Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Quote:
Godot:
Who's the wild mare, Trite?
Phoenix:
This is Ms. von Karma. She
was the acting prosecutor
in your absence today.
Godot:
Ha...!
Well, I guess I owe you one
then.
Godot:
But you can go now, princess.
It's time for the big boys
to take the reins.
von Karma:
Just who do you think you
are!? This case is my...
Godot:
Hey, Filly. Know your
role, and shut your mouth.
I can't stand women like you.
Godot:
I'm only going to say this
once, Lady von Whippingberg.
Go home!
Who's the wild mare, Trite?
Phoenix:
This is Ms. von Karma. She
was the acting prosecutor
in your absence today.
Godot:
Ha...!
Well, I guess I owe you one
then.
Godot:
But you can go now, princess.
It's time for the big boys
to take the reins.
von Karma:
Just who do you think you
are!? This case is my...
Godot:
Hey, Filly. Know your
role, and shut your mouth.
I can't stand women like you.
Godot:
I'm only going to say this
once, Lady von Whippingberg.
Go home!
How is this NOT sexist?
And yes, Godot is a jerk to men too - like Ron wouldn't be fitting to a certain stereotype of 'masculinity' Godot prefers. (And claiming Phoenix was 'supposed' to Protect Mia, when this wasn't his responsibility at all!) So Godot is sexist against men as well.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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ashxu wrote:
Haven't played the games in awhile but the silliest thing I can remember is when the first case of the 3rd game, they actually believe Phoenix's testimony even when he's the suspect.
Well defendants generally give their testimony in real life court and it is taken into consideration, but whether to believe it... but as Edgeworth said, the guilty will always lie, so perhaps to avoid Mr Airhead Judge
from believing every testimony he hears, they probably refrain from having the defendants testify.icer, absolutely correct and great bolding.
Although I think the 'Go home!' should've been bolded as well.
You know, the whole idea of 'women staying at home in the kitchen' thing.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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icer wrote:
Quote:
Godot:
Who's the wild mare, Trite?
Phoenix:
This is Ms. von Karma. She
was the acting prosecutor
in your absence today.
Godot:
Ha...!
Well, I guess I owe you one
then.
Godot:
But you can go now, princess.
It's time for the big boys
to take the reins.
von Karma:
Just who do you think you
are!? This case is my...
Godot:
Hey, Filly. Know your
role, and shut your mouth.
I can't stand women like you.
Godot:
I'm only going to say this
once, Lady von Whippingberg.
Go home!
Who's the wild mare, Trite?
Phoenix:
This is Ms. von Karma. She
was the acting prosecutor
in your absence today.
Godot:
Ha...!
Well, I guess I owe you one
then.
Godot:
But you can go now, princess.
It's time for the big boys
to take the reins.
von Karma:
Just who do you think you
are!? This case is my...
Godot:
Hey, Filly. Know your
role, and shut your mouth.
I can't stand women like you.
Godot:
I'm only going to say this
once, Lady von Whippingberg.
Go home!
How is this NOT sexist?
And yes, Godot is a jerk to men too - like Ron wouldn't be fitting to a certain stereotype of 'masculinity' Godot prefers. (And claiming Phoenix was 'supposed' to Protect Mia, when this wasn't his responsibility at all!) So Godot is sexist against men as well.
I just don't think this particular encounter with Franziska is the best example. It's like saying he's sexist because he had a rough night.
And I should note, "wild mare" is not necessarily a sexist term. Someone else in JFA uses it to refer to Franziska as well... twice, in fact... yet no one calls this person sexist.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Adrian in black wrote:
I just don't think this particular encounter with Franziska is the best example. It's like saying he's sexist because he had a rough night.
Having had a rough night does not excuse sexist comments. Actually, that's a terrible excuse because it's pointless. Having a bad night, being drunk, in any other way temporarily mentally altered, etc does not change who you are it just reveals it. It actually lowers your inhibition of doing/saying things you normally wouldn't.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
I just don't think this particular encounter with Franziska is the best example. It's like saying he's sexist because he had a rough night.
Having had a rough night does not excuse sexist comments. Actually, that's a terrible excuse because it's pointless. Having a bad night, being drunk, in any other way temporarily mentally altered, etc does not change who you are it just reveals it. It actually lowers your inhibition of doing/saying things you normally wouldn't.
C-A
I would argue that this is very much not the case. Several of my friends get drunk frequently, and I can say that their personalities differ wildly than when they're sober. It's not simply a revelation of what they would do if there were no consequences at all; many times, they've been horrified at what they've done just simply for doing it (I won't elaborate further to save dignity).
