i LOVE this pairing sooo much i have ritten tunabout me to becuse i love it so much there so cute together!!!!!! would love it if she saw this =]

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Welcome!

You have given me this image of a room filled with many Pearls all creating Phoenix/Maya fanstuff. XD

Yes, and this is Phoenix's extra-dimensional mentor power, akin to Mia and her dead person spirit powers. Her knows he's trapped in a computer game, and within his limitations manipulates things and MASON systems accordingly. Apollo is clueless. No wonder Phoenix has no respect for the 'court' and then 'jurist system'! And he's figured out he was sent into an unwinnable 'trial' simulation!
But the GS3 world is 'real' Maybe.
Eventually, Maya amasses the required spirit power to channel Ami Fey and rescue him by stabbing 'reality' with the Shichishito. (Since Phoenix is the only one stuck in the actual AJ 'game'. Maybe a DVD can reach through the electronic ether? ) They revert to the end of 3-5 and their post 3-5 selves [before Phoenix followed the Red Rabbit to the FlashBack Trial]. But they remember everything which happened to them in the 7+ years of other reality, which of course includes all our P/M fanfics. Then the cross that bridge in GK and live happily ever after. The end, in this timeline anyway.


The fact that the whole Phoenix/MASON was so surreal and ambiguous means we CAN come up with crack fanficish plots like this. I mean, he IS stuck in a viedogame when demanded for inclusion :)
Oh, and the fact Phoenix can travel around the actual game scenes where Apollo can't see in the game too? He learned to WALK back in 2019 and Apollo Never did

Apparantly Takumi sees Ghost Trick as set in the GS Universe. I wonder if we'll get any further insights into the whole ghosts/Mia/spirit channelling thing which can be seen to apply to the main PW games? (Ignoring game mechanics of convenience of course - Mia clearly was unable to haunt objects and beat up Redd White with them or whatever the ghost did in that demo movie...)


Well like any other fanlisting/club/whatever it's not like it gets blanket promotion, so I'm sure there are P/M fans who simply don't know about it. Or don't use Facebook..

A Rival appears! Always interesting.
Oh yeah, I shouldn't dredge up P/I again, but it's worth mentioning it's a VERY common device to bring in a 'rival' candidate when the main protagonist partners have been ambiguously together for a long time, for the 'test' before the resolution of the main partners' happy sunset end. At least, I've certainly read it before.

Yeah, the songs I can readily associate with 90% of Hobo/Maya fanfic are.. hmm
permanently burned in my brain :/
As for Lawyer!/Maya, only the ones I mentioned earlier in this thread.


Welcome to the club...

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lol crack theories are always fun =D

Did the 7 years actually lapse while Phoenix is stuck in this game world, or is that all in his mind (in the game), while his body is lying somewhere in post-3-5 world unconscious for like a month or something? XD

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I think he's 'in' AJ-era reality. Alternate timelines
The game is full of them. 2-4 and 4-4 spring to mind, but there's all the different times you make a different choice in the games... [and all our fanfics]
The Shichishito could allow travel between them, when we give it enough imaginary spiritual powers:
"Shichishito". The treasured
Kurain Village heirloom whose
name means "7 Branched Sword".

It is said that this sacred
sword represents life itself.

Though the branches may
appear to be infinite, the
choices limitless...

...like our destinies, the
sword comes to but one end.
One merciless point.

And when the silver cord, the
fragile thread that binds us
to this world, is severed...

...the illusion is revealed
and the implacability of fate
is finally laid bare...
[...]* Gumshoe:
* This sword represents the
* multiple branches that life
* can take, all ending as one.
*
* Edgeworth:
* Hmm...
* I've never heard that one.
*
* Gumshoe:
* You know what I think
* about sometimes?
*
* Gumshoe:
* What kind of life would I have
* had if I hadn't joined the
* Homicide Division.
*
* Edgeworth:
* ...So you think about
* that kind of thing too, huh?
*
* Gumshoe:
* Of course I do.
* I think about it a lot.
*
* Gumshoe:
* Me as a traffic cop.
* Me as a detention officer.
* Me as the Blue Badger...
*

'What kind of life would Phoenix have had if' he hadn't followed the lure to the sinister Flashback Trial?

Maya is HOPEFULLY in the timeline [since all our fanfics 'occurred'] but she is clearly not trapped in the actual 'AJ Game'. It's unclear if Phoenix is trapped in it permanently by something pre- 4-1, or if he can exit to his 'secret missions' outside Apollo's comprehensible reality outside the actual 'AJ Game' itself, like Mia could go to the 'spirit world', and sees it's the only mechanism to redeem his fate/control the continued slander of his persona, maybe, in fact an opportunity to do so. So he manipulates the players etc.

The fact we CAN come up with crack theories like this is testament to the fact they didn't try to have actual continuity to GS3 plot/characterisation, and that unlike Mia and Maya's powers, which get explained in the pseudoscience framework of 'spirit channelling, ghosts', there's no explanation of Phoenix's magic hobo powers like the MASON System or getting to do the jurist thing even though he's a disgraced hobo. Sort of like if Maya changed into Mia every so often, and it wasn't explained WHY, so we'd come up with our own 'explanations' [or just be unable to suspend our disbelief.] And all the obvious 4th-wall breaking in the game.

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If it is a divergent parallel universe, then when he breaks out of it, doesn't he have to travel back in time to meet up with 3-5 timeline?

I see it as AJ is all part of his dream, an illusion so to speak, which is why he has such manipulative powers, because he actually created that universe, 'cept, he's trapped in it (maybe without even knowing). In essence, he's in a coma, dreaming of the AJ universe, while the "real world" goes on, but perhaps not 7 years have passed. The Maya in the AJ world that exists in fanfics is created by Nick's dream, just like the rest of the characters (including Hobo) XD

But actually, the MASON system doesn't bother me that much now, nor does the 4th wall-breaking (I'm assuming you mean when he talks to the "player" and narrates his story to us?), because we're playing as a Juror (like Lamiroir) investigating the case.

As for why a Hobo gets to set up the Jurist system, I hold to my theory of "Edgeworth (or some other friend of his, like Lana, Franziska, or even Maya) helped pull the strings"

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I've always thought this as well, mainly due to it being the only thing that makes any bloody sense. Of course a large majority of the AJ try to deny it since they want the old cast as separate from that game as Tiger Woods is from common decency.

Speaking of the topic at hand, I recently read a fanfic called Turnabout Rewritten, which depicts a different way of how the infamous 4-4 flashback trial ended. The writer was incredibly clever at it, even having Phoenix pull a trick similar who how he beat Damon Gant, and it even woke me up to just how badly written the murder case itself was.

Trucy: *jumps on Phoenix's back* Yay, I get to hang out with Mr. Wright! *puts her top hat on his head*
Phoenix: (Yay, I get to babysit while I investigate a MURDER.)

