Game and Real court: differences!?
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But I kind of think real court is actually a bit easier than the game, in certain points. I've studied some introductory law and watched a few cases in real life at my local district court, but I'm still a rookie at law. However, I think there's enough for me to say the game is kind of simplifying the legal process (NOT to say it is inferior or that it sucks, because I'm personally addicted to it, and it doesn't suck at all, it's a lot better than other DS games I've seen).
Anyway, my personal opinions aside (because they're not worth much...learned it in class. The judge and court doesn't care what you think, they only care that what you say is logical and that you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that your case is valid), I guess here's the down side of the game:
- It comes a bit short in leaving out that previous cases must be cited to support your case, along with decisive evidence( this is what you need to do IRL as a lawyer). However, this point is understandable, since to input previous cases would make it easier to argue your case, and it will make the production budget go through the roof.
- The characters just repeatedly say the same thing unless you follow certain rules (i.e. press one statement, present evidence in another), that's the headache part. IRL it's easier to make witnesses slip up.
- It sometimes misrepresents aspects of the court, such as position and clothing. I'm not sure what the dress code is for the U.S., however, Canadian lawyers must wear a simple suit (like Mia Fey's, except less cleavage and no Magatama necklace) and the generic black attorney's robe, regardless of gender. No wig needed, just the robe. Also, Franciska's treatment of the Judge DEFINITELY won't be tolerated in a real court (as all of you probably figured out already ^^). Phoenix Wright does say the Judge ought to hold her in "contempt of court" once.
-"Contempt of Court" is another vague law, it basically means the judge may charge anybody in the courtroom for what they deem is rude to the court. So anything from a snide comment about the Judge ("Omg, the Judge is bald, he's ugly") to actual rude gestures and behaviours (repeatedly kicking the stands, spitting at lawyers, etc). Of course, Judges are usually also mature enough not to charge "Contempt of court" for a rude comment, as long as it's not based on any racial comments.
The up side:
- It's simple and easy to understand for the average person, so it's good. Anyone can play :D
- It trains the player to pay close attention to details and find contradictions.
Well....that's it for now. Comments? Boring? This sucks? Your own experience? Stories?
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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And since this is mostly about the game, I'll move it to the proper section.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Hmm....if I wanted to ramble about some rather hilarious cases that I've seen, would it suffice to post it in the other section (the section this was originally posted in)?
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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There are also a bunch of questions that Phoenix asks and stuff that wouldn't be actually allowed in a real cross-examination.
Plus the defense can call witnesses. Well, they technically can in the PW universe (as shown in 4-3) but at least they do it more in real life
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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- Objection is used to stop something, at least, the attorneys I watched seemed to use it to that effect. But the objection better have a good reason, like pointing out that what the opposition asked/stated is irrelevant to the case. Or that their statement is baseless assumptions, like in PW!
-Both sides can call witness, but only if the witnesses can provide decisive testimony (so a coffee shop employee knowing that the defendant bought a cup of coffee isn't really that decisive, unless the fact that the defendant DID buy a cup of coffee can serve as proof for validation of another statement).
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Amii_Kakure wrote:
-Both sides can call witness, but only if the witnesses can provide decisive testimony (so a coffee shop employee knowing that the defendant bought a cup of coffee isn't really that decisive, unless the fact that the defendant DID buy a cup of coffee can serve as proof for validation of another statement).
Whee! That happened in 4-3 too xD
Except it seems that rule only applies to defense attorneys ^^'
I might go to a few random trials if I feel like it... and get the time to do it.
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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-If you do something forceful (i.e. yelling, slamming your hand on the desk) it's often the Judge will proclaim you out of order.
-ALL evidence, witnesses, and files are looked over by BOTH sides before a case.
-Usually it takes at least a few months from the time of the crime to get a court hearing.
-You don't scream, "Hold it!" or "Take that!"... That would just net you odd looks.
-The crime is not ALWAYS comitted by someone other than the defendant.
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Mr. Thunder wrote:
-The crime is not ALWAYS comitted by someone other than the defendant.
