Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Guess_Who wrote:
And if you really love Phoenix that much, there's more than enough of him in Apollo Justice. Without spoiling anything, one could say he dominates the plot.
But hobo Phoenix is disgusting.
He isn't even the same person anymore.
I HAD NO IDEA THE HOBO WAS EVEN HIM AGAGAASDFAHGHDKGNASP
The character designers got reallllllly unlucky and they managed to outfit Phoenix with the two articles of clothing I hate the most, and they got rid of what made his design awesome in the first place: the hair and the suit.
HE LOOKS HIGH IN ALL OF THE PICTURES
If I were Phoenix I'd get back in gear! I'd at least make myself LOOK dignified.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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.Stormchaser wrote:
Guess_Who wrote:
And if you really love Phoenix that much, there's more than enough of him in Apollo Justice. Without spoiling anything, one could say he dominates the plot.
But hobo Phoenix is disgusting.
He isn't even the same person anymore.
I HAD NO IDEA THE HOBO WAS EVEN HIM AGAGAASDFAHGHDKGNASP
The character designers got reallllllly unlucky and they managed to outfit Phoenix with the two articles of clothing I hate the most, and they got rid of what made his design awesome in the first place: the hair and the suit.
HE LOOKS HIGH IN ALL OF THE PICTURES
If I were Phoenix I'd get back in gear! I'd at least make myself LOOK dignified.
You state earlier that you're refusing to play AJ which is fine if that is what you want to do, but perhaps you should try not bad-mouthing a character you don't know. Its bad to judge a character by appearance alone. New certainly doesn't always mean bad and in fact it can often be very rewarding to give new things (and characters) a fair try.
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Mia_Fey wrote:
.Stormchaser wrote:
Guess_Who wrote:
And if you really love Phoenix that much, there's more than enough of him in Apollo Justice. Without spoiling anything, one could say he dominates the plot.
But hobo Phoenix is disgusting.
He isn't even the same person anymore.
I HAD NO IDEA THE HOBO WAS EVEN HIM AGAGAASDFAHGHDKGNASP
The character designers got reallllllly unlucky and they managed to outfit Phoenix with the two articles of clothing I hate the most, and they got rid of what made his design awesome in the first place: the hair and the suit.
HE LOOKS HIGH IN ALL OF THE PICTURES
If I were Phoenix I'd get back in gear! I'd at least make myself LOOK dignified.
You state earlier that you're refusing to play AJ which is fine if that is what you want to do, but perhaps you should try not bad-mouthing a character you don't know. Its bad to judge a character by appearance alone. New certainly doesn't always mean bad and in fact it can often be very rewarding to give new things (and characters) a fair try.
Hey hey
It's a character I used to know.
And I don't like the changes they have made.
That is basically what I'm saying.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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.Stormchaser wrote:
Hey hey
It's a character I used to know.
And I don't like the changes they have made.
That is basically what I'm saying.
It's a character I used to know.
And I don't like the changes they have made.
That is basically what I'm saying.
I'm not trying to upset you, but the problem I have is that you don't know the changes they've made to his character beyond the physical aspect. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover (please forgive the corny line, but it fit the situation so well). If you don't like the changes they made to his physical appearance and don't wish to play the game then that is your decision and I am fine with it, but I would appreciate it if you would refrain from bashing a character you don't know.
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice?
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This is intensely biased, but I do prefer Apollo. He grew on me quickly, and I like how his personality varied from Phoenix somewhat. For one thing, I was worried he'd be a rehash with similar comments regarding things, like the blue secret thoughts that runs on in the defense attorney's mind. I'm glad he's not as sarcastic.