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Ooooh do you have the link to that fic?

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Well yeah, that's the straightforward, logical answer, which just shows how desperate they were to make it 'ambiguous' in connection to GS3 et al - think how easy it would have been to hint as an Easter Egg! But instead there's no concrete evidence Edgeworth even still exists :/ In a reasonable fanficcish narrative that connects GS3 to GS4, that's clearly what happened - Edgeworth and maybe Maya helped him get the job.

Back to 'alternate interpretations we can invent precisely because the game is so surreal and ambiguous'


The part at the end, where 'we' are Thalassa, is clearly different from the earlier MASON sequence and beginning address form Phoenix at the start of 4-4 after the 'boot up screen'. The Matrix-style binary is present on those times; at the end here it's gone and background is just black. That part Phoenix is addressing the actual in-world jury, including Thalassa, who we are now roleplaying as, but before that scene, we're not, and I don't think he's addressing the in-world jury but the actual player, who is only a 'jurist' in the sense they're mentally judging Phoenix's 'case'.

Everything which happens in the MASON and Flashback Trial is clearly undefined in terms of exact correlation with literal reality [Unless it is Phoenix's literally reality, which invokes the crack 'video game' reading also] In other words, they made a VERY strange game,particularly in terms of Phoenix.


A 7 year coma is almost, no MORE depressing than AJ itself, so maybe the coma is for the duration of the actual AJ GAME. ooh, good idea... needs a fanfic.

Spirits are clearly in another dimension, one which is 'eternal' probably, and if time is the 4th dimension... But I told you. It's literally a videogame. Phoenix's universe is clearly not the same as ours in any incarnation with all the ghosts and things. In a more general sense, it's a sequence of narratives, even with alt. bad ends and multiple choice and all. PW1-3 didn't break 4th wall ambiguity on this but MASON does. In the MASON System he 'time travels' anyway [which helps to prove it's of questionable literality.]

I maintain the game clearly wasn't 'AJ1' to Phoenix's 'PW1'. I think we all know GS4 was really 'about' Phoenix, and viewing him from other, more hostile external perspectives rather than the bias of his own head, to play jurist, I guess. With some FILLER cases, which might be about playing as Apollo.of course, it's the fact that practically every single thing about the game is questionably ambiguous that makes it so CONTROVERSIAL.
Like a bizzare controversial art installation, deconstructing GS1. It's very interesting, but I wish they'd had more time on it - and explanation.

I've read Takumi really only invents/ed the overall plots and it's the character designers who are really responsible for the actual characterisation issues/details of the chars, and I guess this shows up in this game too?

So I finished GS3 about a week before AJ release, so I was better able to appreciate the, um, contrast. Well, when I PLAYED, I was thinking 'this is surreal' 'this is clearly the sequel to 1-5, NOT GS3' 'It's like Phoenix and Ema were snatched out of 1-5, aged up '7' years, and suddenly thrust into the Gs4 Game World. The fact Ema only just had come back to see Phoenix's new situation [she doesn't even know Trucy on sight, though Phoenix and Ema were clearly friends with the hobo badge and all] and was so disillusioned just continued the illusion. I say it's all an ironic reboot of GS1 and a 1-5 sequel. Takumi himself conceived it as a 'different story' as he clearly states.

The we get the MASON sequence and oh, man... A boot up screen, [BEFORE the flashback trial or anything] Matrix-style BACKGROUNDS of surreality, time travel, the unwinnable trial sim with Phoenix with his GBA-era relic sprite glaringly conspicuous..

"Think of it," says Phoenix [and I think he's addressing the player here], "as a 'game'."
Oh Phoenix, you've made an ironic sort of JOKE, haven't you. In the style the forged ace is an ironic type of 'joke' - symbolic premonitioning of the 'flashback trial'.

I played with an open mind [I'd heard complaints the game was bad and Phoenix's char was 'ruined' or even 'unrecognisable', but I didn't believe any of them] Phoenix's hobo appearances just make me like his char MORE.
They exploited our emotional attachment to Phoenix to ensure game sales.
I think this backfired in the long term, though.... I'm betting if Phoenix had a small, lawerly cameo in AJ more continuous with GS3 maybe Apollo thwarts Kristoph's plot BEFORE or just after?] there'd probably be a successful AJ trilogy by now, which we'd all have played even if it didn't match the standard of the PW trilogy. As it is, there's 'issues' with how 'AJ2' could be written which I don't think they WANT to confront given the time passed, and I point to GK and Ghost Trick to support this.


http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5768911/1/T ... _Rewritten
I haven't read it yet, but it sounds interesting.

Oh yeah, read my fanfic! Have you tried writing an actual murder trial before? Actually, there's some serious P/M undertones in this chapter. *cough cough cough*

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I was thinking he was only in a coma for a few weeks or months while he dreams of his 7-year-later self XD


I pretty much thought AJ was more about Phoenix than Apollo too. The fact that we had more of Phoenix's backstory than Apollo's points to that. And as such, I never really warmed up to Apollo, his character just felt flat.

Anyway, about the post 1-5, I actually read this theory about AJ being a divergent universe following 1-5, where JFA and T&T didn't happen, it had proof and everything XD

When I played (which was right after T&T), I think maybe I was too busy swooning and melting over HoboNick's newfound smile and shiny sprite, and his laid-back personality to care XD I did feel very heartbroken playing 4-4 though, and yes, AJ HoboNick made me like Nick more. I didn't think really think too much about the disjointed-ness, the only thing I wondered about Nick's missing friends, which I guess can be explained without being explicitly stated.

And I agree, they kinda wrote themselves into a corner with AJ. Now that Nick's name has been cleared, would they include him again? If they do, what role would he play so that he won't steal Apollo's spotlight? And Apollo himself is pretty weak, which would give more room for them to develop his character, but because he was so flat, people didn't feel an attachment to him. I don't really know why they didn't just give Nick a supporting role in AJ without it focusing on him... maybe they needed a reason for him not to practice law so Apollo can step in?

I see AJ more as a transition game, where the baton is passed from Phoenix to Apollo.

--------

On the whole MASON system, it's been a month and half since I played, so I don't remember too clearly, but I think even at the beginning, you are role-playing as the jury to "investigate" Phoenix's last trial, which Phoenix put together with his 7-years of investigation (recorded through his beanie cam, or somehow recreated). Because the investigate answered questions regarding Vera's trial as well, such as the forgery, the poisoned nail polish, and Kristoph's connection to it all, so that the jury would have a better understanding and help with the final judgement of the "jury".