This is certainly a different scenario than being drunk, and perhaps some of these comments can be portrayed as sexist, but to say that these comments make Godot a sexist is more than a bit overreactionary (not a word, I know). Especially if you claim that he's sexist towards men as well as women. Being sexist means discriminating against one sex purely for them being a member of said sex; and he clearly doesn't act that way towards the majority of the women he meets (or, really anyone besides Franziska).
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Quote:
I would argue that this is very much not the case. Several of my friends get drunk frequently, and I can say that their personalities differ wildly than when they're sober. It's not simply a revelation of what they would do if there were no consequences at all; many times, they've been horrified at what they've done just simply for doing it (I won't elaborate further to save dignity).
I could easily counter that by saying that they themselves are horrified to learn what kind of person they really are, when inhibition is low.
And maybe it's a varies-from-person-to-person, but calling someone, who clearly doesn't want to be called a kitten, a kitten can be seen as sexist remark. This could go into the territory how I don't buy DiegoxMia, but whatever. I think kitten is a sexist remark if you don't like being called that.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
I just don't think this particular encounter with Franziska is the best example. It's like saying he's sexist because he had a rough night.
Having had a rough night does not excuse sexist comments. Actually, that's a terrible excuse because it's pointless. Having a bad night, being drunk, in any other way temporarily mentally altered, etc does not change who you are it just reveals it. It actually lowers your inhibition of doing/saying things you normally wouldn't.
C-A
I won't deny having your inhibitions lowered will reveal more of who you are.
Being drunk, it depends. It might show the truth, but at the same time, can greatly exaggerate it.
That said, I don't think this encounter with Franziska is some great reveal of Godot as a sexist. I could buy the Ron or Phoenix thing, and even possibly the "kitten" references to Mia and Dahlia. Truthfully, I'm on the fence about the whole thing, because I'm aware of everything he's been through.
But I know most folks who despise Godot have zero interest in being objective towards him, and it's just easier to label him a jerk, or sexist, or a few other creative terms rather than really think about what makes him tick.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
I would argue that this is very much not the case. Several of my friends get drunk frequently, and I can say that their personalities differ wildly than when they're sober. It's not simply a revelation of what they would do if there were no consequences at all; many times, they've been horrified at what they've done just simply for doing it (I won't elaborate further to save dignity).
I could easily counter that by saying that they themselves are horrified to learn what kind of person they really are, when inhibition is low.
And maybe it's a varies-from-person-to-person, but calling someone, who clearly doesn't want to be called a kitten, a kitten can be seen as sexist remark. This could go into the territory how I don't buy DiegoxMia, but whatever. I think kitten is a sexist remark if you don't like being called that.
C-A
Well, considering that the game confirms multiple times that they're in a relationship, I'm not entirely sure how you can not buy DiegoxMia.
I hardly think kitten qualifies as a sexist remark. It's certainly condescending, which Diego was, but the condescending part of that is meant in the "I'm older than you" part of it rather than the difference in gender. It's essentially the same way he calls Edgeworth "boy," just without the animal reference.
Quote:
I could easily counter that by saying that they themselves are horrified to learn what kind of person they really are, when inhibition is low.
No.
No no no no no no.
Alcohol has been shown to have thought process impairing effects on people (as I'm sure you're aware). Putting people in a situation where they can't even think straight and are motivated to do very silly things simply because a foreign substance (alcohol) has replaced logic and reason as the driving force behind making decisions isn't revealing someone's true selves. You're just taking away one element and throwing in another to replace it instead of just removing one element.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Well, considering that the game confirms multiple times that they're in a relationship, I'm not entirely sure how you can not buy DiegoxMia.
It doesn't, it confirms one-sided Diego->Mia.
Mia->Diego as requited is never 100% confirmed.
Mia gets mad, but it could just as easily be about Diego being POISONED, which is an atrocity whether or not he's her 'boyfriend'.
Just because Grossburg says he was her 'boyfriend' in 3-1, so what. Mia never confirms this, and we're in her head. Grossberg could be mistaken. Maybe Mia agreed to go out for coffee once or something. Doesn't mean it's 100% True Love from her end.
Dahlia says Maya is Phoenix's girlfriend, and Phoenix doesn't deny either. That doesn't make it canon.
Then after Mia is channelled and Diego is forever in the courtroom, I don't see a Happy Reunion. She ignores him most of the time. There's no love confession from her side.
So Mia/Diego is never confirmed.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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icer wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Well, considering that the game confirms multiple times that they're in a relationship, I'm not entirely sure how you can not buy DiegoxMia.
It doesn't, it confirms one-sided Diego->Mia.
