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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Really? You will? Thanks so much, icer. I appreciate it. I'd like to create a story of my own.

From now on, I will be more regular in posting in this awesome thread.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Single's Awareness Day is evil like that Icer, but awesome pics!
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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*Is NOT going to let this fall to the second page!*

...I apologize for my absence...but anyway, I spent the free time I had trying to learn how to use Pywright.

(I chose this casemaker over the others because I'm on a mac, if anyone who reads this wants to know)

Why? Because I feel the complete lack of explanation for the characters' reaction in GS4 to Phoenix's disbarring was unacceptable. So I'm (almost done) making a 'supplement' of sorts.
I also have hoped to let it lead in effectively into icer's "alternate 4-1" scenario, but at the same time not step on anyone's toes in the process.
(I don't know about using it to make actual cases, at least for now. Hobo Phoenix's animations are sort of broken. I fixed the 'normal' one by editing the png file, but I can't figure out the others)
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^ I applaud your proactiveness!

Here we go, some nice new fanart. I haven't seen these around before, so hopefully you haven't either:
Spoiler: pics
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^Not shippy persay, but I'd have to be pretty damn close to someone to be slobbering over the same ramen.

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Yay, new artwork! You found some wonderful arts here Icer. Is it possible you could link us to the artists behind them?
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Awww, I love the first one. *u* Thanks for showing us~
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Toby Danger wrote:
Yay, new artwork! You found some wonderful arts here Icer. Is it possible you could link us to the artists behind them?

Erm, I got them all by trawling through this site: http://www.pixiv.net/ [yay! I figured out how to sign up!] It only seems to consist of fairly recent artwork though. No doubt there would be more, if I could find the right keywords.
By the way, there's some pic which is somebody's imaginary idea of GS5, starring Phoenix and Maya's kid, so far as I could tell from those bad auto translators.
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icer wrote:
Toby Danger wrote:
Yay, new artwork! You found some wonderful arts here Icer. Is it possible you could link us to the artists behind them?

Erm, I got them all by trawling through this site: http://www.pixiv.net/ [yay! I figured out how to sign up!] It only seems to consist of fairly recent artwork though. No doubt there would be more, if I could find the right keywords.
By the way, there's some pic which is somebody's imaginary idea of GS5, starring Phoenix and Maya's kid, so far as I could tell from those bad auto translators.

Yay, another Pixiv victim. XD
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title

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Awwww, the ramen one is so cute. :3

Yes, I'm alive! Sorry I have nothing else to contribute though...I posted for the sole purpose of commenting on the ramen picture.

...Or maybe I do. I don't know if any of you have seen this:

http://kamiyayoriko.deviantart.com/art/Dance-and-kiss-101100482
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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:edgy: superb pics! I especially love the first one...and the second one...and the third...oh heck, I love them all!

...But I can't seem to get the deviantart one to load at the moment, for some reason. =( It must be my internet.
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icer wrote:
By the way, there's some pic which is somebody's imaginary idea of GS5, starring Phoenix and Maya's kid, so far as I could tell from those bad auto translators.


Now this I have to see!
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Toby Danger wrote:
Now this I have to see!


Well, I'm not sure where they got the exact idea from [I wouldn't have predicted that hair, but who knows?] I mentioned it for the 'thought that counts' aspect. [Either that or it's Phoenix and Mia's kid - but Mia didn't exactly wear purple, or pearls.... Phoenix as parent is confirmed, rest I found the perfect match for the chars on a pic of Maya and Mia, so it's one of them for sure.]

Oh and I found another pic. I'm not sure why they're in an igloo, but I love this pic. It's so... in-character!
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The first one is so cute! Phoenix's face is blue and purple, LOL. And, Maya... Awww.
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Design wise, that art of the Son of Nick is actually pretty good. I could see this guy appearing in one of the games.
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Maya wrote:
Hey guys, to those of your involved in the scanlations, great job, my favourite has to be Flower Steal. :maya:

Just to put it out there... I've written my first Maya/Phoenix fic but not my first fic mind you. It was on kink meme, asking for bath time P/M fluff.


Hey Maya, I've read your 'Bath Time' story. Here's the review:

Spoiler: Review
Um... HOLD IT! :youngmia:

Won't Phoenix get sick, too, if Maya kisses him? :cough: She really should have thought of that before trying that...

Regardless of this small quibble, I like this brief one-shot much better than your other story. It feels much more natural. You did a really good job getting Phoenix and Maya's attitudes right here, and the narration parts sound good, too.

I only have one more question... what the hell is a 'man-flu'?? :udgy:

You know, I thought it was annoying they renamed 'Cold Killer Z' to 'Cold Killer X'. The former sounds much more badass, don't you think?


Keep up the good work!


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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Quizer wrote:
Maya wrote:
Hey guys, to those of your involved in the scanlations, great job, my favourite has to be Flower Steal. :maya:

Just to put it out there... I've written my first Maya/Phoenix fic but not my first fic mind you. It was on kink meme, asking for bath time P/M fluff.


Hey Maya, I've read your 'Bath Time' story. Here's the review:

Spoiler: Review
Um... HOLD IT! :youngmia:

Won't Phoenix get sick, too, if Maya kisses him? :cough: She really should have thought of that before trying that...

Regardless of this small quibble, I like this brief one-shot much better than your other story. It feels much more natural. You did a really good job getting Phoenix and Maya's attitudes right here, and the narration parts sound good, too.

I only have one more question... what the hell is a 'man-flu'?? :udgy:

You know, I thought it was annoying they renamed 'Cold Killer Z' to 'Cold Killer X'. The former sounds much more badass, don't you think?


Keep up the good work!