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Orrrrr....maybe this all happened DURING 3-5, while Phoenix was lying on the bank of Eagle River / in transport to the hospital / etc.!
Warning, the following is pure crack:
He's walking the line between life and death. In his coma, He dreams. In his dream, he doesn't even know who Maya is to begin with, and goes through that trial and gets disbarred:

He realizes that he's trapped in a nightmare after he realizes that he still has the MAGATAMA. SUDDENLY, everything comes back to him, and he realizes where he is, all thanks to Maya's gift! The "nightmare" trial is over, but he's still stuck in the new "nightmare" of the hobo-coma. It would be easy for him to give up and walk away, ie. let death (KRISTOPH THE ANGEL OR DEVIL) take him. But remember, he's run-across-bridge dedicated to Maya and knows that he's "the only one who can do this, probably", and he NEEDS to know that Maya is safe. The MASON system is an attempt to escape the dream. In the bad ending, Phoenix dies along with Vera, and the verdict gets postponed "for eternity" ie. Phoenix never gets to find out what happened to Maya. However, in the good ending, Phoenix has beaten Kristoph aka "death" and wakes up from his coma in the hospital. NOW he realizes exactly how much Maya means to him (like, more than he had before), and this only motivates him even further to ensure that she's safe (and makes moments like his "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" even more emotional).


Apollo's character is definitely flat. What is he without Phoenix? They even had to forcibly tie Phoenix to him by making Trucy his legal assistant.


Actually...I thought icer came up with that theory, unless she got it from somewhere else? XD


I knew that Nick was gonna be disbarred in AJ before I started T&T, and I was like relatively ok with the idea. But going through T&T made me progressively more opposed to the idea of his disbarring (I mean, they throw away everything that he had gained, just like that). The same thing happened with the missing characters. Prior to T&T I was disappointed, but not upset, that only Nick was returning for AJ, but by the time I played AJ, and especially during 4-4, I couldn't believe that Nick's friends weren't featured in the game.

^ haha, that theory is awesome! esp since Kristoph represents the Devil >D


Oh yeah, you're right XD I found the link from Google like right after I finished playing AJ XD


I stayed away from all spoilers (Wikipedia, Youtube, even C-R) before I finished all of the games, so I had no idea that Nick was even gonna be in AJ, so I guess I was pleasantly surprised? The only thing I knew about AJ before playing was that the main character is named Apollo and I've seen his designs.

Here's what happened:
- Apollo meets his client. "okay, it's so hobo dude, he's looking at me with a smirk, what's up with that bright blue hat? I wonder what his story is all about."
- "Hi I'm your client, Phoenix Wright."
- Me: eeeehhhhhhhhh THAT'S PHOENIX WRIGHT?!?!?! O____o What happened to you??? ;___;
- a few moments later... "OMG he's smiling.... *melts* and why is he so much hotter now that he dresses like a hobo? >__< "

So I loved 4-4 despite all of the strangeness because my burning question from the start has been answered. Though my heart was literally breaking as I played through his last trial and the aftermath >__< (and that song, Reminisce, Forgotten Legend, my heart breaks whenever I hear that song).... The only thing I was dissatisfied with was his missing friends. All throughout AJ I was hoping Maya would show up and go "Hey Trucy, let's do a Steel Samurai marathon tonight!" and Apollo meeting Maya and roll his eyes at her =( But I guess since we don't really see much of Phoenix's life, I didn't find it too strange Apollo didn't get to meet her.

But then the flashback trial, not only is Maya not present, she wasn't mentioned at all afterwards. It really irked me, because 1) I really wanted to see her reaction to everything, and him adopting Trucy and 2) It makes no logical sense for Maya not being there. Edgeworth I can understand, if he's overseas, but Maya has always been with him....

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Well,I don't know who first came up with that idea, but it's a natural assumption since AJ is so clearly the sequel to Matsukawa's baby 1-5, and so glaringly discontinuous with GS3. The first 'theory' I know of was by Davo00 on here. As you can see I built on this idea significantly. Of course, Matsukawa directed 1-5 and AJ, Inaba directed the original PW1-3, and Eshiro directed GK...

BTW I mainly wrote that to prove a point. I've invested far more time and effort in my Partners in GS3 'theory' My stance here is that the discontinuity and ambiguity in GS4 is enough that it *could* be interpreted as an alt timeline. And they could resolve the GS3->GS4 discontinuity in future games if they wanted, but most fan controversy is over to what extent the discontinuity is a problem and whether is should be rectified or not and to what extent, um

Anyway, nothing in GK contradicted the theory, either. Though I would have preferred it if they'd instead shown Maya and Edgeworth helping Phoenix out over Black April.
From a characterisation/narrative perspective, the split incident is the end of 1-4.
your presentation to Maya at the end of 1-4 of the bullet - if you get it right, she desperately wants to see you in 2-2, if you show her something else, she still returns as assistant [and gives you a magatama sometime], but the whole 2-2 doesn't proceed exactly the same way. Since the successful bullet is important for the Phoenix-Maya characterisation it does make sense, though not so much from the writer's intentional perspective. But both 'scenarios' are there in that game. [Also in GS2 Edgeworth watches 2-2 from afar and is impressed, leading to his involvement in 2-3 and return in 2-4, maybe that happened differently in the AU?]. Some variation on 2-1 and 2-3 still occur in the GS4 timeline, since it's not like 2-2 had any effect on those cases and their murders.

We've invented a new crack term!

You too? I did enjoy 4-1. I'd spoiled myself on certain key info beforehand -everyone knew the spoiler he was 'disbarred for presenting forged evidence' but I of course refuse to believe he did it and assumed he was set up. So I researched that yes this was correct, and who did it so I knew where to direct my hatred. And that he would get his name cleared by the game, because otherwise I probably couldn't have played... I knew about the hobo deal before I even played game 1, I think, certainly before GS2.

So I spent a lot of time in 4-1 just staring at his sprite, particularly the co-council one. I, um, didn't care he forged the card. It was clear it was symbolic premonitioning of 4-4's 'incident' the shock the player anyway...

*stares*
*stares more*
[People can be attracted to a bunch of PIXELS? Interesting...]
Phoenix, I love you!
...I will save you from this farce of injustice!

Of course, I did replay the game again right after to TRY to concentrate on Apollo this time. I replayed 4-1 at least 6 times, maybe more for fanfic purposes. I'm never playing the 'flashback trial' again now, I refuse. Not the part where you present the 'evidence' anyway.

I hate how they force him to wear that hat the whole time - I KNEW instantly it was forcing him to cover his lost identity, symbolically, with covering his hair and eyebrows -he was so attached to his hair. And the artbook confirmed that this was indeed the design reason.


Tying Phoenix to the new cast in general was poorly executed. I really felt like they forced in an artificial bond even with making him adopt Trucy. In all honesty, it's not a logical step I'd see from Phoenix's PW1-3 char in that particular situation, but an act of cast connection convenience, as is Trucy's entire existence, really.

