What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Sentence me if this was made before.[/lamepun]
Spoiler: All PW games
Whew, that's all.
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Spoiler: All PW games
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Charles Phipps wrote:
Nice topic. Here's my rebuttal to some of your points.
[/quote]Spoiler: All PW games
Whoa, I totally forgot about the whole "copkilling" thing.
But one thing bothered me:
Spoiler: case 2-4
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Anyways, I'm pretty sure everyone gets death, barring extrenuating circumstances, as in 3-2 the Judge says murder is a capital crime with a capital punishment
Ones who I think might not have gotten death
Dee Vasquez(self defense)
Matt Engarde(technically didn't kill anyone)
Furio Tigre(he was basically making sure he didn't die by killing Elg)
Godot(killing to save someone else)
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Charles Phipps wrote:
Nice topic. Here's my rebuttal to some of your points.
[/quote]Spoiler: All PW games
Isn't that capital murder, for murder while committing a capital crime (burglary)? But same points.
And
Spoiler:
PEARL DIES TONIGHT
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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et91 wrote:
Furio Tigre(he was basically making sure he didn't die by killing Elg)
The keyword in a self-defence defence is 'reasonable force'. Killing a hitman who's coming to cap you would count. Poisoning a third party to get money to pay off someone who may kill you in the future would not.
Dude committed a cold-blooded murder in support of a theft, to attain something to be sold on the black market, to allow others to commit terrorism. He got the spike.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Note: these all fairly closely follow the Federal Sentencing Guidelines.
Spoiler: all cases
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Kamino Neko wrote:
et91 wrote:
Furio Tigre(he was basically making sure he didn't die by killing Elg)
The keyword in a self-defence defence is 'reasonable force'. Killing a hitman who's coming to cap you would count. Poisoning a third party to get money to pay off someone who may kill you in the future would not.
Dude committed a cold-blooded murder in support of a theft, to attain something to be sold on the black market, to allow others to commit terrorism. He got the spike.
It was either that or he dies. I think the court would understand that part. Life for sure, but not death
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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et91 wrote:
It was either that or he dies. I think the court would understand that part.
Again, no.
Even if the court entertained the idea that that might be a mitigating factor, it wouldn't hold up in light of the rest of the facts of the murder and Tigre's character:
He murdered an unconnected third party, not the person who was going to kill him.
The murder was committed as part of a theft.
The theft of a computer virus, which was sold on the black market, resulting in completely predictable (and, in fact, threatened) chaos.
He is a loan shark, a blackmailer, and a mobster.
If he'd killed Bruto Cadaverini, or the hit-man Cadaverini sent after him, THEN 'if I hadn't done it, I'd have been killed myself' would be a valid mitigating factor. Glen Elg was no threat to him - and in fact, was already a victim of Tigre's crimes, even before he was killed.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Not sure about the AJ villains though (except Kristoph, who is a dead cert for execution).
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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et91 wrote:
Furio Tigre(he was basically making sure he didn't die by killing Elg)
There is a criminal defense for that, called Duress. Basically, if the defendant is threatened to do an unlawful act, and that is proven, then he can escape capital punishment. Thing is, there are a few requirements:
1 - Threat must be of serious bodily harm or death
2 - Harm threatened must be greater than the harm caused by the crime
3 - Threat must be immediate and inescapable
4 - The defendant must have become involved in the situation through no fault of his or her own
As you can see, he fails to fill the second and third requirement: his crime was just as great as his probable punishment(or maybe even greater) and the threat wasn't immediate(he had until December to pay, remember?) or inescapable(all he had to do was pay, and we KNOW he had money to do so).
General Luigi: Nice list.
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Sahwit: 35 years with a giant statue of The Thinker in the middle of his room saying each hour '' I think...that you suck...'' loudly, so he doesn't get much sleep
Redd White: Lifetime, after another court for his huge blackmail. Guards give him one punch a day.
Dee Vasquez: 5 years of jail, for justified self-defense, but a murder is a murder.
Yanni Yogi: Prison for the rest of his life, since he his old. Only eats noodles for the rest of his sentence.
Von Karma: Rest of life too, with a speaker repeating Phoenix's Objection over and over to remind him his ''imperfectness''
Damon Gant: Lifetime, with a screen displaying non-stop his own stare to make him know how he's disturbing when he does that.
Richard Wellington: At least 40 years of prison because of police casualty, eats bananas for all the sentence to remind him to not lose his glasses.
Mimi Miney: 45 years, due to the big accident killing 15 patients, with a little red car toy.
