Board index » Phoenix Wright » Defendant's Lobby

Page 1 of 3[ 86 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 


Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

avatar made by Lunaria42. <3

Gender: Female

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Posts: 277

Is Phoenix Wright actually a good lawyer? I noticed in like every case, someone has to lead him through it.

Spoiler: not sure if this is spoiler or not...
Usually at the end of a case, Phoenix is all 'I can't prove it' and the surprise! Mia pops up.

I think it would be a more surprise ending if Mia didn't pop up, and Phoenix actually solved it on his own... >>


Also...

Spoiler: 1-5
How is it that Phoenix doesn't know basic lawyer things, like evidence law? What did he learn at law school? O.o


And so many times, Phoenix has just bluffed his way through cases until the very very end.

So, is he an actual good lawyer? I haven't played AJ yet, so I don't know how he acts in that...
Discuss.
Image
Signature by Purple Angel.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title

Gender: Female

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:43 pm

Posts: 41

depends on what you are asking really, one argument is that his record stands for itself, as you've not played AJ I'll leave it at the original trilogy when Phoenix is seen to be undefeated until 2-4 which he loses in pursuit of justice, in what are perceived as hopeless cases.

Phoenix does have help but he also makes a fair few deductions, however some of the games tension comes from the feeling of helplessness or bluffing to buy time and it is clear some view Phoenix as lucky rather than talented until the end of T&T

Of course in the real world Phoenix would need to know the technicalities of criminal law and evidence gathering or he would not get very far. However a realistic depiction of the finer points of law wouldn't be an enjoyable game.

So it depends on what you judge him against really
Image

Sig made by the talented Trabztress, thank you!
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Attorney at Lawl

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:46 pm

Posts: 167

Phoenix has his moments. He believes in his clients to the bitter end and that's what makes him a good lawyer.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title

AKA Dr. Bokchoy

Gender: Male

Location: Ontario, Canada

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 12:44 pm

Posts: 3035

Technically, all he ever does is find someone else guilty. Even though I suppose that still counts as defending your client, it's very, very unlikely for real courts to find the actual criminal the way Phoenix does. Real defence attorneys spend time making a strong defence for their clients, that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the defendant is not guilty. Phoenix doesn't really do anything of the sort-- he relies purely on evidence he scrounges from the crime scenes, and, as you said, bluffing. So, in actuality, he's not a very good defence attorney. He's more like... an 'offence' attorney, if you will.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title

OBJECTION!

Gender: Male

Location: St. Albans, England, UK

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:18 am

Posts: 2603

In the PW world, it's more like the DA (Phoenix) proves the real criminal is guilty, ergo, your client/the defendant must be innocent.
Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

...Hopefully someday... xD

Gender: None specified

Location: Suomi, Finland, Perkele!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:05 pm

Posts: 3393

Actually pretty interesting question :yuusaku:
He has been quite lucky at least twice in each case...
Image
ImageImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

てもでもの涙

Gender: Female

Location: Zamrud Khatulistiwa

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:11 am

Posts: 137

Actually, it depends on how we play him as lawyer. :franny:

Haha, I'm kidding. In fact, I doubt that he would do good if Maya or Pearls (for the channeling) hadn't been there for him. Magatama too, of course.
Image
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:16 pm

Posts: 128

It's also mentionworthy that two lawyers have already considered his abilities bad.
Spoiler: T&T, specially 3-5
Godot is pretty assured that Phoenix is a terrible lawyer and person until the end of 3-5, when Phoenix does the SUPER OBJECTION.

Spoiler: 4-4
Also, Kristoph calls Phoenix "a second-rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs" near the end of AJ.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

...Hopefully someday... xD

Gender: None specified

Location: Suomi, Finland, Perkele!

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:05 pm

Posts: 3393

Prosecutor Scorpion wrote:
It's also mentionworthy that two lawyers have already considered his abilities bad.
Spoiler: T&T, specially 3-5
Godot is pretty assured that Phoenix is a terrible lawyer and person until the end of 3-5, when Phoenix does the SUPER OBJECTION.

Spoiler: 4-4
Also, Kristoph calls Phoenix "a second-rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs" near the end of AJ.

That 3-5 can propably be explained yhis way:
- When 3-5 BOSS (k?) lost and was...Oh forget it...I can't explain what I mean with these english skills.... -_-'

The other one...Sadly: It's true.
Nicky is one lucky bluff ^^
Image
ImageImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Hello, Adrian.

Gender: Male

Location: Unknown

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:05 am

Posts: 519

Zinle wrote:
- When 3-5 BOSS (k?) lost and was...Oh forget it...I can't explain what I mean with these english skills.... -_-'

You mean that Godot was the boss over T&T, like in Zelda? :redd:
Also, i think that this subject can bring up the differences between Apollo and Phoenix.
Phoenix relies on luck, while Apollo knows faster what's going on.
Image
Mostly a lurker now. I used to be active once upon a time.
Thank you PandaPrinzessin for the sig and avy, I love them!
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

tell me if you know a better one.