In the 'videogame' fanfic idea? Maybe Kristoph's Devil Mark is a sign of the higher powers given to him by the gods Capcom/writers to wreak havoc.

Where did Apollo come from? From a narrative standpoint, I decided it made most contextual, symbolic and emotive sense to be Gant's kid, first time I played, I'm surprise this WASN'T revealed/used actually. But from what's actually shown in the games, I'm going for the 'explanation' given in the TGS special court case -he was spontaneously generated at age 21, then spent the rest of remaining time in the Capcom storage closet.

I admit the AJ game particularly felt like peering through the DS into a portal/window on the GS Universe, which in GS4 really did seem like a literal 'videogame' with the surreality. Uh, maybe this seems like crazy, 'outside the box' thinking, but it's been done a lot in various mildly sci-fi books/games/whatever. I believe the inventor of this type of concept was the classic book 'Flatland', which depicts a 2D-world amidst a 3D world (3d chars would appear like gods with their inexplicable 3rd dimensional powers, when a 2D char attempts to explain the 3D reality, he's accused of heresy/insanity, et al..)

Look, we're right off topic. Oh that artist made a diff.version of that nice pic

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^ after reading that theory, I kinda wonder if GS4 could be a alternate timeline sequel to 2-4 Bad-end. It's probably not intentional, but a lot of things can be explained as such.

For example:
- Magatama would be given to Nick by Maya by 2-2
- Edgeworth left and never want to talk to Nick again because he didn't get the truth
- Nick never saw Maya again. The "kid" he mentioned in AJ could be Pearl, who he might still keep minimal contact with.
- He still hypothetically acted as a defense attorney for one more year after 2-4 before that flashback trial

And I approve of Apollo being Gant's kid, if for crack more than anything else XD


The whole adoption scene I found strange. Particularly with how fast it went. Phoenix isn't bad with kids, but the adoption went like "so, wanna come and live with me for a while?" "okay Daddy!" I don't know if PW1-3 Phoenix would just adopt a random kid like that. But then again, Trucy has nowhere else to go ('cept maybe an orphanage or something), and maybe Phoenix didn't want to leave her behind/felt sorry for him, so took it upon himself to adopt Trucy.

Trucy's adoption aside, I think the whole "friendship with Kristoph" thing a bit contrived as well. It's kinda important to the plot of AJ, but I found it really random at first.

With GK, I think they did put in Easter Eggs to connect to AJ, like the Gavinner's stage and the Gramayre Troupe props. But they're just Easter Eggs.

Waaah that picture is so cute ^^ I like how Nick looks so surprised XD

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In addition, who would have a better connection to his disbarring than someone who was actually involved in the case? Well...Kristoph...but he doesn't count for obvious reasons.
This also gives me an opportunity to bring up one of my favorite quotes:

Ctrl+F shows that this is the only time the name "Nick" appears in GS4. Only 3 people (to my knowledge) in the PW series call Phoenix "Nick". And, given the context, he's clearly reminiscing over the time when a certain "special someone" came into his life.


Wow, that was stunning! Phoenix will do anything to save Maya...
Was it hard to write the trial?

This special someone... it's Larry, right?

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Actually....it's Gant.

The awesome fanfic Our Secret Mission has finally come to an end. And it's a marvellously done happy ending for our favourite couple. This really is one of the best stories I've ever read.

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Nice idea, but it doesn't line up with the actual writers/directors writing and conceptual considerations in-game like 1-5->GS4 does...
"I never SAW her again". So she SENDS DVDs.
But I had the impression he quit being a lawyer after 2-4, so it wouldn't match up. I suppose a year later he might bring himself to take a ['that'] case again, but things don't really match up with what's said.

Well this site has the parallel/alt timeline thing happening anyway. Check the comics!



Yeah, they were never 'friends' before, although it's implied it only happened AFTER the disbarring bar assn. thing. Phoenix must have been suspicious from the start, else they are portraying him as gullible as Feenie. [Which adds to my argument that they regressed his char to 1-5 timepoint effectively, in terms of writing even if not literally]. The symbolic parallels with the Edgeworth story are NOT welcome [except to P/K shippers]



Yeah, but they're ambigious Easter Eggs, not concrete plot connections, like every Easter Egg of filler cases in AJ from game 2. The Gavineers Band and Gramarye Troupe would still exist in an alternate timeline, all that's different is some of Phoenix's own interactions. [and Maya's, and things on which changed actions exert significant effect.]


This scene seriously depresses me for some reason. The way he's reminiscing, it's like Maya has mysteriously disappeared....




Well, I wrote it in combination with the other trial...
It might have been easier if I'd researched things like 'how to write a mystery novel' but of course I didn't. As it was, I had to write extensive notes of every significant char's POV of the crime, every 'issue' which would be raised and discussed in the court and how and the actors' around them's knowledge of said issue AND what they would actually want and NOT want to uncover about them... Then it had to be converted to a passable narrative...
I take it it's passed? *collapses from relief*

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I wish I could read more Japanese >__< It seems that none of them are alarmed by the 2 Phoenix's XD If Hobo teases Apollo so much, I bet he'd tease his Lawyer self just as much XD


I want to see Hat-hair Phoenix! Which reminds me of this art: http://chinchikurin.deviantart.com/art/ ... R-85291118 (he looks so cute with messy hair >__< ) I hope if he appears in GS5, he gets rid of the hat. He can keep the stubble and hoodie if he wants, it makes him look cute XD


Yeah, they were only pretend-friends, even Kristoph realizes this. But for me who played AJ without knowing any spoilers, it's weird to come to the first trial and "oh btw this is my new friend who we've never met before" and "I asked him for help 'cause he's the only one" (though afterwards you realize it's just Phoenix's way to bring Kristoph to the courtroom)

I still haven't finished the fic I started like last week ^^; I have bits and pieces of it and can't figure out how to end it >__< (even though it's a one-shot)

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I personally think Phoenix's being 'friends' with Kristoph was to convince him that he was not a threat to Kristoph and keep him in the dark about his investigation and plot to defeat him.

Think about it, why doesn't Kristoph make any further moves to ruin Phoenix's life after the disbarring plot? Why doesn't he think anything is odd when Phoenix asks Apollo to represent him in court instead of him? I think thanks to Phoenix, Kristoph made the classic mistake many villains make: He's so overconfident in his plans, and so uncaring about other people, that he couldn't imagine Phoenix ever coming up with something to stop him.

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Well, he still seems to have the spikes under the hat, maybe marginally shorter, some of the non-sprite pics show it more obviously:
<-ah, the infamous strip search.
Oh yeah
ESG Studio WTH
Also,I want to know why Phoenix was let INSIDE the detention centre cell to play poker (or was Zak not in detention for some reason?). Ah plotholes.

How about.. making it a 2-parter so you can get ideas with feedback???