Quizer


Cold Killer Z would be the most epic cold medicine ever, although wouldn't there be occasional claims that the medication takes weeks to get though the first stage of curing.
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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Quizer wrote:
Quizer[/color]


Hey, it's you! I have to say that your "Ultra Course" fic is one of, if not the bestP/M fic I've ever read! =)
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Yes! You found the thread!! Did you read all 46 pages??
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Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Hey, it's you! I have to say that your "Ultra Course" fic is one of, if not the bestP/M fic I've ever read! =)
Thanks! :pearl-blush: I didn't know I already had such notoriety...


Xanatos wrote:
Cold Killer Z would be the most epic cold medicine ever, although wouldn't there be occasional claims that the medication takes weeks to get though the first stage of curing.
Because Phoenix took them for so long?


Amy wrote:
Yes! You found the thread!! Did you read all 46 pages??
Actually no, I didn't I only read the last three pages or so. Feel free to point out the highlights to me.


Quizer

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Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Quizer wrote:
Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Hey, it's you! I have to say that your "Ultra Course" fic is one of, if not the bestP/M fic I've ever read! =)
Thanks! :pearl-blush: I didn't know I already had such notoriety...


I second that!! Btw, are you still working on "Inconclusive Evidence" ? That seemed like a good story too!
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Hugtenburg wrote:
I second that!! Btw, are you still working on "Inconclusive Evidence" ? That seemed like a good story too!
Oh yes, I am. I've not worked on it for a long time, but I'm trying to get back into it now. There's too much already written of it and I really like it - it would be a waste to leave it unfinished. Rest assured I will complete it someday! (FFnet's author alerts can let you know exactly when, though I'll post a notice here on CR as well (but the rules in the 'Present Evidence' part of the forum forbid M-rated material, so I won't be able to post it here. :sadshoe: ).)


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Quizer wrote:
Oh yes, I am. I've not worked on it for a long time, but I'm trying to get back into it now. There's too much already written of it and I really like it - it would be a waste to leave it unfinished. Rest assured I will complete it someday! (FFnet's author alerts can let you know exactly when, though I'll post a notice here on CR as well (but the rules in the 'Present Evidence' part of the forum forbid M-rated material, so I won't be able to post it here. :sadshoe: ).)

Quizer


Ok! That's the spirit! I'll keep looking back on FF.net then, but if you'd edit your sig here I'd also notice :will:
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Ok, I’ve finished a presentable version of my ‘supplement’. (I can’t really call it a ‘case’, since it’s more like an extended ‘cutscene’. Hence ‘supplement’.) I expect to go through multiple revisions, and I would appreciate any comments/suggestions/criticism.

I’ve called it “The Unabridged Turnabout”. The title is an obvious pun on “Bridge to the Turnabout”, yet it describes the vindication for the supplement and any differences created between it and the official games.

Phoenix Wright, The Unabridged Turnabout

DISCLAIMER 1: I don’t own Phoenix Wright or any associated entities. All included characters, art, sfx, and music, with the exception of “Sisters-Symphonic-Electric” are property of Capcom. Said exception is my arrangement/remix of “Turnabout Sisters” created with Finale Notepad 2008. (I hope you enjoy it too, by the way). “Turnabout Sisters” is also property of Capcom. PyWright was developed by Saluk of Court Records forums.

DISCLAIMER 2: I in NO way, shape, or form consider or declare “The Unabridged Turnabout” as official canon. The claims that I have made in “The Unabridged Turnabout” regarding the status of the validity of the Apollo Justice (GS4, etc.) storyline in NO way are meant to take precedence over the official status of said validity whatsoever. Said claims as expressed in “The Unabridged Turnabout” are the avatar of my personal ideas regarding the storyline (head-cannon, to use the lingo), and I do not consider them of any greater merit than those created by any other person. If others choose to accept “The Unabridged Turnabout” into their head-cannon, it is entirely on their own discretion.
(Whew, long disclaimer, but I had to cover the legal stuff AND possible complaints from fans)

You will have to download PyWright first. Go here: http://gyakutenwiki.net/index.php?title=PyWright

The download is at the bottom. If you are on a mac, you will also need to download the related programs (can be a bit of work!).

The actual link to “The Unabridged Turnabout”:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WTD7F8VS

The zip file is called "Unabridged Turnabout." Unzip that, and you should get a folder called "Unabridged Turnabout" which itself should contain a folder called "Supplement" and one called "art". Drag "Unabridged Turnabout" (the one from the zip file) into the "games" folder in the PyWright folder. (Unzipping the folder might have also gotten you a folder called "Mac OSX" or something. Don't drag that into the games folder.

Next, click on the icon within the PyWright folder named “PyWright”. If the program starts “updating” to a new version, wait till it finishes then close Pywright and re-open it (to allow the files to update). Then choose the options “Unabridged Turnabout” > “Supplement: New Game” > “Intro”.

It’s actually quite a bit longer than I had expected it to be when I started: probably more than 15 minutes long, depending on how many pieces of evidence you present in the one place that you can interact. Anyway, I hope the download works.

Explanation for “Unabridged Turnabout”, with footnotes:

As we all know, aside from minuscule ‘seeming’[1] references to past characters, no original PW character save for Phoenix, Hotti/Hickfield, and Gumshoe, appears in Apollo Justice.[2] As GS4 was meant to be Apollo’s story (Capcom’s orders included), it made sense logistically to leave out the old characters in this way.

Storyline-wise, however, given Phoenix’s large role in GS4’s plot[3], this dis-inclusion was not as effective. In particular, I feel that the lack of presented reaction from the main-side-characters (in particular Maya and Edgeworth), while possibly circumventing the problem of confusing new players, was utterly unacceptable to a large portion of the fanbase.[4]

As a result, I have created “Unabridged Turnabout” to act as one possible scenario that was not included in AJ because of audience constraints.

