Mr.Nick
Feenie

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Hmm... lessee...

Nick - Maya and Larry
Pal - Gumshoe
Wright - Edgeworth
Feenie - Dahlia and Iris
Trite - Godot
Foolish Fool - Franziska
Keith - Yanni Yogi
Wrighto - Gant
Mr. Nick - Pearl

Uh... can't think of anything else.

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GAH!
I don´t know anything

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I simply don't agree with that. I think that kind of self-depreciating joke is right up Phoenix's alley. May have to just continue to disagree on this point until GS5 shows up.



I think you're focusing too much on the legality and not enough on the motive. Phoenix caused trouble in 3-1 because he was trying to save the woman he loved. By the time Phoenix forged evidence to catch Kristoph, he had already been a lawyer, had already lectured and been lectured by Edgeworth on the meaning and intent of the law, and had seen what a piece of false evidene could do to someone's career, even when they were not responsible. There's a big difference between a non-lawyer acting in a moment of passion, and someone who has been a lawyer and knows the rules orchestrating a premediated forgery. If the bar knew about that ace being fake, I think they would have serious doubts in reinstating him, and I think Phoenix himself should have serious doubts.

(What if the ace had been found out, and in a desperate attempt to save Phoenix Apollo claimed responsibility for it? Flashback case all over again! Now there's an interesting premise).

And sure, Apollo was not so smart, he did present illegal evidence without thinking it through--under the pressure of his client, formerly a famous lawyer. It's just not the same situation.



Phoenix will never be the kind of mentor for Apollo that Mia was for him, but I think that's a good thing, because I personally found Mia boring in that capacity. I agree that he may end up doing as much harm to Apollo as good. I find that possibility fascinating and would like to see it explored, much more than I would like to see Phoenix become a successful lawyer who flits around the edge of the game and doesn't contribute (or contribute's too much).



The literal translation of the Japanese case title is closer to "One Who Inherits The Turnabout." Since the "turnabout" has always been Phoenix's shtick I think it's clearly referring to Apollo claiming Phoenix's legacy. Whether or not they were successful in conveying this (by proving Apollo skillful or "worthy" enough) is a different debate, but by the end it was Apollo that Phoenix chose to be his lawyer, Apollo he invited into his office, Apollo he put into his test trial. I don't think Phoenix had to exactly say "My story is done, this is your story now" for that point to get across.



"Trust" isn't just about telling someone everything. I think it's a different kind of trust when you expect someone to act out your wishes without you having to spell them out. Phoenix trusts Apollo's ability as a lawyer--he knows that Apollo will do the right thing, that he cares about his clients. It had to have taken a huge leap of faith for him to ask Apollo to defend him in 4-1--there was a chance Apollo would side with his real mentor, Kristoph, and leave Phoenix to the courts. So I think Phoenix "trusted" Apollo as a lawyer, at the very least, even though he didn't give Apollo much of a reason to trust *him.*



Not to those of us who like (or some who even prefer) HoboPhoenix. I don't find that difficult to resolve at all. I *like* the character development they gave him, and would find it a waste if they just said, "Btw, he went back to doing exactly what he was doing before as if nothing had changed."



Ummmm Mia training Phoenix to become a lawyer in her firm and then being murdered is nothing like Phoenix using Apollo to get what he wanted and then kicking him out. Or getting what he wanted and then moving his practice. I don't think that would be fair to Apollo or to Trucy.

You've brought up several times that Phoenix is a poor mentor to Apollo, and I agree. But that's what makes it so interesting to me. I like that Phoenix is not totally upfront with him, that he cares what happens to Apollo (at the end he tells Thalassa how important Apollo and Trucy are both to him) but not as much as he cares about his objectives, that he wants to do the right thing re: catching Kristoph/fixing the law, but isn't able to find a legal way to do it and turns to illegal means. I like the idea of Phoenix being a mostly hands-off mentor to Apollo in the future (or not a mentor at all - who says he HAS to have one?) and even the idea of them having disagreements, of Apollo being frustrated with him and calling him on it, of Phoenix finally admitting that he cares about the little guy to his face. These are all more interesting to me than assuming Phoenix becomes a lawyer and lives happily ever after off screen.

Which may be the reason we'll never agree B:

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Well to each their own I guess. I'm just glad there are some people on this forum like you who understand we all have opinions and not one person is right.

I do have to agree though, if Phoenix absolutely cannot become a lawyer again, he would make an excellent private investigator. I hope whatever he does, it's something that he can put his talents to so everything he learned in the series doesn't go to waste.

