It's not that one somebody already translated which is floating around, is it?



And I guess in my laziness after that I left it too long. That and there's a pile of junk on the scanner. And there aren't enough power points. (Seriously who thought things would be okay with one power point per room? This is the 21st century!)

But hey, I'm 70% sure there might be one by that artist with the the doujinshi in the 'Best partner' book, how about that one? Otherwise I'll just scan something random. Hey, didn't you mention you might be interested in translating that story in the fanbook which goes with that ship-worthy picture? Though I bet the actual text doesn't support the pairing...



Only in Japanese where they seem to combine parts of the names
NaruMayo ナルマヨ

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I've allready got Pearl .

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Hi, everyone! I came in very briefly a couple months ago, but then life went and distracted me, forcing me to ignore my favorite pairing for a while (which was torturous, believe me). I've since returned to read all 44 pages--and I must say, Phoenix/Maya discussions such as these always put a smile on my face (as creepy as that seems).

Anyway...I decided to try and enter the craze with a bit of my own work, a fanfic called One to Ten. I tried very hard to get their interaction and character correctly, so I hope you enjoy it.

Now, I only wish I were as insightful as some of you! The bridge/fire discussion really blew me away, and I'm still trying to sort it all out. You guys are good.

Actually, yeah, but I'd do it with a proper translation and localization. But still, since it's NSFW stuff, I'm debating whether I should do it or not.

Holy crap, I myself even forgot I had those. -_- I'm gonna start working on them soon, but YES, I AM interested in translating the story you mention. =)

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I like.
Any possibility of providing the quote? I don't think the game script of that case is online...

Then you must want her to stop slapping you.
Resistance is futile!

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She hasn't done it to me for that. Remember she does know that:

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I never saw anything about a funny-looking face, this was the closest things I could find to it.

Maya: You're not very photogenic are you Nick?
Phoenix: ...!
Pearl: Welll that's the end of that conversation!

Maya: When did you first get that porcupine cut?
Phoenix: Um.. it's been like this ever since I was a little kid.
Maya: What?! You mean that's the way is naturally!? I thought you had some sort of special "Phoenix Cut" deal with the barber. I mean... You usually only see hair like that in a video game.
Phoenix: (Is my hair really that weird-looking?)

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So, I might have typed my reply (finally) to exjumbo by tomorrow.. I wish I could have done your theory better justice but oh well.. the parallels to 3-4 and 3-5 trial run deep.
Terry:Dahlia ('Teen Angel') 5 years later trial ~ Phoenix:Maya 5 years later trial

In terms of more paralleling Phoenix with Terry in 3-4, THIS one seems significant:

In the '5 years later trial' in 3-4 Terry utterly and irrationally believed in his 'girlfriend' (Dahlia) to the last, but his belief was over the fact that, instead of betraying him at the bridge, she had been murdered and died. His breakdown is over the fact she is actually alive, (and hence, the relationship is dead as her being alive is proof of the betrayal.)

By contrast, Phoenix's utter belief diverges to an opposite end-point as his breakdown is over the fact Maya has 'died'. Unlike Terry, the revelation she is really alive is a positive, proof their relationship can continue. (These two never abandoned each other at the bridge, and their relationship is not based on a lie so the parallel revelation the subject of his belief (Maya) is alive is a positive.)

And you are exceptional for finding the meaning of "I ate it." I already decided in my complex theory of 3-1 3-5 parallels that the 'irrational love based belief' was transferred from Iris to Maya, but here's 'proof' of symbolic relationship severing to allow the 'transferral', and evidence of the further parallel of Terry's irrational love based belief in 3-4.

You haven't noticed some kind of great Phoenix/Maya symbolic theory elsewhere in the games, have you? :)

I've got to say all this complex symbolics in 3-1, 3-4, 3-5 is a work of genius in general by the writers.

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I believe it's somewhere in the middle of the case, on the second investigation phase. I distinctly remember it, because after Maya makes fun of him, he starts wondering whether or not he should even carry the picture around.

This is starting to bother me now...I'll see if I can get any pictures.

I'm a great supporter of Phoenix/Maya, but I support the pairing with any particular exclusion. Since I don't have to consider a pairing "canon" in order to enjoy it, I don't let myself get caught up in what person a character is most likely to be in a relationship from a game standpoint - I just like pairings that seem like the characters could actually enjoy being in a relationship together. Phoenix/Maya certainly fits that criteria in my eyes (but it doesn't stop me from liking, say, Miles/Maya).