Acro: 20 years. Co-habits with a monkey that steals his food.
Matt Enguarde: Lifetime, with a radio broadcasting De Killer's voice in his jail. Plus, a locked opening on the floor to make him imagine Shelly coming for him from it.
Dahlia Hawthorne: Well...she already has the biggest sentence anyone can get...eternal pathetism *shame...she was beautiful...oh well...Iris is there ;D*
Tigre: Lifetime and a tiger plush in his jail, to f***ing calm him down.
Godot: 25 years. With tea drink only with his meals *OMG!!*
It can happen that my list isn't balanced between the sentences, oh well, guess I tried
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Slash_3-D wrote:
Dee Vasquez: 5 years of jail, for justified self-defense, but a murder is a murder.
I thought the point of justified self defense was that the defendent ends up free, since he didn't actually "murder" someone.
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Waiting For Godot wrote:
Slash_3-D wrote:
Dee Vasquez: 5 years of jail, for justified self-defense, but a murder is a murder.
I thought the point of justified self defense was that the defendent ends up free, since he didn't actually "murder" someone.
Hmm...well said
. Thinking about it, defending ourselves is only part of nature... I'm pretty sure a lot of people would have done the same thing, or similar. I don't think someone would let him/herself get killed, unless you're pretty darn suicidal. 
Objection sustained
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Slash_3-D wrote:
Waiting For Godot wrote:
Slash_3-D wrote:
Dee Vasquez: 5 years of jail, for justified self-defense, but a murder is a murder.
I thought the point of justified self defense was that the defendent ends up free, since he didn't actually "murder" someone.
Hmm...well said
. Thinking about it, defending ourselves is only part of nature... I'm pretty sure a lot of people would have done the same thing, or similar. I don't think someone would let him/herself get killed, unless you're pretty darn suicidal. Objection sustained
Well, lot's of people confuse the term "murder" with killing. Murder is only when the person is aware of the crime(mens rea), has a personal motive to do it and actually does it. For example, Dee Vasquez was not aware of her action(that pushing hime aside could murder Jack Hammer) and she was overpowered(Jack Hammer had a weapon, she didn't).
So it qualifies as self defense.
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Anyway, honestly, about half the killers are going to get the death penalty due to their crimes.
If there was no death penalty:
Spoiler:
PEARL DIES TONIGHT
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
OK GUYS. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS DEBATE AGAIN, SO LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR:
EVERY CRIMINAL IN THE GS SERIES GETS THE DEATH PENALTY, UNLESS THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE IN THE CASE OF ACRO AND DEE.
Examples:
Manfred von Karma: Technically killed only one person. ONE. That's on par with all other normal criminals in the series.
Joe Darke got the death penalty for killing a lot of people.
And furthermore, IT'S NOT EMBELLISHING SOMETHING WHEN YOU ESCAPE DEATH THREE TIMES. I don't understand why you guys don't believe that she's telling the truth.
Hell, even Phoenix talks about how he fights for his clients because it's their lives on the line. Why else would he say that if they weren't going to get the death penalty?
Really guys, they do get it. I don't know how much clearer I have to put it.
EVERY CRIMINAL IN THE GS SERIES GETS THE DEATH PENALTY, UNLESS THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE IN THE CASE OF ACRO AND DEE.
Examples:
Manfred von Karma: Technically killed only one person. ONE. That's on par with all other normal criminals in the series.
Joe Darke got the death penalty for killing a lot of people.
Spoiler: GS3
And furthermore, IT'S NOT EMBELLISHING SOMETHING WHEN YOU ESCAPE DEATH THREE TIMES. I don't understand why you guys don't believe that she's telling the truth.
Hell, even Phoenix talks about how he fights for his clients because it's their lives on the line. Why else would he say that if they weren't going to get the death penalty?
Really guys, they do get it. I don't know how much clearer I have to put it.
Topic Over, yes?
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Spoiler:
PEARL DIES TONIGHT
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
From another thread:
Topic Over, yes?
Phoenix_Apollo wrote:
OK GUYS. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS DEBATE AGAIN, SO LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR:
EVERY CRIMINAL IN THE GS SERIES GETS THE DEATH PENALTY, UNLESS THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE IN THE CASE OF ACRO AND DEE.
Examples:
Manfred von Karma: Technically killed only one person. ONE. That's on par with all other normal criminals in the series.
Joe Darke got the death penalty for killing a lot of people.
And furthermore, IT'S NOT EMBELLISHING SOMETHING WHEN YOU ESCAPE DEATH THREE TIMES. I don't understand why you guys don't believe that she's telling the truth.