Oh, here's a little preview of the first chapter in my fan fic, thought you guys might get a chuckle out of it.

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Your fic seems like it's coming along nicely, DarkWobbuffet. :3

But, wouldn't Maya be 26 instead of 20?

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Ah yeah, I forgot to mention, this story is AU in the way that it takes place a few months after Trials and Tribulations. I speed up Apollo's age so I could get him into the story properly.

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well . . .
After all it is a fan FICTION!
so I see no problem here!Keep up the fine work!

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good list! I'm pretty sure someone calls him porcupine head...

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Porcupine Head-April May

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He inherited a 'turnabout'? But that just means Apollo inherited the right to specifically turnabout 4-4, not being a lawyer in Phoenix's place generally. Which is what happened, basically. Phoenix did all the work, and Apollo took his 7 years of work and did the final piece [Turnabout] requiring a lawyer badge... Except Kristoph seemed to break down over the jurist system anyway... That seems to imply inheriting Phoenix's legacy generally even less than the ENG title.
The series name is about Turnabouts, it's only tied the term 'turnabout' to Phoenix himself simply because he was the main character of the previous titles.

Oh and Phoenix also showed himself to be too corrupt to oversee the jurist system, so let's hope they don't try that one in future games...


People forget the connotations of being a defendant, rather than a lawyer or bystander 3rd party. What happens if Phoenix is found guilty? Probably the death penalty. The stakes are just totally different. Would you bend a few rules to save your own life, if the only one who was likely to suffer was the real murderer? Most people would. And letting Kristoph pin the murder on Orly would be far more unethical than the card thing, even if Phoenix himself wasn't 'breaking any rules' by allowing it to occur.

Phoenix's rule breaking, corruption and general disenfranchisement seem to stem from:
-a lack of empowerment to carry out his goals by legal means any more, due to the loss of his badge, which was a total injustice
-a disenfranchisement with the legal system generally, which he now considers broken, to bring up the jury thing (although I'm not sure they did a very good job in conveying this or exactly what was supposed to be wrong with it.)

As you can see, the end of 4-4 'corrects' both these. I don't get the sense Phoenix wants to achieve his goals by breaking rules, forging evidence and exploiting Apollo; he simply feels he has no choice in that situation since the loss of his badge. I also think Phoenix was enough of a rule-bending deviant even by the original series to not think his evidence forgery, taken in proper context, renders him morally unfit to ever be a lawyer again. He shows obvious regret and shame over it (witness punching scene) but I think he'll see it as the best of a number of questionable choices in a very bad situation, and move on. If he can achieve his justice goals without breaking rules (having the empowerment to be a lawyer himself instead of forging evidence and hijacking 'Apollo's' defense) I'm sure he would prefer to do so.


What else could Phoenix do though? It was Kristoph or Apollo really. [Taking a state defense attorney would have made the 'catch Kristoph' goal far more difficult, and seemed strange if he was Kristoph's 'friend', and made the plot unworkable..] I'm not sure if it's established Phoenix even knew about Apollo before the murder. He didn't know his name, after all. They'd never met.

Haha. I already wrote this once on the Kink Meme. It was too late, Phoenix already claimed responsibility, and did so again - I don't think he's low enough to let Apollo take the fall, and the court will believe Phoenix - he's the evidence forging fraud, remember? Apollo could do nothing, the judge ignored all his efforts and Phoenix was sent to death row...
(so I polled the readers and asked if they wanted Apollo to save him, but they all demanded Mia be channelled and act as his defense in the final appeal instead... which was sort of difficult, so I decided Edgeworth could send over some generic actual lawyer to work in conjunction with Mia... I never did finish the story though. Maybe I should.)


And a 'known' evidence forger! We know that the card isn't an exact replication of the diary page incident - but it's pretty obvious it was inserted as a direct symbolic parallel, which is 'why' Phoenix did it, in terms of writing.

I meant her leaving at the end of 3-5. Vanishes into thin air.
I think it would be intelligent for Apollo himself to decide to open his own practice, separate from the 'talent agency'. Doesn't he get paid in pudding? Really, the only benefit 'mentor' Phoenix actually gave him was trial experience he might otherwise not have been able to have, not advice or anything, and now that Apollo has had 4 trial wins, including the high profile 4-4, he has enough lawyer reputation to attract clients/cases himself, surely. Like I said before, they can timeskip more than 1 year so it doesn't look like Phoenix kicked him out straight away.


