Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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, who is mentioned in passing in AJ. This provides the vital clue: the events of 2 and 3 never took place, at least to 
. Here's what happened:After completing 1-4,
goes off to Kurain Village. Just beforehand, however, you try to prove that she isn't entirely useless. This is the key point. If you present the correct evidence (the DL-6 bullet), doesn't think she's entirely useless. Then, when 
comes to Kurain in PW2, mentions 
to him, so goes to Kurain, continuing into PW2.If, however, you present the wrong evidence,
doesn't mention to . So, stays at the office. Case 1-5 then takes place, introducing lots of the important characters of AJ. This is why 1-5 is never mentioned in 2 or 3 - it never happened from that point of view. After this, starts taking on more cases. This eventually leads to the loss of his Badge, and the beginnings of AJ. None of the characters from PW appear in AJ, because they've never heard of in the first place.What this means is that AJ never happened according to PW, and PW2&3 never happened, according to AJ. And, as we know,
possesses a time machine - the MASON System. (Yes, it is a time machine, not just a case file reader - how can you present all that future evidence in the past otherwise?) So, it's in his best interests to load up 1-4's case files, and present the bullet. What would happen then? Perhaps it'll happen in GS5?Thoughts?
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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00Davo wrote:
If, however, you present the wrong evidence, doesn't mention to . So, stays at the office. Case 1-5 then takes place, introducing lots of the important characters of AJ. This is why 1-5 is never mentioned in 2 or 3 - it never happened from that point of view.
doesn't mention to . So, stays at the office. Case 1-5 then takes place, introducing lots of the important characters of AJ. This is why 1-5 is never mentioned in 2 or 3 - it never happened from that point of view.Well... You have to remember that 1-5 was only introduced in GS:YG, which is a remake of the original GS. When Capcom made GS2 and GS3, they had no idea that 1-5 would be created for a remake. Heck, they had no idea that GS would have 3 sequels.
So, basically, Capcom never thought they would make 1-5. Which is why it's never mentioned in GS2 and 3.
"We lie in wait, the human minds are clouded
Initiation of the master plan
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Metaler wrote:
Well... You have to remember that 1-5 was only introduced in GS:YG, which is a remake of the original GS. When Capcom made GS2 and GS3, they had no idea that 1-5 would be created for a remake. Heck, they had no idea that GS would have 3 sequels.
So, basically, Capcom never thought they would make 1-5. Which is why it's never mentioned in GS2 and 3.
So, basically, Capcom never thought they would make 1-5. Which is why it's never mentioned in GS2 and 3.
Yeah, I know that 1-5 was only introduced in the remakes. However,
doesn't. So, he should be mentioning it all the time, because he doesn't know that it was only created in the remake. Therefore, it must never have happened. It makes sense, sorta... Stop complaining! 
... 
Fine. Complain all you like...
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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There's a reference to 2-1 in AJ!
Spoiler: 4-4
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
I'd say
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Unlike 2-1, he was unlikely to have taken 2-3 on his own since it was Maya's fangirling over Max that prompted him.
Ceres, something can be canon and still be alternate-timeline. Think of the Zelda series. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are both canon, but I believe it's been confirmed by the game's staff that they're separate timelines.
Other than the references to 2-1 and 2-3, I think this is a really fascinating theory. Though I don't think the whole "time machine" concept will come into play--if it were a time machine, surely Phoenix would go back in time and stop himself from presenting the fatal diary page.
Edit: I mean within game four, so that the MASON system or any of game four at all would not exist.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Ceres wrote:
This theory is silly, as it's already officially established GS4 is canon.
This. It has also been confirmed that 1-5 is canon. What Capcom says, goes.
Also...
1. Nick had his Magatama in the flashback of case 4-4.
2. There are some other references to JFA and T&T in AJ. Like Laurice's cameo apperance at Sunshine Coliseum.
3. Nick can't travel in time. His spy camera filmed everything and then he remade it into a game so that the jurists could understand what had happened during those 7 years. I know, absurd, but that's how it is.
@ WallOfIllusion: I think Croik said that it has been confirmed that AJ takes place 7 years after T&T and is not an AU.
