Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
FirexxxSaber wrote:
In 1-5 I thought he didn't take cases because Not because he didn't usually take cases...
Spoiler:
I think it was in part because of Maya, but the fact that he let that affect him so much that he stopped taking cases doesn't speak well of his work ethic regardless (especially since she was only 2 hours away by train... it's not that far...).
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: None specified
Location: Bizarro World
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:25 pm
Posts: 47
Croik wrote:
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Phoenix has a very haphazard way of choosing which cases he'll take, and even then takes them rarely. A really good lawyer would be able to take a lot of cases, innocent or guilty, and win most if not all of them - which is probably what Grossberg and Kristoph were doing to get as popular and as rich as they were.
But Phoenix's goal wasn't to be a good technical "lawyer", he was doing it to defend the innocent. We don't know how he would do defending the guilty because he refuses to if he can help it. However, from the little that we see of him in court, it's obvious that he is successful because of his faith in his client, his creative mind, and his perseverence to not let it end until the truth is found (or stalling by bluffing, whatever you want to call it). You can't say that he is lucky that his clients are innocent because even so, in all of his trials he finds himself in a tight spot because most of the evidence goes against his case.
Of course, he isn't as experienced as Maya or Grossberg, but you can't doubt that he has potential. I think that the only thing going against him is that he is just much too lazy, and not dedicated enough to lawyering.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: England
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 931
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
Salutation Here wrote:
Regarding what Phoenix would do with a guilty client, in the AA world, there are trials done to evaluate a person's guilt, and should said person be found guilty, they move onto another trial, which is presumably where their lawyer will try to get them a lighter sentence. It's possible that Phoenix only does the first type of trial, and leaves arguing for a reduced sentence to other lawyers.
I'm not sure that's true. In Phoenix's cases he fights to find his client innocent, and after that, the person who he ended up exposing (Redd or Gant or what have you) then ends up having their own trial which the player doesn't see. If Phoenix's client was found guilty (like Engarde) that would be it. The only reason you'd have a trial for someone who was already convicted is if there was some kind of appeal.
Unless you're talking about a preliminary hearing, which is only alluded to once in the series, but that's not to determine guilt or innocence but whether or not there is enough evidence to have a real trial at all.
Quote:
But Phoenix's goal wasn't to be a good technical "lawyer", he was doing it to defend the innocent. We don't know how he would do defending the guilty because he refuses to if he can help it.
But that's just my point - a "good lawyer" shouldn't be refusing clients based on his perception of their guilt in the first place. He's certainly good at solving problems and getting the truth out of people, and good at being steadfast and loyal and determined, but those qualities would be just as well suited to detectiving (yay new word). Which is why I see him as a great character and a greater defender and justice and such, but even by 3-5 I wouldn't say he's a great "lawyer".
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Spriting phailure
Gender: Female
Location: Owensboro KY
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:02 pm
Posts: 936
And while he gets all but one of his clients off the hook, IRL he wouldn't be that good of a lawyer. He always gets by with luck and not to mention he is more concerned with "finding the truth" instead of "defending the client."
Learning what happened with the circumstances in a case is nice and all but if, sy, Matt's trial was real, his attorney would insist that Adrian hired deKiller in order to get Matt off the hook, regardless of Maya.
I have many yaoi OTPs which overlap... And most of which involve the Gavins.
I do write/support yuri and het from time to time though.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: England
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 931
Croik wrote:
Salutation Here wrote:
Regarding what Phoenix would do with a guilty client, in the AA world, there are trials done to evaluate a person's guilt, and should said person be found guilty, they move onto another trial, which is presumably where their lawyer will try to get them a lighter sentence. It's possible that Phoenix only does the first type of trial, and leaves arguing for a reduced sentence to other lawyers.
I'm not sure that's true. In Phoenix's cases he fights to find his client innocent, and after that, the person who he ended up exposing (Redd or Gant or what have you) then ends up having their own trial which the player doesn't see. If Phoenix's client was found guilty (like Engarde) that would be it. The only reason you'd have a trial for someone who was already convicted is if there was some kind of appeal.
Whenever you get a game over, the Judge says that he's referring the case to higher court, so I was guessing that that's to work out the sentencing.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Rank: Desk Jockey
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:12 pm
Posts: 60
FirexxxSaber wrote:
Is Phoenix Wright actually a good lawyer? I noticed in like every case, someone has to lead him through it.
Spoiler: not sure if this is spoiler or not...
