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Most tragic character? (Possible Spoilers)Topic%20Title
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For me it's Dahlia.
Spoiler: 3-1, 3-4, 3-5
Yeah, sure. She's evil. But it's just not her fault. Iris herself said so. She never got any love from her dad, and if only she had been left at Hazakura Temple with Iris, things would have turned out very differently. She practically got killed because of her dad.


So, who is most tragic in your eyes?
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Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.

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Yeah, him too. Poor guy. He never deserved it.
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Yanni Yogi. Forced to live an insane life while sane.
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Diego, for the above reason (except for the life in jail / execution part, which I don't see coming).


Last edited by Szabu on Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoiler: 2-3
I guess it would have to be either acro or bat if you ask me. Bat was in a coma over a joke, and Acro accidently killed the person that brought him in from abandonment, and had to live with it the rest of his life(or was he executed? :eh?: )

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Well, :yogi: and :tea: are tragic characters, in my opinion.

Spoiler: 1-4
Yogi had to pretend he was senile while getting von Karma'd, nearly died in an elevator, and lost his wife because of it all.


Spoiler: 2-2, 3-5
As for Morgan, she lost her first 2 kids to Mr. Hawthorne, who abandoned one of them at a temple. Her second husband left too, after they had Pearl. Above it all, she grew up knowing her sister would "take what was rightfully hers" and that she would not be able to be the Master, especially after Misty had Mia and Maya.


I think :devasque: and :elise: are fairly tragic as well, though not so much as Yogi and Morgan.
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I'll also say Dahlia, for the reasons given above and more.

Scarf wrote:
Spoiler: 2-2, 3-5
As for Morgan, she lost her first 2 kids to Mr. Hawthorne, who abandoned one of them at a temple. Her second husband left too, after they had Pearl. Above it all, she grew up knowing her sister would "take what was rightfully hers" and that she would not be able to be the Master, especially after Misty had Mia and Maya.

Spoiler: 3-5
I don't think Morgan particularly cared that she lost her first two children. She at least knew where Iris was (how else could she formulate her plan?) but didn't make any attempt to get her back, and had no problem with trying to murder Dahlia just to hurry her plan to kill Maya along.

Besides, they couldn't channel spirits, so they wouldn't help her regain her family's position as the main branch.

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Ollie wrote:
Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.


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Perhaps I'm biased, but for me it's definitely Edgeworth.
Spoiler:
Hey was just a precocious, adorable nine-year-old boy when his only parent was brutally murdered simply because he brought the truth to light. Not only did he have to harbor the secret that he thought was so true--that he killed his own father--for fifteen long, painful years, but he was raised by the man who actually did kill his dad but just let Edgey think he did.

Think about it--nine years old, one day you're going to court with your beloved dad, next day you think you killed him and you have to live in a strange house with a scary two year old and a cruel man. He quickly lost the ability to trust anyone and hid all of his feelings behind a mask of perfection and work.

At least his story has a happy ending, but still, until then, I think it's the saddest.

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book of life wrote:
Ollie wrote:
Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.


This is the boat I'm in.


As am I, although I like to think that a boatload of strings were pulled by everyone to stay his fate, thus leading to a scene I'd love to see in GK, with him in a park, with a thermos of Coffee in hand.
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I sorta wanna say Gregory here, although I do agree for Yanni and Diego quite a bit.

Spoiler: 1-4
Gregory was really inspiring in the sense that he. although loosing the trial, felt accomplished in the fact that he brought a truth about von Karma to light, but he didn't know he was shot for that reason. What got me was the idea that he didn't know who killed him, and after being channeled, he thought it was, in fact, his son. So I think he basically forced himself to do the same thing von Karma did/go against his own ethics to protect his son.
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I'm going to say something that probably no one will agree with... But, here you go.