Yeah. It's evident from your comments you formed some level of affection and attachment to Apollo. I did not, it's all in Phoenix's corner, and GS4 just increased my affection for Phoenix, as it made him more interesting and empathetic to his character. All your desires centre around Phoenix being a resource for developing and benefiting Apollo's character, and not vice versa. And that, shallow as it is, is probably the real reason we'll never agree...(and possibly the problem at the heart of the Phoenix 'vs' Apollo' thing, but we're not supposed to mention that). Phoenix was NOT just a 'mentor' character invented with solely the purpose of developing the protagonist. I think Phoenix's fans generally feel he should be treated with a little more respect by the writers (after all, he's the reason the series succeeded and they even have a GS4+).

Even precedent characters who were invented solely to be 'protagonist's mentor' [Mia] are framed in a positive light and are given significant personal benefits for their own characters. Phoenix got benefit out of Apollo [resolving the '7 years ago' thing] but really, there isn't any more 'unfinished business' in the style of GS3 Mia that Apollo can resolve for Phoenix. We've seen all Phoenix's past, so it's hard for them to invent any. Now he's not barred from being a lawyer, there's nothing Apollo can do for Phoenix which Phoenix can't do for himself. He's not dead like Mia. So really, Phoenix hanging around in close proximity to Apollo as 'not a lawyer' seems pretty useless for either character.

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Ah, gotcha. I knew that you mentioned it was an AU, I just wasn't sure about the exact details. ^_^ I like it, though!!

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Yes you should. I love that fic and I'm interested to see where you're going with it. I say go for it.

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Hooray for Phoenix! :D

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Hm, methinks this topic is getting buried, so I think it's time to liven it up with a new discussion.

Who do you like best as a romantic interest for Phoenix, and why?

For me it's gotta be Maya. At first I didn't think much of this pairing in the first game, and just dismissed their eelationship as a brother/sister bond. It wasn't until 2-2 that I started seeing it in a different way. Phoenix's attitude to helping Maya just felt... more then just her being a sister to him, then 2-4 sealed it when he said these words...

"But now I can't even help the person closest to me!"

And Trials and Tribulations only increased the hints. ./'

???: Hello! Bee avenue!
Phoenix: (Wow what a cute voice.)
Maya: Oh, it's just you Nick. So, what do you think? *poses in waitress outfit*
Phoenix: ...I think you should quit being a spirit medium.

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I say Franny. 3-5 helped with this you know. It seems that Franny is fond of Feenie, so to say. But untill I played 3-5 I shipped Phoenix/Maya, too. But eh, times passed, so did shipments ;)

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All my straight couplings for him have all been scorned in game play. Maya- they're so brother and sister. I'm sorry, but as cute as they are together, that's the best that they are. Phoenix is a pervert to ALL cute women so I totally discount it do to lack of motivation. I'd pass a Maya x Miles, but Phoenix always seems to treat her as a sidekick to me. Maybe they do like eachother? Who knows. I dont' feel it. Phoenix Fran is cute but no go to me. She scares Phoenix too much. I'm more Fran x Adrian. I think it's more a crack pairing. Phoenix Iris was brokenfor me by AJ1 with him not ONCE mentioning Iris, and Trucy being totally clueless about who she was.

My best guess? (Besides the obvious Phoenix Miles <3 )

Phoenix x Lumoire. It makes sense. I'm all for canon anyways. Till Phoenix physically does somethign romantic for someone rather than just flirt, then I don't OTP it. :(

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For me is it Pheoix and Iris/Maya
I can´t decide
Reasons are common knowledge

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Miles, for sure. <3

Some of the conversations that they had just had so much subtext in them, I couldn't not ship it. Plus, they're all best friends and such, so it would be sweet.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm pretty tired right now. ^_^;;

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I'm caught between Phoenix/Maya and Phoenix/Franziska.

(You knew this was coming )

I started out as a P/M fan with P/I 2nd, but once i saw the whole story P/I became #1 (and later P/M disappeared from my list).
IDK i guess it's the whole "lost love" thing about it that makes it good.

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I was taken by Fenniris for a while too, but they meantion NOTHING about her in AJ in anyway shape or form, and Trucy pines over Phoenix getting a g/f, and we all know how long Trucy has been around



Doesn't Phoenix go and visit her ONCE? Doesn't Trucy pick up on Phoenix having a previous love that he still cares for? There may've once been puppy love between the two of them but that all it ever was- cute. That broke my heart. I kinda hoped that CAPCOM would follow through with one reoccuring romance... although Gumshoe x Maggeh sounds like it' a goer. You never see them as an actual in game couple though T.T Just 'flirting' >.>

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seconded

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This, but exactly opposite.
I think Maya would be best for Nick, since she probably knows Nick better than anybody else, for starters.