I am, however, ashamed to admit that I haven't written much for these two beyond a fluffy little one-shot ^^

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Ah, I found it. I was partially wrong to say that she outright called his face funny-looking, but she does stand by the "photogenic" comment. The first two lines are identical to the one described by DarkWobbuffet, but has its own additional lines.

Here's the script (no pictures, sorry):



It's funny, because you can see Maya's expression change as Phoenix starts to feel sorry for himself.

Nicely done!! You were definitely successful at capturing their personalities and interaction!

I must go and watch that scene the next time my friend lends me T&T.


Yes! This is fantastic! I think it decisively shows that Phoenix’s fall from the bridge was not symbolic of an ending of his relationship with Maya.

If the broken bottle signified the end of Phoenix/Dahlia, then a Phoenix/Iris supporter might argue that the broken bridge signifies the end of Phoenix/Maya.

However, as you’ve just said, the oppositeness in the breakdowns between Terry and Phoenix, and the revelation, proves that Phoenix/Maya can continue. (Terry and 3-1 Phoenix being connected by their irrational acts)
(Whee, triple parallel!)

Good luck with the debate!

I haven’t noticed other symbolic theories…but then again, I actually didn’t notice much of the symbolism about the bridge until you prompted me to add something deep and meaningful XD. I saw it just as a literal version of the burning bridge cliché at first.

Yeah, I can think of no other game where such discussions can over the script. The writers did an outstanding job.

IT GOES FURTHER!
Dahlia betrayed Terry by jumping off halfway at the bridge.
In 3-5, Dahlia tries to claim Maya jumped off the bridge after killing her mother, betraying Phoenix's belief and abandoning their relationship like she did to Terry.

Since this is a lie, Maya being alive proves she never betrayed their relationship. (Unlike Terry, for who Dahlia being alive is proof she did, because the betrayal was real).

The case is devoted to proving one relationship is based on the TRUTH (and it's not Phoenix/Iris.) We know how big they are on 'the truth' in this series.

I think we've proven beyond reasonable doubt Maya was conclusively transferred the 'irrational and explicitly stated romantic LOVE based belief and relationship' role held by 'Dahlia concept' in 3-4, 'Iris' in 3-1. (TWO precedents.) Iris' present role is NOT as 'girlfriend' but merely for Phoenix's character growth and vindication. Maya gets to be the one true present relationship, framed in its two precedent roles in an explicitly ROMANTIC context.

(One True Pairing hehehehe) Nobody's going to convince me Phoenix/Maya wasn't canon implied. Nobody. At the very least, the case seems to be devoted to the relationship's vindication (over Phoenix/Iris). Phoenix is implied to have finally found the one relationship he can genuinely and truly believe in - where he won't be betrayed. (With Maya, obviously.)

Maybe it's one which is repeated in full the first time, but when you present it after the first time, you get only the abbreviated version like DarkWobbuffet's?

It's actually directly after the first trial day, when you

Welcome to the club WeirdMisty!

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Ugh, well I finally replied to exjumbo.. man, I'm never writing on paper again, it made it too long.. or replying to all his points again anyway. (I think I made this clear. He can prove Phoenix/Iris to me himself.)

Since I don't think many people will read it, I was thinking we should clean up the 3-5 symbolic theory to something slightly less Iris-bashing in tone and maybe get it circulating elsewhere as an actually readable essay? :) Elsewhere = well, I'm not sure, but there's here. Anywhere.. else? (The previous essays have implied Phoenix/Maya is nothing but a Pearlish delusion and they imply we think they're in a Pearlish romance during the games). Hey, 3-5's symbolics converted me to the ship...
Though above site seemed to think this quote was significant:
3-3 Maya saying to Phoenix "I never knew you were so...cultured"

!!!

YOU ARE AMAZING.

I read it all, you've shot down every single one of exjumbo's theories and pointed out stronger connections between Phoenix/Maya (including the bridge metaphor stuff) rather than the flimsy Phoenix/Iris argument I AM SO IMPRESSED HAVE A COUPLE THOUSAND COOKIES!!!

Seriously though, three pages with your response is pretty...wow.