Hell, even Phoenix talks about how he fights for his clients because it's their lives on the line. Why else would he say that if they weren't going to get the death penalty?
Really guys, they do get it. I don't know how much clearer I have to put it.
EVERY CRIMINAL IN THE GS SERIES GETS THE DEATH PENALTY, UNLESS THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE IN THE CASE OF ACRO AND DEE.
Examples:
Manfred von Karma: Technically killed only one person. ONE. That's on par with all other normal criminals in the series.
Joe Darke got the death penalty for killing a lot of people.
Spoiler: GS3
And furthermore, IT'S NOT EMBELLISHING SOMETHING WHEN YOU ESCAPE DEATH THREE TIMES. I don't understand why you guys don't believe that she's telling the truth.
Hell, even Phoenix talks about how he fights for his clients because it's their lives on the line. Why else would he say that if they weren't going to get the death penalty?
Really guys, they do get it. I don't know how much clearer I have to put it.
Topic Over, yes?
No, since we're trying to put these sentences to real life. You see, in the PW world, there is no difference between murder and manslaughter for example.
No need to rain on our parade.
Quote:
Sahwit- Life (should be death, but only as it's a capital crime)
Life sentence for voluntary manslaughter and burglary?
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Spoiler: To hide the enormous amount of text here
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
With the exception of Dee and Godot (due to self-defence/defence of others issues), everyone else is gonna have a noose around their neck at somepoint in their future (Acro might get lethal injection/electic chair though, as he's disabled).
Not sure about the AJ villains though (except Kristoph, who is a dead cert for execution).
Not sure about the AJ villains though (except Kristoph, who is a dead cert for execution).
The idea that all PW! cases end up with the death penalty is fanon and really is unsubstantiated. It wouldn't be a plot point for them to pursue death with Lana Skye, if it was standard practice. So let's just kill that rumor where it stands. Dahlia Hawthorne killed 2 people as well, not three and attempted murder for a third (A prosecutor).
Alita Talia as a note, may be able to get off as killing the Doctor in self-defense.
While Japan is a nice guiding line. Officially, PW takes place in Los Angeles so we'll go with that viewpoint.
Now for some possible legal defenses as a note
* Yanni Yogi: Temporary Insanity (Irony at work)
* Manfred Von Karma: Temporary insanity with the murder of Edgeworth's father (almost certainly wouldn't fly given that he never fesses up to it)
* Lana Skye: Duress. Protecting her little sister. Possible Plea Bargaining in the case with Damon Gant.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Charles Phipps wrote:
NinjaMonkey wrote:
With the exception of Dee and Godot (due to self-defence/defence of others issues), everyone else is gonna have a noose around their neck at somepoint in their future (Acro might get lethal injection/electic chair though, as he's disabled).
Not sure about the AJ villains though (except Kristoph, who is a dead cert for execution).
Not sure about the AJ villains though (except Kristoph, who is a dead cert for execution).
The idea that all PW! cases end up with the death penalty is fanon and really is unsubstantiated. It wouldn't be a plot point for them to pursue death with Lana Skye, if it was standard practice. So let's just kill that rumor where it stands. Dahlia Hawthorne killed 2 people as well, not three and attempted murder for a third (A prosecutor).
Alita Talia as a note, may be able to get off as killing the Doctor in self-defense.
While Japan is a nice guiding line. Officially, PW takes place in Los Angeles so we'll go with that viewpoint.
I think you need to get your bearings straight first as this was ORIGINALLY based on the JAPANESE law system here. Only did it translate to English did it switch to your American law system. I'm assuming that we should assume on the Japanese system here which would have reserved death penalty for most of the crimes in the PW cases. I doubt Alita Talia would be able to counter her killing with justified self-defence as she needed to kill him whilst she was being strangled.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Bruce Goldberg wrote:
I think you need to get your bearings straight first as this was ORIGINALLY based on the JAPANESE law system here. Only did it translate to English did it switch to your American law system. I'm assuming that we should assume on the Japanese system here which would have reserved death penalty for most of the crimes in the PW cases. I doubt Alita Talia would be able to counter her killing with justified self-defence as she needed to kill him whilst she was being strangled.
Yes...
And?
Frankly, given that the material doesn't really follow the Japanese legal system save in Drama rules, I think that would be a mistake.
I also think that the danger from the Doctor was still tremendous and a lawyer would argue that if she didn't kill him then he might attempt to finish the job.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Charles Phipps wrote:
The idea that all PW! cases end up with the death penalty is fanon and really is unsubstantiated. It wouldn't be a plot point for them to pursue death with Lana Skye, if it was standard practice. So let's just kill that rumor where it stands.