Still, Kristoph clearly thinks he's somehow keeping tabs on Phoenix with the 'relationship'; it doesn't suit Kristoph's carefully constructed image to just randomly be seen in public with disgraced hobos. I suppose he was too arrogant to assume Phoenix could do anything with the 4-1 trial even with Apollo and would merely concentrate on saving his own life.

Do you think Kristoph's intention was to frame Phoenix for the murder? He was pretty intent on pinning it on Orly though, so I don't think he intended to 'dispose' of Phoenix that way; just erase any danger from Phoenix knowing what really happened, since Phoenix would be too preoccupied with his own situation...

Actually one of the worst things about GS4 is how everything 'just happened' to fall in place at once. Someone chose that moment of all the 7 years to lick the stamp or whatever it was; just in time for Phoenix to 'change' to a different trial for the jurist thing. It was clear Phoenix was actively waiting for Zak [maybe the reason he took the poker 'job' in the first place] but that one for the jurist trial can't be logically explained.

Anyway, the exact specifics of the Phoenix-Kristoph 'friendship' [a fake literal poker game both ways from day 1, I'd say] for the 7 years is another one of those grey areas in the game, apart from the fact of hinting Phoenix suspected Kristoph from the start. They clearly kept suspicious tabs on each other for 7 years, to what extent probably isn't actually confirmed in the game?

Ah, I finally reread it! I must not have edited that for ages, I remember I wrote more stuff after then about the 1-5->GS4 continued themes and stuff.... since people seem to read that thing, I guess I should make a GK addendum.

Let's look at more fanart! elcah, of Bathtime fame, has drawn the companion piece, Bedtime. Quite hilarious. She has some other great P/M pics too...

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I find it funny how his spikes still keep their shape even under the hat all the time XD And apparently his spikes are natural, unlike Apollo who has to jell it every morning. (I've always wondered how Nick can lie down with those spikes pointing backwards.. maybe he has a special Styrofoam pillow?)


ESG obviously stands for "Edgeworth-Sponsored Game" XD Maybe Nick wasn't actually inside the detention center, maybe they were off in some special room in the visitor's area? I don't know why they'd allow them to play Poker, but maybe the suspect does have some rights to meet with his attorney in private (maybe monitored by a camera or something)?


Hmm... I don't think a 2-parter would fit, since there isn't much action and it's just conversation, and I'm missing the ending part of it XD Maybe I can post up a draft?


One of Kristoph's flaws is that he thinks he has thought of everything, and he's arrogant ("coolest defense attorney of the west"). Just like how he planned the Zak Gramayre trial (before he was fired) to ensure he wins, Kristoph plans ahead. He even kept tabs on everyone related to the case (how, I'm not sure, spy cameras perhaps). He thought of everything, but he underestimated Phoenix's power and determination. He said he knew their friendship was never pure, so I think he suspected that Nick suspected something, but he underestimated the extent of Nick's abilities (he has always thought Nick was a shame of an attorney that relies on tricks and bluffs).

I think he wasn't trying to frame Phoenix for the murder because if he makes a wrong move, he'll make Phoenix even more suspicious ("why is my 'friend' accusing me?").

On Nick's side though, at first I thought he suspected Kristoph a lot. But that's 'cause MASON has time travelling abilities. If going by actual time sequence, when he visited Vera, he had no way of knowing it was Kristoph who visited her and gave her the nail polish, nor any way of knowing it was him who Zak fired. Judging from Kristoph's comment, Nick probably never trusted him or saw him as a friend (as say, Edgeworth), even though Kristoph stood up for him (I think that alone made Nick suspicious, or at least curious). I don't know to what extent Nick suspected Kristoph was connected to that case though. Maybe he saw the nail polish when he was hanging out with Kristoph some time after they became 'friends'? Maybe he just saw through Kristoph's gentleman act but didn't know why he's not to be trusted? I think it was only when Zak mentioned he saw Kristoph leaving that he realized he was connected to the case, and when he visited Kristoph and saw the nail polish and envelope that his suspicions are confirmed and everything fell into place.


Yeah, that irked me too. I mean PW 1-3 had a LOT of convenient coincidences that helped Phoenix solve the case, but this one takes the cake. The fact that Drew died just in time for the jurist system is too perfect. Maaaaybe it was him who told Brushel to get that interview with the Mishims which at least pushed something in that direction, but he had no way of knowing the timebomb stamp, or that Drew would lick it that night. It's almost as if Phoenix is the "god" of this universe and controlled everything XD


That reminds me of this comic: http://hiimdaisy.livejournal.com/18779.html#cutid1 XD

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It is too coincidental, you're right. Especially when Phoenix says "oh I just switched the trial to something that happened last night", which just screams of a glaring "WE BROKE THE PLOT" being swept under the rug. Same too with the MASON system and time traveling. I think they had this huge idea (that may or may not have made sense) planned out and realized that they had no room to implement it. Hence we have only received fragments of the truth compiled together in a more-or-less coherent form.

AJ holds itself together like a guilty witness: strong upon first glance, but when examined begins to fall apart. For instance, even though his disbarring is, crack theories aside, accepted as fact, Phoenix is really out of character during the actual trial, and why isn't Maya mentioned? And after the disbarring...there are just too many inconsistencies: Why is 2-2 just a "certain case"?? And what does Edgeworth think? This all gives rise to the alternate timelines theory. And even with that theory, what about the time travel?

MASON is obviously keeping a lot from the player's eyes. In fact, it's possible that everything that happened in the MASON system is complete fabrication on Phoenix's part. The things that we can say are most true are the EXISTENCE (but not the method discovery) of the letters, the poison nail polish, and such evidence. Other than that, Phoenix (or Edgeworth or Maya or SOMEONE) probably discovered everything through other means than what's in the MASON system.

Even outside the system (if the first 3 cases are really outside the system; even this is debatable), we know that Phoenix is keeping a great deal secret from Apollo, and even Trucy.

(And ESG studios...hmmm...Edgeworth...*fic idea forming*)

Yeah, 'cause he learned to control the VIDEOGAME :P




Oh, I copy-pasted more stuff into my 1-5 'theory'. Thanks for reminding me! Fun fun fun...


Sorry, I can sink it. Mitsurugi != E

I wonder if it's the same in the JP screenshot?

Who had the poker chips?

I suspect that they ran out of time. The game takes a nosedive at a certain point in 4-3....

Yeah, all those comics are amazing. I especially love the whole Zak is a Jerk series, and this one

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You mean like at the very beginning when the frail little boy is accused of stealing a .45 revolver from a six-foot tall Interpol agent, fires it twice without recoil damage, then moves the body a certain distance? :P

But yeah, I've always thought Apollo Justice was just a game that ran out of something halfway through. Dunno if they ran out of time, money, , or virgin sacrifices, but it was horribly incomplete.