Don´t say that too loud.this could turn into a pairing discussion NO ONE wants

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........................Wow.
The topic is who do you think is best for Nick.
I said who I thought was best for Nick.
OH GOD, SOMEBODY CALL THE MODS!

Nicky boy is what Desiree calls him :3

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I think Maya :P
I think the friends turned couple idea is pretty much adorable,
and I love how Nick seems to be willing to do anything for her (whether they are a couple or not) :)

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Last edited by Babess on Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Daddy -
Phoenix Wright -
Mia Fey - Ema (first encounter lol. That actually doesn't count)
There were some special names, called by Victor and Furio, but I can't remember them nao

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Hm, so I'm sure every fan of Phoenix by now knows about his appearance in the Tatsunoko vs. Capcom artbook.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/vs/img_upload/file01.jpg

Dunno if this means he'll be in as a secret playable character or if this is just Capcom teasing us about what could had been like a hot girl at the bar. Either way, let's shift the conversation to what kind of moveset Phoenix would have if he made it into a vs Capcom game, or if you're not a big player of the vs Capcom series, maybe a Smash Bros moveset.

With that said, here's a Smash Bros moveset I put together.

Introduction: Phoenix rides into the arena on his bicycle.

B: Objection! - Works as a counter attack, like Peach's Toad and Marth and Ike's counter. Phoenix stands his ground for a split second, and if he's attacked, he'll point out his finger and shout OBJECTION!, repeling the attack back at the enemy.

B + ->: Take That! - Phoenix reaches into his briefcase and pulls out a random piece of evidence, which he then chucks at the enemy. The damage and knockback depend on the item thrown, it can be light damage from a bloody button to critical smash damage from the Thinker Statue.

B + ^: Blue Badger Balloon - Phoenix floats into the air by the aide of a balloon shaped like the Blue Badger, damaging any enemies above him with the balloon's weird horns. Phoenix then slowly drifts down to the ground.

B + v: Hold It! - Phoenix thrusts out his finger of justice, halting an enemy close enough in his tracks. The time the enemy is stunned is based on it's damage %. Another Hold It! will send the enemy flying.

Final Smash: Magatama - Charged with spiritual energy, Phoenix holds out his magatama and a black field appears around him. Any enemies caught in it will be chained up with psychelocks all over them. Phoenix then zips over to each opponent and breaks each lock with evidence to find their weak point, then hits it for mega damage.

Taunt 1: A desk appears and Phoenix slams his hands down on it.

Taunt 2: Phoenix slouches down sweatdropping.

Taunt 3: Phoenix adjusts his tie.

Victory 1: Phoenix points out his finger and shouts "Not guilty!!"

Victory 2: Maya knocks over Phoenix and poses while sitting on top of him.

Victory 3: Phoenix pulls out a cup of Godot brand coffee and sips it proudly.


Oh, on a side topic, I recently poked my head into the Apollo Fantopic over at the GS4 forum to see what people like about him, and I saw an awful lot of Phoenix bashing. Apparently it's only okay if Apollo's not the one being bashed.

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About damn time theres a fanclub! I never even knew! May I join in?

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DarkWobbuffet, you just made my day. I've always wanted to see Nick in SSB. If not as a full character, at least as an Assist Trophy.

I remember the first time I thought about that... I fancied the idea of him giving an objection in the direction the character was facing when Nick is released from the Assist Trophy. Instant smash attack in a line towards that direction. Imagine the imbalance on Final Destination... XD

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Yaay, a Phoenix fanclub!
I think Phoenix is a strong number two to me after Miles, if not even share first place with him. <3

Who do you like best as a romantic interest for Phoenix, and why?

Miles. Makes sense to me. xD

Though I think Phoenix/Maya is really cute, I can't help but think that they only have a brother/sister kinda relationship. And I don't hate Phoenix/Iris, but it just didn't work for me...

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I vote Phoenix Edgeworth too, but I like Phoenix x Thalassa too. I use to be a Feeneris fan, but AJ screwed that up with AJ not acknowledging her existence. The whole court case left me bitter in the end wondering if Phoenix would ever hook up with a chick >.> Thalassa makes sense to me though.

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Reviving The Phoenix Fan club!!!!

Just a drawing by me to remember Phoenix throughout the years :)

Happy Holidays guys!

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Count me in!