00Davo wrote:
Yeah, I know that 1-5 was only introduced in the remakes. However, doesn't. So, he should be mentioning it all the time, because he doesn't know that it was only created in the remake. Therefore, it must never have happened. It makes sense, sorta... Stop complaining! ... Fine. Complain all you like...
doesn't. So, he should be mentioning it all the time, because he doesn't know that it was only created in the remake. Therefore, it must never have happened. It makes sense, sorta... Stop complaining! ... Fine. Complain all you like...It's not like the series LITERARY takes place in an alternate universe - it's completely made up, fictional. A plot hole is just a plot hole.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Acroma v2.0 wrote:
During the Mason segment, if you examine the bench in the defense lobby, Phoenix talks about how he napped on it once and then something happened, leading him to decide the bench was unlucky.
Napping on the benches was so dangerous, that something bad happened to Phoenix when he did so in the alternate reality too! The refs to past games are so vague they can all be explained away easily.
This is a good theory. It's even better than 'the miracle never happen'.
Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
1. Nick had his Magatama in the flashback of case 4-4.
Maya gave him a magatama anyway for saving her in 1-2?
Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
2. There are some other references to JFA and T&T in AJ. Like Laurice's cameo apperance at Sunshine Coliseum.
Larry existed in game 1! The others are so slight they can be easily explained as something else or just knowing things which happened anyway (like Phoenix finding out about Diego and the coffee a different way.)
Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
3. Nick can't travel in time. His spy camera filmed everything and then he remade it into a game
I don't think Phoenix literally made or presented the Mason System 'game', any more than there's huge buttons in court for when he wants to present evidence or shout 'Objection'. To start with, I don't think he even has the skills...
Is it true that Capcom explicitly stated this is definitely not an AU/possible alternate timeline? (Evidence please!)
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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To be more specific, AJ is the "the miracle never happen" universe. In the bad ending of 2-4....
Spoiler: 2-4
So yeah, that's my crack theory.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Enough said.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Gerkuman wrote:
It's all rubbish created by deluded people who can't bring themselves to count AJ as true and proper canon.
Enough said.
Enough said.
I suppose so...
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Gerkuman wrote:
It's all rubbish created by deluded people who can't bring themselves to count AJ as true and proper canon.
Enough said.
Enough said.
I have little problem with counting AJ as canon. My problem lies with 1-5's canon-ness and their clumsy, clumsy retcon of when Edgeworth left. My anger extends to AJ because they chose to shove 1-5 in our faces throughout the game when (in my own opinion) they should have cut their losses and made 1-5 a non-canon bonus case.
Since they didn't, I look to other sources for explanations. Excepting the Magatama (good point, Jojje), the lines that have to be ignored for this theory to work neatly are surely less significant than changing the time of Edgeworth's departure.
Like icer, I am curious to see proof that Capcom stated that AJ is definitely not alternate timeline. If so, I will of course observe that and be stuck with the disrespect I feel for them for the retcon.
(Why yes, I am aware that I am excessively incensed by 1-5. No, I don't ever plan to change my views.)
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
I'd say
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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You can simply just ignore 1-5 he you want to, make it personal dis-continuity. :) And the people who hate AJ can ignore it too, if they want to. Them everyone will be happy.
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Oh, here. Look for Croik's post.
. . . I know it doesn't really prove anything, but I don't think she's lying.
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Ceres wrote:
This theory is silly, as it's already officially established GS4 is canon.
At which point have (am I the defense or prosecution?) suggested that GS4 is not canon? All the (are you the prosecution or defense?)'s evidence... is circumstantial. The (are you the prosecution or defense?) have no basis for deeming the (am I the defense or prosecution?)'s theory "silly".
: Objection sustained. Mr. Ceres, please try to put more thought into your objections. *penalty bar booms*
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
I'd say
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If it was GS3 Nobody would bother with these Crackpot theories, But with GS4 It's True untill proven otherwise? pfff, As I said Silly reasoning.
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Ceres wrote:
If it was GS3 Nobody would bother with these Crackpot theories, But with GS4 It's True untill proven otherwise? pfff, As I said Silly reasoning.
But this would mean that games 2 and 3 didn't exist in this reality, so the crackpot theory is dealing with GS3. Nobody says GS3 is an alternate reality to, say GS2, because it's so obviously a continuation. Game 4 was too surreal and the writers only really took 1-5 into account as a backstory, therefore it kind of does have the feel of being with it in its own AU rather than what we'd expect after game 3.
Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
@ WallOfIllusion and icer:
Oh, here. Look for Croik's post.
. . . I know it doesn't really prove anything, but I don't think she's lying.
