Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I <3 Edgeworth wrote:
ff3girl wrote:
CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Assuming a relationship sparks between Phoenix and Edgeworth... it's not because Phoenix wants Edgey's cock or likes teh buttsex. It's not because Edgeworth is male. It'd be because Edgeworth is EDGEWORTH, and the physical aspect would be far secondary to the mental one.
I still disagree. I think in order for any kind of romantic relationship to develop, there would have to be physical attraction as well. True, this can't be the foundation of the relationship, but I believe it is necessary for a romantic relationship.
You actually believe that in order for a strong, emtional relationship to develop, physical attraction is needed? I'm afriad I have to disagree.
Yes, I thought somebody would disagree. I could tell as soon as I was typing it that somebody would object. But in a marital-type relationship, sorry to be blunt, but sex is necessary. I know I'm starting to get into a religious-type issue here, but bear with me.
When people have loving, selfless sex, a spiritual bond forms between the two, and the sexual bond in itself is a separate kind of communcation between lovers. This kind of communication is necessary to continue to build the relationship throughout the years. In order for sex to happen, what needs to be there? BINGO- physical attraction.
All I'm trying to say is, YES, a physical attraction is necessary in order for there to be a romantic relationship. You can have a crush on somebody for their personality (I've done that plenty of times) but liking somebody just for their personality, in my opinion is not enough to build a lasting romantic relationship.
Somebody else (I don't remember who--sorry!) made the point that it isn't necessarily a romantic relationship. I competely agree.
Whew! What a long post.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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But even despite all the logical arguments, the main reason I don't like them is just because it's not an interesting pairing. The hero paired with the 'villain' is the oldest pairing cliche so every fanfic about them feels exactly the same.
Edgeworth/Gumshoe on the other hand is a much more interesting pairing.
*Shameless OTP plug*
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
Yes, I thought somebody would disagree. I could tell as soon as I was typing it that somebody would object. But in a marital-type relationship, sorry to be blunt, but sex is necessary. I know I'm starting to get into a religious-type issue here, but bear with me.
When people have loving, selfless sex, a spiritual bond forms between the two, and the sexual bond in itself is a separate kind of communcation between lovers. This kind of communication is necessary to continue to build the relationship throughout the years. In order for sex to happen, what needs to be there? BINGO- physical attraction.
All I'm trying to say is, YES, a physical attraction is necessary in order for there to be a romantic relationship. You can have a crush on somebody for their personality (I've done that plenty of times) but liking somebody just for their personality, in my opinion is not enough to build a lasting romantic relationship.
Somebody else (I don't remember who--sorry!) made the point that it isn't necessarily a romantic relationship. I competely agree.
Whew! What a long post.
When people have loving, selfless sex, a spiritual bond forms between the two, and the sexual bond in itself is a separate kind of communcation between lovers. This kind of communication is necessary to continue to build the relationship throughout the years. In order for sex to happen, what needs to be there? BINGO- physical attraction.
All I'm trying to say is, YES, a physical attraction is necessary in order for there to be a romantic relationship. You can have a crush on somebody for their personality (I've done that plenty of times) but liking somebody just for their personality, in my opinion is not enough to build a lasting romantic relationship.
Somebody else (I don't remember who--sorry!) made the point that it isn't necessarily a romantic relationship. I competely agree.
Whew! What a long post.
And so the physical relationship can come later. That's just simple.
The point remains. You can be in love with and have a sexual relationship with a member of the same sex without being homosexual. Which is what Phoenix would be, since I agree he's mostly straight.
and... AUGH. They AREN'T RIVALS. Jesus people, pay attention to the games >_>
Yes, they're pitted against each other in court.
No, that does not make them rivals. The entire point of 2-4--why Edgeworth calls both Phoenix and Franziska 'partner' at different points--is that both prosecutor and defense have a crucial role in the courtroom. One tries with all their might to prove the defendant guilty, the other tries with all their might to prove the defendant innocent, and through their opposition they arrive at the truth. Phoenix and Edgeworth are partners, not rivals.
They haven't been rivals since the end of 1-3 when Edgeworth objects to keep Dee Vasquez on the stand.