YOU ARE AWESOME YOU ARE AWESOME YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

Well, most of us helped a little too, and Mr. Concerto thought up the majority of the bridge parallel thing. :D

A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE, I'D LIKE TO SEE EXJUMBO REPLY TO THAT!

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This is promising something!
I still have to read your new reply, but it's 8 in the morning here now and I need to go to school...
Note to self: First thing you do this afternoon is read Icer's post

0_0 Wow…22 posts long; that was ABSOLUTELY EPIC! I could practically hear the ‘cornered’ music playing (orchestrated version, of course) as I read it! I can’t see how exjumboe would even counter that. Congrats! ( Pearl thanks you too)

In regards to circulation, that sounds like a good idea. It would certainly be nice to prove that Phoenix/Maya is more than a Pearlish fantasy.

I have nothing against Iris; I feel sorry for her and I realize that I have similar faults to hers, as do a lot of people, and would probably act the same as she did if I were in her place. Albeit I wouldn’t abandon my girlfriend if she were on trial, but I would certainly be the one getting locked in the sealed cavern, or chicken out at 3-4’s Dusky Bridge, or not tell Phoenix about the potential murder.
Because many people spend all their years standing around waiting for life to happen to them. (I’ve been a fan of Waiting for Godot even before knowing about Prosecutor Godot )
___

@WeirdMisty: I totally ignored you earlier, that was rather rude of me, my apologies. Welcome! I hope you enjoy yourself here.


Don’t feel ashamed, there aren’t any such prerequisites here; being a supporter of Phoenix/Maya is all. (I do hope to see your one-shot though)

I will post it if I can ever find it xD It was a response to a kink meme request, and I can't remember when I posted it, so I'm having trouble figuring out where I left it xD

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LOL. Most of my stuff responds to that very same condition; they're mostly responses to Kink Meme requests. With a little effort, you can quickly and easily track it down... XD

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Icer, I'm on the last page right now, and I have to point it out, your opponent is really dropping the ball as of late, glad to see you're keeping on him.


Also, PURE EPICNESS!!!! (I used "Appearance of Golbez's Four Archfiends" from the Final Fantasy: Dissidia OST, after the Cornered Remix, it didn't stand a chance. . .)

Finally. . *Hands you a barrel of Eggnog* Regards from Santa Godot, for your handling of this case so far

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Hey guys! Just posted my new fic hope you guys take a gander... here's a link on ff.net http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4812399/1/B ... n_a_Moment

I've also posted it on the forum, hope you guys like it!

Maya and Phoenix play out the consequences after the Godot trial, Maya leans on Phoenix for comfort but is she taking too much advantage of his kindness? Is she just avoiding going back to Kurain?

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I still haven't been able to read all of your EPIC debate. D: YOU PEOPLE ARE TOO SMART AND ELOQUENT

I will find the time next week when I'm off school. :3

My contribution:

Um... MAYA IS CUTER! 8D *shot*

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Oh, thanks so much everyone I have to thank Equilibrate Concerto bigtime on this one.
(Even Santa Godot!)
Well my future replies are going to be short (ie. 'You still haven't proven canon implied future Phoenix/Iris concept'.) Though I'm kind of fearing he'll just never reply, not giving me the satisfaction he even read it. I'm pretty surprised anyone else read it, actually...


Yeah, I didn't expand on your thing of the bridge being literally metaphoric of the relationship itself as much as I could have though, more that it was a 'path of relationship trial', so there could be more there. Also, do you think an 'essay' should try to be a bit more impartial or just don't bother disguising it as not being a Phoenix/Maya intention?

Also, I've really got to thank you for seeing the (in hindsight, most obvious place to look) symbolic connections they were making between 3-4 and 3-5 and of course the whole metaphorics of the bridge thing. It makes me happy to have the whole 3-5 Phoenix-Maya concept I vaguely suspected based on the less obvious evidence I did manage to pick up on is in fact more conclusively detailed by the writers than I ever imagined. Especially that vindication that it's the true relationship specifically (not just person) he can indeed believe in. That's going further than I ever thought the canon did. She doesn't just take the love interest role, she takes the 'relationship' as well which was a lie in 3-1 but proven true in this case. It's practically blatantly canon that Phoenix gets his career and defendant judgment vindication in Iris but finally found the relationship commitment which could only be a fantasy in 3-1 in reality in Maya. It's... beautiful.