Spoiler: 1-4
In my opinion, the most tragic character is Mr. von Karma.
Now, before you start throwing stuff at me, listen to my reasoning...
Manfred von Karma was a prosecuting genius. He was the best prosecutor of all time, and brought many guilty criminals to justice... However, that's when his vice takes over. His obsession with perfection eventually takes over, causing him to forge evidence, coerce testimonies and the like. In the end, it even caused him to commit murder, all for a trial record. He could have been one of the most effective fighters for truth and justice, but alas, it was not meant to be. It is a tragedy. A self-inflicted tragedy, but a tragedy nonetheless.

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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Perhaps I'm biased, but for me it's definitely Edgeworth.
Spoiler:
Hey was just a precocious, adorable nine-year-old boy when his only parent was brutally murdered simply because he brought the truth to light. Not only did he have to harbor the secret that he thought was so true--that he killed his own father--for fifteen long, painful years, but he was raised by the man who actually did kill his dad but just let Edgey think he did.

Think about it--nine years old, one day you're going to court with your beloved dad, next day you think you killed him and you have to live in a strange house with a scary two year old and a cruel man. He quickly lost the ability to trust anyone and hid all of his feelings behind a mask of perfection and work.

At least his story has a happy ending, but still, until then, I think it's the saddest.


I totally agree with you. ^_^ When I think "tragic character," Edgeworth pops to the front of my mind first.
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I'm with everybody whose with Diego as well, but I think that Adrian or Celeste Inpax might possibly fit the bill as well.

Spoiler: 2-4
Well, here Celeste is, working as a manager for the stars; in love with the man she's in charge of and planning to be happily married.

Thenm, however, her marriage is broken all because of the fact that she once was with Matt. Juan of course, dumps her and breaks their engagement- all because he can't get over the fact she was once with Matt. He can't have sloppy seconds after his greatest rival, after all. SO in the end, Celeste kills herself, all because she was caught in between two big stars in the ruthless environment that is fame.

And, due to this, Adrian loses her mentor. She lost more than her mentor, actually; she lost one of the people in the world that she depended the most on. So for want of Celeste's last words, she begins to start dating a man that she detests, just so she can get to that one last bit that Celeste left in the world. She works for and plots against Matt, because it's his fault that Celeste is gone too.

Then it happens; Juan is murdered, and in anger, she stabs his corpse with a knife. She winds up in court, and ends up being accused as the murderer and nearly proven guilty, even though Phoenix knows she's innocent (but i don't have any hate toward Phoenix, since he had no choice) Then, when the truth comes out, it looks like the one thing she had striven to get, the one thing she had worked for ever since Celeste's suicide, wasn't there, and all was for naught. (However, it did all turn out for the best)

Plus, she had (looks like she's gotten over the most of it in T&T) a condition which made her cling and be very dependent, no matter how much she didn't want to.

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Just got dragged into the mess .

And :godot:
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Spoiler: 3-5
Godot, most definitley.
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Xanatos wrote:
book of life wrote:
Ollie wrote:
Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.


This is the boat I'm in.


As am I, although I like to think that a boatload of strings were pulled by everyone to stay his fate, thus leading to a scene I'd love to see in GK, with him in a park, with a thermos of Coffee in hand.


/signed 100%.
Especially for the part that he doesn't die or gets thrown in jail for his whole life.
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crouton wrote:
ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
Perhaps I'm biased, but for me it's definitely Edgeworth.
Spoiler:
Hey was just a precocious, adorable nine-year-old boy when his only parent was brutally murdered simply because he brought the truth to light. Not only did he have to harbor the secret that he thought was so true--that he killed his own father--for fifteen long, painful years, but he was raised by the man who actually did kill his dad but just let Edgey think he did.

Think about it--nine years old, one day you're going to court with your beloved dad, next day you think you killed him and you have to live in a strange house with a scary two year old and a cruel man. He quickly lost the ability to trust anyone and hid all of his feelings behind a mask of perfection and work.

At least his story has a happy ending, but still, until then, I think it's the saddest.