See, it's not even my OTP by any means, but it's -hugely- different from "main character x rival" shipping. Phoenix/Edgeworth have a dynamic they spent three damn games establishing, and one of the most complex relationships in the series that goes FAR beyond "main character x 'villain' (which, uh, he's not >_>)".
And honestly, I can't do Edgeworth/Gumshoe. Because not only is Gumshoe/Maggey the sweetest thing possibly ever, but... Edgeworth controls his standard of living. Edgeworth controls his salary, Edgeworth controls his LIFE. Superior/Subordinate romance is "eeeeeh" enough on its own, but with those two in particular... yes, Gumshoe idolizes and cares hugely for Edgeworth, but it really doesn't work as a romantic relationship, IMO. This also applies to FranShoe.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Quote:
And so the physical relationship can come later. That's just simple.
Yes, but for a physical relatsionship to come, there is still a requirement for physical attraction.
Quote:
The point remains. You can be in love with and have a sexual relationship with a member of the same sex without being homosexual. Which is what Phoenix would be, since I agree he's mostly straight.
Um. <_< To me, that would be called either 'denial' or 'bisexual.'
Somehow I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this. ^_^;;
And although you think it means for some reason that I haven't played the games, I still think that they are rivals. Rivals can also be partners and best friends. If you're familiar with it, consider the dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke in the "Naruto" series (I know, I know, off topic.)
Actually wait, don't consider that, because then we'll start another whole argument! XD
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
And although you think it means for some reason that I haven't played the games, I still think that they are rivals. Rivals can also be partners and best friends. If you're familiar with it, consider the dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke in the "Naruto" series (I know, I know, off topic.)
Actually wait, don't consider that, because then we'll start another whole argument! XD
Actually wait, don't consider that, because then we'll start another whole argument! XD
Sasuke and Naruto still Fight each other for the sake of beating each other. After Edgeworth's epiphany (win records are not important, All that matters is the truth, etc.), neither him nor phoenix are going against one another to prove they are better then the other or for the sake of winning, which is what defines "rivals". They go against each other because ripping the other to shreds is the only way to discover the truth. Even though they seem to be fighting each other, they are doing it soley to reach a common goal. They don't wan't to "win", they want to find the truth. They are partners.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Quote:
Even though they seem to be fighting each other, they are doing it soley to reach a common goal. They don't wan't to "win", they want to find the truth. They are partners.
*sigh* Again, somehow I don't think we're going to come to agree on this issue. ^_^;; If you're convinced in your heart that they are not rivals I don't know what I can say to convince you.
In my mind, as much as they have the same ultimate goal, they are both fighting against each other in the courtroom. They are on opposite teams. They probably consider each other near-equals. In my mind, that defines a rival.
Sasuke and Naruto both want to beat each other; so do Edgeworth and Phoenix. Are they each doing it for the sole purpose of beating each other? No--there is a greater goal in mind. In Naruto, it's furthering yourself, in Phoenix Wright, it's finding the truth.
I brought up the Naruto/Sasuke concept because they're an example of rivals who are ALSO best friends. You actually can be both! :-)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ThePhantomOtaku wrote:
Sasuke and Naruto both want to beat each other; so do Edgeworth and Phoenix. Are they each doing it for the sole purpose of beating each other? No--there is a greater goal in mind. In Naruto, it's furthering yourself, in Phoenix Wright, it's finding the truth.
I brought up the Naruto/Sasuke concept because they're an example of rivals who are ALSO best friends. You actually can be both! :-)
I brought up the Naruto/Sasuke concept because they're an example of rivals who are ALSO best friends. You actually can be both! :-)
But Sasuke and Naruto are absolutely nothing like Edgeworth and Phoenix. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't "want to beat one another". They have no stake in beating one another. Edgeworth doesn't compare himself to Phoenix in the courtroom. Phoenix has never really compared himself to Edgeworth in the courtroom.
Naruto and Sasuke do have that comparison aspect. They are best friends, but they are also competitive with one another. Phoenix and Edgeworth's courtroom battles might be explosive, but I can't say it's because they're rivals--at least, not any more. Phoenix never defines Edgeworth as a rival. Edgeworth never defines Phoenix as a rival. But he does call him "partner".