Oh, here. Look for Croik's post.
. . . I know it doesn't really prove anything, but I don't think she's lying.
Of course she's not lying. But people can make assumptions or extrapolate. So if the creators said there's no possibility that game 4 could be some kind of alternate reality, I'd like to see it. Of course, the official line never is going to be that it is AU, but the way the 1-5 plot, themes and characters are the only references really taken into plot consideration and characterisation in game 4 from the Phoenix trilogy mean that this is kind of a reasonable theory - and one which explains most of the plot and characterisation holes in that game.
Gerkuman wrote:
The thing is, some people will use this theory to shunt Polly out the way, so they can get Nick back.
But Apollo gets to rule his own alternate universe!
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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1. There were "familiar characters" that debuted in AA besides Maya. Don't Edgeworth and Gumshoe count? I agree that making Maya feel useless could lead to not having 2-2, but I doubt that would cause all contact between them to cease, and then you still don't know what happened to Gumshoe and Edgeworth.
1b. Before you say for Edgeworth that he had left, he then returned because of events independent of Maya not being there.
2. Franzy. Franzy comes because of 1-4, which is canon is both timelines. So she should be mentioned or make an appearance in the alternate timeline.
3. Godot. Godot came because of 3-1 and 3-4, which was chronologically before AA. Sure you could take away 3-1 and 3-4, but then Phoenix doesn't become a lawyer.
4. Magatama, as its been said. And icer, Phoenix did not get a magatama in 1-2.
5. The argument itself. You say that he doesn't refer to the events of GS2 and GS3 because they never happened in GS4, and other events happened instead. So then why does he not refer to these "other events"?
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Back to just being annoyed at 1-5 for me, then.
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Bad Player wrote:
2. Franzy. Franzy comes because of 1-4, which is canon is both timelines. So she should be mentioned or make an appearance in the alternate timeline.
Franzy is never mentioned in game 4, so maybe in the AU she doesn't come because of 1-4. 1-4 is in both timelines, Franziska coming isn't. Isn't the date of Edgeworth leaving and when Franzy notices/comes some kind of plothole or inconsistency with 1-5 anyway? [I don't remember.]
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3. Godot. Godot came because of 3-1 and 3-4, which was chronologically before AA. Sure you could take away 3-1 and 3-4, but then Phoenix doesn't become a lawyer.
3-1 and 3-4 are in the past, so they could have happened pre-game 1 in both AUs. Besides, Godot himself is never mentioned in game 4, it's just mentioned that there was a case where somebody had poisoned coffee, doesn't even say who or their relation to any of the cast.
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4. Magatama, as its been said. And icer, Phoenix did not get a magatama in 1-2.
If Phoenix didn't present Maya the bullet, maybe she wouldn't immediately see that he thought she was valuable beyond channelling Mia, but they would still be friends and she would be extremely grateful to him for saving her life in 1-2. So in that AU, maybe sometime she gives him a gift of a magatama, just like she did in 2-2.
Quote:
5. The argument itself. You say that he doesn't refer to the events of GS2 and GS3 because they never happened in GS4, and other events happened instead. So then why does he not refer to these "other events"?
He does. 1-5 is metioned ad nauseum.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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icer wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
2. Franzy. Franzy comes because of 1-4, which is canon is both timelines. So she should be mentioned or make an appearance in the alternate timeline.
Franzy is never mentioned in game 4, so maybe in the AU she doesn't come because of 1-4. 1-4 is in both timelines, Franziska coming isn't. Isn't the date of Edgeworth leaving and when Franzy notices/comes some kind of plothole or inconsistency with 1-5 anyway? [I don't remember.]
I'm pretty sure it's not.
But Franzy would have to come back because of 1-4. According to Davo, the timeline splits because of not presenting the DL-6 bullet. Assuming that's the only thing that's changed, then Franzy should still come back because that present has nothing to do with her.
Quote:
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3. Godot. Godot came because of 3-1 and 3-4, which was chronologically before AA. Sure you could take away 3-1 and 3-4, but then Phoenix doesn't become a lawyer.
3-1 and 3-4 are in the past, so they could have happened pre-game 1 in both AUs. Besides, Godot himself is never mentioned in game 4, it's just mentioned that there was a case where somebody had poisoned coffee, doesn't even say who or their relation to any of the cast.[/quote]
Davo was suggesting there was an alternate timeline because important characters, such as Godot, weren't referenced to. You just admitted that he very well could've appeared in the alternate timeline, meaning he should've been referenced to.