I'm not trying to choose sides or kindle a fire or anything, just stating an opinion like the thread's asking. I don't see any problem with fans of Phoenix to continue playing his trilogy, and I'm hoping the skeptic folks at least try out Apollo Justice. Would you really want to throw aside a game you've all come to love to play just because the defense attorney changes? Granted, the reason you all came to love the game was because of the characters, but as with every game, you adjust to a new cast, right? In any case, Phoenix' role kind of dominated the plotline in the game anyway. >>
While most folks are dying to have more Phoenix in the next game, I'm dying a little inside if poor Apollo's role remains reduced. D=
tsukixkumori wrote:
He looks like a 10-year-old but sounds older than Phoenix. -_-;
火曜日 wrote:
However...I really really dislike Apollo's voice in the English version. I know he's 22 year old , but Capcom you want him looks like a boy, don't you? How could he sounds so old in English while he's still a teenage boy in Japanese?
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Mia_Fey wrote:
.Stormchaser wrote:
Hey hey
It's a character I used to know.
And I don't like the changes they have made.
That is basically what I'm saying.
It's a character I used to know.
And I don't like the changes they have made.
That is basically what I'm saying.
I'm not trying to upset you, but the problem I have is that you don't know the changes they've made to his character beyond the physical aspect. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover (please forgive the corny line, but it fit the situation so well). If you don't like the changes they made to his physical appearance and don't wish to play the game then that is your decision and I am fine with it, but I would appreciate it if you would refrain from bashing a character you don't know.
Oh, that's not the only reason I'm not wanting to play it.
That's just a peeve I've had for a while that I had to get off my chest.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Out of the two, both are hard to judge. Phoenix is the guy we all know and love/hate. Apollo is the new kid (technically he is a 'kid' in the profession as was Phoenix when he first started) and a new slate for the developers. We don't know too much about Apollo but give it time then it might a dead heat actually. But overall, I prefer the maturity of Phoenix and yet the new image of Apollo. Give it a bit more time/games then I might review my opinions.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Stormchaser wrote:
whine moan complain
There are people with legitimate complaints about Phoenix as he appears in AA4, from his personality to his behavior. You are not one of them.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Guess_Who wrote:
Stormchaser wrote:
whine moan complain
There are people with legitimate complaints about Phoenix as he appears in AA4, from his personality to his behavior. You are not one of them.
I agree. You haven't even played the game, Storm. Perhaps if you would come out of your little shell and give AJ a chance, you'd have canon to back up why you don't like Hobohodo. Like myself.
EDIT: And I know it's not just you. It's other people too. I humbly request that people give the new cast a chance before automatically labling it as sucking to hell. Ignorance is NOT bliss.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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What if I like both of them?
I loved Phoenix for the last three games, and loved really getting to know everything about him...but Apollo feels like a suitable successor to me. I think they did a good job with him, I like how he's a few years younger than Phoenix when he started, and they make him seem less experienced and more excitable...but by the end he seems to have gained a bit of experience.
...Um, yeah, not sure what I'm saying here
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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As for who I like better well, that will always be Phoenix Wright, the sarcastic bastard grew on me.
Apollo Justice will take some time to get used to but I will like him as well.My concern is what they are going to do with Phoenix Wright, character wise, in future AA games. Even in the few times that you get to interact with him and even present some evidence it is like talking to a brick wall. It makes me wonder why they bother to keep him in if they are mainly focusing on the new guy, in the end Phoenix is just going to be kept pushed in the background, reduced to a one sentence reference if he is lucky.
As for the drastic change in personality I can only see that happening if someone really close to him were to die, like Miles Edgeworth, one of the people he became a Defense Attorney for and the man he chased after so many years just so he could meet him again. Something like that would mess him up badly and I would even him see him leaving Law if he blamed himself for Miles death. It's spiritual similar to the alternate ending you can get in AA2 for lack of a better term.
I am looking forward to GS5 because at least we get the new game the same time Japan does and who knows? Maybe we will see some old faces return as well.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Overall, I though the AJ characters just weren't as neat as some of the other characters, and I didn't really enjoy having to deal with them. :/ And maybe it was just me, but the cases so far, [I'm in the middle of 4-4] haven't felt very complete to me. In both 4-2 and 4-3 I expected the trial to go on longer then it did, and when it just ended I was like: ...what? That's it? I already won? O.o The perceive system owns psyche locks though. Harder, but funner. But I think that Capcom could have done more with Phoenix and company, if they'd wanted to.