Mia->Diego as requited is never 100% confirmed.
Mia gets mad, but it could just as easily be about Diego being POISONED, which is an atrocity whether or not he's her 'boyfriend'.
Just because Grossburg says he was her 'boyfriend' in 3-1, so what. Mia never confirms this, and we're in her head. Grossberg could be mistaken. Maybe Mia agreed to go out for coffee once or something. Doesn't mean it's 100% True Love from her end.
Dahlia says Maya is Phoenix's girlfriend, and Phoenix doesn't deny either. That doesn't make it canon.
Then after Mia is channelled and Diego is forever in the courtroom, I don't see a Happy Reunion. She ignores him most of the time. There's no love confession from her side.
So Mia/Diego is never confirmed.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
icer wrote:
TheBlarghMan wrote:
Well, considering that the game confirms multiple times that they're in a relationship, I'm not entirely sure how you can not buy DiegoxMia.
It doesn't, it confirms one-sided Diego->Mia.
Mia->Diego as requited is never 100% confirmed.
Mia gets mad, but it could just as easily be about Diego being POISONED, which is an atrocity whether or not he's her 'boyfriend'.
Just because Grossburg says he was her 'boyfriend' in 3-1, so what. Mia never confirms this, and we're in her head. Grossberg could be mistaken. Maybe Mia agreed to go out for coffee once or something. Doesn't mean it's 100% True Love from her end.
Dahlia says Maya is Phoenix's girlfriend, and Phoenix doesn't deny either. That doesn't make it canon.
Then after Mia is channelled and Diego is forever in the courtroom, I don't see a Happy Reunion. She ignores him most of the time. There's no love confession from her side.
So Mia/Diego is never confirmed.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
C-A
Considering that Grossberg was around both Mia and Diego a much, much larger portion of the time than Dahlia was around Phoenix and Maya, the two are hardly comparable. Grossberg would have had a far better grasp on the situation. Plus, Phoenix denies that he's in love with Maya on nearly every other occasion that someone (usually Pearls) claims that they are, and had it not been the middle of a trial I'm sure he would have done the same here.
As for Mia not greeting Diego, I think the game makes it readily apparent that she never approved of him becoming "Godot." She even tells Phoenix at the end that the verdict for Godot was the only way to "save" him from what he had become. Mia wasn't happy that Diego was Godot, Godot probably didn't even want to confront Mia because he knew whatever time he spent with her would be short lived and couldn't last; the two had a myriad of reasons for never talking to each other personally. I hardly think any of that suggests that they wouldn't have loved each other at one point.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Something I remember from my days playing JRPGs and other story-heavy games... is that involved parties aren't always upfront about a relationship. At least, not in the sense of "oh baby I love you I love you I love you." However, their actions suggest otherwise. In the game LUNAR: Silver Star Story Complete (yeah, PSX, but I'm sure it can apply to earlier and later versions of the game), Alex and Luna have a few heart-to-heart talks, but never say anything about being boyfriend/girlfriend, and neither one ever declares their love for one another. In fact, in game, it's always someone else talking about how much Alex loves Luna, or Luna loves Alex. So what happens? Well, let's just say when certain circumstances force them apart, Alex literally goes to the ends of the
I know some are familiar with the expression: "Actions speak louder than words." I believe it's true. It certainly applied to Alex and Luna, and I think it applies in Mia's case as well. If she didn't feel so strongly about Diego...... why bother with the Doug Swallow case? Certainly she didn't jump on it just for the sake of Phoenix, a snotty, whiny, immature, temperamental, lovesick puppy she didn't even know. She wanted to get back at Dahlia for poisoning Diego, as well as for her other crimes, and put the she-devil in jail where she belonged. That's why Marvin Grossberg took a break from court to get the article on the poisoning incident. He understood just how important it was to Mia, because of how much Diego meant to her.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Quote:
If she didn't feel so strongly about Diego...... why bother with the Doug Swallow case? Certainly she didn't jump on it just for the sake of Phoenix, a snotty, whiny, immature, temperamental, lovesick puppy she didn't even know. She wanted to get back at Dahlia for poisoning Diego, as well as for her other crimes, and put the she-devil in jail where she belonged.
You basically put the answer into your own post. She certainly didn't take it for Phoenix' sake.
And even if Dahlia hadn't poisoned Diego, I'm sure Mia would've taken the Doug Swallow case because she knew that little whorebag had gotten away with murder before, twice practically, and finally wanted to nail her with something. Her hatred for Dahlia was larger than her indignation that Diego was poisoned.