Honestly, the more I think about it... Phoenix being shoved into the story, the forced inclusion of the jurist system, and apparently a rushed release, I've become convinced this series has gone from a charming and innovate series into yet another Capcom cashcow. And before anyone says it, I won't deny Edgeworth's game was made for fan service, but hell, it was great quality fan service, better then cramming Phoenix into a story he didn't belong in and ruin three games of character development in the process.

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Yeah, the arrest is pretty ridiculous, but I'd say that 4-3 runs out of steam around the time when you have to watch that video over and over again, and it goes hurtling off a cliff with the nonsensical conclusion where the guy gets away unless the suspect testifies. I mean, it's a point that comes up over and over that Lamiroir's testimony isn't enough to convict Daryan because she might be lying to protect Machi, but somehow nobody thinks Machi might lie to protect himself?

4-3 does have its moments though, like when Apollo investigates the scene with Ema serving as his sidekick early on when Trucy's out in the crowd, or when you are just perceiving the FUCK out of Machi and Lamiroir's testimonies.

Also, while we're talking about 4-3, Klavier sucks at lyrics. Truth.



It wouldn't have been so bad if the event had happened, like 3 or 4 years after 3-5 (It would have made more sense that Phoenix was cocky and unflappable in the flashback trial, because he had way more experience. There would be cases Phoenix was involved in that you could draw on in sequels if you wanted to. 7 years of being a lawyer with 3 years of being unfairly barred is way less of a slap in the face to Phoenix fans than the other way around. Replaying 3-5 wouldn't be ruined by knowing that Phoenix loses his job in a few months.)

And the Ace Attorney guys really wrote themselves into a corner with Phoenix losing his badge. If Phoenix had been a mentor type, taking cases in the background and showing up occasionally to offer Apollo some sage advice, then that would have allowed Apollo to be the center of the plot, but he had to go and lose his badge and we're all "NooOOOO PHOENIX WHYYYYYyyyy?" Apollo's just out finding panties in tailpipes and bugging his eyes out in court, but we're too concerned about Phoenix to focus on him. The sequel's boned too, because everyone's going to want to see Phoenix back in black, and fuck Apollo, the writers couldn't even be arsed to give him a motivation in the first game. The writers can't even pull the "Phoenix got his badge back and now he's in court, happy as a clam," card, because Phoenix is tied to the plot by his daughter being your assistant. He's going to overshadow Apollo FOREVER. And even though the writer's couldn't give Apollo his own "classroom trial" moment, they did do a lot of secret family reveals that nobody gives a shit about, because "Luke, I am your father" reveals don't have any impact unless you're already invested in the characters!

tl;dr the writers are too busy telling us who Apollo's relatives are to tell us who he is.

For a game that I enjoyed, Apollo Justice sure sucks a lot.

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It seems that the police has gone from incompetant to plain stupid. Although in 2-1, they did think a man who died from a broken neck could write anyone's name in the sand, and nobody pointed it out (and you couldn't point it out)


I too think AAI is pretty much fan service series. I guess you could argue it's experimenting with new gameplay, but when it comes down to it, it's fanservice for one of the most popular characters. And I agree on the cashcow aspect, seeing them porting this to Wii and all....


Yeah, what irks me more than Phoenix simply being careless and lose his badge, is the time span, the fact that he did it 2 months after the end of T&T, when he has succeeded Mia in a sense. And it also makes explaining his friends' absenses very difficult. I wonder if it has to do with the "7 years and you're legally dead" part of the plot, but they could still set it a year or two after end of T&T, and set AJ 7 years after that (ie AJ happens when Nick is 35). It would explain Maya and Edgeworths' absenses much easier.

They were somehow able to squish AAI in that 2 months span in the timeline. But they basically shot themselves in the foot and killed off any possible spinoffs of Phoenix the lawyer after T&T (maybe that was the point? they don't want any more games featuring Phoenix.. despite what fans want).


That's pretty much it. The reason people want Phoenix to be a lawyer again is 'cause we don't care about Apollo. Aside from his character flatness, we were never given a chance to care about him! His life was never in danger (from mafia, Tigre, taser etc), his morals were never challenged (unlike Nick in 2-4), we never even find out what his morals are, why is he a lawyer, he just is, and his friends were never in any danger/crisis that forces him to act. And even the prosecutors didn't give him that hard of a time, other than teasing him. There's no way for us to really connect with him, to sympathize with him in any way. He's just there in order for us to help Phoenix in his quest. Even his assistant Trucy, we weren't given a chance to care about her either. I admit that the only reason I even try to like her is 'cause she's Phoenix's daughter. Aside from that, she's just Maya 3.0 (Ema is 2.0) but without any character development.

It's almost like Capcom was afraid to develop and character that's "better" than Phoenix. It's almost like they said
"Oh, it's time to feature a new main character, but wait, what if people won't like him? Let's bring Phoenix back so we'll attract the old fans." And somewhere in the middle it became "Bah we can't think of anything for this guy, let's focus on Phoenix instead, at least it'll make the old fans happy." They were so focused on that, that they forgot to give Apollo his own character.

I admit I was very happy to play as Phoenix again in 4-4 (despite the conclusion that I already know beforehand). But that just proved Capcom's initial thoughts, what we really want is another game with Phoenix, not Apollo.

And this isn't the first time I've seen something like this with a series. My favourite anime series unfortunately ended up like this as well.

Oops, we have somehow went from talking about crack theories to how Apollo sucks as a main character XD


Haha, that's a perfect way to describe it, now that I think about it. I now feel the same way... and the reason I like AJ is the shiny sprites and

But aside from all of AJ's flaws, we do have another angle to imagine interactions between Maya and Nick (ie something other than Lawyer!Nick to interact with maya)

Edit: Look, I finally finished my fic: present-testimony/maplerose-one-shot-fanfics-t19095.html it ended up a LOT longer than I initially thought it would... I just kept typing and typing and typing.......

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Well said, Icarus.
That's a good idea of having the disbarring occur 3 or 4 years AFTER 3-5, but they were obviously going for maximum injustice emotive impact. Also we might think Phoenix somehow went Grossberg-style in the ensuing 3 years or something. Though he was so OOC in the 'flashback trial' it didn't work out anyway, my suspension of belief can NOT site that just after 3-5 unless he was drugged or brainwashed or something.. I really don't think they were writing it with an eye to GS5, they just kept a few plotlines open 'in case'. They were also going for the idiotic symbolic number '7 years in the wilderness'

I don't think that was the reason.

Regardless of literal 'alt scenario timelines', conceptually I'll argue it's NOT supposed to be set after GS3's actual STORY. This sounds weird, but not if we see it as the written stories they really are, rather than Phoenix's literal life-span.