I totaly agree with this. I'm playing through JFA now, and I've ended up sighing all the time at a sudden "HOLD IT!" from 'someone else'.
Proudly taught some the word 'Yonks' the day I joined.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Pinball Music Fanatic
Gender: Male
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Rank: Desk Jockey
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 123
But I still think he is a good lawyer since he wins every off-screen case he has. At least I think so.
It's basically a writer's choice.
The McD
CR's resident pinball music fanatic. Also a nutcase.
Signature and avatar made by the incredible Biblio.
Signature and avatar made by the incredible Biblio.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Faith is for the transient people.
Gender: Male
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:01 am
Posts: 989
Noble Savant wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
Personally, I don't think that he's that good a lawyer, given that he's only had 13 cases in 3 years (counting the flashback trial in 4-4). I'd have thought that he'd have had more cases if he was a good lawyer.
I always assumed he had taken more cases in between those, they simply weren't important enough for us to play out, and weren't against the better prosecutors. He did stop taking cases between 1-4 and 1-5, but 2-1 gave a strong impression that he was becoming well known and did take other cases.
For that matter, two one gave us a glimpse of what phoenix can manage when he has more then a day to prepare. Then he got amnesia. Shame really.
Actually, we know that he ONLY took five cases in Game 1, as Edgeworth said in 1-4 "A lawyer with only three trials under his belt?", clearly implying that Phoenix had only had those three cases that we played out beforehand.
Proud supporter of Phoenix/Iris, past, present and future
Thank you Elriel! :D
Thank you Elriel! :D
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
True Love~
Gender: Female
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:44 am
Posts: 251
though, even if he's not 'good'. : P
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
私のホバークラフトは鰻でいっぱいです
Gender: Female
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1388
Spoiler: 4-4
I like to think he is a very good lawyer. But he still seems to be a little helpless even after 3-5. So, I think he has the skills to be a good lawyer with his odd style of defending, but he's still a rookie. It's like, how would you like to be given a task and noone taught you how to do it?
Thank you ILoveMaxGalactica* for the signature~
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Sweet Earth Juice not included
Gender: Male
Rank: Desk Jockey
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:00 am
Posts: 54
Spoiler: 2-4
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
Saloma wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4
I wouldn't say "easily." He had Edgeworth's help the entire time.
Quote:
So, I think he has the skills to be a good lawyer with his odd style of defending, but he's still a rookie. It's like, how would you like to be given a task and noone taught you how to do it?
Phoenix did go to law school, and had Mia as a mentor, so it's not like no one taught him how to be a lawyer. Maybe he just didn't retain any of his education...?
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
avatar made by Lunaria42. <3
Gender: Female
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 pm
Posts: 277
Croik wrote:
Quote:
So, I think he has the skills to be a good lawyer with his odd style of defending, but he's still a rookie. It's like, how would you like to be given a task and noone taught you how to do it?
Phoenix did go to law school, and had Mia as a mentor, so it's not like no one taught him how to be a lawyer. Maybe he just didn't retain any of his education...?
He probably didn't considering he said that Mia's law books gave him a headache.
Signature by Purple Angel.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: London
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:55 pm
Posts: 30
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
私のホバークラフトは鰻でいっぱいです
Gender: Female
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1388
Croik wrote:
Phoenix did go to law school, and had Mia as a mentor, so it's not like no one taught him how to be a lawyer. Maybe he just didn't retain any of his education...?
We're talking about the guy who didn't know what Evidence Law was. Isn't that one of the most important things? I think everyone Phoenix learns: in one ear, out the other. I mean, how many fucking times do I have to hear "Just think outside of the box!"
geo wrote:
I think that Phoenix is a pretty good lawyer. Although at times he bluffs his way through a lot and relies on Mia to save him but in 4-4 you see him doing really well on his own without an assistant.
Spoiler: 4-4
Thank you ILoveMaxGalactica* for the signature~
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: London
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:55 pm
Posts: 30
geo wrote:
I think that Phoenix is a pretty good lawyer. Although at times he bluffs his way through a lot and relies on Mia to save him but in 4-4 you see him doing really well on his own without an assistant.
Spoiler: 4-4
But that had nothing to do with his skill or talent as a lawyer, All I was trying to say was that he did do pretty well up to that point.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
geo wrote:
I think that Phoenix is a pretty good lawyer. Although at times he bluffs his way through a lot and relies on Mia to save him but in 4-4 you see him doing really well on his own without an assistant.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
私のホバークラフトは鰻でいっぱいです
Gender: Female
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1388
Croik wrote:
geo wrote:
I think that Phoenix is a pretty good lawyer. Although at times he bluffs his way through a lot and relies on Mia to save him but in 4-4 you see him doing really well on his own without an assistant.