As for that... well, I'd be pretty pissed if somebody poisoned and practically murdered one of my colleagues and/or supervisors. That doesn't automatically mean love. That's my problem with some of the arguments brought up in defense for DiegoxMia - not particularly by you, but by other users and other forums - that the smallest of things can instantly mean that they loved each other.
And that argument could apply to anyone trying to defend a pairing. "Oh look, they stared at each other! They're in love!"
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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#2. Mr Monkey's head in 1-3. I believe everyone knows what I want to say by it, so I won't spend any more time ranting about it.
#1. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 3-3 yet. What's up with this case? When I played it for the first time, I just couldn't believe this was actually happening in the game, because it was so utterly ridiculous. I know that people in the AA universe often act like complete idiots (maybe even too often), but there still was plenty of basic logic in cases and events. But "Recipe for Turnabout" just shattered that logic. How could Furio Tigre fool ANYONE in the world? He doesn't even look like Phoenix, he doesn't speak like him, he wears a cardboard badge... ugh, just thinking about this makes me feel like breaking a glass full of water or something. And then Godot says that he knew Furio was a phony all along. The game tries to imply that Godot is smart, but it actualy shows that everyone in the world is an imbecile and Godot is the only person with traces of sanity left. This is the worst case in the trilogy, in my opinion. It's really great in terms of humor (also I really liked Viola's story and felt sorry for her), but everything else just sucks.
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Spyro wrote:
#1. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 3-3 yet. What's up with this case? When I played it for the first time, I just couldn't believe this was actually happening in the game, because it was so utterly ridiculous. I know that people in the AA universe often act like complete idiots (maybe even too often), but there still was plenty of basic logic in cases and events. But "Recipe for Turnabout" just shattered that logic. How could Furio Tigre fool ANYONE in the world? He doesn't even look like Phoenix, he doesn't speak like him, he wears a cardboard badge... ugh, just thinking about this makes me feel like breaking a glass full of water or something. And then Godot says that he knew Furio was a phony all along. The game tries to imply that Godot is smart, but it actualy shows that everyone in the world is an imbecile and Godot is the only person with traces of sanity left. This is the worst case in the trilogy, in my opinion. It's really great in terms of humor (also I really liked Viola's story and felt sorry for her), but everything else just sucks.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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TheBlarghMan wrote:
Youse gotta remembah, I'M Phoenix Wright, I just got a bid of de sun.
-Fhoenix Wright
-Fhoenix Wright
Okay, you got me laughing there, I admit. I almost choked on my juice.
...but 3-3 still sucks.
I just noticed that the 3rd case of each game (at least through AA1-AA4) seems to be the most hated. Interesting pattern here... I hope that AA5 decides not to continue that tradition. It would be so refreshing to complain about things in 5-2!
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Spyro wrote:
#1. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 3-3 yet. What's up with this case? When I played it for the first time, I just couldn't believe this was actually happening in the game, because it was so utterly ridiculous. I know that people in the AA universe often act like complete idiots (maybe even too often), but there still was plenty of basic logic in cases and events.
I believe it was shown that Tigre was going up against Payne during the first trial, so it doesn't matter whether Godot noticed anything or didn't. And if he did first hear that 'Phoenix Wright' was taking that case, then saw Tigre, I'm sure he just decided to not take part in that trial as it wasn't really Phoenix. Why didn't he tell anyone? Well.... it's been mentioned, Godot is kind of a dick.
And I believe it was also mentioned that people were really frightened of Tigre-as-Phoenix. For what reason, I don't get it. He wasn't very intimidating except for his first ever appearance, when he practically jumps at you for looking at the motorcycle in the park. Afterwards, he really was nothing than a small guy trying to act like a big guy. You know the saying: the smallest dogs bark the loudest.
As for all the 3rd Cases being hated, yeah, probably because those are kind of the breather cases. The ones that don't really tie into the story at all - the ones that have no proper connection with the other cases as they don't seem important or seem just really lazily put together.
Samurai case with that freaking photo, people's incapability of walking on a surface that is not pavement and everybody on the first day, including the defendant on trial for murder, not mentioning that they weren't the only ones there at the studio on the day of the murder.
Terrible Case.
Circus case with unfunny circus characters, a blondie whose head is filled with less than air, a clown that really needs to shut up, a way-too-obvious killer because he doesn't appear until late in the case and a terrible motive for murder alongside a shit execution of said murder.
Terrible Case.
Recipe case with the mentioned terrible impersination, annoying witness who everybody thinks is unbelieveable because he fell for a reinactment of a murder and likes to look at women in skirts and god-ass boring motive.
Terrible Case.