(Unfortunately, this only makes me more annoyed that they think we'll be placated merely by the fact she 'keeps sending DVDs' in game 4, but oh well.)

I think the keys, apart from the bridge, were seeing Valerie's role, and that while Dahlia orchestrated the 'betrayal' in all 3 cases, her 'role' was not the same in 3-4 as 3-1, and the direct parallel of Maya's betrayal' to Dahlia's in 3-4. And the fact that eating the bottle symbolically severed the relationship back in 3-1 like it did terry in 3-4. That was a major revelation.

I didn't ever pay much attention to 3-4 (dumb) as I was impatient to get to 3-5, but Phoenix's irrational and unprofessional behaviour and belief in 3-5 I could immediately see as a direct parallel to his love-based insanity in 3-1, with Maya now transferred the role of target, this no longer Iris' role in present. I also immediately formed this hopelessly complex parallel symbolism between Phoenix:Iris:Dahlia and Mia:Diego:Godot, (various factors rendered Mia-Diego over, in short, Iris-Phoenix was implied as over too) but I never looked at anyone but Mia and Diego in 3-4, really. So, to use another bad metaphor, I guess I had the concept of the 'forest' of the Phoenix-Maya thing in 3-5 symbolics, but only had seen the detail of a few obscure 'trees', and had to vaguely assume the other parts of 'trees' were consistent with supporting the concept. I was sure they did, but seems the other 'trees' support the concept as a whole way more obviously and decisively than I assumed. So it's nice to see my judgment wasn't in error. Don't often get that type of vindication :)

By the way, I shipped Phoenix/Edgeworth after 1-4, though I started shipping the Phoenix/Maya friendship as a friendship, somewhere along the line, if that makes sense... By game 3, it was getting to the point where really, I couldn't bear them to be apart, possibly even if that meant no Phoenix/Edgeworth and the main reason it 'wasn't ever going to be romantic' was.. because I chose not to see it that way. That's not a reason... Apart from the above concept, the two moments which directly converted me to the Phoenix/Maya ship were the "She's your girlfriend, isn't she?" where I was expecting some vague kind of denial to DAHLIA of all people, and of course the spectacular breakdown itself. There was no doubt who he loved more than anything.

Last edited by icer on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Maya cute thing does add to it good job LOL!

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I just played that part in AJ. And my impression was: He said a "kid" keeps sending them to him. Now as you know Maya would be an adult by then, so when i saw it my first thought was someone who is about the same age as Trucy, so could still be called a kid.
You know who i mean
(Just wanted to throw that idea out there)

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^I'm afraid there was some interview with the writers (Takumi, I think) where he said it was, indeed, Maya.

and I double post because I scanned the fanbook and nobody would notice otherwise right?

Yeah, I finally scanned that story from the fanbook, if DZ still wants to translate it. I'm pretty sure it has zero shippy content, but we'll never know otherwise, right? Sorry they're a bit wonky, I'm paranoid about not bending that thing too much. (I'd do practically anything for a proper huge print/poster of that finger-pointing cover pic of the cast.)
PAGE 1. Dialogue of Diego and Mia, in a tea/COFFEE shop
PAGE 2. Was the pic of Diego and Mia, had this (maybe quote of Pearl) underneath, which may be an aside.
PAGE 3. Was the pic of Phoenix and Maya in the ramen stand ('burgers')
PAGE 4. The dialogue between Phoenix and Maya which I assume is related to the pic.

Also, see this. Needs cleaning, but you get the idea. I just love this pic.

[tell me if they don't work, I think I managed to find the one exception to the 'no img files over x size and no zip files' rule.]



I said I'd write more on this:

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Last edited by icer on Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I'm getting an error page on the last link there:

"You're seeing this page because account contains no index file. (EG: index.htm)"

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That makes so much sense, unfortunately. As much as I would like Maya (and Edgeworth, but to a lesser extent as we are getting GK) to return somehow in GS5, I admit that it probably will not happen since hers and Edgeworth's story did effectively finish in game 3. However, Phoenix's lack of resolution at the end of game 4 necessitates his return in GS5.
He shouldn't have been in GS4 at all, especially since so much of him is defined by his friends. Now that hobo-phoenix exists, and because of these ignored relationships, I believe that we need these characters to give him a proper resolution. If this happens, then Phoenix could just keep on being a hobo for all I cared if the writers wished it and I would be satisfied. Sadly, the writers don't appear to feel the same way.