The basic purposes of “Unabridged Turnabout” are:
1. To provide a ‘supplement’ to the flashback in 4-4.
2. To provide a possible lead-in to the ‘alternate 4-1’ scenario.
3. To attempt to avoid stepping on anyone’s toes in the process (eg. The GK people, the GS5 people, icer, etc.)
4. To attempt to cover my tracks to avoid getting my toes stepped on! [5]


______

Footnotes:
[1]- ‘Seeming’ vs. ‘Being’. A major theme in Shakespeare’s “Hamlet”. Read: Hamlet-Appearance vs. Reality. The point is that just because something seems like a reference, doesn’t mean that it is. Really, the only reference that comes close to ‘being’ I can think of in AJ is, in fact, the magatama, but even then there’s not enough STATED information. The word ‘certain’ is an annoying indicator of ‘seeming’. I vent my frustration with this matter in the court record of ‘Unabridged Turnabout’.
[2]-Ema, Meekins, etc. are not ‘original PW characters’, as they debuted in 1-5, which was not an original PW case.
[3]-The biggest case in the game was about him, after all.
[4]-This is all given that Phoenix is really defined by the people he knows. Think about it. If we were to replace hobo Phoenix with another hobo attorney, would it harm the storyline at all (not emotionally, mind you, I’m talking about the basic plot)? There are pretty much no ‘real’ references to old events/people, so I don’t think it would affect it all that much. (The Magatama, you say? Aye, there’s the rub, but even that is not given proper explanation. See footnote 1.)
[5]-The ‘online school’ is an example of this (emphasis on the ‘online’ part). Another example is Phoenix questioning his own truthfulness at the end.
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Ooh, Fangames. I see. So that's how people accomplish all the wizardry required to actually create their own Phoenix Wright fangame. I'd wondered about that... :inspect:


I'll definitely check this out!


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'This is Maya's magatama. MAYA gave it to me during a case that was EXTREMELY important to me. If I EVER refer to it as merely a 'certain case', please slap me in the face.'

I love you.
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Spoiler: Review for 'The Unabridged Turnabout'
Wow, that's great. I love that line Icer quoted, too. Priceless!

Then there's Maya counting Phoenix's psyche-locks. I laughed so hard at that scene... I must have replayed it at least four times. :oops:

But I also really like the bit when you can present the Magatama to Maya. I like how she observes that Phoenix never had reason to use it on her. I point out that fact in my own 'Ultra Course' story, but it's really great to see other people pick up on that, too!

'Headmaster' Edgeworth is a hilarious idea. Maybe a little too convenient, but I could actually see Edgeworth do that with a little more elaboration on how he came to that decision. He does have the unique perspective of having played both the role of prosecutor and defense attorney... (♫ "I've looked at law from both sides now..." ♫)

(Actually, maybe it would be better for Maya not to have phone or internet at Kurain village yet, and Edgeworth tells her to get it immediately, as Master she can do it even if it ruins Kurain's 'removed from civilization' image. Maya can ask why and Edgeworth launches into his headmaster spiel.)

The idea of Maya as a defense attorney was well presented, but again, it could be made even better by making it less sudden and contrived. Maybe Maya already had considered the idea for a while, and maybe Edgeworth's school is already up and running, a smashing success that makes waves throughout Europe. Put a little more work into integrating your ideas as a logical continuation from the end of T&T - I think the effort would be well-rewarded! :peal-mia:

I'm sorry, but I can't say I liked Maya's attorney theme tune too much. It's well-composed, but all the minor chords that made up the essence of the 'Turnabout Sisters' theme are gone. I don't think 'Turnabout Sisters' works without them, which is why I don't think this theme works as a reinterpretation of that theme. Other than that, the theme does have some appeal. It does resemble Edgeworth's JFA theme with its majestic, formal undertones.


All in all, this is a pretty decent supplement to bridge the gap between T&T and AJ, and go in a slightly different direction. If you continue expanding and polishing it like you said was your intention, it can become a truly excellent work! :will:


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Quizer wrote:
Spoiler: Review for 'The Unabridged Turnabout'

Then there's Maya counting Phoenix's psyche-locks. I laughed so hard at that scene... I must have replayed it at least four times. :oops:

Quizer


I must have missed that... Were was that? :payne:

Anyways, it looks really good! I say you continue this good line of work!
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Hugtenburg wrote:
I must have missed that... Were was that? :payne:

Anyways, it looks really good! I say you continue this good line of work!
Try not to let Maya know about the disbarment to see that scene. It's possibly the funniest thing in the entire piece.


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Quizer wrote:
I'm sorry, but I can't say I liked Maya's attorney theme tune too much. It's well-composed, but all the minor chords that made up the essence of the 'Turnabout Sisters' theme are gone. I don't think 'Turnabout Sisters' works without them, which is why I don't think this theme works as a reinterpretation of that theme. Other than that, the theme does have some appeal. It does resemble Edgeworth's JFA theme with its majestic, formal undertones.

Then think of it as a new Maya theme derived from Turnabout Sisters?
I've got to say Edgeworth as Headmaster did kind of come out of nowhere but never mind.

"...I believe you, Nick. Just as you believed in me, all those times..."

'I couldn't live knowing that I had ruined both of our lives...'


Ah! And the sad thing is, it's exactly consistent with their characters (aka what should have been in the game)
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Quizer wrote:
But I also really like the bit when you can present the Magatama to Maya. I like how she observes that Phoenix never had reason to use it on her. I point out that fact in my own 'Ultra Course' story, but it's really great to see other people pick up on that, too!

Thanks, in turn, it is great to have validation.
While I was trying to make “Unabridged Turnabout” more pairing neutral, I guess I couldn’t help but be a little bit biased. At the same time, things like the great trust between Phoenix and Maya are not simply made up by fans, so I didn’t see any harm in putting something like that in.