Spoiler: JFA
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Mr. Thunder wrote:
You missed a few ones that seem a bit obvious... Never been to a trial, but I know what real ones are like.
-If you do something forceful (i.e. yelling, slamming your hand on the desk) it's often the Judge will proclaim you out of order.
-ALL evidence, witnesses, and files are looked over by BOTH sides before a case.
-Usually it takes at least a few months from the time of the crime to get a court hearing.
-You don't scream, "Hold it!" or "Take that!"... That would just net you odd looks.
-The crime is not ALWAYS comitted by someone other than the defendant.
-If you do something forceful (i.e. yelling, slamming your hand on the desk) it's often the Judge will proclaim you out of order.
-ALL evidence, witnesses, and files are looked over by BOTH sides before a case.
-Usually it takes at least a few months from the time of the crime to get a court hearing.
-You don't scream, "Hold it!" or "Take that!"... That would just net you odd looks.
-The crime is not ALWAYS comitted by someone other than the defendant.
Yup! ^^ but I was just doing a general evaluation...didn't know how reactions would be like, so I decided to keep it brief.
About the obvious...well, it's because they're obvious. But thanks for your addition!! This topic is beginning to pick up some speed!! >:D
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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- Attorneys in real life usually work in at least a pair of two, and both do roughly the same amount of prosecuting or defending. They help each other out when one can't sufficiently answer the question posed to them. I had the luck of talking to two Crown attorneys before the first trial I watched. They're really keen-eyed. One look at us and they already knew we weren't even university/college students, and that we weren't from around the area (or it's just that we're all puny and tiny, I guess ^^;;)
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Amii_Kakure wrote:
Also, Franciska's treatment of the Judge DEFINITELY won't be tolerated in a real court (as all of you probably figured out already ^^). Phoenix Wright does say the Judge ought to hold her in "contempt of court" once.
Yeah i think most of us realized that the first time we saw her do it
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Spoiler: Examples (GS1/3)
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Actually, in most of the U.S. and Canada, as well as Britain, the death penalty has been abolished because there was a lot of debate about it being too inhumane and not really working to deter murderers.
This being because you can't fight hate with hate, and similarly, killing someone who has killed another didn't solve any problems, just led to more people killing each other in response, like a chain.
Also, murderers didn't learn from their mistakes and learn the importance of life. curent murderers sit in jail and are pretty much in isolation (depending on how severe their sentence is, they might be allowed to attend university/college courses in jail so they can qualify for jobs when they are let out, and hopefully they learn their lesson and live to do good). During the isolation, most of them come to regret the fact that they did something irreversible, after having thought things through.
And well, it could be said that sitting there and regretting is way worse a punishment than just dying off, since in the heat of things, one would think they did right to kill and have no regrets. But when they think again for a long time, more things start to surface (or not).
Also, another fact of RL law!
- To keep the atmosphere fairly polite and friendly, it is often (in Canada) for all the attorneys and the Judge(s) to get together after a case for coffee and such. I was kind of miffed when I saw that.
I mean, they were totally grilling each other during the case, and the Judges was SO heated, too! They were so demanding and strict, it was actually scary. The attorneys on both sides were also pretty competitive during the trial. There was also a lot of legal lingo, it was really hard to understand.
All of a sudden, after the trial:
Judge1: So...anyone up for some coffee and timbits at the Tim Hortons on the street corner?
Defense attorneys: Of course! I'd be delighted! :D
Crown atorneys: Count us in! :D
Yeah...btw, for people not familiar with Tim Hortons and timbits (should there be any):
Tim Hortons is a fast food service (common in Canada) that serves donuts, timbits (and other pastries, mostly sweet), coffee, subs, and soup. It's geared towards office workers, but they're pretty popular with academics and sophisticates.
Timbits are sort of a Tim Hortons specialty, they're basically the "holes" of donuts...small round balls of pastry made and/or decorated the same way as donuts.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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And witnesses are usually smartly dressed, not wearing silly costumes (
, 
).