Unfortunately, if GS4 is any indication, I'm not too sure on the 'importance to Phoenix' part. It's 'supposed' to be Apollo's story right now (but it's not! they threw that out the window by adding humiliating Phoenix)...so if they don't plan on giving Phoenix a huge role then...but on the other hand if she has a different role...oh I'm not sure. I think I'll stay out of this one, but I'll throw this quote out there, not certain if it is significant, but it's poetic nonetheless:




Technically, she had one scene in the credits; it didn't/doesn't mean anything though...


I feel as if I had just heard a news reporter comment about Hawaii not being a state! (I'm from Hawaii and yes, I did just read about a news reporter making such a comment) And I had so much respect for the writers too...


So, let's hope for the success of GK then?
Perhaps someone on the writing team will realize that while Phoenix is in GS5 (probably) and Edgeworth has GK, the third member of the trio (Maya) is being left out! (I'm not sure if I meant that as a joke or not)


Well, I think that there might be more of an audience if it was written without the Phoenix/Maya intent...but on the other hand, simply by discussing the metaphors I think we'd be implying Phoenix/Maya anyway...Hmm...not sure. Do you mean impartial in regards to people (Maya/Phoenix/Iris), or in regards to strength (Romance/Friendship)?

But it is there. Proof.

Stupid web host...
Anyway, now the img is on the index.htm

Edit Edit Edit:

Oh good, you see my point. I would have liked for it to be not true... but the more I hope it isn't, the more I see it, so this is why, while i love Hobo!Phoenix to death, even more than when he had his lawyer-only incarnation, I have some problems with that game, which won't go away if I 'ignore' them.

Yes, that's exactly what I think.
If game 5 goes down the same path set by game 4 with regards to Phoenix, then I don't see the Maya relationship 'returning' at all. It would be okay if he barely appears (we can just pretend it happens, off-screen, if nothing contradicts it. I'm fine with that. The best case scenario is if he just doesn't show up, and is told to have 'left to be a lawyer again' or 'left to live with a friend'. If only!)

The worst thing is if Phoenix continues to bleed to death onscreen in a similar role (especially negative) to game 4 with blatant contradictions to the continued existence of the relationships. And, if he's still a central character, I can see them pulling something like that, unless there's a policy change from game 4. Like a worst case scenario of, say, a canon marriage to Thalassa for the 'sake of the kids' *vomit*, now he's not the main char, that kind of cliche is more likely for a 'happy' ending. And unlike if we were merely crazy shippers, I think we can see that as unfair, because the insanely close 'friendship' was so blatantly canon, and implied as something which would NOT disappear in face of repeated catastrophe. And it just being disregarded as 'irrelevant' is kind of worse than if they'd canonly made up some excuse about how she's suddenly abandoned him.

By the way, I think that there is a chance GS5 will not get to go down the exact same path as GS4, re. Phoenix and [lack of] relationships, simply because of the 'delays' and of course, GK. It's only a small window of opportunity though, and it's likely to be controlled by the marketing department and what they think will sell, I guess. BTW, I think even if GK took over as the main series, Phoenix and Maya risk being left out in the cold eternally, due to the 'too difficult to handle' GS4 Phoenix issue. I doubt the GK writers want to step on the GS4+ writers' toes. But hey, maybe they wouldn't mind Maya alone in the (non-existent) GK2, she could just talk about Phoenix.

Oh man, that quote gets me every time, along with "I'm sure we'll meet again someday... Phoenix" *vanish*

YES! HAWAII IS A STATE! </random> The writers seem to have varied over the series but the producer was the same. 1-5 and game 4 got a new producer. I suppose this is the key, um, difference. She's big on her work. They were careful to stay true to the original in 1-5, which was why it was a good case, but maybe she wanted to make her 'own' creative vision (and probably resented them making her return Phoenix to her new vision, hence he and the previous games are not exactly handled.. respectfully.. )

Maya is never going to get her own game, I think Edgeworth only gets one because where else can they retreat to on the back of the series and skirt Phoenix/Apollo entirely? And Edgeworth has a lot of fans. Maya is so closely associated with Phoenix (they are each others' other half in characterisation and writing, too) that it's unlikely she'll appear without him, though there's a vague chance they might return her in a GK2 or something. Some of the GK staff at least remember she exists, surely. By the way, it's more likely to happen if fans demand it, though who to demand to is another question... as it is, we'll get more of Lotta Hart, maybe Larry, even Sal Manella in GK, but our favourite pair are probably going to remain the losers, in the initial one at least.