Serenade case with the lowest intelligence point the police has ever demonstrated, idiot plot twists and pretty-early-obvious murder suspect - where the DS is literally telling us with the mix board to 'search for the guilty party' and stupidly prolonged because 'you cannot reveal a magician's trick' at any time. (Although they do that in court!)
Terrible Case.
Kidnapping case with annoying animations, annoying characters and even Edgeworth having a total idiot ball moment, thinking that the original area of death was on stage, although the angle of the bullet clearly shows it was a supremely low and close-up angle.
Terrible Case.
Apparently GK2's 3rd Case, having to deal with how things end up with DL-6, is a good case. I haven't gotten that far, lack of furigana makes it harder for me to concentrate and continue with case 2, but I am looking forward to getting there.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Spyro wrote:
And then Godot says that he knew Furio was a phony all along. The game tries to imply that Godot is smart, but it actualy shows that everyone in the world is an imbecile and Godot is the only person with traces of sanity left.
I always thought this was some pretty brilliant foreshadowing.
After Tigre's craptastic defense of Maggey Byrde, Phoenix's reputation took a huge hit. Godot knew full well that the Phoenix who put up that defense was a fraud, but he didn't care. It didn't matter who actually was taking the fall, as long as it looked like someone he despised was getting the punishment they deserved. Does this sound familiar?
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Voodoo Lady wrote:
Does this sound familiar?
...........No?
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
If she didn't feel so strongly about Diego...... why bother with the Doug Swallow case? Certainly she didn't jump on it just for the sake of Phoenix, a snotty, whiny, immature, temperamental, lovesick puppy she didn't even know. She wanted to get back at Dahlia for poisoning Diego, as well as for her other crimes, and put the she-devil in jail where she belonged.
You basically put the answer into your own post. She certainly didn't take it for Phoenix' sake.
And even if Dahlia hadn't poisoned Diego, I'm sure Mia would've taken the Doug Swallow case because she knew that little whorebag had gotten away with murder before, twice practically, and finally wanted to nail her with something. Her hatred for Dahlia was larger than her indignation that Diego was poisoned.
As for that... well, I'd be pretty pissed if somebody poisoned and practically murdered one of my colleagues and/or supervisors. That doesn't automatically mean love. That's my problem with some of the arguments brought up in defense for DiegoxMia - not particularly by you, but by other users and other forums - that the smallest of things can instantly mean that they loved each other.
And that argument could apply to anyone trying to defend a pairing. "Oh look, they stared at each other! They're in love!"
C-A
Perhaps, but I don't really consider anything in this case to be the "smallest of things."
Mia goes to great lengths for the ones she loves. How did she become involved in the first Dahlia case (where Terry Fawles was the defendant)? She was employed at Grossberg law offices as a lawyer. Why did she become a lawyer in the first place? She was living on a mountain with her sister, her aunt, and a bunch of other villagers... oh, that's right. She wanted to know what happened to her mother. She was gifted as a spirit medium, but she left everything behind to pursue the two men who had ruined the name of Misty Fey. Basically, she was doing something major for the sake of someone she loves. Sound familiar? She also didn't want to fight her sister for the title of Master, which was another thing. Didn't want to put her little sister through all the jealousy and pettiness and competition she herself grew up witnessing.
I'm sure Mia hated Dahlia on some level, but it seems to me after the Terry Fawles case, Mia was about ready to give up. Come to think of it, how long did it take for Mia to work up the courage to get back into the courtroom? Fourteen months, was it? However, I don't buy that she hated Dahlia more than she cared about somebody else. In fact, doing things for the sake of a loved one can turn out to be a far greater motivator. It can show there are more important things in the world than revenge or retribution (but I'm sure some part Mia enjoyed seeing Dahlia get what was coming to her, don't get me wrong).
And I'm not so sure Mia would have jumped on the case if Diego hadn't been poisoned, at least, not immediately. If anything, they probably would have handled that case together, just as they handled the first together... as well as all the investigating they did into the Eagle River incident.
And no, just because something unfortunate happens to a person you've worked with, it doesn't automatically mean there's something deeper there. But in this case, there is. You maintain that Diego was likely nothing more than a colleague to Mia. Well, if that's the case, why did Marvin Grossberg refer to Diego as Mia's boyfriend? Did Diego Armando not also work at the offices of Grossberg and company? If Diego was just another employee working at the same office, then why didn't Grossberg state that the article detailed how Mia lost her "esteemed colleague" or some other term? Why didn't he refer to Diego using office-related terms? Certainly Diego was a valued employee? Or maybe it's because he knew how much Diego meant to Mia, because Diego truly was Mia's boyfriend.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Quote:
Well, if that's the case, why did Marvin Grossberg refer to Diego as Mia's boyfriend?