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Canadian RL fact:
- Being a prosecutor is actually more work than a defense attorney (not by a lot, though). In countries where it is a given that one is innocent until proven guilty, the onus of proof (burden of proof) is on the prosecution to show that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
In countries where one is guilty unless they can prove otherwise, defense has it harder (after all, the client is already in jail and presumed guilty, so gathering evidence to prove otherwise is difficult). I think France still folows this system, though I'm not too sure about that.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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I imagine to find a couple of law books published by Reader's Digest at a garage sales.
However both are really outdated as they been printed in the late 1980s. So there has been revisions to most of the laws in the books. Still they cover the
basics of what law is and legal matters a person might face.
The most complicated one that I have is the one on Business Law and that is a college level textbook.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Shion wrote:
Wow Amii_Kakure thanks for providing an interesting topic on law!
I imagine to find a couple of law books published by Reader's Digest at a garage sales.
However both are really outdated as they been printed in the late 1980s. So there has been revisions to most of the laws in the books. Still they cover the
basics of what law is and legal matters a person might face.
The most complicated one that I have is the one on Business Law and that is a college level textbook.
I imagine to find a couple of law books published by Reader's Digest at a garage sales.
However both are really outdated as they been printed in the late 1980s. So there has been revisions to most of the laws in the books. Still they cover the
basics of what law is and legal matters a person might face.
The most complicated one that I have is the one on Business Law and that is a college level textbook.
Thanks!
I'd say your book is pretty good, then....a college level textbook....those things cost a lot...and well, with textbooks, I don't think they change much. During my co-op, I had the luck to work at a local by-law department, and I also towed my textbook along.
One of the officers were like, "Wow, they still use those? I remember that book from when I was in class." and I was like, "Really!?" O.O
Laws get revised a lot, but the basics more or less stay the same, I guess...
Business Law? That's pretty deep...I don't get it @.@
Well, if you want something legally inclined and up-to-date, the Walrus is an academic journal centering on law.I'm not sure if it's just on Canadian law or others as well. It basically focuses on major debates in the legal sector (such as reinstating the death penalty).
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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And the whole spirit medium thing is something different in general reality, not just in court.
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Amii_Kakure wrote:
Yep!! ^.^
Actually, in most of the U.S. and Canada, as well as Britain, the death penalty has been abolished because there was a lot of debate about it being too inhumane and not really working to deter murderers.
Actually, in most of the U.S. and Canada, as well as Britain, the death penalty has been abolished because there was a lot of debate about it being too inhumane and not really working to deter murderers.
I don't know about Canada and Britain, but since a significant percentage of US citizens can't find the US on a map, it takes us a little longer to decide these things. As such,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Crimes_subject_to_capital_punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Methods
plz refer to graphs on the right.
For some reason, US citizens have got it into their head that the death penalty is only given to criminals (or something) and that we couldn't possibly be wrong on a conviction, so the death penalty stays in most of the nation.
However, a little while back, the death penalty was suspended and no one could do executions for a while. That stopped recently, and they're back to their lethal injections like the beurocracy (spell = meh) that they are.
If you haven't noticed, I'm not a fan of my government.
interesting side note.
Spoiler:
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Amii_Kakure wrote:
Ooh~! Good one! The judiciary breaks its own laws in PW L.A.!
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
I agree. He needs to be removed from his cell long enough to strap him in THE CHAIR, or put him in front of a firing squad
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Amii_Kakure wrote:
In countries where one is guilty unless they can prove otherwise, defense has it harder (after all, the client is already in jail and presumed guilty, so gathering evidence to prove otherwise is difficult). I think France still folows this system, though I'm not too sure about that.
> In France it's innocent until proven guilty, and it's called "présomption d'innocence".
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Bad Player wrote:
You can't say that in real like people aren't named a name =\
And the whole spirit medium thing is something different in general reality, not just in court.
And the whole spirit medium thing is something different in general reality, not just in court.
I was just making a joke. GAAAAAWWD.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Also, I have to say, I've always secretly wanted to watch a trial, haha, so I'm kind of jealous that you got to do that.
I'm afraid.
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Worse, it knows nothing of whim.