I totally agree with you. ^_^ When I think "tragic character," Edgeworth pops to the front of my mind first.



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For some reason, I think that Phoenix is the most tragic character even though he had a good childhood.

Spoiler: Possibly the entire second half of Trials & Tribulations and onward
But in his college years, a bunch of crap happened to him over a murder that Dahlia committed. Then even after he became a lawyer, he still had a depressed side of him that couldn't let go of that same event that happened. Then after that, he ended up going through all of this crap that ended in him losing his badge and now he's living as a hobo.


I agree with some other characters, but Phoenix stood out a lot more in my mind. Don't kill me! It's just my opinion!
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Spoiler: 2-2
Mini Miney.

Getting way overworked, ending up in a malpractice where 14 people died because of her. Then having to lose her sister in a car crash. As tragic as that already is, she had to hide behind her sister's face for so long. Even though she absolutely hated it.
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xXBloodstainedLieXx wrote:
For some reason, I think that Phoenix is the most tragic character even though he had a good childhood.

Spoiler: Possibly the entire second half of Trials & Tribulations and onward
But in his college years, a bunch of crap happened to him over a murder that Dahlia committed. Then even after he became a lawyer, he still had a depressed side of him that couldn't let go of that same event that happened. Then after that, he ended up going through all of this crap that ended in him losing his badge and now he's living as a hobo.


I agree with some other characters, but Phoenix stood out a lot more in my mind. Don't kill me! It's just my opinion!

I could see that.

Spoiler: T&T and AJ
He's suffered a hell of a lot, from being accused of murder (3 times), to nearly losing his best friend/assistant to an assassin and to a cold fate. I believe someone says at one point that he had the eyes that hid the most sadness that he/she had ever seen (or woe, or worry, or something. Someone wanna help me out here? :D). He loses his license to do the one thing he thinks can help people, and resorts to a low paying job playing piano and cards.


While there have been several examples of tragic characters, and indeed some are tear-jerking, I still stand by my assertion that Mr. 3-5 is the most tragic.
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I still stand by Edgeworth, but I'm surprise no one's mentioned
Spoiler: T&T
Terry Fawles. Unconditional trust led to prison and suicide, after all.

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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
I still stand by Edgeworth, but I'm surprise no one's mentioned
Spoiler: T&T
Terry Fawles. Unconditional trust led to prison and suicide, after all.


Well, he IS a pretty tragic character, I would never deny that, but in my opinion, he's not the MOST tragic one.
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ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
I still stand by Edgeworth, but I'm surprise no one's mentioned
Spoiler: T&T
Terry Fawles. Pedophelia led to prison and suicide, after all.


There, I fixed it for you. :redd: (I know, 14, but just saying...)

I don't think of Dahlia or Terry as particularly "tragic". When you purposefully set out to do something that you know is going to hurt people, and you end up punished because of it, and feel absolutely no remose outside of the fact that you got caught... That's not tragic, that's reaping what you sow.

For me, it's Acro. Yes his acts were just as deliberate and purposeful, but he was driven to it and afterwards felt a great deal of guilt. I guess I can't think of a person or situation as tragic unless there's a great deal of emotion invested.
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I might have to go out on a limb and say Phoenix here, well, I would go with a certain other God-ly character, but they've been tdoen three times before.
Spoiler: whole series
First, he's used by Dahlia Hawthorne and almost found guilty of murder for it, despite that she done it. His dream job of becoming an attorney did not have an easy start, as after his first trial, his mentor, and the woman who'd proven his innocence, was brutally murdered. He then had to take the wright of her family and support them, while fighting so much prejudice against him, even being forced to turn on his friends for the sake of finding the truth. And then, when it's all going well for him, he is tricked into forging evidence and loses everything that he ever worked for, living a life of seclusion, apparently without his old companions, being forced to live through a new rookiee, and support an adoptive daughter with very little income.
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Ollie wrote:
Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.