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
I <3 Edgeworth wrote:
ff3girl wrote:
I still disagree. I think in order for any kind of romantic relationship to develop, there would have to be physical attraction as well. True, this can't be the foundation of the relationship, but I believe it is necessary for a romantic relationship.
You actually believe that in order for a strong, emtional relationship to develop, physical attraction is needed? I'm afriad I have to disagree.
Somebody else (I don't remember who--sorry!) made the point that it isn't necessarily a romantic relationship. I competely agree.
That would've been me. If you had read my whole post, I'm sure that you would see that we can indeed come to an understanding. Neither I nor CantFakeTheFunk said anything about a romantic relationship. Who says Edgeworth and Wright have to be romantic? At this point in time, I see them as more than friends, but their relationship isn't ever going to develop into something like that. As I said before, the English language lacks a word for their relationship. And since you still seem to see them as rivals, THEY'RE NOT. As many others have stated, they're PARTNERS. Two halves of the same coin, as was said.
Last edited by Clarissa Gavin on Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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musouka wrote:
But Sasuke and Naruto are absolutely nothing like Edgeworth and Phoenix. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't "want to beat one another". They have no stake in beating one another. Edgeworth doesn't compare himself to Phoenix in the courtroom. Phoenix has never really compared himself to Edgeworth in the courtroom.
Naruto and Sasuke do have that comparison aspect. They are best friends, but they are also competitive with one another. Phoenix and Edgeworth's courtroom battles might be explosive, but I can't say it's because they're rivals--at least, not any more. Phoenix never defines Edgeworth as a rival. Edgeworth never defines Phoenix as a rival. But he does call him "partner".
Naruto and Sasuke do have that comparison aspect. They are best friends, but they are also competitive with one another. Phoenix and Edgeworth's courtroom battles might be explosive, but I can't say it's because they're rivals--at least, not any more. Phoenix never defines Edgeworth as a rival. Edgeworth never defines Phoenix as a rival. But he does call him "partner".
I have no idea how you can put everything so eloquently Musouka, but as of this moment I idolize you. Debating is the third best in my life, although people often get mad at me for it. Writing fiction prose is the first, and hanging out with my friends is second. But debating has to be a very close third.
As you've stated many times now, Phoenix and Edgeworth arent's rivals. Allow me to elaborate on my opinion.
Neither Wright nor Edgeworth cares about who's better in a court of law. All they want to do is find the truth, no matter how bitter it is. And the only way the truth can be found in a court law is when there are two opposing forces, aka the prosecution and the defense. The reason both fight so hard in the courtroom is because it's their job.
Spoiler: 3-3
I believe that I can compare this instance to why Wright and Edgeworth fight so hard. And not only is it their job, the only way the truth can be found is for both sides to fight as hard as they can to defend the truth as they see it. Phoenix and Edgeworth fight for a common goal side-by-side, and that is the defintion of partners as I see it.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I don't require anyone else to think it does. Nor do I feel I really have to explain myself to those who don't. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they think does or doesn't work.
ETA: For the record, I do not do any of the following as a habit--
*instantly ship rivals/enemies/friends
*go bananas over every yaoi idea possible
*spend time looking for pairings in anime/manga/games/books/movies/etc
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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PoisonInkbottle wrote:
I don't require anyone else to think it does. Nor do I feel I really have to explain myself to those who don't. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they think does or doesn't work.
Thank you. This makes me feel a lot better about liking it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in whatever aspect of their life. As long as they don't try to force their opinion onto others. Now, I'm not saying a little friendly debate ain't fun now and again... Cause it is.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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They're just written like a classic shounen-ai couple... childhood friend moves away, other tries to keep in touch but fails, finally childhood friend comes back as a rival, but is saved and they're all buddy buddy afterwards. I think about half the manga and scanlations I've read involve this storyline in some form or other. It's not very original, but it's very popular, haha
Plus I'm sure gaygamer.net's article swayed a few people long ago (not that I should bring it up). Honestly though, I played the first game when it came out here in the US and thought "whoa... um.. wow.. those two have something going on there", so of course I went online and found my little clique of NaruMitsu fans. It wouldn't be so popular if there wasn't so much (I'm sure intended) teasing from the director and writers and such.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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And what would have happened in some other person broke Edgeworth's record? I don't think he would be as affected as when he was defeated by Phoenix.