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Worse, it knows nothing of whim.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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JohnnyR wrote:
Amii_Kakure wrote:
Ooh~! Good one! The judiciary breaks its own laws in PW L.A.!
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
I agree. He needs to be removed from his cell long enough to strap him in THE CHAIR, or put him in front of a firing squad
But if governments discriminate based on the seriousness of the crimes, whats to say that they won't put the wrong person to the chair next time? This thread can go in the wrong direction and get very philosophical if we aren't careful...
By the way, according to the wiki pages posted, he is in total confinement, with as little human contact as possible in order to keep him alive.
I'd say thats 20 times worse than getting to escape with death. Death penalties are as painless as possible, and you only die once. You have to live your life... for the rest of your life. What better prison than your own isolation? Can you imagine, no contact to the outside world? Its living hell.
And the best part is that if the person in those circumstances is later proven innocent, they aren't dead, so the government can't just say "oops!"
But everyone has their own opinions... (We are totally getting off topic)
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Also in PW they somehow don't know that self defense isn't murder.
Spoiler: Case 1-5
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Lusankya wrote:
If you prove that your client is innocent then you don't have to prove that another person is guilty to get an acquittal (or do you use "verdict of not guilty"?) in real life.
Also in PW they somehow don't know that self defense isn't murder.
Also in PW they somehow don't know that self defense isn't murder.
Spoiler:
Well....
Spoiler: 2-2
When you lose a case, you see that there is going to be another trial a month from then in a higher court. I'd assume that that's where they make a sentence, and if it's self defense they'll prolly give you a lighter punishment than just a pure murder
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Magnus Orion wrote:
JohnnyR wrote:
Amii_Kakure wrote:
Ooh~! Good one! The judiciary breaks its own laws in PW L.A.!
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
Thank you for the interesting addition...I've only studied Canadian law (intro course) and a bit of American law, but not a lot. So it would appear that actually, most of the US has capital punishment still instated?
For Canada, we took out the capital punishment because of human errors and we'd rather let guilty people live than to kill an innocent person. Guess we let people off too easily...people like Paul Bernardo just takes up space, in my opinion.
Paul Bernardo was this psycho-killer who tortured and raped around 8-15 girls...all around ages 14-21. The thing is, he even videotaped what he did, and his wife HELPED him. She even let him rape her own sister...they're both plainly sick and inhumane people. I"m not even going to go into detail about what they did, but if anyone is interested, here's the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/
Last I heard about it, Bernardo is in the tightest security prison Canada has to offer, and he's to be left in complete isolation and only has enough human contact to keep him alive. I think that's just a waste of space and food. If it's already determined that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life rotting in prison, they might as well kill him. No need to spend resources to keep him alive for nothing. He even admitted he did what he did and he had fun doing it. That's the sick part.
His wife helped, but she claimed she was beaten and threatened by him. I don't believe it, and nobody in Canada buys it either, except maybe her mother. She gets off for testifying against Bernardo, and she's currently living in Quebec with her lover, scott-free. What the hell?
I agree. He needs to be removed from his cell long enough to strap him in THE CHAIR, or put him in front of a firing squad
But if governments discriminate based on the seriousness of the crimes, whats to say that they won't put the wrong person to the chair next time? This thread can go in the wrong direction and get very philosophical if we aren't careful...
By the way, according to the wiki pages posted, he is in total confinement, with as little human contact as possible in order to keep him alive.
I'd say thats 20 times worse than getting to escape with death. Death penalties are as painless as possible, and you only die once. You have to live your life... for the rest of your life. What better prison than your own isolation? Can you imagine, no contact to the outside world? Its living hell.
And the best part is that if the person in those circumstances is later proven innocent, they aren't dead, so the government can't just say "oops!"
But everyone has their own opinions... (We are totally getting off topic)
You're true and right to point that out, but Paul Bernardo has been certified by the prison's doctors to be a pathological killer. His mental state deviates from normal people, he actually doesn't feel regret at all, nor does he respond to isolation. He's pretty much someone who doesn't give a damn if he's in prison, and doesn't give a damn and goes out to kill people when there's people around...that's why I say that. It's not just the severity of his crimes, it's his mental state. ><
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Ping' wrote:
Amii_Kakure wrote:
In countries where one is guilty unless they can prove otherwise, defense has it harder (after all, the client is already in jail and presumed guilty, so gathering evidence to prove otherwise is difficult). I think France still folows this system, though I'm not too sure about that.