Yup, him.
Phoenix has a pretty tragic story, too.
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
I'll also say Dahlia, for the reasons given above and more.

Spoiler: 3-5
I don't think Morgan particularly cared that she lost her first two children. She at least knew where Iris was (how else could she formulate her plan?) but didn't make any attempt to get her back, and had no problem with trying to murder Dahlia just to hurry her plan to kill Maya along.

Besides, they couldn't channel spirits, so they wouldn't help her regain her family's position as the main branch.


I don't really mean to debate something like this, but

Spoiler: 3-5
I have a hard time believing that even Morgan could not care about who we assume to be her first two kids. Perhaps at first she just thought Iris could be happier at Hazakurain? :yogi:

As for Dahlia, it doesn't justify her actions, but the game does imply that they'd both be given the death penalty anyway, so she could have been thinking in a "why don't we die for our family instead" kind of way.

A lot of Morgan's past seems to be up to fan speculation, as to what she was thinking about Dahlia and Iris, as well as her ex-husbands.

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Adrian, Godot, or Turner Grey
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Croik wrote:
ILikeShinyMirrors wrote:
I still stand by Edgeworth, but I'm surprise no one's mentioned
Spoiler: T&T
Terry Fawles. Pedophelia led to prison and suicide, after all.


There, I fixed it for you. :redd: (I know, 14, but just saying...)

I don't think of Dahlia or Terry as particularly "tragic". When you purposefully set out to do something that you know is going to hurt people, and you end up punished because of it, and feel absolutely no remose outside of the fact that you got caught... That's not tragic, that's reaping what you sow.


Oooh, yeah, you have a point there. XD Now I remember when I was playing that case thinking 'what the heck she's 14' and 'Teen Angel is just creepy' and the like. But I've heard of people who cried when he...erm, well you know, so I thought I'd bring him up. :edgy:
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et91 wrote:
Adrian, Godot, or Turner Grey


Interesting choice with Grey. I don't see a whole lot of tragedy (Besides the weather :grey: ).
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Spiker wrote:
et91 wrote:
Adrian, Godot, or Turner Grey


Interesting choice with Grey. I don't see a whole lot of tragedy (Besides the weather :grey: ).


Depends on if you believe him over Mimi, I guess. If you look at it from Grey's POV, we don't know that he did anything wrong other than be unlikeable by most people. His nurse screwed up and he took the blame, and then she died and he took the blame, all in all ruining his career. When he finally tried to learn the truth, he was murdered for it.

On the other hand, it's pretty obvious that his bedside manner wasn't the greatest to begin with, so it's his own fault for being a cruel, whip-lashing boss with no manners and a crazy face! :grey:

Personally I liked Grey, I thought he was funny <3
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Scarf wrote:

Spoiler: 3-5
I have a hard time believing that even Morgan could not care about who we assume to be her first two kids. Perhaps at first she just thought Iris could be happier at Hazakurain? :yogi:

Spoiler: 3-5
Why not. Not all parents have 'unconditional love' for their children. Morgan wanted children for the purpose of being a Kurain heir and when they didn't fulfill this gratifying role (no spiritual powers) they were disposable to her and a mere 'burden'. (And probably a slap in the face reminding herself she had no spiritual powers, hence even less reason to want them 'hanging around'.) She only took a re-interest in Dahlia when she thought she could get something out of her. It happens. Particularly with someone like Morgan so warped as to think murder is acceptable to get what she wants.
Re: Most tragic character? (Possible Spoilers)Topic%20Title
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In Justice We Trust

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Let's see... There are a few that crossed my mind.