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4. Magatama, as its been said. And icer, Phoenix did not get a magatama in 1-2.
If Phoenix didn't present Maya the bullet, maybe she wouldn't immediately see that he thought she was valuable beyond channelling Mia, but they would still be friends and she would be extremely grateful to him for saving her life in 1-2. So in that AU, maybe sometime she gives him a gift of a magatama, just like she did in 2-2.
Perhaps. But then they would have contact, and she would have been mentioned in GS4, wouldn't she?
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5. The argument itself. You say that he doesn't refer to the events of GS2 and GS3 because they never happened in GS4, and other events happened instead. So then why does he not refer to these "other events"?
He does. 1-5 is metioned ad nauseum.
1-5 does not constitute the "other events"; the "other events" are the events that happened in place of GS2 and GS3. Plus, wouldn't he mention more than one case?
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Bad Player wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's not. But Franzy would have to come back because of 1-4. According to Davo, the timeline splits because of not presenting the DL-6 bullet. Assuming that's the only thing that's changed, then Franzy should still come back because that present has nothing to do with her.
'a butterfly flaps its wings and..'
I'm almost sure that Franziska is involved in the whole time inconsistency thing. I saw a thread or post about it here once. And she comes back for 2-2, not 2-1. 2-2 won't happen because Maya doesn't desire Phoenix as the one thing she wants to see.
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Davo was suggesting there was an alternate timeline because important characters, such as Godot, weren't referenced to. You just admitted that he very well could've appeared in the alternate timeline, meaning he should've been referenced to.
How can you argue that Godot should have been referenced to if it's an AU? The fact is that he is not referenced in GS4, whether or not you see the timeline as an AU or not. Godot could have existed in the past in either timeline, but his interactions with Phoenix in game 3 aka 3-2, 3-3, 3-5 which were the segments in the 'present' - didn't occur in the AU. So Phoenix never met him. The fact that Diego and Mia worked together in the past, with the causal chain of events leading to Mia defending Phoenix, could be an unchanged past event pre- 1-1 without requiring the 'present day' action of game 3 to ever occur.
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but they would still be friends and she would be extremely grateful to him for saving her life in 1-2. So in that AU, maybe sometime she gives him a gift of a magatama, just like she did in 2-2.
Perhaps. But then they would have contact, and she would have been mentioned in GS4, wouldn't she?
Perhaps. But then they would have contact, and she would have been mentioned in GS4, wouldn't she?
Uh, I don't get your argument here. 'Have Contact?' "Mentioned in GS4?' In GS4, Maya sends Phoenix some DVDs. This is her sole mention, which you assume takes place after game 2 and 3, but somehow you think AU Maya would have to be 'mentioned' or have greater 'contact'? I can imagine sending DVDs very well from Maya in the AU where she remains Phoenix's friend after 1-4 but games 2 and 3 don't happen.
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1-5 does not constitute the "other events"; the "other events" are the events that happened in place of GS2 and GS3. Plus, wouldn't he mention more than one case?
Phoenix never mentions any of the cases of game 2 and 3 in any meaningful fashion at all. Besides, maybe the cases in the AU scenario were more boring and forgettable, or the references are as obscure and we don't notice them. He's disbarred, so maybe he doesn't like to reminisce too deeply about his lawyer cases. It's not like he ever offers to tell Apollo his life story.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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icer wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's not. But Franzy would have to come back because of 1-4. According to Davo, the timeline splits because of not presenting the DL-6 bullet. Assuming that's the only thing that's changed, then Franzy should still come back because that present has nothing to do with her.
'a butterfly flaps its wings and..'
I'm almost sure that Franziska is involved in the whole time inconsistency thing. I saw a thread or post about it here once. And she comes back for 2-2, not 2-1. 2-2 won't happen because Maya doesn't desire Phoenix as the one thing she wants to see.
Iunno about the time inconsistency.
Franzy doesn't prosecute 2-2 because she has a grudge against Maya or anything. She just wants to beat Phoenix, no matter what case it is. Because of 1-4 (and 1-5, I guess) she would've come over and tried to beat Phoenix at the other cases he was defending in. So she wouldn't prosecute against Phoenix in State v. Fey or State v. Galactica, but she would prosecute in other cases.