Dammit, I wish I could make a ROM hack of game 4. Just replace Apollo with Maya in 4-1 - she went to law school specifically to try to help Phoenix clear his name, and took the bar exam the other day so she could get him out of trouble. (Maybe Mia helped.) This explains why Phoenix does half of it for her. She's been doing 'work experience' with Kristoph. She and Phoenix have to 'pretend' they're not friends and fell out over the disbarring in front of him to avoid suspicion.. Case 2+ can be handled by the fact that Maya 'met' Apollo at Gavin and Co. and tipped Phoenix off re. similarity to Trucy. Yay. game is fixed.

Um... Whether we argue blatantly that this symbolics is continually indicating a canon Phoenix-Maya intense relationship taking over the role of 'irrational love based belief' but ending up true, the relationship he finally can believe in and not be betrayed and the truth-based replacement of what lacked between his fantasy and reality re. Iris. Or if we only imply this more indirectly and let the symbolism do the talking ie appear superficially to be more impartial. Pheonix/Maya undertones will always be evident, but maybe not straight away.

I don't think it's possible to be 'impartial' re. worth of future Phoenix/Iris as the entire symbolism basically depicts it as irrelevant, though we mostly should let the symbolics do the talking here rather than literal Iris-judgment. I already think that the 'essay' shouldn't blatantly try to claim that the symbolics point to romance with Maya specifically over just the 'relationship' (the relationship is canon, the romance is just implied.)

I'm not sure I've adequately managed to explain anything here?

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(Err…sorry I don't respond very well in this post. By the way, I’ve read your debate in the ‘old characters’ thread. *bows down in respect*)


I entirely concur. If putting Phoenix back into GS5 is going to break him further, I'd rather not see him at all.


HOLD IT!…hey, at what point did I become a ‘crazy shipper’!?
Actually, don’t answer that.

If a worst case scenario occurs, then I think I’ll be among the ‘denial’ group…or a variation on that: learn how to use a case-maker and make my own GS6! (I’m definitely not backing that statement up)


Yeah, in the end it’s all about the money. I don’t blame them at all; it was fair judgment at the time, but I personally would have bought GS4 even if Phoenix wasn’t in it.


Well, there’s always fanfiction, etc. I guess. We’ve relied on that up till now, after all. I can’t see/wouldn’t want Maya in a game without Phoenix…it just wouldn’t work, there would be something missing.


Oh, I see, then it’s likely that we can’t expect anything decent out of GS5 as far as Phoenix’s resolution is concerned.

If this is the case, then it’s not likely that she’d listen to fans and, like you said, we see how Capcom’s demands were handled. And I have a bad feeling about Thalassa, knock-on-wood.

Well, we don’t even have any information on GS5 yet, so I’ll try to stay optimistic.


I know she won’t; I meant an appearance or statement or something that lets us know what she was doing during the seven years. But given what you said about the GS4/5 team…perhaps ignorance is bliss.


Hmm…they could take Phoenix and co. out of GS5 entirely and stick them into GK2 (if there is one) (with the optional possibility of making him a lawyer again).
…on second thought, I don’t think I would want that. Edgeworth is my favorite character, actually, and Phoenix is just way too much of an attention stealer to have to play second fiddle to him.


Oh, ok, that helps. I agree, if we were to try to be completely impartial towards Iris the whole thing would seem rather ‘choked’. Though, yeah, we should stay away from Iris-bashing and such; that would be a turnoff.


Agreed. Since we already support the pairing the progression from Phoenix/Maya as a relationship to a romance would seem natural to us, but to others it would be ‘jumping to conclusions’.

In the end, I think, what we are proving is, as you said earlier, 3-5 as the ultimate test of Phoenix and Maya’s relationship. Does that sound right?
In the meantime, I guess I'll start on it.


Don’t worry, you did!