Spoiler: A note on Phoenix in 4-4
But we'll just have to wait and see what happens to Apollo next I suppose. And I think everyone should at least play the game, so they know what happens. It wasn't THAT bad.
It's far from over, and you're far from alone.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Spoiler: "On Phoenix in 4-4"
On the whole, I prefer Phoenix (specifically
, not 
) to Apollo, but I have to admit that Apollo grew on me over the course of AA4.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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I dont really know if this is considered a spoiler or not but im gonna hide my rant in it and if your interested then read if not then dont
Spoiler:
As to the fifth game i hope they keep apollo... it would be a huge "in"justice to kick him out after one game... I will say i wouldnt be apposed to spending 50 bucks on a Wii game with Phoenix on the cover
TAKE THAT!
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Phoenix > Apollo.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Spoiler: 4-4
Don't get me wrong. Apollo did have his moments,.. but compared to Phoenix, he just didn't have as many.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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All that said, I did prefer Phoenix, but I think playing him as the main protagonist of the forth game wouldn't have been the great. The reason is that he's gotten too good, and it's more interesting to play someone who, while competent, is still somewhat inexperienced. It's why you only played as Mia in the past, when she wasn't QUITE the amazing defense attorney she later became.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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Spoiler:
For people to grow to like his character.
Because of that, I prefer Phoenix for now. Just give Apollo more time.
Ha...! Thanks to Trabztress for the awesome avatar/sig combo!
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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We've had 3 games with Phoenix and Co, any more and it'd just get stale. You saw how T&T ended, I don't think there was much they could do after that without giving Feenie a break.
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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eifia wrote:
I played through the whole AJ game and I am not being biased towards the characters but I didn't like the game in general. It didn't make a lot of sense and it rushed a lot of things, especially screwing up Phoenix's personality. The game was very boring, the characters are bland, Apollo has no personality (I think) and the characters don't really hit me as something that I'll like in further games. I think they should have just left it as a 3 part game series. Capcom half-assed this game. Not playing it again.
Phoenix > Apollo.
Phoenix > Apollo.
That comes off as saying: "I'm not really giving an in-depth criticism of this game, I'm just gonna say it's so bad because I'm being biased even though I just said I'm not." And the fact that you said "(I think)" when you said Apollo has no personality shows that.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [No spoilers please.]
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as for hobohodo? well, i understand his situation i mean his life must be crap now because
Spoiler: why phoenix lost his badge
but given everything in apollo justice, phoenix does run everything behind the scenes. the game wouldnt really be possible without him. i just wish the character designers made phoenix look at least half decent. they took away his signature spikey hair and dark blue suit.
> the plot twists still never fail to deliver!
EDIT: i edited the topic title, spoilers are ok now just tag for others who didnt play the game yet.
EDIT 2: would a mod be so kind to move this to the prosecutors lobby please?
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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I liked him better when he wasn't the main character is another way to put it. Not to mention, Apollo has more emotion than Phoenix in my opinion, so I liked playing as him more.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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Probably the worst problem with Apollo is he's too generic, spends too much time just being some random lawyer avatar onscreen. He doesn't have much personality, and what personality he does have is pretty boring or gets old fast (Chords of Steel, 'Here Comes Justice'.). He seems to somewhat blindly obey and be manipulated by various characters (Kristoph, Phoenix..) without any proper insight as to why.
Also, though Phoenix obviously had help, he would solve the majority of the case himself and only have some minor issue causing the cliffhanger/him to get stuck and require his friends' help. In GS4, the cases are solved virtually in entirety by Phoenix, Trucy, Klavier and Phoenix. In fact, 4-1 and 4-4 are solved entirely by Phoenix, Apollo is literally nothing but a badge-wearing pawn aka generic lawyer avatar.
Most of the various characteristics which endeared me to Phoenix are absent in Apollo, which is quite understandable, since he's a different character, but they didn't replace them with anything either, leaving a boring, generic, uncompelling character.