Because he's old and thinks the small things can mean something big?
Joke aside, it can very easily happen that people are mistaken for liking each other, simply because they spend a lot of time with each other - friends, colleagues, etc. Other people see them together a lot and could easily come to the conclusion, "Maybe there's more than what the eye sees"
It's a typical, normal conclusion people jump to.
And as icer says, Mia neither confirms or denies Grossberg's assumption. That can mean both. Or she was focusing on the trial and didn't bother to correct him. Even Phoenix generally ignores the few times someone says 'girlfriend' in court when it comes to him and Maya.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Well, if that's the case, why did Marvin Grossberg refer to Diego as Mia's boyfriend?
Because he's old and thinks the small things can mean something big?
Joke aside, it can very easily happen that people are mistaken for liking each other, simply because they spend a lot of time with each other - friends, colleagues, etc. Other people see them together a lot and could easily come to the conclusion, "Maybe there's more than what the eye sees"
I don't see any reason why Grossberg would just jump to that conclusion for no reason. Mia and Diego work in his office. Certainly he would know them better than "other people."
Quote:
It's a typical, normal conclusion people jump to.
And as icer says, Mia neither confirms or denies Grossberg's assumption. That can mean both. Or she was focusing on the trial and didn't bother to correct him. Even Phoenix generally ignores the few times someone says 'girlfriend' in court when it comes to him and Maya.
C-A
And as icer says, Mia neither confirms or denies Grossberg's assumption. That can mean both. Or she was focusing on the trial and didn't bother to correct him. Even Phoenix generally ignores the few times someone says 'girlfriend' in court when it comes to him and Maya.
C-A
"Few times"? As far as I know, only Dahlia (masquerading as Iris) has ever suggested this in court. But then, she doesn't know either Phoenix or Maya very well.
Pearl makes the assumption a lot too, but she's a child and it's explained that she's very sensitive to any kind of relationship between a man and a woman, because of all the failed relationships in Kurain.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Adrian in black wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Quote:
Well, if that's the case, why did Marvin Grossberg refer to Diego as Mia's boyfriend?
Because he's old and thinks the small things can mean something big?
Joke aside, it can very easily happen that people are mistaken for liking each other, simply because they spend a lot of time with each other - friends, colleagues, etc. Other people see them together a lot and could easily come to the conclusion, "Maybe there's more than what the eye sees"
I don't see any reason why Grossberg would just jump to that conclusion for no reason. Mia and Diego work in his office. Certainly he would know them better than "other people."
Quote:
It's a typical, normal conclusion people jump to.
And as icer says, Mia neither confirms or denies Grossberg's assumption. That can mean both. Or she was focusing on the trial and didn't bother to correct him. Even Phoenix generally ignores the few times someone says 'girlfriend' in court when it comes to him and Maya.
C-A
And as icer says, Mia neither confirms or denies Grossberg's assumption. That can mean both. Or she was focusing on the trial and didn't bother to correct him. Even Phoenix generally ignores the few times someone says 'girlfriend' in court when it comes to him and Maya.
C-A
"Few times"? As far as I know, only Dahlia (masquerading as Iris) has ever suggested this in court. But then, she doesn't know either Phoenix or Maya very well.
Pearl makes the assumption a lot too, but she's a child and it's explained that she's very sensitive to any kind of relationship between a man and a woman, because of all the failed relationships in Kurain.
This.
So much this that the world can't contain the vast amounts of it.
Grossberg would have known the relationships between the people working in his office better than anyone. He would easily have known if Mia and Diego were dating, and I doubt he would refer to him as such in front of Mia unless there really was a relationship going on.
And while I can't say this with 100% certainty, I'm almost entirely sure that Maya is never referred to as Phoenix's girlfriend in court at any point besides 3-5 when Dahlia is testifying. At the moment, I'm doing a replay of every Ace Attorney game in leiu of Dual Destinies, so I guess I'll be able to confirm whether that ever happens or not before the summer ends.
(For what it's worth, it never happens in the original game)
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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I've just finished playing the original trilogy and I loved them all. However, I started watching a walkthrough of Apollo Justice and was appalled by Phoenix Wright becoming an irresponsible, cliché, supposedly street-smart hobo loser instead of the lovable dork he was in the previous games.
I don't mind a new protagonist even if it wouldn't have been my first choice (although this will be fixed in the upcoming game), I can understand why they would like to introduce an almost all new cast, I can understand what they were trying to do, I really can - but having Phoenix Wright ending up like that is just bizarre, hardly plausible and just flat out insulting. Granted, I have yet to finish watching that walkthrough, but so far I can't understand why they had to make PHOENIX that character - why didn't they just introduce a brand new one? It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people find him 'bad ass' or whatever, but I can hardly be the only one disgusted by his character development, can I?