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Davo was suggesting there was an alternate timeline because important characters, such as Godot, weren't referenced to. You just admitted that he very well could've appeared in the alternate timeline, meaning he should've been referenced to.
How can you argue that Godot should have been referenced to if it's an AU? The fact is that he is not referenced in GS4, whether or not you see the timeline as an AU or not. Godot could have existed in the past in either timeline, but his interactions with Phoenix in game 3 aka 3-2, 3-3, 3-5 which were the segments in the 'present' - didn't occur in the AU. So Phoenix never met him. The fact that Diego and Mia worked together in the past, with the causal chain of events leading to Mia defending Phoenix, could be an unchanged past event pre- 1-1 without requiring the 'present day' action of game 3 to ever occur.
If AA, 3-1, and 3-4 all occur, then Diego would feel the exact same thing when he wakes up in the AU as he would in GS3, so he would do the exact same thing. Again, he wouldn't prosecute in State v. DeLite, State v. Byrde (appeal) or State v. ...Iris(?), but he would prosecute against Phoenix.
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but they would still be friends and she would be extremely grateful to him for saving her life in 1-2. So in that AU, maybe sometime she gives him a gift of a magatama, just like she did in 2-2.
Perhaps. But then they would have contact, and she would have been mentioned in GS4, wouldn't she?
Perhaps. But then they would have contact, and she would have been mentioned in GS4, wouldn't she?
Uh, I don't get your argument here. 'Have Contact?' "Mentioned in GS4?' In GS4, Maya sends Phoenix some DVDs. This is her sole mention, which you assume takes place after game 2 and 3, but somehow you think AU Maya would have to be 'mentioned' or have greater 'contact'? I can imagine sending DVDs very well from Maya in the AU where she remains Phoenix's friend after 1-4 but games 2 and 3 don't happen.
All right
But someone (I forget who and where, and I'm too lazy to check) suggested that they weren't sent by Maya. The DVDs also probably don't have too much of a connection to whether it was AU or not...Quote:
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1-5 does not constitute the "other events"; the "other events" are the events that happened in place of GS2 and GS3. Plus, wouldn't he mention more than one case?
Phoenix never mentions any of the cases of game 2 and 3 in any meaningful fashion at all. Besides, maybe the cases in the AU scenario were more boring and forgettable, or the references are as obscure and we don't notice them. He's disbarred, so maybe he doesn't like to reminisce too deeply about his lawyer cases. It's not like he ever offers to tell Apollo his life story.
If he doesn't like to reminisce then why keep a bottle of powder for 10 years and have it right there for easy access? Plus, as it was pointed out, there were references to 2-1, 2-3, and 3-3 in AJ. It would highly unlikely to have 3 cases that could be refenced in that fashion... (especially the 2-3 reference)
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Bad Player wrote:
If AA, 3-1, and 3-4 all occur, then Diego would feel the exact same thing when he wakes up in the AU as he would in GS3, so he would do the exact same thing. Again, he wouldn't prosecute in State v. DeLite, State v. Byrde (appeal) or State v. ...Iris(?), but he would prosecute against Phoenix.
His prosecution against Phoenix was largely connected with the upcoming Dahlia plot against Maya which he knew about. If Maya wasn't with Phoenix, he would be less likely to negatively involve himself with Phoenix. When Diego woke up, since Phoenix is NOT CLOSELY CONNECTED still with the Feys, he'd be less likely to redirect his anger at himself into scapegoat Phoenix, since Phoenix isn't conveniently there oblivious to Maya Fey who will now be killed before his oblivious eyes as well. Regardless, if game 4, occurring after game 3, doesn't mention Godot, why would game 4, after AU timeline, mention him, even if he prosecuted case/s against Phoenix?
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If he doesn't like to reminisce then why keep a bottle of powder for 10 years and have it right there for easy access? Plus, as it was pointed out, there were references to 2-1, 2-3, and 3-3 in AJ. It would highly unlikely to have 3 cases that could be refenced in that fashion... (especially the 2-3 reference)
The powder was from 1-5, the only case which gets meaningful reference from the past. Which proves the point of this theory.
The references to other cases were so minor they could easily be ignored or reinterpreted.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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How does it make it non-canon if its an alternate timeline? Is most of the Zelda series noncanon then?