Quote:
'Headmaster' Edgeworth is a hilarious idea. Maybe a little too convenient, but I could actually see Edgeworth do that with a little more elaboration on how he came to that decision. He does have the unique perspective of having played both the role of prosecutor and defense attorney... ( "I've looked at law from both sides now..." )

Perhaps after his realization in JFA and sharing it with Phoenix in 2-4, he decides that he should spread his philosophy to others.

Quote:
The idea of Maya as a defense attorney was well presented, but again, it could be made even better by making it less sudden and contrived. Maybe Maya already had considered the idea for a while, and maybe Edgeworth's school is already up and running, a smashing success that makes waves throughout Europe. Put a little more work into integrating your ideas as a logical continuation from the end of T&T - I think the effort would be well-rewarded! :peal-mia:

Thanks for the great suggestions!
I agree that it was rather sudden for Edgeworth to just ‘start up a school’, so having the school already running sounds good. However since he didn’t have the ‘both sides of the courtroom’ experience until 3-5, his becoming headmaster, or at least implementing such a philosophy has to be fairly recent. At the same time, I have to cover my tracks for the coming of GK (which is partly why I went with the online-school idea).
Spoiler: space saver
How’s something like this: Edgeworth has worked at the school for the past period-of-time (since just after 2-4?). By the time of 3-5, with the help of his already great reputation that existed even before he was a teacher, he is one of the most renowned law instructors in the Germany/Europe; people travel from all over the continent to learn from him.
Sadly, the current headmaster of this academy is ailing and decides to retire. This leaves the position of headmaster open to election by the rest of the staff. Edgeworth is the natural choice and is elected unanimously despite possibly being away during the proceeds (for 3-5). Or perhaps with a couple of dissenters for added drama if needed (maybe the dissenters happen to be the heads of defense and prosecution, and they quit in disgust, leaving their positions open? Or should I just let go of the idea of Mia/Diego/Franziska being department heads?).
Taking advantage of the day of Phoenix’s disbarring (April 29), he doesn’t actually get the title of headmaster until the end of the current school year (yeah, the school year doesn’t end in April, but never mind! =P Perhaps his school has a different schedule than everyone else’s). However, he has equivalent power during that period and can alter the school’s system accordingly, on top of being able to choose his staff.
So Edgeworth returns from 3-5 with a new view on the court and begins modifying the curriculum immediately. He also greatly upgrades the school’s online system. Originally, all students had to physically be at the academy, but the teachers could still instruct them from any location. With Edgeworth’s upgrades, it is now possible to become an attorney from anywhere with internet access.


As for Maya’s wanting to be a lawyer being something that she has considered for a while, I think it might be too convenient to simply add Maya saying that she is considering becoming a Lawyer and having Edgeworth appearing to realize that possibility. However, I agree that as it is it sounds whimsical and of-the-moment, so it would be good to put in some background on Maya’s decision.
So perhaps it was something that she was considering in the past, but something came up that prevented her from doing it…

Quote:
(Actually, maybe it would be better for Maya not to have phone or internet at Kurain village yet, and Edgeworth tells her to get it immediately, as Master she can do it even if it ruins Kurain's 'removed from civilization' image. Maya can ask why and Edgeworth launches into his headmaster spiel.)

Good point. Maya wouldn’t have had any urgent reason for adding communications to Kurain prior to the disbarring.

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I can't say I liked Maya's attorney theme tune too much. It's well-composed, but all the minor chords that made up the essence of the 'Turnabout Sisters' theme are gone. I don't think 'Turnabout Sisters' works without them, which is why I don't think this theme works as a reinterpretation of that theme. Other than that, the theme does have some appeal. It does resemble Edgeworth's JFA theme with its majestic, formal undertones.

Fair enough; I’ve played the violin for 14 years, and viola for 2, but I don’t really have much experience with music theory, chords, etc. as I’ve never had to deal with it to the extent that, say, a pianist or bassist would.
As for the actual theme, I wrote it before deciding to start “Unabridged Turnabout”, so I didn’t really write it with Lawyer-Maya in mind. The image I had in my head was of Maya seven years later but as Kurain Master. Perhaps that would be a better placement?
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Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Thanks, in turn, it is great to have validation.
While I was trying to make “Unabridged Turnabout” more pairing neutral, I guess I couldn’t help but be a little bit biased. At the same time, things like the great trust between Phoenix and Maya are not simply made up by fans, so I didn’t see any harm in putting something like that in.
That's true. The magatama's description can be put in for the same reason. I really loved that bit... (Though I thought the T&T ending was fairly pairing neutral (if you define 'neutral' as the middle point of the line between Phoenix/Maya and Phoenix/Iris... :oops: ). In Iris' 'confession', it's fairly obvious that she is still (or again) smitten with him, but Phoenix doesn't really act that lovesick. I explained in 'UC' as him just being happy to solve the mystery that has plagued him for years.


Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Perhaps after his realization in JFA and sharing it with Phoenix in 2-4, he decides that he should spread his philosophy to others.
Whoa, that far back? It's true, I didn't consider that there are only two-and-a-half months between T&T and the disbarment, but pushing it that far back into the canon timeline might... well, be pushing things. :edgy: On the other hand, it does take time to set up a school, even if Edgey just uses the von Karma mansion... (now there's a thought! There'd have to be a school motto including the word 'perfection' in some way... :think: )

Anyway, I don't know how fast miracle worker Edgey could set up a school. The time he has has to be believable, but we also don't want to create too much canon dissonance(why did Edgey keep it a secret from everybody, except probably Franziska, who would have to know but keeps the secret for him...?). I guess you'll have to use your own judgment here.

(random side note: did you happen to say 'van Karma' in the game? 'van' is used in the Netherlands, we in Germany say 'von'. I might have mixed this up with something else I read recently, so ignore it if that is the case.)



Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Thanks for the great suggestions!
I agree that it was rather sudden for Edgeworth to just ‘start up a school’, so having the school already running sounds good. However since he didn’t have the ‘both sides of the courtroom’ experience until 3-5, his becoming headmaster, or at least implementing such a philosophy has to be fairly recent. At the same time, I have to cover my tracks for the coming of GK (which is partly why I went with the online-school idea).
I wouldn't concern myself about future games too much. Trying to keep up with the evolving canon timeline is a losing proposition. But chances are Franziska might not appear/appear only briefly in GK, so you can argue that Edgeworth simply left her in charge as vice principal of the school.

Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
How’s something like this: Edgeworth has worked at the school for the past period-of-time (since just after 2-4?). By the time of 3-5, with the help of his already great reputation that existed even before he was a teacher, he is one of the most renowned law instructors in the Germany/Europe; people travel from all over the continent to learn from him.

Sadly, the current headmaster of this academy is ailing and decides to retire. This leaves the position of headmaster open to election by the rest of the staff. Edgeworth is the natural choice and is elected unanimously despite possibly being away during the proceeds (for 3-5). Or perhaps with a couple of dissenters for added drama if needed (maybe the dissenters happen to be the heads of defense and prosecution, and they quit in disgust, leaving their positions open? Or should I just let go of the idea of Mia/Diego/Franziska being department heads?).
Edgeworth taking over the school after being elected as headmaster could work, though it's not as funny as them refurbishing the von Karma ancestral home... I guess you can't have everything. :sadshoe:

Mia and Diego being instructors at the school despite being dead is a neat idea. Only 'we have spirit channelers over here, too' is not good enough on its own. Either have him say something along the lines of 'Kurain channelers helped us find them' (Maybe Maya or Pearl channeled Misty so they could talk to her about her old connections - wouldn't want to leave Maya having to build up everything from scratch...), or, even better, have him hire a pair of channelers from Kurain village on a permanent basis. (Or two pairs, depending on how many lessons you think Mia and Diego would have to teach. The mediums would probably balk at losing more than half a day each day, no matter how much they are paid...



Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Taking advantage of the day of Phoenix’s disbarring (April 29), he doesn’t actually get the title of headmaster until the end of the current school year (yeah, the school year doesn’t end in April, but never mind! =P Perhaps his school has a different schedule than everyone else’s). However, he has equivalent power during that period and can alter the school’s system accordingly, on top of being able to choose his staff.
In Japan, the academic year starts on April 1st, and elsewhere, on schools where there's a bi-yearly system, the 'off' semesters can start on April 1st, too. Often, it's not possible to start in spring instead of fall, but sometimes it is. If it's online, that probably won't be an issue. Either way, let's say Edgey starts in the headmaster position on April 1st.


Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
So Edgeworth returns from 3-5 with a new view on the court and begins modifying the curriculum immediately. He also greatly upgrades the school’s online system. Originally, all students had to physically be at the academy, but the teachers could still instruct them from any location. With Edgeworth’s upgrades, it is now possible to become an attorney from anywhere with internet access.
Maybe have Maya be required to be physically present at the school for at least some of the time. Exams for example, certainly the final ones. By then, Pearl is probably old enough to cover for her as Master occasionally.


Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Good point. Maya wouldn’t have had any urgent reason for adding communications to Kurain prior to the disbarring.
Exactly. It's very convenient to have it already done, but you don't really lose anything by not having her ready yet? In fact, if she has to get communications installed at Kurain Village first, that's just one more element that works towards explaining why it takes Maya seven years to finish her education.

Actually, I wonder if seven years doesn't stretch things a bit far. *goes to look at the timeline* ... Phoenix took only half as long, three-and-a-half years. Maya is probably not some sort of legal genius, but if she's dedicated and Edgey's school truly is that good... Even juggling the duties of the Master with her studies and taking care of Pearl, she shouldn't take longer than five years, otherwise it might get hard to justify why Edgeworth's elite school still lets her attend. Edgeworth grooming someone to be a lawyer as his pet project and making some exceptions is probably something that the other administrators will let slide, but if it seems like Maya isn't getting anywhere, Edgey will start getting into trouble...



Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
Fair enough; I’ve played the violin for 14 years, and viola for 2, but I don’t really have much experience with music theory, chords, etc. as I’ve never had to deal with it to the extent that, say, a pianist or bassist would.
As for the actual theme, I wrote it before deciding to start “Unabridged Turnabout”, so I didn’t really write it with Lawyer-Maya in mind. The image I had in my head was of Maya seven years later but as Kurain Master. Perhaps that would be a better placement?
I think the theme sounds too majestic for 'Kurain Master'. I think it would have to fit in at least a bit with the other Kurain theme tunes which have a more mysterious atmosphere. Maya's 'Turnabout Sisters' theme appearing in it is really not a bad idea, but I like it better with its characteristical minor chords.

Actually, unless you want to try your hand at recomposing it, just leave it as Maya's attorney theme, the way you used it here. I think it might be the type of theme that grows on you the more often you hear it. Too bad Mia doesn't get her own objection or cornered theme in 3-1/3-4 - that might have been a good choice here.

I'm not a composer; in fact, I have trouble picking the music apart in my head, finding all the interwoven tunes so I can play it on my keyboard. I find it very impressive that you went to the trouble to design your own piece of music to use in this production. Don't be discouraged!



Equilibrate Concerto wrote:
As for Maya’s wanting to be a lawyer being something that she has considered for a while, I think it might be too convenient to simply add Maya saying that she is considering becoming a Lawyer and having Edgeworth appearing to realize that possibility. However, I agree that as it is it sounds whimsical and of-the-moment, so it would be good to put in some background on Maya’s decision.