Conceptually, it's only a sequel to 1-5 - they dredge up all the same things, particularly FORGED EVIDENCE. I'm thinking they were already throwing ideas around for the 'all new cast' potential GS4, before Phoenix was forced into them. 1-5 actually ret-cons a lot of 1-4/game 2 to artificially accentuate the role of FORGED EVIDENCE and evidence law. Please do read the part I added on the END here, I'm very interested in feedback.
I didn't mention it, but the Kristoph-Phoenix dynamic also seems like an ironic spin on the Gant-Edgeworth dynamic, like I said here.





Well yes, one thing about the original PW1-3 is that it was a very coherent trilogy which didn't NEED any more added to it. The sidequest 1-5, although superfluous, was fun to play as it didn't unreasonably conflict with existing plot and characterisation (although ret-coning a lot of Edgeworth's Demon Prosecutor past was cheap, I feel) and they actually clearly TRIED in that sense.

Of course, above argument doesn't apply to 'not needing' Phoenix in GS5 - now they need to either clean up the mess they made, or pretend it never existed (GK anyone?)

GK is clearly fanservice, and i'd agree with someone's assertion that it's damage control in a sense. Still,it's hoping we'll forget AJ and its shortcomings, not resolving them. They could have patched up SOME GS3->GS4 continuity with the game, but they didn't.

But well, using your franchise's ICONIC CHARACTER as the sacrificial lamb to slaughter to sell your new game isn't quite the most... intelligent tactic.

The SERIES is about fighting and resolving injustice. We never properly resolve Phoenix's injustice- his name is eventually cleared, but there's no sense of undoing the last 7 years, which supposedly erased everything from at least GS2 and 3. People thinking he shoudln't be 'allowed' to be a lawyer again, it's like Kristoph won anyway. (killing Phoenix Wright! Unforgivable!) Since the game's foundation was exploiting our attachment to Phoenix, I don't think this kind of response is unreasonable or unanticipated.

I'd better mention it's not Takumi/Matsukawa's fault they had to write a jurist system centric game, I think they understandably had trouble doing so, PW1-3 probably didn't have such criteria to cramp their style. Capcom got actual money form the Govt, I believe, as part of their arts/culture/whatever thing to engage the JP public on jurist systems. I assume that Matsukawa/Takumi envisaged they could make a new game with a new cast, but the trigger from Capcom came, it was directly to capitalise on the jurist system thing. So yeah, Capcom probably sold out in a sense. And Phoenix was the marketing hook for previous players, which is why I DON'T think it's somehow in bad taste to complain over certain 'shortfalls' of the game and just be 'grateful' or whatever.

Now,if only they'd made GK to start with...but hey, AJ made short term money. GK is an example of how they SHOULD handle absent chars - Phoenix doesn't properly appear, but his effect-relation to Edgeworth is discreetly implied, not just some dumb easter egg.


I was impressed by GK's graphics, AJ didn't have that effect on me, possibly cause of 1-5. It just seemed surreal. Phoenix and Maya need some nice GK sprites! Yeah, AJ exist for Phoenix's sprites and Hobo/Maya fanfic concepts. Post 3-5 P/M was a lovely idea, it's slightly more limiting in terms of fanfic diversity because their 'partnership', at least, is resolved. GS4 motivates us to write our own resolutions, because we HAVE to.


Yeah, I admit this about Trucy, the only other reason I liked her was she was more helpful than USELESS Apollo in 4-2, to the point I wished SHE was the protagonist we were playing. But hey, it was a plot point to FORCE us to care about her, since her permanent magic show act may not have effected this otherwise, particularly since we don't get detail on the Zak abandonment till 4-4. I mean, we have reason to care about and value Maya upfront, and it's VERY effective.


Well yeah, this just feeds into my theory the player was just supposed to be self-inserting on Apollo the generic avatar as a means to view Phoenix and judge him. Which is more flattering than just assuming hopeless writing.

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I still have a bit of a soft spot for Apollo because of how badly he got overshadowed in his own game. It's like Conan and Leno, except I don't hate Phoenix.

In this metaphor:
Apollo is Conan
Phoenix is Leno
the Apollo Justice writing team are NBC executives
Miles Edgeworth is David Letterman
Franziska von Karma is Jimmy Kimmel
Godot is Craig Ferguson
Winston Payne is Jimmy Fallon
Klavier is LaBamba
Maya, Gumshoe, Ema, Trucy, Pearl and Kay are Max Weinberg and the Tonight Show Band
Grossberg is the Masturbating Bear

I hope that explains everything!

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Yikes, I thought this was the 'Phoenix and Maya' fan club, not the 'Apollo Justice sucks!' club. I think we've drifted off topic a bit...

But to quickly throw in my two cents... I think what Capcom need to do is rerelease AJ with certain sections rewritten and all the story/character/continuity issues sorted out, so the story actually works with the main series timeline. Then release it as a budget title/downloadable content. I can't imagine that it would be hard to do, and hey, it's Capcom. They take older games and tweak them all the time. (Street Fighter anyone?)

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Aw, man... I'm too busy lately, but now I have a 3 days vacation, and I'lll try to use it.
Some good news:
-I found a good song for my vid, and a lawyer\Maya one. And I love it too. Wish me luck with that.
-My 2-4 fic is almost done(And I have to say, it's kind of a brainfuck. BEWARE OF THE WIDDOW!
-I practiced painting a lot lately, so soon I'm going to start to paint a picture of MayaXNick soon. I wish it will be good, since I draw only one person at a time. Two people in a physical contract will be hard to paint, but I'll do my best.
I think that I'll post my 2-4 fic today, maybe tomorrow.

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Looking forward to it. Especially the 2-4 fic. Because a miracle... is something that doesn't exist!
I've brainwashed myself....

Well, we have to put the game in context; how else are we ever going to write coherent Hobo/Maya fanfic or theories?
Also somebody named this the Phoenix and Maya fan club, even if it is effectively the Phoenix/Maya fanclub, so we're discussing Phoenix, effectively.

An edited ver of GS4 [maybe a 5th case too?] would of course be a great idea. If only we could do it ourselves with a ROM hack But I don't think it will ever occur, Capcom probably don't know the exact issue with AJ enough to demand something like 'Edit it to fix the plot and character discontinuity between game 3 and game 4!'
Also some hardcore Apollo fans would think this sacrilege. Though considering what they did to Phoenix in AJ, I don't think the writers would care...

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Probably, due to the way PW franchise is written and released, and who wrote what. Even the Apollo Justice trailer, where it shows you the cover art for PWAA, then JFA, then T&T, then 1-5, and then goes to AJ. I think 1-5 was kind of a "proof of concept" thing for AJ in terms of new DS gameplay (which sadly, AJ didn't end up taking full advantage of). Storywise, I can probably see that, where 1-5 is part of the split timeline that doesn't fit into the original trilogy, and the original timeline doesn't include 1-5.