Anyways, I'd rather consider it after 2-4's bad ending that AJ happened. That explains the magatama and why Phoenix and Maya aren't in touch. And it explains Phoenix's huge change in character.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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icer wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
If AA, 3-1, and 3-4 all occur, then Diego would feel the exact same thing when he wakes up in the AU as he would in GS3, so he would do the exact same thing. Again, he wouldn't prosecute in State v. DeLite, State v. Byrde (appeal) or State v. ...Iris(?), but he would prosecute against Phoenix.
His prosecution against Phoenix was largely connected with the upcoming Dahlia plot against Maya which he knew about. If Maya wasn't with Phoenix, he would be less likely to negatively involve himself with Phoenix. When Diego woke up, since Phoenix is NOT CLOSELY CONNECTED still with the Feys, he'd be less likely to redirect his anger at himself into scapegoat Phoenix, since Phoenix isn't conveniently there oblivious to Maya Fey who will now be killed before his oblivious eyes as well.
This really depends on your interpretation of Godot, which is a whole 'nother debate that we probably shouldn't get into.
Quote:
Regardless, if game 4, occurring after game 3, doesn't mention Godot, why would game 4, after AU timeline, mention him, even if he prosecuted case/s against Phoenix?
'Cause.
Quote:
Quote:
If he doesn't like to reminisce then why keep a bottle of powder for 10 years and have it right there for easy access? Plus, as it was pointed out, there were references to 2-1, 2-3, and 3-3 in AJ. It would highly unlikely to have 3 cases that could be refenced in that fashion... (especially the 2-3 reference)
The powder was from 1-5, the only case which gets meaningful reference from the past. Which proves the point of this theory.
The references to other cases were so minor they could easily be ignored or reinterpreted.
I would like to just point out that the bottle of powder was not just something they randomly decided to include. The finger/toe-printing was important in the case, plus it provided a plausible reason for why grumpy Ema would let a bunch of random kids into a crime scene. So yes, 1-5 had a more definite reference, but it's not because they wanted to stress 1-5.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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WallofIllusion wrote:
Hm. Croik seems pretty certain.
Back to just being annoyed at 1-5 for me, then.
Back to just being annoyed at 1-5 for me, then.
But why? Just wondering. Clumsy retcon, yeah, but I think the case is great. I wish it had another prosecutor instead of Edgeworth, though.
Also, there was another reference to T&T in AJ - what appears to be Larry can be seen in the background of Sunshine Coliseum. Twice. Once in his "normal" outfit and once dressed up like in 3-5. Larry wouldn't become Laurice if it weren't for the events of 3-2. I'm almost certain it's him.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
Also, there was another reference to T&T in AJ - what appears to be Larry can be seen in the background of Sunshine Coliseum. Twice. Once in his "normal" outfit and once dressed up like in 3-5. Larry wouldn't become Laurice if it weren't for the events of 3-2. I'm almost certain it's him.
But, if Larry was in his normal outfit in Sunshine Coliseum, that means he hadn't become Laurice yet. Which means that 3-2 hadn't happened yet. Which means that 3-2 needs to happen between 4-3 and 4-4 somehow, so that he can become Laurice later. Which means that GS4 would need to take place during GS3, between 3-2 and 3-5.
Because GS4 cannot possibly take place during GS3 under regular conditions, there must be an alternate timeline or similar. The only other possibility is that
goes through the Magnifi trial after 3-2, becomes , goes through all of GS4, and then regains his Badge ready for 3-3, which is, quite frankly, absurd.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
WallofIllusion wrote:
Hm. Croik seems pretty certain.
Back to just being annoyed at 1-5 for me, then.
Back to just being annoyed at 1-5 for me, then.
But why? Just wondering. Clumsy retcon, yeah, but I think the case is great. I wish it had another prosecutor instead of Edgeworth, though.
It's not even the case itself--I enjoy the case--it's the attitude of the people who developed it, who decided that they could come in and do whatever they want to a pretty darn significant event of the timeline. As someone who tends to adhere semi-religiously to canon, I find it kind of disrespectful that the higher-ups would make such a change. Of course, they're higher-ups, so they can do whatever they want... I just wish they hadn't.
If the case had a different prosecutor, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever.
"A truthful witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies." Proverbs 14:5. Straight from the Bible, folks~ XD
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Seeing as 1-5 is continually referenced in AJ, then 1-5 is itself canon. And I'm 100% sure that one of the execs at Capcom said that AJ didn't exist in an alternate universe, but rather follows on from Phoenix's trilogy after a break of 7 years (I don't have a source, but I'm sure this is true).
