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Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Did Miles Edgeworth actually forge evidence?
It was revealed in 1-5 that
Spoiler: 1-5
However, in the early stages of the first game Phoenix said that rumors about the demon attorney were of: "Forged evidence, arranged testimonies" ect.
Now, did all these all arise from that one case? Or is there more behind it?
Detective Gumshoe himself once commented that: "Yeah, his methods are a little extreme at times..."
So that makes me wonder if that's implying that he did forge evidence. Since Gumshoe is the detective in charge of what seems to be all cases involving Edgeworth, he would be one to notice a discrepancy between evidence presented in a trial and evidence he actually found.
If that's the case, does that make Detective Gumshoe an accessory to evidence forgery?
Also, I don't see a place where the arranged testimony bit could have arose. It is shown in the early cases that he does indeed ask the witnesses not to say certain things, so maybe he does?
Spoiler: 1-5
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Edgeworth didn't mean to
here the explantation:
Spoiler:
Lana and Gant have no evidence against him
Jake's brother is killed by Joe
presents a false testimony (she didn't mean to)
Rumors are spread - he doesn't no it was forged
I think it's right.. though I may have got some of it muddled up 
sorry if I did 
hope it explains everything
Also when Gumshoe says
his methods are a bit extremeit was probably tactics which were passed on through
(stuff like hiding evidence, fixed testimonies etc.)
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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In one of the cases I think gumshoe says
Not many people like Edgeworth and would do anything to lower his name. Ah I'm confused with what I just wrote,
hopefully it makes sense to you
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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It's also implied that he has used forged evidence in other cases, but it's never made clear whether or not he was aware of it. As for the altered testimonies, he obviously knew about those, which implies that he didn't see omissions as wrong--possibly because he didn't see the omitted information as relevant or believed it was a dead end, though I have no proof that that's the case.
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Xero Wright wrote:
Just a question - what about the altered evidence in 1-2? The autopsy report?
Can you prove he knew it was forged?
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Croik wrote:
In 3-1 Phoenix talked about how he wanted to become a lawyer to help Edgeworth, which from 1-4 we know would have been after the rumors about Edgeworth's immoral conduct started circulating. But 3-1 takes place after the SL-9 case, which implies there were at least some rumors even before the whole Gant shebang.
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Also, isn't SL-9 (1-5) considered retcon anyway. I think I remember Edgeworth saying something in 2-4 that he used every dirty trick in the book before he was enlightened (I guess in his travels of self discovery in Europe).
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Lunaria42 wrote:
Croik wrote:
In 3-1 Phoenix talked about how he wanted to become a lawyer to help Edgeworth, which from 1-4 we know would have been after the rumors about Edgeworth's immoral conduct started circulating. But 3-1 takes place after the SL-9 case, which implies there were at least some rumors even before the whole Gant shebang.
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Also, isn't SL-9 (1-5) considered retcon anyway. I think I remember Edgeworth saying something in 2-4 that he used every dirty trick in the book before he was enlightened (I guess in his travels of self discovery in Europe).
It's still canon. Or else a lot of AJ:AA would have to be explained.
Besides, I always wondered why the localisation team couldn't have made references to 1-5 in the other games. Is it really that hard?
Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Harry Miste wrote:
Lunaria42 wrote:
Croik wrote:
In 3-1 Phoenix talked about how he wanted to become a lawyer to help Edgeworth, which from 1-4 we know would have been after the rumors about Edgeworth's immoral conduct started circulating. But 3-1 takes place after the SL-9 case, which implies there were at least some rumors even before the whole Gant shebang.
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Plus, his mentor was von Karma, and Edgeworth himself admitted that he would do anything to win. Even if he's never outright forged evidence, we have seen him manipulate witness testimony (which in the AA world is sometimes treated as more important than evidence).
Also, isn't SL-9 (1-5) considered retcon anyway. I think I remember Edgeworth saying something in 2-4 that he used every dirty trick in the book before he was enlightened (I guess in his travels of self discovery in Europe).
It's still canon. Or else a lot of AJ:AA would have to be explained.
Besides, I always wondered why the localisation team couldn't have made references to 1-5 in the other games. Is it really that hard?