But it worked didn't it? I mean, fans found out "OMG Phoenix is disbarred, why?!?!" and thus they must play AJ (and finish playing) to find out the answer. I know I played through 4-2 and 4-3 (the "fillers") to get to that answer in 4-4.


I don't get why they can't still write a totally new story, stick Phoenix in it as a minor character (Mia's role as mentor that comes occassionally to give advice, heck they could make Apollo the new worker at Wright & Co, I mean with Wright getting more fame he would get more cases, and it wouldn't be odd for him to hire another lawyer... or did they think that's too repetitive or something?), and still put the jurist system in there, with new characters. Were they afraid if the jurist wasn't judging Phoenix, but a new character, people wouldn't be as interested?


But 1-5 doesn't have the shiny new courtroom, and Phoenix and Edgeworth didn't get shiny sprite update either And I agree that we need Lawyer!Nick and Maya shiny sprites.


That's kinda sad actually, and I feel bad for Apollo, 'cause he does have potential. Phoenix was meant to be his own character aside from being just the player avatar, and because of that, we end up liking him, instead of just being boring avatar.


I was hoping the Wii port would come with a bonus chapter like 1-5 came with the DS port, maybe taking advantage of Wii controls... but I doubt they'd fix AJ, not because they don't know the exact issues, but because they don't care to. I'm sure they're aware of the issues and plot holes, but they're just ignoring it rather than try to fix it (which would cost money)



I don't think GK would show Edgeworth interacting with Phoenix's disbarring even if it were set after AJ flashback and chose to acknowledge it, which is precisely why they set it before, so they don't have to. Why? Because this game is supposed to feature Edgeworth and his values through his own investigations. While Edgeworth does have his "what would Jesus Phoenix do" moments, he specifically never mentions Phoenix's name. Even though fans would be dying to know/see Edgeworth helping Nick with the disbarring, it would just end up being about Phoenix again, which is exactly what they don't want. Besides, AAI is all about the TRUTH what it means to be a Prosecutor, not really forged evidence (even though illegal evidence did come into question, it was more about the morals about using it vs the TRUTH rather than forging itself).

And I never thought Maya got shipped back to Kurain permanently before that trial. I just thought she was missing for that trial because she had some important Kurain Master business to attend to (like meeting important people or something). And because Phoenix got the job the night before, it's not like she could've foreseen it and scheduled her Kurain stuff around it, nor can Phoenix just call her up and ask for her help.

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Yeah, because Capcom would never take one of their older games and invest money in improving it and adding new features to satisfy long time fans...

Oh wait.

Perhaps the fans just need to really tell Capcom how much they want a remake. They asked for more Edgeworth, Capcom made a whole game about him. If the interest for more Apollo and Phoenix is there, then maybe we'll see more of them sometime down the line...

Actually, a remake could be perfectly timed with the release of Nintendo's new 3DS console. Much like they re-released PW1 with a new case made for DS features, AJ could come back with a new case specially for the 3DS.

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When I saw that part, I realized that's almost just like the scenario in 4-1 where Phoenix uses that fake card to trip up Kristoph. I always thought this was kind of the GK writers trying to say, "Get off Phoenix's back about that stupid card!"

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Of course it worked short term, everyone bought the game. But did it work long term? Do we have an AJ sequel or trilogy? Can they capitalise on the old PW games as much as they could have? No, they have to retreat to GK, which clearly evades the AJ Problem.

I don't feel bad for Apollo,'cause Phoenix got the short straw. Phoenix was ret-coned from his 'happy end' into some farcical disbarring plot *just* to facilitate playing with Apollo as protagonist, and it wasn't worth it for someone that boring :P


People who like AJ and don't put much value on Maya throw this theory around as a 'perfectly reasonable assumption' a lot.

99% sure they won't, since the 1-3 games received little tech upgrade even to capitalise on Wii, so far as I can tell. In fact they haven't announced AJ Wii, or have they?

Any number of alternatives were possible. I like the 'Apollo stayed as Kristoph's apprentice and found out about the plot against Phoenix himself' idea. Maybe he stopped it BEFORE the disbarring idiocy, even.

I admit it's probably less compelling in theory. But their idea overall only worked in theory. In practice, do people realise they are judging PHOENIX as a 'jurist'? I'm not sure the game would convert me to the idea of juries either if I wasn't already amicable to the idea living in a western society where it's the norm.

They could have just showed some interaction in the credits even. An easter egg to hint that Edgeworth still considers Phoenix his friend after the disbarring/respects him. i.e. just made the warm, fuzzy feelings obviously about Phoenix during the game occur after the 'disbarring' on the timeline.

Thanks for reading! I actually meant all that stuff about 1-5's themes at the end [since i obviously wrote the GK stuff off the top of my head at 2:30am]


You noticed! That was more of my 'evidence'.. but it didn't seem to make it to my 'essay'? I must have written it early in the piece. Maybe another edit is in order... Yes 1-5 was clearly a pilot/tech demo for AJ in a range of ways, and much better. And the minigames were generally more fun and less superfluous.

Well, Ghost Trick seems to suggest Takumi likes his ghosts better than 'magic', actually the 'magic' was an ironic spin on the 'spirit medium' thing too, people thought Misty/Kurain etc. in general were faking, but magic really IS faking. I think they went overboard with their taste for irony.
Speaking of Ghost Trick, hey, bet Phoenix being in that will sell games even as a cameo... hmm, he better not be DEAD.

Will they want to make Special Edition AJ? Without similar re-release of PW1-3 and AJ being the one to get special treatment? PW1 is still sort of the iconic game of the series....
I'm not sure they want to write continuity, since they so clearly did not want to originally and wanted a 'separate story' much as it makes no logical sense. I think it's more likely a 5th case could be added without editing the rest, but I'm not sure how it'd ret-con continuity, so what ideas did people envisage here? I know I have a few...


Yes, it was 'interesting'. But not in a court, so people will still press this 'difference'.
I don't think AJ even entered their consciousness, plotwise, when writing, in an interview they ask Eshiro 'where was Edgeworth during the disbarring fiasco?' and Eshiro laughs his head off before saying 'Absolutely no clue.'

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I haz art. It's relevant to Phoenix/Maya, I promise! Sort of! Well, yeah, Phoenix isn't in it...but. Still.
Very very quick, rough tablet sketch. Wish I had more chances to use the damn things..

This is canon. Guess what she's doing. Hint; It's in JFA..

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Oh my god she isn't writing a suicide note, is she?
Just kidding,:P. I know that she is just writing a note to Mia. Nice one Hikari

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ooh nice, I like the sketchy lines ^^ she's writing the note to Nick to tell him to make sure to get a guilty verdict for Matt? (wow so many "to"s in one sentence XD)

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