Therefore, any dual timeline theory (such as in the LoZ games) is a complete load of crock.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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00Davo wrote:
Jojje Cadaverini wrote:
Also, there was another reference to T&T in AJ - what appears to be Larry can be seen in the background of Sunshine Coliseum. Twice. Once in his "normal" outfit and once dressed up like in 3-5. Larry wouldn't become Laurice if it weren't for the events of 3-2. I'm almost certain it's him.
But, if Larry was in his normal outfit in Sunshine Coliseum, that means he hadn't become Laurice yet. Which means that 3-2 hadn't happened yet. Which means that 3-2 needs to happen between 4-3 and 4-4 somehow, so that he can become Laurice later. Which means that GS4 would need to take place during GS3, between 3-2 and 3-5.
Because GS4 cannot possibly take place during GS3 under regular conditions, there must be an alternate timeline or similar. The only other possibility is that
goes through the Magnifi trial after 3-2, becomes , goes through all of GS4, and then regains his Badge ready for 3-3, which is, quite frankly, absurd.No.
Larry was Laurice in 7 Years Ago SC, and in his normal clothes in Regular SC. 7YASC was a few months after 3-5, so he apparently was still Laurice. Then (knowing Larry) he probably got tired of that, and reverted back to his normal clothes sometime over the next 7 years. Or he decided that he didn't want to wear his dirty smock on a date. Contrary to what it may seem, people do not wear the same clothes every single day forever.
Also, Larry became Laurice because of 3-2. 3-2 wouldn't have happened unless the good 2-4 ending happened. 2-4 would only happen if you present the DL-6 bullet to Maya. There ain't an alternate timeline.
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Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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Bad Player wrote:
what appears to be Larry can be seen in the background of Sunshine Coliseum. Twice. Once in his "normal" outfit and once dressed up like in 3-5. Larry wouldn't become Laurice if it weren't for the events of 3-2. I'm almost certain it's him.
Larry is an easter egg. It happens all the time. Characters from related games appear in the background of a scene, it doesn't mean their in-game reality really altered to them one day appearing in the background of another game...Larry was so tiny that people didn't even notice him till ages after GS4 was released. In fact, several times on this forum when I'm claimed that's Larry, people haven't believed me.
Anyway, we don't know he's 'Laurice', we simply know he took up art in that reality also and had similar fashion sense. And then reverted to some ancient 10-year-old outfit like we saw in GS1.
Quote:
So yes, 1-5 had a more definite reference, but it's not because they wanted to stress 1-5.
1-5 had countless references, and it was because they wanted to stress 1-5. They made 1-5 and it was the main reality they were backreferencing for Phoenix's character- it was even kind of a pilot for game 4.
Of course there's no 'official' alternate timeline. But the reality in the writers' heads when they were writing GS4 was most obviously the world of 1-5 and little else. They took game 1 into account when writing 1-5, so that's part of their reality they reference, but it's largely a different team than who wrote game 2 or 3 and the imaginative reality the writers tap into for plot and characterisation uses 1-5 and to some extent game 1 as their only meaningful backstory or events which have any real bearing on the characters. Therefore, you can argue that in a way it was written as an alternate reality, since the writers took a different account of Phoenix's reality into account when writing game 4, which put little to no weight on events of game 2 and 3.
LOL parody sig trend. Phoenix/Maya Day is Sept 5!
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Last edited by icer on Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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DramaticaXIV2 wrote:
He still could have took that case, just without Maya and looked into it himself.
Then who the hell gave him the Magatama?
No, just no. These dual timeline theories may be interesting, but it's not canon, and AJ refers to PW2&, not only once.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
What is my liiiife?!?
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Quote:
different account of Phoenix's reality into account when writing game 4
Of course! How silly of me to have forgotten that the games were re-titled.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Dependant - Maya and Edgeworth do everything.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Dependant - Iris/Nick OTP, while Maya and Edgeworth do everything.
/sarcasm
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
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ITT people who have differing views and theories talk down to each other until one side shuts up.
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
I'd say
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Don't take it too seriously, it's all shits & giggles. :P
Re: Dual Timeline Theory *very possible spoilers for all games*
What is my liiiife?!?
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But seriously, did you know other sites consider us a broken fanbase over this issue? I'm being totally serious. I wish there was some way for all us to meet in the middle. Because neither side is conceeding anything. :(
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