I don't mean that everything is retcon; I guess I should have been clearer. I mean most of the stuff about Edgeworth's personality is retcon. It says one thing in 2-4 about him using every ditry trick in the book, but in 1-5 he says he never meant to be such a demon or use dirty tactics (a clear contradiction if you ask me). In my opinion they also used 1-5 to kind of build a bridge between those two games (I'm not sure if that was their intention or not, but as a person who studies writing and literature it seems like that kind of device.)
Do you mean in JFA and T&T? I would guess that they couldn't fit it in anywhere without compromising the original intent and dialogue of the Japanese version. It might have made some fans happy, but I think just as many would be pissed if that kind of thing happened. Also, maybe even the Japanese fans would be mad because they didn't stick to the original GBA script.
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Lunaria42 wrote:
I don't mean that everything is retcon; I guess I should have been clearer. I mean most of the stuff about Edgeworth's personality is retcon. It says one thing in 2-4 about him using every ditry trick in the book, but in 1-5 he says he never meant to be such a demon or use dirty tactics (a clear contradiction if you ask me).
I totally agree. I think in 1-5 the writers fell into the old trap that a lot of authors do: trying to absolve their favorite characters of all guilt. Some creators get it in their heads that declaring "It wasn't his fault! He was never a bad guy to begin with!" makes their character more likeable. Edgeworth is a major fan favorite after all, maybe they thought fans would rather see him as a good guy through and through.
Personally I don't like that they tried to let him off the hook like that. Edgeworth's transformation from almost-Karma to fighting-for-the-truth civil servant is a big part of his character. I like the idea that he used underhanded tactics before "seeing the light." Gives him more depth, I say.
Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Croik wrote:
Lunaria42 wrote:
I don't mean that everything is retcon; I guess I should have been clearer. I mean most of the stuff about Edgeworth's personality is retcon. It says one thing in 2-4 about him using every ditry trick in the book, but in 1-5 he says he never meant to be such a demon or use dirty tactics (a clear contradiction if you ask me).
Personally I don't like that they tried to let him off the hook like that. Edgeworth's transformation from almost-Karma to fighting-for-the-truth civil servant is a big part of his character. I like the idea that he used underhanded tactics before "seeing the light." Gives him more depth, I say.
That idea makes his transformation more meaningful and greater. Just being a reluctant "bad tatics user" and then "seeing the light" is very boring in my opinion as well. In writing you want character growth the be believable, and something like that just seems forced upon the character. My favorite incarnation of Edgeworth is actually pre 1-4 (before he started to see the light, but at this point he hadn't yet crossed over). There is something nice about a man who is willing do anything to get what he wants, and I think that is what attracts some people to his character. That's what did for me at least, but I've always been a sucker for villain types.
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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Croik wrote:
Lunaria42 wrote:
I don't mean that everything is retcon; I guess I should have been clearer. I mean most of the stuff about Edgeworth's personality is retcon. It says one thing in 2-4 about him using every ditry trick in the book, but in 1-5 he says he never meant to be such a demon or use dirty tactics (a clear contradiction if you ask me).
I totally agree. I think in 1-5 the writers fell into the old trap that a lot of authors do: trying to absolve their favorite characters of all guilt. Some creators get it in their heads that declaring "It wasn't his fault! He was never a bad guy to begin with!" makes their character more likeable. Edgeworth is a major fan favorite after all, maybe they thought fans would rather see him as a good guy through and through.
Personally I don't like that they tried to let him off the hook like that. Edgeworth's transformation from almost-Karma to fighting-for-the-truth civil servant is a big part of his character. I like the idea that he used underhanded tactics before "seeing the light." Gives him more depth, I say.
I agree. Its like in Star Wars when they changed it to make the other guy pull the blaster on Han first. That totally ruined it because people liked thinking of Han Solo as a bad ass who shot people. Its the same thing with Edgeworth (minus the shooting). I liked thinking of him as someone who hated crime so much that he'd do anything to get them thrown behind bars, and then realizing when he meets right that he's not getting the guilty thrown behind bars, but the innocent. It was major character development that 1-5 totally took away.
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Re: Question about Miles Edgeworth *Spoilers*
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FirexxxSaber wrote:
I agree. Its like in Star Wars when they changed it to make the other guy pull the blaster on Han first. That totally ruined it because people liked thinking of Han Solo as a bad ass who shot people. Its the same thing with Edgeworth (minus the shooting).
That's just the example I was thinking of.
Though another one that really bothered me was Robin in One Piece.
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