I don't think about whether Edgeworth or Phoenix is gay because I never bothered thinking about those facts. I am not a fan of yaoi couples but the relationship between Edgeworth and Phoenix appealed to me. In fact, I have never supported a couple that was m/m until this one simply because nothing m/m appealed to me until this. I don't aim for canon couples or rivals or things like that. I support couples that I think can actually work and I think this does. I see how their friendship works in the games and I see possible romance that can work.
But people have different opinions, eh?
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Last edited by Dark Maylee on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I personally don't like to think on a 'it might be possible' or 'there might be something there' basis. It's either has a strong chance of happening, or it's not. I also don't like to fantasize much about characters not in my own control, and like to hear it officially. I can say Phoenix and Edgeworth is definitely not happening. That's why I'm not supporting this couple. Capcom has total control over these characters officially. No one is going to take the risk of getting the game banned in several countries and letting sales drop. As long as Capcom has official control of these characters, Phoenix and Edgeworth together, in a romantic relationship is never ever going to happen. Yes, people can have their fanfics and fanart, but that's as far it's going to go. The real relationship is never going to enter the games. There is no meaningful possibility. So I don't see the reason to support this couple. They will be nothing more than really good friends. That's the bottom line. A romantic relationship is never going to happen.
You can argue. You can even use that objection smiley. But you know it's really never going to happen officially. I've said it many times again and again to the point that it's probably annoying you right now. It's never going to happen.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
You can argue. You can even use that objection smiley. But you know it's really never going to happen officially. I've said it many times again and again to the point that it's probably annoying you right now. It's never going to happen.
But this isn't the "Phoenix and Edgeworth are totally going to happen in canon" thread. This is the thread for why you do or don't like them as a couple. I mean, from what you are saying, you don't like any Phoenix or Edgeworth pairing at all in the slightest? Since none of them are going to be canon.
It's not about figuring out what's going to happen, it's about the logic behind the couple. Does P/E have canon support? Yes, oodles of it. Is it canon? Nope, but that doesn't effect my love for it one whit.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
No one is going to take the risk of getting the game banned in several countries and letting sales drop.
Mind listing a few games that have gotten banned from countries in recent years for homosexual content? :/
I sincerely doubt they'd ban a game from a country just for that.
Anyway, Mu's right. This is about the pairing as discussed in fanon, not canon. No Phoenix or Edgeworth pairings are ever going to be canon, but that doesn't mean we can't like them. It's fine if you only like canon pairings, but in that case there's really no point in posting in threads about fanon pairings is there?
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
You can argue. You can even use that objection smiley. But you know it's really never going to happen officially. I've said it many times again and again to the point that it's probably annoying you right now. It's never going to happen.
And I personally don't give a s**t if it ever happens officially or not. I agree that it won't, because as much as I would like to think a world could exist where everyone could accept gay people, that's never gonna happen either. However, all I really care about is wether something exists or not. Or rather how likely it is that something exists. Sure, it doesn't exist officially in the games, but what are the chances that Capcom is going to shoot the pairing down? I don't think they'd ever do it. I, for one, believe that would cut sales also. There are many people that think this is a wonderful relationship, and if Capcom were to crush all their dreams there'd be some very angry and upset fans. So, is Edge/Wright ever going to happen officially? No, I don't think so. Is it ever going to go down in flames? Nope, don't think that either. Capcom will just have to stay neutral for now.
Edit:
Musouka, you rock. And you're totally right.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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SilverZephyr wrote:
chazooma wrote:
No one is going to take the risk of getting the game banned in several countries and letting sales drop.
Mind listing a few games that have gotten banned from countries in recent years for homosexual content? :/
I sincerely doubt they'd ban a game from a country just for that.
Anyway, Mu's right. This is about the pairing as discussed in fanon, not canon. No Phoenix or Edgeworth pairings are ever going to be canon, but that doesn't mean we can't like them. It's fine if you only like canon pairings, but in that case there's really no point in posting in threads about fanon pairings is there?