So perhaps it was something that she was considering in the past, but something came up that prevented her from doing it…
Well, 'considered' may be too strong a word for what I had intended to say. Maybe 'thought about' would be more accurate. But now with Phoenix being disbarred and needing legal help, that thought comes back to the forefront of her mind, and Edgeworth opens up the possiblity for her to pursue that path. With background provided about how Edgeworth came to be headmaster and background on Maya's decision, that this isn't the first time she's ever thought about becoming a lawyer, I think this can work without seeming too convenient.

Like I said somewhere else, if it's something the readers like or want to happen, you'll only have to show it's possible to make it plausible. If it's something the readers won't like, you'll instead have to show that things happening that way was inevitable. The events of this game supplement are likely to fall into the former category, so just flesh the ideas out a bit more, show how it could have happened parallel to canon, and you should be golden.


Good luck with your efforts!


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Quizer wrote:
(Though I thought the T&T ending was fairly pairing neutral (if you define 'neutral' as the middle point of the line between Phoenix/Maya and Phoenix/Iris... :oops: ).


Haha.. I beg to differ, and I base my assertion on 'evidence'. Although it's neutral in terms of romance re: Phoenix/Maya, we actually discussed the symbolism in 3-5 a month or 2 ago and we found the canon is verrry interesting in terms of Maya's relationship role in the present replacing Iris' [illusionary] role in the past. We started the discussion on this page. I still haven't written that essay about it, have I... the closest you can get to a summary of the concept is here, read my post.

Maya getting internet in Kurain before the disbarring is maybe a stretch, but phone is not. She knows she's going to be both Kurain Master and Phoenix's assistant, hence she will be in Kurain sometimes, and she doesn't want to not be able to communicate with him while she's in Kurain by any stretch of the imagination. Also, internet and phone communications would just make sense for getting channelling jobs etc.

Personally, I thought that internet and phone line was one of the most amusing things in the game though...

Now Phoenix might have taken 3 years to pass law school, but he went to Ivy Uni for unspecified period of time... an additional 3 years maybe? He did some law subjects in that too, even if it was the Art Department. It's a little ironic Larry turned out the artist [and Phoenix turned out the hobo].
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icer wrote:
Haha.. I beg to differ, and I base my assertion on 'evidence'. Although it's neutral in terms of romance re: Phoenix/Maya, we actually discussed the symbolism in 3-5 a month or 2 ago and we found the canon is very interesting in terms of Maya's relationship role in the present replacing Iris' [illusionary] role in the past. We started the discussion on this page. I still haven't written that essay about it, have I... the closest you can get to a summary of the concept is here, read my post.
Whoa, and I thought I wrote essays. :ack:

You raise many good points, and I agree with you in spirit - I'm more attached to the idea of Phoenix/Maya than Phoenix/Iris, too. But I wouldn't go to such lengths to try and invalidate the latter pairing. I totally agree that Iris has issues, and that they won't magically disappear at the end of the case, or if Phoenix and her got back together - they will have to be addressed. But I choose my wording that way to try and prevent sparking off an argument about pairings.

Symbolic interpretation is really not my cup of coffee. :coffee: That long rant at times resembles those essays we all did back in school, where you're forced to find some metaphorical interpretation for everything. There is certainly some symbolism present in that case, but personally I think Dahlia jumping off the middle of the bridge has more to do with her not wanting to go splat on that rock shelf than anything else.

One argument that stood out at me is that Iris supposedly let herself be overpowered by Dahlia and locked into the cavern. Is there proof for that? Personally, I can't blame Iris for not having the temperament to defeat Dahlia in a fight of a physical nature. I see no reason to doubt her testimony that she was overwhelmed.



Quote:
Maya getting internet in Kurain before the disbarring is maybe a stretch, but phone is not. She knows she's going to be both Kurain Master and Phoenix's assistant, hence she will be in Kurain sometimes, and she doesn't want to not be able to communicate with him while she's in Kurain by any stretch of the imagination. Also, internet and phone communications would just make sense for getting channelling jobs etc.
Maya already has a mobile phone, so she doesn't exactly need phone installed in Kurain to remain in contact with Phoenix. I'm sure some of the old biddies who hold influence in Kurain in whatever way (elder's council or whatever) would object to business being done that way - if Maya was inclined to change that, she might want to get entrenched as Master first, but Phoenix's disbarment would force her hand.

They haven't had telephone in Kurain before - they needed to use a public phone on the village entrance to report the murder - so it doesn't seem reasonable to me why that should have changed in the meantime.



Quote:
Now Phoenix might have taken 3 years to pass law school, but he went to Ivy Uni for unspecified period of time... an additional 3 years maybe? He did some law subjects in that too, even if it was the Art Department. It's a little ironic Larry turned out the artist [and Phoenix turned out the hobo].
Maybe Phoenix did some subjects required for his later law studies while studying art (which is plausible, I just read at WP), which may have reduced the time of his studies, but that's some subjects, not all, and Maya is starting with law from the beginning. Three or four years would be a fast time which I would buy given Maya's urgency and determination. Five years is plausible if it turns out it's not as easy for her as expected or the Master's duties prevent her from focusing fully on her studies. But seven years is pushing it in my opinion.

Maya can probably delegate several duties like training new acolytes or whatnot - Kurain village worked even with Mystic Misty not around, and I can't picture Morgan as having been that integral to keeping things running, especially seeing as how she cannot channel. So we shouldn't overestimate the slowdown effect of being the master.


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Quizer wrote:
But I wouldn't go to such lengths to try and invalidate the latter pairing. I totally agree that Iris has issues, and that they won't magically disappear at the end of the case, or if Phoenix and her got back together - they will have to be addressed. But I choose my wording that way to try and prevent sparking off an argument about pairings.


Well, see, he specifically demanded to debate the issue that Iris was The Canon future girlfriend for Phoenix. (Strangely enough he hasn't replied to that one... maybe he never even read it.. sigh)

Quote:
Symbolic interpretation is really not my cup of coffee. :coffee: That long rant at times resembles those essays we all did back in school, where you're forced to find some metaphorical interpretation for everything.