I'm not trying to intervene but I'd like to throw my two cents regarding a few things mentioned in the heated discussions above. Don't mind me, guys! Just gotta get it off my chest.

I don't think Phoenix can really be considered as Apollo's mentor. He didn't do much teaching but gave advice. I see Phoenix as more of Apollo's employer. If you ask me, Trucy's actually more of a mentor... ^^U
I'd personally love to see Phoenix back in the courtroom. I think he really meant it when he said he'd take the bar exam again. I mean, law is his life and it never stopped even though he was disbarred. I'd also prefer to see him as the protagonist in GS5, too. When I think about it, Apollo's story has practically already been wrapped up in GS4. I'm sure every AA fan is wondering what happened to the rest of the PW crew, and that'd make good content for the new game. It could also be that it stars Apollo and Phoenix is co-counsel, though that'd make him like Mia (and I don't like her always being there to be depended upon). Or it could be that they both have their own cases, each to his own.

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True on that. Apollo doesn't even really take his advice seriously.



(No offense to the Apollo fans, but knowing where Phoenix got that tip from, I wanted to sock Apollo one for that. >>')



Amen brother... or sister... or... maybe... robot? ...maybe a ninja robot?

There's also quite a few references in 4-4's Mason system that show us Phoenix really misses his job, and hates his current one. People who try to say he should stay a pianist are the ones who are threatened that if Phoenix does become an attorney, that Apollo will be over-shadowed, which is a bit of a unreasonable fear. If anything, keeping Phoenix as a bum would only make him get in Apollo's spotlight moreso.



To be fair, his story wasn't really wrapped up, he just had no story whatsoever to go on. Hopefully if the writers have half a brain and want Apollo to remain the main protagonist they'll do some bloody work on his character in the sequel.



Hell yes. I'd love that. I'm actully hoping the next Ace Attorney Investigations game has you playing as Phoenix during his investigation about the 4-4 flashback trial, while you get to revist all the old cast, and of course Phoenix has to put his investigation on hold when a series of murders occurs through the seven years between that ill-fated case and 4-1. Then for the last case, which would take place after 4-4. Phoenix is about to retake his bar exam when another murder occurs that reveals the truth behind these killings. Maybe they could even throw in characters from AAI 1 to help, like Kay. ./'



I'd play that. I even read a fanfiction just like that. Despite having the totally "original" title of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, it's actully about Apollo and Phoenix as they take cases. The trials themselves could use more polish, but the characterization is deadon.

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Yeah... no offense to them, but I don't like it when Apollo talks/thinks about Phoenix the way he does, behind his back. Somehow, when he mentioned the Wright & Co. Offices as being popular, I got the impression he idolized Phoenix. But with the way he is... well... I'm pretty confused.

XD Sister. I'd rather have you call me Brother, though. ;)

I suppose. You're right; I wasn't fair about that. When I think about it, Phoenix didn't have much of a story until T&T. I guess we'll have to wait...

Mmm... Sounds awesome! I'd love to see Kay, too! :D
Edgey: Ha, Wright! I, too, have a legal aide of my own.
And then, maybe:
Phoenix: Well, Apollo, it seems you can't find a chink in that guy's armor, even with your bracelet. And I can't break those black locks with my magatama (Lord knows how long it's been since Pearls last charged it). I'll have to make a quick phone call... to Kurain Village.

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Sorry. ): I felt like I had to revive this thread because Feenie is my favorite Ace Attorney character forever! DDD8



UM, SO, GUYS. (I'm gonna try and start a discussion, hehe. ^_^;;)

Which version of Nick is your personal favorite? Nick as a lawyer? Nick as a college student? Nick as a hobo? Or maybe even Takarazuka Revue's rendition of Nick? Because I know I can't get ENOUGH of Takarazuka!Phoenix. :U He's just so earnest and cheesy... It's really adorable! <3

Personally, though, my favorite version of Phoenix is lawyer!Nick. :U He's really easy to relate to and I had a lot of fun digging deeper into his character. Oh, and he always manages to make me giggle with his sarcastic side comments. XD

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Last edited by Veritas on Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

XD What an adorable picture! I'd sure love him to do that in the next game. And thank you for reviving this thread! The Edgey fan base brings us to shame...

Personally, I love good old Lawyer Phoenix, the one that started it all, the one most of us embraced. Hobo Phoenix is interesting, too, considering how he's quite the antihero. But then, I prefer the altruism and silliness he had in his days as a lawyer.


Cool avatar, by the way. I can't seem to get enough of this emoticon...

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