at least that's what i remember hearing. |
Author: | Pierre [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Klonoahedgehog wrote: Pierre wrote: That or they pull a pokemon and make separate games based around each of the attorneys. That was actually the first idea for AA6, Apollo justice Red and Phoenix Wright Blue. But Yamazaki didn't want to put in the effort of making 8 to 10 cases so it was scrapped, at least that's what i remember hearing. I can get that as well...its not like pokemon where most of the assets are reused. It literally is double the work. Also I can't quite get Roger Retinz pun.... It could be that his surname can sound similar to ratings but after Pees'lubn Andistan'dhin its pretty weak |
Author: | Kessler [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Pierre wrote: Klonoahedgehog wrote: Pierre wrote: That or they pull a pokemon and make separate games based around each of the attorneys. That was actually the first idea for AA6, Apollo justice Red and Phoenix Wright Blue. But Yamazaki didn't want to put in the effort of making 8 to 10 cases so it was scrapped, at least that's what i remember hearing. I can get that as well...its not like pokemon where most of the assets are reused. It literally is double the work. Also I can't quite get Roger Retinz pun.... It could be that his surname can sound similar to ratings but after Pees'lubn Andistan'dhin its pretty weak The pun is that he's the "Ratings Rajah" and if you switch his first and last name, his name becomes "Retinz Roger" say that out loud and you'll probably get it. |
Author: | FenrirDarkWolf [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Cream Soda wrote: Is this the only case 2 in the series that's been a one day trial? or am I mistaken? Either way, I still enjoyed it quite thoroughly Aside from tutorial cases. 5-5 is day inv.-one trial. 3-4 and 6-4 are one day trials as well. |
Author: | ThePaSch [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
linkenski wrote: but it causes problems and draws attention away from the plotline SoJ seems to be going for. I disagree with this. One of the major running themes of SoJ so far - having just started Case 5 - seems to be "standing up to heavy public pressure". It's happened in every case so far; obviously predominantly in the Khura'in trials, but every case alludes to the concept. Spoiler: AA6-1 to AA6-4 In this regard, 6-2 fits perfectly into the narrative arc. One could argue that there couldn't really be a better setting for it and that Trucy and her involvement in the showbiz are a natural fit for the theme. Sure, they may not have picked up on every single plotline from AJ, and sure, they may not have dedicated half the game to something they made pretty clear they aren't interested in exploring any further, but honestly, I think it's time to - quote - "let it go and move on". The case works great for what it is, and it doesn't feel out-of-place to me whatsoever. |
Author: | tiger_festival [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Spoiler: What a beautiful Duwang Okay, on a serious note, I really liked this case. Returning to the Gramaryes was great, the actual crime was intriguing (if a bit complicated), and the deductions were comparatively challenging. I know I complained about the Spoiler: Nahyuta, though, I'm not really sold on. Given the direction the end of the case hints at, I don't think I'll be all over his character by the end. Also, small thing that bugged me: Spoiler: |
Author: | linkenski [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Pierre wrote: That or they pull a pokemon and make separate games based around each of the attorneys. Because that would be super great result when everything is so dependant on the writing :3 I actually love that idea but it's not realistic unless there was 3 Yamazakis or if Takumi liked to work with other people on writing stuff. (Lol why am I taking it seriously?) But anywhoo, I'm not sure I really like case 2 that much... or well, I do, because like I said I like the characters and the fact that this case is so simple. Apollo is cool, helping Trucy is cool and I like how overdramatic it is with how Apollo has to do or die figuratively speaking. At times it feels too much with the stakes set so high from this early on, but it also reminds me of the first game which did this with 1-2, a case I fucking love, so in that way I kinda dig case 2. But there are annoyances and I wouldn't be surprised if I look back on the game at some point and think of this case as the bad one. A shame because I love playing as Apollo to be honest. The thing about the case is that its own stuff is fine, the killers, the crime, defending Trucy -- but the baggage of all the Gramarye stuff and giving Trucy some "Backstory(TM)" really distracts me from those things that are really good about it. On another note, I think Nahyuta has to grown on me before I like him. I had nothing against Blackquill -- didn't particularly "love" him as much as other prosecutors, but Nahyuta is giving me Courtney-vibes and i hope that eventaully I start caring more about him. |
Author: | MrCafecito [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
sumguy28 wrote: Also, small thing that bugged me: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | linkenski [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Lol, I picked the wrong answer and the Judge referenced Recipe for Turnabout |
Author: | Jean Descole [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
I can actually I enjoyed this one quite a bit. Everything seemed to flow smoothly, though it got a little weird toward the end. It was like they took one part 1-3 and one part 2-3 and scrambled them together to get the murder method. And even then, the remote control thing came out of left field (even though there are electric winches you can control wirelessly). Spoiler: Roger Spoiler: Bonny Spoiler: Sahdmadhi Spoiler: Ema Spoiler: Trucy Spoiler: Apollo |
Author: | Kessler [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Thank you for the hasmter video |
Author: | Ash [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:34 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