You keep saying that, but you're completely ignoring the strongest evidence in support of the theory, that being 3-2, where it is outright stated that a man who has comitted only one murder (Atmey) would face capital punishment. Every sentence for murder that the audience is made aware of includes execution. If you can find some evidence that contradicts the assumption other than "most legal systems just don't work that way," then you can "kill that rumor."
In any case, I think this thread needs to clarify whether it's talking about what would happen in an American court or if it means "in the game." The game never talks about how many years a person will be in jail, or first vs second degree murder, etc. So are we explicitly talking about "What the real world would do"?
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Croik wrote:
You keep saying that, but you're completely ignoring the strongest evidence in support of the theory, that being 3-2, where it is outright stated that a man who has comitted only one murder (Atmey) would face capital punishment. Every sentence for murder that the audience is made aware of includes execution. If you can find some evidence that contradicts the assumption other than "most legal systems just don't work that way," then you can "kill that rumor."
In any case, I think this thread needs to clarify whether it's talking about what would happen in an American court or if it means "in the game." The game never talks about how many years a person will be in jail, or first vs second degree murder, etc. So are we explicitly talking about "What the real world would do"?
Even in real life, a premeditated act of murder can theoretically result in a man being charged with capital punishment. However, the general assumption that a person will automatically face the death penalty is something that's going well and beyond the evidence provided.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Croik wrote:
Charles Phipps wrote:
The idea that all PW! cases end up with the death penalty is fanon and really is unsubstantiated. It wouldn't be a plot point for them to pursue death with Lana Skye, if it was standard practice. So let's just kill that rumor where it stands.
You keep saying that, but you're completely ignoring the strongest evidence in support of the theory, that being 3-2, where it is outright stated that a man who has comitted only one murder (Atmey) would face capital punishment. Every sentence for murder that the audience is made aware of includes execution. If you can find some evidence that contradicts the assumption other than "most legal systems just don't work that way," then you can "kill that rumor."
In any case, I think this thread needs to clarify whether it's talking about what would happen in an American court or if it means "in the game." The game never talks about how many years a person will be in jail, or first vs second degree murder, etc. So are we explicitly talking about "What the real world would do"?
Well, actually, with people posting various sentences based on various legal systems, this thread is becoming very interesting IMO. So let's not stay to just one legal system. I may post based on Brazil's legal system sometime soon.
Quote:
I also think that the danger from the Doctor was still tremendous and a lawyer would argue that if she didn't kill him then he might attempt to finish the job.
One of the rules of self defense is that the killer cannot be overpowered. If you think about it, she had a clear adveantage over him, so justified self-defense is ruled out.
On the other hand, the circumstances should guarantee a lighter sentence.
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Waiting For Godot wrote:
Well, actually, with people posting various sentences based on various legal systems, this thread is becoming very interesting IMO. So let's not stay to just one legal system. I may post based on Brazil's legal system sometime soon.
That's fine, I just think it should be clarified that this thread is not about what people think those punishments would be in game canon, because that's been discussed at length in other threads.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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gets off, 
is found 
of murder, but 
of manslaughter. 
is guilty of manslaughter as well,and 
gets off with Duress(if she fills all 4 requirements) I pity the defense attorneys of 
and .
DeKiller is evil. TO THE MAX.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
NOTHING!
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Quote:
I sentence Richard Wellington to a lifetime in my bed, effective immediately
Uhh..no!
Almost EVERYTHING that happens is a random event. Like, how that meteor hit the Earth and killed the dinosaurs? Yeah, that was a random event.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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Godot's case cannot be justified as self-defense, therefore he still gets a harsh punishment. Evidently, it wasn't death.
Dahlia Hawthorne should have been executed at the start of AA-3. EXECUTED I SAY. (I'm going to get a lot of hate from Dahlia fans...)
Here's a thing I'd like to point out(if it was pointed out before, shoot me for not reading the whole topic XD)
Spoiler: AA-2
Now, if you got that ending, wouldn't it be weird to see her at AA-3? XD
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Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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2. Luke Atmey should spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. Prefarable one where he'll be heavily drugged, and the hospital is running distance from my house.
Re: What sentences did each killer recieve?(spoiler)
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General Luigi wrote:
Were I the one determining the sentences...
Note: these all fairly closely follow the Federal Sentencing Guidelines.
Note: these all fairly closely follow the Federal Sentencing Guidelines.
Spoiler: all cases
Probable the most accurate one...
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