> In France it's innocent until proven guilty, and it's called "présomption d'innocence".
Really? Thanks for the clarification!! :D My teacher was pretty vague about it, because he was focusing on Canadian law...sory about that if it offended you!
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Which leads me to my next point. Witnesses are generally supposed to be Handled With Care in court. They are critical in uncovering the truth to a case, and making them emotional will only worsen matters, especially if it's an eyewitness or a child/adolescent, or a loved one of the victim or suspect. Being rough with the witness can also constitute as harassment, by which the prosecution or defense could get in trouble for if they did it repeatedly. Attorneys need to handle things very delicately in murder trials. One wrong move could mean the end for everyone, and that wrong move very well could be upsetting the witness to the point where they're inclined to lie in order to spite you, no matter their personal relations to the victim or suspect.
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Here's a Godot for you!
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Basically, this means a lot (all?) of the stuff Phoenix gathers during his investigations is inadmissable. The cloth with the handprint in 1-5 is an excellent example.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Miss Prince wrote:
One thing no one in PW ever brings up is chain of evidence violations. There is a very particular procedure involved in removing evidence from a crimescene and taking it in for analysis; if it isn't followed to the letter, the evidence is inadmissable because there's a possibility it could have been tampered with.
Basically, this means a lot (all?) of the stuff Phoenix gathers during his investigations is inadmissable. The cloth with the handprint in 1-5 is an excellent example.
Basically, this means a lot (all?) of the stuff Phoenix gathers during his investigations is inadmissable. The cloth with the handprint in 1-5 is an excellent example.
Yes, there's a particular procedure... in RL. In the PW world, all they have is those 2 measly evidence laws from 1-5 xD
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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) or famous ( 
), you either get off completely or get a lesser sentence than ordinary folks.At least, that is what it seems to me to be the case.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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I'm gone for so long, and the colors got all psychedelic! Woohoo!
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Katana wrote:
Hey, I was wondering; I'm willing to bet real court is a lot less interesting, but do they often make video / Court Recorder writings public on the web for people to look at? I'm wondering if there are any notable courtroom occurrances where someone is caught in the middle of a contradiction.
Actually, that would more be a matter of opinion. If one is dedicated to law or simply like to keep up to date on the latest crimes and thier outcomes, then real court can be really interesting. There's a certain air of rigid intensity in there all the time, a hushed silence always falls over everyone in the room, and all eyes are on the attorneys.
As to whether online video streaming of court proceedings are available, I can't say I know of any. All I know is that in Canada, the court proceedings are shown out on video screens in viewing rooms beside the court, for studying. It's also to show that the courts have nothing to hide. Just no one bothers to see them. I'm not sure if they're recorded or not, but I have heard tell that they're live broadcasted on T.V. channels. But I've never actually come across any of these channels.
As to the Court Minutes recorded by the court clerks, I think are released and archived on their website. Well, at least that's how it is with Canada, but I"m not sure about the U.S. or other countries.
There are most certainly a lot of cases where there are contradictions. Some lawyers point that out right away, but that's considered sort of rash, because one should have the patience to listen thoroughly until the end, so you get the entire picture. Got to give witnesses a speaking chance, and if they don't address or clarify beyond a reasonable doubt about their contradiction, then anyone may point that out, and if it's cross-examination time, then the attorney may directly point that out.
Usually, when this happens, they note it and save it for later, so that when another contradiction arises, point that out and the noted previous one, and from that suggest that the witness's testimony is not reliable. That's when a witness who doesn't have a good reason to lie (i.e. it wasn't to protect someone else's reputation) or when they actually ARE the guilty one shows. It's usually at this point that the witnesses lose their cool, and that's the best time to press them for answers.