This thread is about why we support/ don't support this couple pairing and why. I just said why I don't.
http://fogu.com/hm/
It wasn't even straight out gay marriage and before it could be allowed to bring it out into the U.S., the creators were forced to edit out this ritual.
Edit: Never mind about that. I'm not sure if they edited it out or not. But I was sure there was some skirmish about it. I think people do overreact and ban games because of homosexuality.
If bigwigs were so open to gay couplings, wouldn't there be many of those being paired up by now? As in selling in the U.S.? I said that I, myself, don't see the point in supporting this couple. But no one (should) have a problem with others making fanfics, fanart, and having discussions to support this couple. I just stated why I didn't support this particular couple. Isn't that what this thread is about?
If the point of this thread is going to be rearranged, I'm just going to hop myself out.
Last edited by chazooma on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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musouka wrote:
No, there's nothing wrong with not liking them as a couple because they aren't going to be canon--even though the idea is really, really strange to me personally--it's just when you say things like "So I don't see the reason to support this couple"...well, people have been telling you why they support this couple. It just has nothing to do with them smooching onscreen.
I could say the same thing with the opposite side. I think it's strange why you say you see lots of reasons while other people have been telling you whey they don't support this couple. I think it has to do with everything onscreen officially.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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chazooma wrote:
musouka wrote:
No, there's nothing wrong with not liking them as a couple because they aren't going to be canon--even though the idea is really, really strange to me personally--it's just when you say things like "So I don't see the reason to support this couple"...well, people have been telling you why they support this couple. It just has nothing to do with them smooching onscreen.
I could say the same thing with the opposite side. I think it's strange why you say you see lots of reasons while other people have been telling you whey they don't support this couple. I think it has to do with everything onscreen officially.
Sorry to butt in, but I just have to say something.
You think the only reason people support this couple this pairing is because they want it to become canon and see Edgey and Phoenix become official? I don't think so. If you look at everything on this thread, you'll see there's at least one other person, excluding me, who doesn't care if it becomes canon.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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I <3 Edgeworth wrote:
chazooma wrote:
musouka wrote:
No, there's nothing wrong with not liking them as a couple because they aren't going to be canon--even though the idea is really, really strange to me personally--it's just when you say things like "So I don't see the reason to support this couple"...well, people have been telling you why they support this couple. It just has nothing to do with them smooching onscreen.
I could say the same thing with the opposite side. I think it's strange why you say you see lots of reasons while other people have been telling you whey they don't support this couple. I think it has to do with everything onscreen officially.
Sorry to butt in, but I just have to say something.
You think the only reason people support this couple this pairing is because they want it to become canon and see Edgey and Phoenix become official? I don't think so. If you look at everything on this thread, you'll see there's at least one other person, excluding me, who doesn't care if it becomes canon.
No, I never said that. People support things because it looks right to them. To me, it doesn't. I know you know it's never going to be canon. Quite simple really.
It's been a long time since I've had such a good debate as this.
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chazooma wrote:
I <3 Edgeworth wrote:
Sorry to butt in, but I just have to say something.
You think the only reason people support this couple this pairing is because they want it to become canon and see Edgey and Phoenix become official? I don't think so. If you look at everything on this thread, you'll see there's at least one other person, excluding me, who doesn't care if it becomes canon.
You think the only reason people support this couple this pairing is because they want it to become canon and see Edgey and Phoenix become official? I don't think so. If you look at everything on this thread, you'll see there's at least one other person, excluding me, who doesn't care if it becomes canon.
No, I never said that. People support things because it looks right to them. To me, it doesn't. I know you know it's never going to be canon. Quite simple really.
It's been a long time since I've had such a good debate as this.
Oh, sorry. I though that was kinda what you meant, and I was wrong. A simple misunderstanding, you see.
This is the first actual debate that I'm having fun in that hasn't resulted in me turning to all my dirty, nasty, tricks. Not that I've ever used any of these tricks on the net, but they're quite common at home.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
Edit: Never mind about that. I'm not sure if they edited it out or not. But I was sure there was some skirmish about it. I think people do overreact and ban games because of homosexuality.