Spoiler: various games
Yanni Yogi--Thanks to the misfortune of being aboard a faulty elevator, he was accused of murder, robbed of every last shred of his pride by a corrupt defense attorney, and lost his fiancée to the insanity plea that Hammond employed.
Acro--Let's see... Thanks to an innocent practical joke, he essentially lost his younger brother.
Juan Corrida--We never got much of a chance to truly discover his mindset with regards to Celeste and her past. A moment of weakness led to Celeste's suicide. Even if he was angry over her past relationship with Matt, I imagine he suffered a great deal of psychological torment from learning that his weakness cost him someone he loved. That anguish likely changed to anger toward Matt for using his emotions against him. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought of Matt as having indirectly killed Celeste, using Juan's emotions as the murder weapon.
Celeste Inpax--Being used by Matt, then being abandoned by Juan over a matter of pride, is more than enough to warrant sympathy from me.
Dahlia Hawthorne--After going through a life like hers, I imagine few people would actually come out of it unscathed. Already I am turned to thoughts of a certain Georgian peasant whose cruelty is well-known and the torturous life that contributed to it widely ignored. I also felt sorry for her when Mia spoke to her in Bridge to the Turnabout; it came off to me as Mia essentially kicking Dahlia while she was down. My image of Mia was dramatically damaged by that particular moment.
Diego Armando--He lost almost everything that he felt gave his life purpose while he was unconscious.
Kristoph Gavin--Living in fear for seven years simply because of a moment of selfishness is enough to make me sympathize with him. We don't get any real insight into his motives. With people like Dahlia, we still saw what led to their actions. With Kristoph, it's entirely possible that he is not as "evil" of a person as his crimes would have you believe.
Valant Gramarye--He lost to Zak in his work, possibly in love, was worked "to the pain" and blackmailed by his mentor, and ultimately got shoved out of the picture completely when Magnifi passed his magic on to Zak. In all honesty, I don't hold any of his actions against him, given what he's been through.

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I'll always love you, Max.
Re: Most tragic character? (Possible Spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Have a foolishly Merry Xmas

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I have to agree on Phoenix. He tries so hard to help people out and well...
Spoiler:
being accused of murder numerous times, all for trying to help people (Dahlia, Maya), then finally getting the door closed on the whole mess brought about by the Feys involvement in DL-6 to only lose his badge and his career, all through no fault of his own.


He made me cry more than any other character in the whole series.
Spoiler:
Burn in hell, :garyuu:


Although I also think Gumshoe's pretty tragic in his own way. Trying to do a good job, and getting his pay cut every other week by the prosecutors for basically just being an idiot. Living on instant ramen and harboring possibly unrequited affection towards Maggey.
Re: Most tragic character? (Possible Spoilers)Topic%20Title
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Yo Dawg!

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Ollie wrote:
Tragic? Mr. 3-5, for sure.

Spoiler: :D
He was a humble defense attorney, committed to finding justice.

Then he was poisoned and lost several months of his life. When he awoke, his nervous system was wrecked. Eyes shot, hair white. The love of his life was murdered, cut down in her prime. He can only find solace in exacting revenge on the only person he can, whom he says is the reason for her death. Of course, we all know how much solace vengeance gives us. Especially when he failed twice in getting that vengeance.

Then, minding his own business, he discovered a murder plot. So, he goes to stop it. In the process, he kills someone in order to protect someone. The result? He goes to jail for life, or, perhaps, executed.

Doesn't get much more tragic than that.

this. can't get more tragic than that.
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Re: Most tragic character? (Possible Spoilers)Topic%20Title

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I think it's either Acro or Terry. Acro's story I find especially sad because of the way everyone else describes him as having been the nicest and most well-adjusted person at the circus, and he ended up being the most messed up one of all.

I do think Phoenix's life is pretty sad, but it's hard for me to see him as a really tragic character because he was always able to shake off these misfortunes, even if it took years. His irrepressible spirit has always kept him going.

Spoiler: 4-4
I also think Valant is pretty tragic, because he knew, deep down, that he lacked the skill necessary to succeed on his own, but couldn't truly face up to it, so he hid behind masks and let his own failures consume him.
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