Though the witness can always claim their right to remain silent, then even if you question them it's rather pointless, unless you can somehow spark them to reply in agitation. Then the prosecution or defense (whichever is against) can object and tell you to stop emotionally stressing the witness, but it might be allowed by the judge if the situation is critical and it appears that the witness may know something critical to the case.
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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However, I'm not sure whether a defense attorney gets the same access to information and evidence.
Similarly, regardless of when or why, if a witness decides he/she doesn't want to answer questions, they may claim their right to remain silent at any time. It's a human right written in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms under charter section 7 and 11(c). In the U.S. it's in the fifth amendment of the Bill of Rights.
This was made a long time ago on the basis that no man should be forced to incriminate himself (now it stands for women as well).
The right to remain silent starts from the time of detention(if someone has been arrested, or as soon as they are in custody of the police, so even in a police car) to the end of the trial, as long as one claims it.
However, if the Judge(s) feel that a certain witness is hiding decisive information, they may be compelled to talk, with the promise that anything they say cannot be used to incriminate them, not in the current trial nor at a trial later on. A person can be tricked into giving evidence, but it is admissable only when the evidence is used to incriminate a third party.
In the U.S., if the State feels there is a need, a suspect or witness may be granted immunity in exchange for testimony and/or evidence. Immunity comes in two forms, blanket immunity, which guarantees the witness from future prosecution for crimes related to their testimony (a person might have been a theif stealing some jewelry and came across a murder, so for saying he/she saw the murder, they can't be convicted of theft later). The other form is use immunity, which means their testimony can't be used against them, but a prosecutor can prosecute them if he/she can find decisive evidence to support their charge.
However, witnesses who are the spouse of the defendant cannot be compelled to give evidence at all. That being because under the law, a married couple is one unit of individual, so asking someone's wife to incriminate her husband is the same as asking the man to incriminate himself. Except in sex offences where the victim(s) is/are (a) child(ren).
Re: Game and Real court: differences!?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
In real life, if you are rich ( ) or famous ( ), you either get off completely or get a lesser sentence than ordinary folks.
At least, that is what it seems to me to be the case.
) or famous ( ), you either get off completely or get a lesser sentence than ordinary folks.At least, that is what it seems to me to be the case.
Hm...haven't been on for a long time, but just for update's sake, yeah. The lesser sentence is called plea bargaining. It's when someone has committed a lesser crime in the process of committing the crime that they are curently being charged guilty of (i.e. A breaks into B's house and kills B...2 crimes: Trespassing/break and enter +murder). When it may seem disadvantageous and maybe even impossible to get off clean, usually defense attorneys would advise their client to plea bargain, and admit to the smaller crime and thus get a lighter punishment.
Sometimes the Judge might actually offer that because the case is very marginal, there is equal chance that someone might have or might not have done the crime, but the trial takes forever and there is no conclusive evidence to be found at all, and the Judge sort of hopes to jilt the person into admitting the truth. There has been debate about this way to setttle disputes isn't settling at all. It's not justice, it's bias that's held behind closed doors, away from the eyes of the public.
Personally, I think that's true. So many criminals get let off easy this way, when they should have beein serving their full time and really being subject to law.
Yet, people know that if they acept the plea bargain, they escape being convicted of the bigger crime. That being because (well in Canada anyways) under the Charter, individuals can't be convicted twice in a row for a certain lapse of time. So by the time they come out from prison, most people would have forgotten about the case, and the judge certainly wouldn't think to reopen the case again, unless it proves to be an extreme injustice that NEEDS to be righted.
And yes, about the rich and famous thing: because businessmen and stars are successful people, and also because the laws forbid the system from letting people earn their livelihood, the rich either get to go out to work during the day and come back into "prison" (their prison is like a five star hotel...it's ridiculous)...and usually they do, because if they don't, they get another warrant for full time detention, and nothing can save them then. Or, the rich simply get off scot-free after they pay their fines.
Which is good that these two things aren't in the game..it would totally screw up gamers' sense of justice, especially if the player is a young individual who hasn't really grown enough to tell between right and wrong.
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