Just to clear this up: Several fan's believed the "best friend" system was the reason the game took so long to be translated, but there was never an official source stating it was being taken out or was even an issue. It's more likely the game took so long because the original boy version did not sell well in the US due to being glitch-tastic.
I've heard of people making a fuss, but I'v never heard of a game actually being banned for being "gay". Do you know of any? (I'm not being condescending, I'm genuinely curious.)
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Busterella: No, but if they're going to squirm over a friendship ritual, I wonder what happens if they're faced with a game with real gay marriage and homosexuality. In fact, I wonder if such a game was ever made because of the risky chance of sales not being profitable. (tried checking Wikipedia, but the list is incomplete) I mean, Harry Potter books were banned in many countries because it has magic in it. People overreact all the time. Who knows until it's released if it's been taken out or not. If bigwigs were so open about it, as well as the audience, the people who buy the games, there would be more gay couples. (In HMDS, I always took the billion money glitch to my advantage, hahah...)
People seem to hit harder on video games than books and other things, for who knows why.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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EDIT: I'm not trying to say PxE will ever be canon or anything, I think everyone's in agreement on that. I'm just saying If such a situation did ever arise I don't think it would be any worse then the "OMG videogames are full of violence!" or "OMG video games are full of (het) sex!" crusades.
Last edited by Busterella on Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I think if they banned games with homosexual content for that reason, then we are truly a world lacking tolerance >.>
I doubt it'd ever be canon, but no relationship with Phoenix currently is (Currently).
So Nicky boy is fair game for whatever pairing we put him in. That's how I look at it. The games have never stated that Phoenix ever had a relationship with anyone, save Dahlia, but that's in the past. I don't believe any pairing is truly canon besides RonDessie. As much as I love my PW OTPS (Including Phoedgeworth), I cannot say they're canon.
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I luff this thread.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.
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ff3girl wrote:
When people have loving, selfless sex, a spiritual bond forms between the two, and the sexual bond in itself is a separate kind of communcation between lovers. This kind of communication is necessary to continue to build the relationship throughout the years. In order for sex to happen, what needs to be there? BINGO- physical attraction.
And you know this because you yourself are in your forties (or at least thirties) having experienced a long period of loving, selfless sex in a marital situation, I presume? I would apprecite you clarifying that you speak from experience on the subject of long relationships, selfless sex and spritual bonds if that's okay.
"Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good". - Thomas Paine
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.
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PoisonInkbottle wrote:
I ship it simply because it makes sense to me. There's really no other way for me to put it; it occurred to me out of the blue and it wasn't until many weeks full of hard thought later that I figured out why. And I could go over those things, but I might as well just point everyone to the main Edgeworth or Nick or pairing debate threads and say that explains part of it.
I don't require anyone else to think it does. Nor do I feel I really have to explain myself to those who don't. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they think does or doesn't work.
ETA: For the record, I do not do any of the following as a habit--
*instantly ship rivals/enemies/friends
*go bananas over every yaoi idea possible
*spend time looking for pairings in anime/manga/games/books/movies/etc
I don't require anyone else to think it does. Nor do I feel I really have to explain myself to those who don't. Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they think does or doesn't work.
ETA: For the record, I do not do any of the following as a habit--
*instantly ship rivals/enemies/friends
*go bananas over every yaoi idea possible
*spend time looking for pairings in anime/manga/games/books/movies/etc
And you know I'm right there with you, baby. Hell I'm not even in any other fandom and I'd be hard pressed to name an anime or manga except maybe Lone Wolf and Cub and, uh, Banana Fish. Games? Ha ha! I play Silent Hill and SSX. Ha ha!
"Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good". - Thomas Paine
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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In KotOR/2 and Mass Effect, if you be a female character, you can have another female as love interest. In Jade Empire, in addition to that you can have a male love interest as a male. You can have gay and lesbian couples in the Sims.
I think it's safe to say that homosexuality, while a controversial topic, won't get games banned in the states.
(For what it's worth, I believe that Edgeworth is in love with Phoenix in canon due to 3-5, though that is admittedly only my interpretation--however strong and supported that interpretation might be--of certain lines.)
But you're right, it isn't going to be canon--but why the hell should that matter?