Spoiler:
That's what I mean by my comment earlier.
Haha, I could just imagine Maya saying that. It would've been perfect.
Thank you ILoveMaxGalactica* for the signature~
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: None specified
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:38 pm
Posts: 5
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Zoinks
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 1914
If not, no, he was pretty awful without Mia. GS4 just makes this even more apparent.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
tell me if you know a better one.
Gender: Male
Location: here on this place.
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:03 pm
Posts: 170
FirexxxSaber wrote:
Is Phoenix Wright actually a good lawyer? I noticed in like every case, someone has to lead him through it.
Also...
And so many times, Phoenix has just bluffed his way through cases until the very very end.
So, is he an actual good lawyer? I haven't played AJ yet, so I don't know how he acts in that...
Discuss.
Spoiler: not sure if this is spoiler or not...
Also...
Spoiler: 1-5
And so many times, Phoenix has just bluffed his way through cases until the very very end.
So, is he an actual good lawyer? I haven't played AJ yet, so I don't know how he acts in that...
Discuss.
but phoenix need its 3 years that he a counsellor then mia had not yet finished died. he therefore not yet enough experience gained to be able do everything really itself
always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: None specified
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 2
Spoiler: 4-4
Well, even if he isn't a good lawyer, he's a good person.
(And one has to have SOME skill to be able to bluff so effectively. 
)
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
c. Alluvion wrote:
Why is Phoenix's judgement in 4-4 considered so terrible? My memory of the case is hazy, but
Well, even if he isn't a good lawyer, he's a good person. (And one has to have SOME skill to be able to bluff so effectively. )
Spoiler: 4-4
Well, even if he isn't a good lawyer, he's a good person.
(And one has to have SOME skill to be able to bluff so effectively. )Spoiler:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
I am the Objector.
Gender: None specified
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 211
Spoiler:
And back to the original question:
I think Phoenix would make a hell of a lot better prosecutor than a defense lawyer in 'real life'. Phoenix always defends his clients not by providing a good defense (forgive the pun), but a good offense. He protects his clients by proving that another, different person did the murder, not by proving that his client couldn't/wouldn't be able to do the murder. But Phoenix is good enough to have his own impersonator, and of all the cases we've seen, he has only lost twice. And considering that 99% of all court cases end with a guilty verdict, I have to concede that he has to have some sort of ability to defend his clients. And Mia didn't blatantly tell him what to do, she just dropped these annoyingly cryptic hints that, in the end, didn't help me at all. So I think Phoenix is pretty good.
But CAPCOM should make a game where Phoenix gets to actually prove that he is an elite defense lawyer, not being helped in any way by Maya, Ema, or Mia. The only time that he didn't get any major help from his assistant during court was 1-5, and I loved that case.
Whoever said nothing was impossible obviously never tried to close a revolving door.
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
"Suspense msuic plays" Oh crap, SAVESAVESAVE! Oh wait, that's my phone. And the caller ID is... MOM!?
"Cornered music plays"
Oh, ****
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
私のホバークラフトは鰻でいっぱいです
Gender: Female
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:58 am
Posts: 1388
The Objector wrote:
But CAPCOM should make a game where Phoenix gets to actually prove that he is an elite defense lawyer, not being helped in any way by Maya, Ema, or Mia. The only time that he didn't get any major help from his assistant during court was 1-5, and I loved that case.
Spoiler:
Thank you ILoveMaxGalactica* for the signature~
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
spr fckn srs peepz
Gender: Male
Location: Boucherville, Quebec, Canada
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 2422
Because while Phoenix is someone with a good mind and a good personality, he's lucked out on the fact that most of his clients were innocent from the start. In a trial where he would be hired to plead guilty and reduce the sentence, I doubt he would fare as well as he did.
http://vanderlund.blogspot.com - Because the only fantasy worlds I like are those I write myself.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: None specified
Rank: Desk Jockey
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:21 am
Posts: 54
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
The Objector wrote:
About the whole "Phoenix's judgment' about the evidence he recieved
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I think you're very right about him making a better prosecutor than a defense attorney. I remembering replaying 3-2 and being surprised by how much more focused Phoenix was on getting the killer than freeing his client (of course, getting the killer is how he frees clients, but he seemed to have a particularly strong drive in that case). Not to mention how useful the magatama would be in an actual interrogation!