Other than that though? Case 2-3 and 3-3 - both cases being irrelevant, boring and just plain stupid (I believe someone already mentioned people mistaking Tigre for Phoenix?)
I also think they go a bit overboard with the hardships Edgeworth and Maya have to endure. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'd like for both of them to live in a rainbow filled paradise filled with kittens and candy, but come on, they're both constantly being suspected of murder, Maya loses all of her relatives, gets kidnapped and has the responsibility of an entire messed up village on her shoulders, and so on. And are you telling me after Phoenix helps them both time and again they just disappear without a trace for seven years?
Oh, and how the prosecutors get away with everything, and that the judge doesn't declare people innocent unless you reveal the identity of the real killer (granted, this IS a game so too much realism would probably just end up hurting the game - but still)
Aaaaand how the majority of the female cast has to be super young, and that Phoenix, Apollo AND Edgeworth all need the help of cute, spunky teenage girls - of course, this is Japan we're talking about, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised, har har.
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Didn't work out well, since he remained bland.
Hopefull rectified in GS5.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
Phoenix' change is pretty much explained in AJ. Can't really blame him for becoming kinda cynical, although he was kinda cynical at times in the trilogy to begin with. And as for Edgeworth and Maya 'disappearing' well.... they kept them in the background to make Apollo the new focus, I guess.
Didn't work out well, since he remained bland.
Hopefull rectified in GS5.
C-A
Didn't work out well, since he remained bland.
Hopefull rectified in GS5.
C-A
Cynicism is fine, even if it doesn't really fit him.
Being apathetic and taken care of by his own adopted daughter is another thing entirely.
He also screws the rules, which he shouldn't be allowed to seeing as he has no money...
Seriously though, forging evidence like that? That's not Phoenix at all. I can hardly call that character development. I'd rather call it character derailment or character 180. Like I said, I would have preferred it if hobo Phoenix wasn't Phoenix at all, but a new character instead.
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Thane wrote:
Cynicism is fine, even if it doesn't really fit him.
Being apathetic and taken care of by his own adopted daughter is another thing entirely.
He also screws the rules, which he shouldn't be allowed to seeing as he has no money...
Seriously though, forging evidence like that? That's not Phoenix at all. I can hardly call that character development. I'd rather call it character derailment or character 180. Like I said, I would have preferred it if hobo Phoenix wasn't Phoenix at all, but a new character instead.
Being apathetic and taken care of by his own adopted daughter is another thing entirely.
He also screws the rules, which he shouldn't be allowed to seeing as he has no money...
Seriously though, forging evidence like that? That's not Phoenix at all. I can hardly call that character development. I'd rather call it character derailment or character 180. Like I said, I would have preferred it if hobo Phoenix wasn't Phoenix at all, but a new character instead.
Well, looking at some of the stuff Phoenix says in his (blue brackets of... thoughts or mutterings), whatever they are, he is kind of a dick and cynical and sarcastic kind of guy. I'm glad he was open about it in AJ.
As for that whole thing with forging evidence, well like my previous post says, it gets all explained in AJ. Mostly in the final case, but it gets explained. Unless you are referring to the Ace in Case 4-1, there's like a whole thread dedicated to where that thing came from.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Thane wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
Phoenix' change is pretty much explained in AJ. Can't really blame him for becoming kinda cynical, although he was kinda cynical at times in the trilogy to begin with. And as for Edgeworth and Maya 'disappearing' well.... they kept them in the background to make Apollo the new focus, I guess.
Didn't work out well, since he remained bland.
Hopefull rectified in GS5.
C-A
Didn't work out well, since he remained bland.
Hopefull rectified in GS5.
C-A
Cynicism is fine, even if it doesn't really fit him.
Being apathetic and taken care of by his own adopted daughter is another thing entirely.
He also screws the rules, which he shouldn't be allowed to seeing as he has no money...
Seriously though, forging evidence like that? That's not Phoenix at all. I can hardly call that character development. I'd rather call it character derailment or character 180. Like I said, I would have preferred it if hobo Phoenix wasn't Phoenix at all, but a new character instead.
I was pretty shocked when I first encountered Phoenix in 4-1 as well. It's certainly a big transition from the lovable yet sarcastic lawyer to the shady, evidence forging card player. So I can understand your reaction.