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
I'm just awesomely random like that
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I still don't see them as a couple (even though you people on here are really articulate and make excellent points). I think both of them are really good friends in a relationship that's very hard to break. I think this comes from the fact that Edgey (as far as I know) has never had a real, true friend before. He pushes people away. I don't know if this comes from his attempt to punish himself for the death of his father (he believed he had killed his own father until 1-4) or it may have come from some sort of self sacrifice kind of deal, like "If I stay away from others, I won't have the chance to hurt them" thing. ...
I'm not very good with words, am I? XD
Anyway!
Phoenix, on the other hand, is a really likable kind of person. He seems to get along with people like any other normal person would. So why is he so intent on keeping his relationship with Edgey? I think it's because Phoenix knows Edgeworth needs him. Phoenix began building up that bond of friendship with each little encounter he had with him based on the emotions Edgey was showing or attempting to hide. The bond grew to being almost unbreakable when Edgeworth trusted his life to Phoenix in 1-4 and Phoenix in turn trusted him more because of that (a large "Trust Cycle" if you will XD).
In JFA, Edgey left without a word. I've had friends do this to me before. Lemme tell ya, it hurt. It still does. Not even a quick call from her cell phone while she was one the road. I can imagine Pheenie must have felt worse. It's no wonder he'd be pissed at Edgey. After having literally saved his life, Edgeworth disappears. I'm not sure if I'd be strong enough to forgive a friend after an emotional wound like that ... but I know Phoenix is. Once again, the Trust Cycle is in motion.
Of course there's love there, I've admitted to this, but like other people on this board have stated, I highly doubt it's a romantic love.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
I'll ship who I want to :D
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Metal Gear solid series, wasn't one of the characters recently declared canon gay? besides Raikov? Or wait, it was Vamp who was declared officially bisexual. Honestly I haven't played the games, just watched others play them.. and I've yet to play the fourth game, as I don't exactly plan to get a ps3 anytime soon.
Then there's Bully. You can kiss male characters in it if you so choose
There's pleeeennnty of gay characters in video games, that are official, and even more that are VERY VERY hinted without being outright said.
/edit- Nintendo's version of Sims 2 took out the ability to have homosexual relationships in it.. the computer version though, you can do it ALL.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Actually, it reminds me greatly of something I once read in philosophy class. This is an excerpt from Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics:
Spoiler: to save space
To summarize, Aristotle said that the most perfect and true kind of friendship is one in which two people care for each other unconditionally, simply because they are who they are. They each set their own desires aside if the other is in need, and because of this they balance each other and help each other grow as people. This kind of relationship can only happen when the two completely trust and, yes, love each other (but it's not meant to imply a sexual love). And this is exactly what they have.
You can read the Nichomachean Ethics here: http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.html The excerpt is from book 8, part 3.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
...experience the joy each day can bring
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KingMobUK wrote:
ff3girl wrote:
When people have loving, selfless sex, a spiritual bond forms between the two, and the sexual bond in itself is a separate kind of communcation between lovers. This kind of communication is necessary to continue to build the relationship throughout the years. In order for sex to happen, what needs to be there? BINGO- physical attraction.
And you know this because you yourself are in your forties (or at least thirties) having experienced a long period of loving, selfless sex in a marital situation, I presume? I would apprecite you clarifying that you speak from experience on the subject of long relationships, selfless sex and spritual bonds if that's okay.
Actually that is not a single bit your business and I consider this to be EXTREMELY rude. I cannot believe how angry you have just made me. As I stated earlier in my posts, this was stepping into religious beliefs about what I have learned and believe and what I believe about love and marriage. How incredibly crude, horrible, and insensitive of you. I'm ready to step out of this conversation now.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.
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I hardly think so.
That's like saying it would be crude and insensitive to ask someone if they had studied history at all if they tuirned up at your school and started teaching a class.
"Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good". - Thomas Paine
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
Actually that is not a single bit your business and I consider this to be EXTREMELY rude. I cannot believe how angry you have just made me. As I stated earlier in my posts, this was stepping into religious beliefs about what I have learned and believe and what I believe about love and marriage. How incredibly crude, horrible, and insensitive of you. I'm ready to step out of this conversation now.
WAAAAAAH
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