The 'progression to romance' is a theory we have supported by lots of other subtext and hints in the rest of the games, but we're not going to detail them here. I think it's pretty much canon that a 'reading' of the game of it being non-romantic is possible and deliberate, but also that an implied canon of future romance is also possible, and it's up to the player. What is not debatable is the relationship. In 3-5, that relationship gets framed in an extremely romantic light (since Maya's role she explicitly fills here is one held by 'female that Phoenix/Terry was madly in LOVE with' and stuff like 'Shes' your girlfriend, isn't' she?' and the vindication of all Pearl's 'fantasies',) but we probably shouldn't push it too far.

(By the way, I think it goes pretty far to implying that while he was still suffering the Iris trauma, he was probably scared to fall in love, subconsciously or consciously, as it might lead to another revelation it's only a fantasy/betrayal and another hurt. But this 'fear' is conclusively proven as incorrect with the Maya relationship here - one where he doesn't get betrayed which he can believe in, so he's basically freed to fall in love with her, since the fear associated with romance is already proven incorrect.)

Apart from the relationship surviving the ultimate test (like Phoenix/Iris didn't) it's deliberately shown to be a true relationship Phoenix has gained which he CAN believe in to the last, the part which turned out to be a lie in the Iris saga and 3-1 which he 'lost' is found to be true here. Phoenix finds out that his belief in Iris as a person (eg. not a murderer) is vindicated, but there's no escaping the fact the relationship was a lie and he was delusional over the relationship itself, even if not about Iris. He could believe in Iris as not a murderer in reality, but he could not believe in their relationship in reality and that part was the delusion.

His faith in judging character is restored by the truth of Iris in 3-5, (that's important to his career, since he'd want his professional judgment of defendants as not guilty to be vindicated!) but his faith in relationships wouldn't have been since the truth is still that the relationship was not one he could believe in and here he was in error.

But in 3-5, Phoenix is clearly demonstrated to not only be able to believe in Maya as a person, but this is a relationship he can believe in to the last. Unlike the 'girlfriend concept' in 3-4 and 3-1, Maya did not really betray him by 'jumping off the bridge' and betraying the relationship and his belief in it. He's found in reality with Maya what he never really had with Iris - a relationship he can believe in to the last, even when ultimate havoc is battering it from the outside world. So he gets vindication here too. Cue happy forever ending with female with who he has a genuine version of the relationship he really can believe in and his belief will be reciprocated, not abandoned.

As for the 'essay' - I was thinking we could use that thing I wrote as a starting point (since it includes a lot of the material we discussed later in this thread) but I never really detailed the concept of the bridge as being literally symbolic of their relationship itself - more on that would be useful, also it needs to be made more impartial and less anti Phoenix/Iris even though the concept really does prove Iris irrelevant as 'future girlfriend' (far more than I originally suspected, really). Also anything you think I explained badly/wrong in that would be good. Critique, plz. Time and interest permitting of course. I should probably edit it first, really.

As for the rest of your post:

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whoah. I'm confused.

Did capcom said something about GS5? I can't find anything on the capcom-site.

there will be a GS5, won't it? >.<

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BRACE YOURSELVES.



[Hmm,is this too 'controversial' for my long awaited new sig?]

@Sahnie. It was mentioned at Capcom Gamers Day 2007 that 'a GS5 is in production/will be produced' by the Capcom president [?] but this is the only mention. It might have been an erroneous ref to GK, I have no idea if this has ever been confirmed or denied. However, it seems likely to be produced etc.

AWESOME!!!
o________o

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Best. Banner. Ever.

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I came upon seeing the second image.

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Yeah, the Super Objection. Even with Mia it made me choke up, add some Phoenix/Maya and...

Damn, I'll have to somehow make this 'upgrade' now, won't I?

BTW did you see this post? If you don't want to translate them it's fine, you just seemed to be lamenting the lack of new scans to translate before.

Okay, everyone, how's the Maya? Do you think she looks older? In my imaginary GS4.5 Upgrade Edition, Maya went to law school, desperate to find a way to clear Phoenix's name. She took the bar exam the other day so she could get him off the murder charge (did Mia help?). She's been doing 'work experience' at Gavin and Co. Here she meets Apollo and passes him on to Phoenix (and the cases after 4-1)

I didn't make it with the intention of being a sig, but it is the right size. I don't want to remove the logo, since it would probably look bad without it, but it might look like a covert plot to overthrow Apollo or something and annoy people So what do you think I should do? Not have a sig, have it as is, or modify it to ..something without the 'game logo'?