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: England
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 931
Croik wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
avatar made by Lunaria42. <3
Gender: Female
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 pm
Posts: 277
Salutation Here wrote:
Croik wrote:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Signature by Purple Angel.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
What is my liiiife?!?
Gender: Male
Location: UK
Rank: Admin
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:02 am
Posts: 2504
Spoiler: 4-4
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Gender: Male
Location: England
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:03 pm
Posts: 931
Gerkuman wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
That's true. I always thought that was a bit stupid anyway, the way
Spoiler:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
nuuuuu, stoooooop
Gender: Female
Location: America
Rank: Admin
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am
Posts: 5255
Salutation Here wrote:
Spoiler:
Phoenix's prosecutors may have not taken that specific tactic but they were all underhanded, and had a habit of presenting evidence themselves that was incomplete or very suspicious, so in the end I think it evens out.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Esta un pollo en mís pantalones
Gender: Female
Location: The Netherlands
Rank: Medium-in-training
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:39 pm
Posts: 374
I read the title and I was all: "OF COURSE HE IS D:!", but now I'm not so sure
He does have terrible knowlegde, but that understandable since we're actually the players, and I ain't know nothing 'bout no law. Bluffing is a talent itsself, there are a lot of things in life in which you got to bluff a little. As for the help from others, I must argee. But still, it's only natural to get some help, you can't do everything alone.
He may not be the best attorney, but he's certainly not the worst (:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Mr. Ygrrjfjdosowhatever
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:11 pm
Posts: 609
Spoiler: GS4
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
True Love~
Gender: Female
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:44 am
Posts: 251
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
^ The son of Phoenix and Adrian Andrews.
Gender: Male
Location: Texas
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:46 pm
Posts: 41
SharpCookies wrote:
You know, I've been thinking.... and it takes some sort of talent to come up with some of the solutions he does. Sure, he may get a helping hand, but he has to connect the dots and figure out the case himself. And he always does. He's smart when he needs to be and wise when he needs to be (though how can we resist a panicking lawyer?). So, more or less he's a pretty good lawyer. Not the best, maybe not great, but at least pretty good.
Really, I was under the impression he's just a really lucky bugger. With really OP gear. Magatama, conections to the spirit world, evidence... the prosecution shouldn't even stand a chance.
Some of the things he did that makes me doubt his sanity, or at least his intelligence:
1) Confront Manfred von Karma with a piece of evidence WITHOUT a back up plan. Dude, you knew the guy was capable of telling someone to kill, at least have a gun, or make a copy.
2) Letting Franziska whip him out cold to buy more time. Lol, what are you taking a beating for? You have a desk, HIDE UNDER IT.
3) Letting the snob con-artist whack him over the head with a fire extinguisher. In the defendant's lobby. Before a trial. Wow. You really couldn't hear him, could you Mr. Pheonix Wright?
4) Taking that coffee mug to the face. I'll have to teach him how to DUCK.
And finally...
And most importantly..
PASSING UP ON ADRIAN ANDREWS. OMFG WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?! HOW CAN YOU RESIST ADRIAN ANDREWS?! D:
She's just so adorable!
"Blood Elf logic is flawless. Just don't get me started on my hair."
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?
Sparkling Jewel
Gender: Female
Location: Imagination...
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:43 am
Posts: 39
: I would say NOT.
: But Nick always pulls through!Meh, he's really, really lucky (I mean, those who have played AJ will probably know what I'm talking about...4-2 what the heck?!). But, on the other hand, he's also very determined, which definitely counts for something. I think he lacks something the prosecutors tend to have--arrogance, confidence, etc (well...again, barring that one example...gah, Phoenix, stop being arrogant. -_-), a complete and thorough knowledge of the case and the law--but Phoenix pulls through somehow. ^^ Partly by luck, partly by his own pretty-good logic and intuition, partly by his determination to find the truth, and partly by connections (i.e. Maya, Mia, Pearl, etc). He's a good lawyer, who just happens to have that bit of extra luck he needs when he's facing incredibly difficult cases. (And about Mia...well, it IS pretty hard to do anything when despairing or panicking. ^^ On the other hand, that's why I love Godot. Hits spot on. At least, to Phoenix, he does.
)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
News
Site map
SitemapIndex
RSS Feed