Wow, how come I never got to do them? :( Ah, I'm a sucker for symbolics. I think the concept is beautiful. (The flip side is of course, that symbolics can also depress the hell out of me.)
Quote:
One argument that stood out at me is that Iris supposedly let herself be overpowered by Dahlia and locked into the cavern. Is there proof for that?

Yes, quotes in the game... I can find them again if really necessary...

Quote:
Five years is plausible if it turns out it's not as easy for her as expected or the Master's duties prevent her from focusing fully on her studies. But seven years is pushing it in my opinion.


Yeah, I agree, maybe there can be a timeskip in the game to a time a few years later, where Edgeworth makes a second phone call to Maya. It makes him being 'headmaster' less sudden too. Makes the Maya going away thing a bit more difficult to handle, but I'm sure you can think of something.
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Quote:
Well, see, he specifically demanded to debate the issue that Iris was The Canon future girlfriend for Phoenix. (Strangely enough he hasn't replied to that one... maybe he never even read it.. sigh)
Well, I can see how that huge... thing spanning several entire pages would be intimidating... (I really don't know what to call it. 'Wall of text' doesn't do it justice... :oops: ) I didn't do more than skim it and read passages, either. How long did you work on that one? :acro:


Quote:
Wow, how come I never got to do them? :( Ah, I'm a sucker for symbolics. I think the concept is beautiful. (The flip side is of course, that symbolics can also depress the hell out of me.)
Oh, I like seeing symbolism in artistic works well enough, as long as it is subtle (or not-so-subtle, depends. Anvilicious can be just fine, if it echoes a grievance of mine...). I just don't like analyzing it to death. I think you did take analyzing that bridge metaphor too far, arguing how the different relationships are all kind of metaphorically symbolized by actions taken on and around that bridge. It's kind of stretched too far when you try to interpret something into the fact that Terry never crossed the bridge, and comparing it with Phoenix trying to cross it for Maya. Dusky Bridge is nothing more than a location in 3-4, and it returning in 3-5 is more a case of Chekhov's Boomerang, a plot element that unexpectedly gets used again, for awesomeness all around.

I think overanalyzing things this way dilutes the legitimate, undeniable symbolism and references. Like the bridge being brought back in the first place, Phoenix trying to cross it to save Maya, the episode title, awesome lines like Mia's finisher that put the final nail in Dahlia's coffin:


Mia:
Since the day you were executed... ...the narrow bridge that once stretched out in front of you, has burnt to a crisp!
( :karma-scream: ZING!)

There's so many interesting things and references to that bridge already there that we don't need to go looking for hidden symbolism one or two meta-levels above the story itself.

There is plenty of evidence one can use to prove Phoenix and Maya's closeness and argue the possibility of romance between them, but I don't think tenuous symbolism really helps make that case in any way. I'd stick to solid arguments (Phoenix did try to cross that bridge without needing to think about the danger for a second) and conjecture (I don't think Phoenix would have done the same for Iris) instead of interpretation.



Quote:
Yes, quotes in the game... I can find them again if really necessary...
I think this is crucial to my understanding of case 3-5, so please append it to the testimony! :object:


Quote:
Yeah, I agree, maybe there can be a timeskip in the game to a time a few years later, where Edgeworth makes a second phone call to Maya. It makes him being 'headmaster' less sudden too. Makes the Maya going away thing a bit more difficult to handle, but I'm sure you can think of something.
Actually, I liked the bit that Phoenix's friends manage to put together a plan of action immediately - I don't think that part should be changed. If it is really necessary for Maya not to be done before the seven years are up, then some extenuating circumstances will be required to explain why she didn't finish before that.

But I don't really see why it should. Maybe Maya is all ready to argue Phoenix's case for him, but Phoenix sees this promising young defense attorney and decides to test him... though I don't think Phoenix really has that luxury, being accused of murder... again. He seemed quite blasé about it all as it is in canon, which is surprising given that he can't very well execute his Xanatos Roulette from jail, could he?


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Quizer wrote:
'Wall of text' doesn't do it justice... :oops: ) I didn't do more than skim it and read passages, either. How long did you work on that one? :acro:


Well, I had to end the debate somehow. I don't know how long it took. All I remember is I wrote it on paper, which was fun, but then I had to type it and format it which was boring and took way longer.

Quote:
I just don't like analyzing it to death. I think you did take analyzing that bridge metaphor too far,


Probably. Maybe we can agree on a happy medium? [Probably was pushing it too far. The case roles in 3-1, 3-4 and 3-5 are inignorable. (Since I've conclusively resolved it in my mind, I've lost interest in 'debating' it, particularly if I'm just 'preaching to the converted' re Phoenix/Maya, it's irrelevant.)

Quote:
There is plenty of evidence one can use to prove Phoenix and Maya's closeness and argue the possibility of romance between them, but I don't think tenuous symbolism really helps make that case in any way. I'd stick to solid arguments (Phoenix did try to cross that bridge without needing to think about the danger for a second) and conjecture (I don't think Phoenix would have done the same for Iris) instead of interpretation.[/color]


We did the solid arguments to death. People are always 'Oh Phoenix would cross the bridge for Pearl or Larry or Iris or anybody etc. ' (I'm fine with people deciding the couple might not happen, but people actively deny there's even the potential for Phoenix/Maya and no basis, *sigh*)

Quote:
I think this is crucial to my understanding of case 3-5, so please append it to the testimony! :object:

Uh, I forget if there are more, I'm not trawling the whole script again...
Spoiler: 3-5
Iris:
I'm truly sorry about
everything.

Iris:
You were working so
hard to defend me...

Iris:
But I was missing all day,
and we didn't even have a
chance to talk...