That said, trust me when I say that the game has an excellent backstory, and a more than sufficient explanation as to Phoenix's personality shift that will come in the later cases. Why Trucy runs everything, why Phoenix was willing to forge that evidence (pending the never to be finished debate over whether he or Trucy forged it), and why he's gone from being one of the nicer people encountered to somewhat of a jerk.
If you haven't watched through the entire game, stick it out until the end. I'd love to hear your opinions once you watch the finale (if you haven't already done so). I'm pretty sure I spent the rest of the day almost completely stunned after finishing 4-4. Some serious stuff goes down.
Sadly none of that stuff happens to be character development for Apollo. :/
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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dimentiorules wrote:
You know what's sad? People talk about how messed up the legal system in these games is. However, the actual legal system in Japan is very much like this. The games can almost be considered a satire of the Japanese legal system.
It is a satyre of the Japanese legal system. But I doubt that the Japanese legal system is as bad as it is in the GS-verse. I would wonder what sort of judge would repeatedly let witnesses alter their statements until
Seriously, would it have killed the Judge to demand a 10 minute recess to check the contents of the damn video tape in 2-4? That's a pretty good dumb thing, but I would personally put a ton of 2-4 onto the Dumbest Things list, so I'm not officially listing it...
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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2 Phoenix is unwilling to file charges of assault against anyone.
1 Zak Enigar character, ruined Phoenix Wright life, once and tries to do it again 7 years later
I will defend 3-3 tho, Somebody was shot (initially thought) in the 3rd segment and Machi was the only one without an alibi, They had to have arrested somebody
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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dimentiorules wrote:
If you think about it, virtually every case in the series has some sort of stupid moment in it. The only case I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't have any sort of really stupid moment is the first turnabout.
Of course everything has something stupid in it, but this thread is mostly about stuff that you really can't just brush off as a simple mistake or idiocy for the sake of being funny. As ExO says above you, Phoenix not filing charges against people trying to assault him various times? That's a pretty big problem, especially in 1-4 where things could've gone much better and less dumb, had Phoenix filed charges against Karma tazering him.
C-A
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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CatMuto wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
If you think about it, virtually every case in the series has some sort of stupid moment in it. The only case I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't have any sort of really stupid moment is the first turnabout.
Of course everything has something stupid in it, but this thread is mostly about stuff that you really can't just brush off as a simple mistake or idiocy for the sake of being funny. As ExO says above you, Phoenix not filing charges against people trying to assault him various times? That's a pretty big problem, especially in 1-4 where things could've gone much better and less dumb, had Phoenix filed charges against Karma tazering him.
C-A
To be fair, in 1-2, after punching Phoenix, Redd White tells him he would just twist the story around and have Phoenix thrown in jail instead.
And I can imagine in 1-4, von Karma still held enough influence to make things go his way, even if Phoenix had filed charges.
But after 1-5, I don't see Phoenix having much of an excuse.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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Adrian in black wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
dimentiorules wrote:
If you think about it, virtually every case in the series has some sort of stupid moment in it. The only case I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't have any sort of really stupid moment is the first turnabout.
Of course everything has something stupid in it, but this thread is mostly about stuff that you really can't just brush off as a simple mistake or idiocy for the sake of being funny. As ExO says above you, Phoenix not filing charges against people trying to assault him various times? That's a pretty big problem, especially in 1-4 where things could've gone much better and less dumb, had Phoenix filed charges against Karma tazering him.
C-A
To be fair, in 1-2, after punching Phoenix, Redd White tells him he would just twist the story around and have Phoenix thrown in jail instead.
And I can imagine in 1-4, von Karma still held enough influence to make things go his way, even if Phoenix had filed charges.
But after 1-5, I don't see Phoenix having much of an excuse.
But the only time after that was Von Karma's whipping (let go) Godot's coffee throwing (let go) and Tigre trying to assault him for the evidence. That last one he really should have sued for
Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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There was also the Richard
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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I don't think Phoenix particularly cared to sue Godot for throwing coffee at him, especially after Bridge to the Turnabout. As to why he didn't beforehand...because it's Ace Attorney and reasons.
And as for Tigre...well, he was already getting life in prison at least...an assault charge along with that doesn't seem worth the time.
Honestly, though, Phoenix is a pretty big pushover...he might not even care to.
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Re: Top 3 Dumbest things in GS (Spoilers)
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dimentiorules wrote:
One thing I don't get: In 2-2, Turner Grey was said to have got a gun off the black market, yet in 4-1, Phoenix says that the black market doesn't exists anymore. Did the government manage to completely destroy the black market in just 8 years?
When does he say there no black market? That would contradict 4-3 because they were talking about black market with the cocoon
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