By contrast, I liked the slightly idealistic streak in Phoenix - he was obviously practicing as a defense attorney because he genuinely wanted to help people, especially people wrongly accused with nobody on their side. His behaviour and motivation is explained by the backstory and we learn important topics like the reason he became a lawyer, and we are engaged throughout the game by his mission to save his friend Edgeworth and his devotion to his friends. (I kind of liked that sarcastic little streak of his, too.)
Note it's Phoenix's mission and Phoenix's motivation in PW1. Apollo doesn't really have any mission or significant motivation of his own, he's just been co-opted blindly into Phoenix's. He seems to be a lawyer because, well, you know, law seemed to be a good profession, and if he vaguely gets to implement justice it's all well and good. More realistic, but not compelling, so the lack of characterisation led to a lack of emotional attachment to his character. Sorry, Apollo.
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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Streets ahead.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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My comparison will solely deal with 1-1 to 1-4 of AA1, because otherwise it's simply not fair to Polly.
Apollo is basically the definition of a cardboard cutout. Let me ask you - at the end of the game, what more do we know about his character, his motivations, his reasons for doing what he does than we do at the beginning? The answer? Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada. NOTHING. We don't know why he became a lawyer. We don't know about how his passion for Justice came about. We don't know why he joined up under Gavin, why he wants to defend the innocent. They basically keep us completely in the dark about his character. The only things we do know about him is he worked under Gavin, unknowingly has a sister and mother, has the stupidiest catch-phrase since WWF started, and has vocal cords that sound like they snapped years ago.
Contrast this with Phoenix Wright from the first game. As the game begins, he's helping his hopeless goof of a friend out of a jam. We hear that was 'part of the reason he became a defense attorney'. Then, in the critical fourth case, the whole truth comes to light - as a child he was defended by Miles Edgeworth and Larry Butz when accused of something he didn't do. And he wants to help his friend, Miles Edgeworth, whom he feels has gotten into something over his head, and the only way he could guarantee access to the Demon Prosecutor was to become an attorney himself. This, in fact, fits extremely well with Phoenix's overall personality - he's pretty apathetic towards most things except for his friends, which he is fiercely passionate about. Phoenix received character development and is a well written character to show for it.
Now people are going to immedately click for the reply button to remind me once again that this is only Apollo's first game and I need to give him time to develop. Well let's think, didn't he just have an ENTIRE game where for almost the entire time we're in his POV? In just one game, Phoenix's character was fully put together, and the second and third games expanded on it. Apollo? He gets nothing in his first game.
And if you're going to make the claim the PW1 was written without the plans to make sequels, what excuse is that? All it proves is you can create fully developed characters with real backgrounds and depth, and expand on it in future games.
As of right now Apollo is just as Icer said, generic, boring and lacking in depth, and for you guys expecting me to immedately fall in love with him and wish for Phoenix to vanish off the face of the earth is hilarious. Give me a call when Apollo actully gets some shred of development.
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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Also, Klavier is too nice.
And it feels that Apollo didnt solve the crime in 4-4.
It felt Phoenix and Klavier solved it.
> 
.Storm Parakaitz wrote:
Guess_Who wrote:
And if you really love Phoenix that much, there's more than enough of him in Apollo Justice. Without spoiling anything, one could say he dominates the plot.
But hobo Phoenix is disgusting.
He isn't even the same person anymore.
I HAD NO IDEA THE HOBO WAS EVEN HIM AGAGAASDFAHGHDKGNASP
The character designers got reallllllly unlucky and they managed to outfit Phoenix with the two articles of clothing I hate the most, and they got rid of what made his design awesome in the first place: the hair and the suit.
HE LOOKS HIGH IN ALL OF THE PICTURES
If I were Phoenix I'd get back in gear! I'd at least make myself LOOK dignified.
Exactly.
He looked stoned in AJ.
Especially HERE
He doesn't feel like
anymore.It feels like it was another person.
Maybe they accidently took
to jail instead of 
!
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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to even the scales a bit. Change is good.Besides, I have a thing for hot-blooded characters. The kind that never speak below a FULL-BODIED SHOUT!
Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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Re: Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? [spoilers]
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