Phoenix:
(...She's right.)

Phoenix:
(When I met "Iris" at the
Training Hall yesterday...)

Phoenix:
(...they had already switched
places... and Iris was inside
the Sacred Cavern.)

Iris:
...I wanted to at least be in
the defendant's box today
to root you on.

Phoenix:
W-Well, it wasn't you fault.
You were locked up this whole
time...

Phoenix:
There's something more
important than that, though.
I have to ask you...

Phoenix:
Why did you help your
sister out as much as
you did?


Iris:
Huh...?

Phoenix:
If you had tried to get
help at the Sacred Cavern
yesterday...

Phoenix:
...you wouldn't have spent
an entire day locked up
in there.


Iris:
...

Iris:
My sister...
I felt sorry for her.
...Iris:
I always...
I always loved her...
---
vaguely related:
Dahlia:
But just then...
Lady Luck showed up.

Phoenix:
Lady Luck...?

Dahlia:
After that big earthquake...
she showed up, all by herself.

Phoenix:
...The real Iris?

Dahlia:
She said she'd come to make
sure the Sacred Cavern was
alright... Stupid girl.

Dahlia:
I came out from the Sacred
Cavern and got a feel for
the situation.

Dahlia:
...And I locked her away
in my place.

Dahlia:
I had finally learned exactly
what had happened...

Dahlia:
It was then that I learned
that the plan had actually
succeeded.
> Iris:
> After all, I... I helped plan
> the whole thing.
>
> Phoenix:
> What!?
>
> Iris:
> But I got scared, so I ran
> away.
>
> Phoenix:
> What are you talking about!?
> Why would you help her!?
>
> Phoenix:
> Stealing 2 million dollars...
> from your own father! That's
> awful!
>
> Iris:
> But I promised. I promised
> that I'd help.
>
> Iris:
> And...
>
> Iris:
> She didn't do it for the
> money.
>
> Phoenix:
> Huh?
>
> Iris:
> It was revenge. On our
> father.
>
> Phoenix:
> R-Revenge?
>
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Quote:
Well, I had to end the debate somehow. I don't know how long it took. All I remember is I wrote it on paper, which was fun, but then I had to type it and format it which was boring and took way longer.
Yikes. Either you write much quicker than I, without needing to think in between, or this must have taken at least a week. :ack:


Quote:
We did the solid arguments to death. People are always 'Oh Phoenix would cross the bridge for Pearl or Larry or Iris or anybody etc. ' (I'm fine with people deciding the couple might not happen, but people actively deny there's even the potential for Phoenix/Maya and no basis, *sigh*)
True, some people won't listen to any kind of argument. Which makes me doubt they listen to symbology even more. (Incidentally, I do think he would cross the bridge for Pearl, but he'd probably think 'Larry can take care of himself', and whether he'd take that narrow chance he saw for Iris is a toss-up. I won't argue the possibility. Probably not while he has no clue who she is as he did in the beginning of 3-5.)


Spoiler: "3-5 Case Script"
Phoenix:
(When I met "Iris" at the
Training Hall yesterday...)

Phoenix:
(...they had already switched
places... and Iris was inside
the Sacred Cavern.)

[...]

Phoenix:
If you had tried to get
help at the Sacred Cavern
yesterday...

Phoenix:
...you wouldn't have spent
an entire day locked up
in there.


Iris:
...

Iris:
My sister...
I felt sorry for her.
...Iris:
I always...
I always loved her...

[...]

vaguely related:
Dahlia:
But just then...
Lady Luck showed up.

Phoenix:
Lady Luck...?

Dahlia:
After that big earthquake...
she showed up, all by herself.

Phoenix:
...The real Iris?

Dahlia:
She said she'd come to make
sure the Sacred Cavern was
alright... Stupid girl.

Dahlia:
I came out from the Sacred
Cavern and got a feel for
the situation.

Dahlia:
...And I locked her away
in my place.

As I thought. :think: I didn't miss something, after all, you just interpreted this scene differently. I think the 'helping her' Phoenix talks about refers to case 3-4, and to the original plan they had for 3-5. Nowhere does it say that Iris switching places with Dahlia in the Sacred Cavern was in any way voluntary. Elsewhere it says Dahlia overpowered her, and I see no reason to question that.


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Ultra Course - A Phoenix/Maya fanfiction by Quizer
Quizer's fanfiction thread - Last update: Inconclusive Evidence Part 1/3 (Jan 07, 2008)
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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Dango daikazoku~

Gender: Female

Location: NYC

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:08 am

Posts: 77

Umm... Help please? I'm on a Mac, the newest laptop, and trying to play your fangame, but I'm confused. I downloaded PyWright, the game, Python, Pygame, PIL, and I don't know how to work it all. I'm only 14, my small brain cannot comprehend all of this computer speak. xD;;;
Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango daikazoku~
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title
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1885-1985-2015

Gender: Male

Location: USA

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:58 pm

Posts: 201

Hey... I'm new around here, and Was hoping someone would help me... But I guess not... :yuusaku:

Oh, Back on topic, I ADORE PxM There are so many reasons they should be together, We can't list them all!
So anyway, May I join? Oh, and lastly, I think Maya is still helping Phoenix, In the credits, she said. "The responsibility
of being the master, and the new manager of Wright and co. Law offices." Or something like that.
So I think Maya and Phoenix are still in contact with each other.
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Tragic Love A Phoenix Wright COMIC (coming soon!)
Credit to Vickinator for my sig!]
Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan ClubTopic%20Title

Gender: Female

Location: USA

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:33 pm

Posts: 69

I lovee thiis pairingg ! <3
Mayaa and Nick would be soo cute together. I wanna join this fan club :P
But i seem to be posting in the middle of some complicated argument .. ? haha
Andd hii twister ! Im new here too :phoenix:
that is all.
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