ThePaSch wrote: linkenski wrote: but it causes problems and draws attention away from the plotline SoJ seems to be going for. I disagree with this. One of the major running themes of SoJ so far - having just started Case 5 - seems to be "standing up to heavy public pressure". It's happened in every case so far; obviously predominantly in the Khura'in trials, but every case alludes to the concept. Spoiler: AA6-1 to AA6-4 In this regard, 6-2 fits perfectly into the narrative arc. One could argue that there couldn't really be a better setting for it and that Trucy and her involvement in the showbiz are a natural fit for the theme. Sure, they may not have picked up on every single plotline from AJ, and sure, they may not have dedicated half the game to something they made pretty clear they aren't interested in exploring any further, but honestly, I think it's time to - quote - "let it go and move on". The case works great for what it is, and it doesn't feel out-of-place to me whatsoever. You're on the right track, and you'll probably notice it better by the time you finish the game, but while they said the theme of the game was "the Revolution of the Court" in the marketing campaign, it's not the real theme of the game (the developers also mention this in post-release interviews). But they can't mention the real theme without kinda spoiling where the game wants to go. 6-2 definitely fits within the real theme. Spoiler: |
Author: | Gerkuman [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
This is a really great case, and I have to say, despite the fact that they are the villain in a non-final case, the culprit in this case may be my favourite. Spoiler: 6-2 |
Author: | Dani [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
linkenski wrote: Lol, I picked the wrong answer and the Judge referenced Recipe for Turnabout Can you elaborate? Anyway, I'll start this off by saying I thoroughly enjoyed the case. I liked the killer, the format (One investigation and one trial worked very well for this case and splitting it into more days for the sake of making it seem longer would suck. For example, there is no reason for Turnabout Samurai to be three days long.), and the setting/case in general. There are some things that bugged me, however. Usually, the cases follow a logical thread. In this one, however, I got confused a bit by some leaps in logic that Apollo made. Am I just dumb? Spoiler: 6-2 |
Author: | Thunder84 [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Dani wrote: Spoiler: 6-2 Spoiler: |
Author: | Dani [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Thunder84 wrote: Spoiler: .............oh. |
Author: | MrCafecito [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
So, I have 2 questions about the case: Spoiler: And Spoiler: |
Author: | Dani [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
MrCafecito wrote: Spoiler: This is not how anything works. |
Author: | MBr [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Ash wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | Proyectil [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Well, I've already finished it and I've loved it! One of the best second cases of all the franchise. I understand some of the complains most of you have, but overall I think this case is great, it had great twists and all the characters were at least ok! More impressions in the spoiler: Spoiler: So far so good. Next step: case 3! |
Author: | linkenski [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Still on this case. I wasted about 10 strikes on that mood matrix segment where you have to present evidence (like a testimony without "press") because I was unsure what I was supposed to prove. I've had 1 strike left for the rest of the case so far and boy, this game has a bad tendency to telegraph the answers way too clearly, kinda like DD but I almost feel SoJ is even easier, it's a total cakewalk. Spoiler: Video tape Anyway, I'm wasting the remaining strike on saying Trucy and Retinz are dating. That's too crazy Also, the presentation is great. So many surprises where the developers put extra work into creating unique set-piece animations. And lastly, Bonny is... I still don't know what I think about the character. I feel she has potential to be very memorable but she's also kind of uninspired at times, Spoiler: Bonny |
Author: | linkenski [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Dani wrote: linkenski wrote: Lol, I picked the wrong answer and the Judge referenced Recipe for Turnabout Can you elaborate? Spoiler: 3-3 & 6-2 |
Author: | calumnw [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Spoiler: |
Author: | Rubia Ryu the Royal [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
calumnw wrote: Spoiler: Spoiler: |
Author: | scarlet-flowers [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
I can not gush enough about how much I loved this case??? I love the sprite animations so much, especially Spoiler: This case definitely threw me for some loops, like with Spoiler: My only gripe I guess would be Spoiler: linkenski wrote: I can't really think of any beyond "It would be cool" or "I don't want to write two entire days of this case. It's too much plotting!" Late reply, but possible justification is that Retinez said he would seize the WAA by tomorrow if Trucy wasn't proven innocent by then, so they had to do it in one go. |
Author: | FenrirDarkWolf [ Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
scarlet-flowers wrote: linkenski wrote: I can't really think of any beyond "It would be cool" or "I don't want to write two entire days of this case. It's too much plotting!" Late reply, but possible justification is that Retinez said he would seize the WAA by tomorrow if Trucy wasn't proven innocent by then, so they had to do it in one go. I thought in an interview they stated that Case 2 was condensed so Case 4 could be placed in the main game. I'm not complaining tho, I love them both. |
Author: | Thunder84 [ Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Yeesh, is it really that hard to make a game with 5 full cases in it? Not counting DLC/Rise from the Ashes, every main series game has had either 4 cases, or 5 cases with 2 one day trials or just split a case in half. |
Author: | Pierre [ Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:36 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Case two discussion thread (tagged spoilers) |
Anyone think Athena is a but flanderised in this? It almost feels like they swapped her and Trucy around where Athena seems far more childish than ever before. And Trucy behaves like a boss as she should have done in AA5 |
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