Gender: Male

Location: here on this place.

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:03 pm

Posts: 170

Spiker wrote:
Phoenix has his moments. He believes in his clients to the bitter end and that's what makes him a good lawyer.

yes he's right and phoenix learn things on the lawschool but he is forget them.
always remeber 2 things.
1. rules are made to be broken.
2. risk are there to be taken
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: None specified

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:09 am

Posts: 73

Polly once said that:

Quote:
:odoroki: :...and with clients like Mr. Wright, who needs prosecutors?


Phoenix does his defenses out of the box. Instead of proving the innocence of his client, he proves the guilt of another.
Image
The Apollo Justice Appreciation Thread
The Awesome Signature is brought to you by the The Vickinator
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title

Two more games coming up soon

Gender: Male

Location: Paris

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:45 pm

Posts: 929

Prosecutor Scorpion wrote:
It's also mentionworthy that two lawyers have already considered his abilities bad.
Spoiler: T&T, specially 3-5
Godot is pretty assured that Phoenix is a terrible lawyer and person until the end of 3-5, when Phoenix does the SUPER OBJECTION.

Spoiler: 4-4
Also, Kristoph calls Phoenix "a second-rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs" near the end of AJ.

>
Spoiler: 1-4, 2-4, 3-5, 4-4
Still, as you said yourself, Godot changes his mind at the end of the game. As for Kristoph, he's obviously jealous of Phoenix's natural talent - and quite understandably, since he manages to outwit his friend almost effortlessly. While Kristoph has probably read millions of law books, Phoenix simply "bluffs his way through victory". Besides, Phoenix has amazing improvisation as well as deduction skills, as shown in 1-4 (Larry's testimony...) and 2-4 (showing De Killer the tape). AJ's Xanatos Roulette also shows his incredible fore-planning abilities. Finally, his record speaks for itself. While Phoenix certainly is one of the luckiest characters in the game, I think he also deserves to be recognized as a good lawyer.

Creator of Apollo Justice Case 5: Turnabout Substitution: Trailer - Download
Co-creator of New Year's Turnabout, Turnabout Revolution, and At Dawn's Break
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Pinball Music Fanatic

Gender: Male

Location: Bavaria, Germany

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:46 pm

Posts: 123

I surely wouldn't like to have Phoenix as my lawyer. I don't like to die of a heart attack in my trial. Overall, Phoenix is an above-average lawyer with the ability to get the most screwed up theories to make sense and to win even the most screwed up cases. But he really sometimes just switches his brains off.
Spoiler: 1-4
I mean, COME ON! You show the one piece of incriminating evidence the one person it incriminates. You basically are alone (Maya don't count) in a room with a very evil person armed with a tazer (I know Phoenix didn't know that, but still, one has to expect that with a person like Manfred) and you have almost no means of defending yourself. Great idea, pal!

The only thing that makes him a good lawyer is his belief in his clients.

The McD
CR's resident pinball music fanatic. Also a nutcase.
Image
Signature and avatar made by the incredible Biblio.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Hello, Adrian.

Gender: Male

Location: Unknown

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:05 am

Posts: 519

TheMcD wrote:
The only thing that makes him a good lawyer is his belief in his clients.
The McD

That's pretty interesting, because
Spoiler:
Robert Hammond did the opposite, he defended for his own sake and did'nt care much for his clients and I think Grossberg mentions that Hammond actually was a good defense attorney?

Image
Mostly a lurker now. I used to be active once upon a time.
Thank you PandaPrinzessin for the sig and avy, I love them!
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Pinball Music Fanatic

Gender: Male

Location: Bavaria, Germany

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:46 pm

Posts: 123

Xray wrote:
TheMcD wrote:
The only thing that makes him a good lawyer is his belief in his clients.
The McD

That's pretty interesting, because
Spoiler:
Robert Hammond did the opposite, he defended for his own sake and did'nt care much for his clients and I think Grossberg mentions that Hammond actually was a good defense attorney?


But in the end he did end up dead. Well, the thing is it's very probably better for a lawyer to believe in his client. Kind of gives him a boost in the direction of "I know this guy is innocent, I just have to prove it! But that's not a problem since he is innocent!" We don't know enough about Hammond to actually make too many statements. The opposite of course is true for a prosecutor. If Phoenix wasn't so confident in his clients in the first game, he probably would have lost all cases to Edgeworth.

The McD
CR's resident pinball music fanatic. Also a nutcase.
Image
Signature and avatar made by the incredible Biblio.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 am

Posts: 144

Godot believes pheonix isn't a good lawyer...
Spoiler: 3-5
That's why he challanges pheonix in 3-5. Godot says "I don't think much of you as a lawyer. You always have some girl come in at the last minute to save you." Or something to that affect. Anyway, he challenges pheonix to do defend his client without the help of Mia, and he pulls it off. This earns godot and mia's respect at the end of the case. Mia even claims tht Pheonix surpassed her. During the games we see his development as a lawyer, so 1-4 with his grasping, to 3-5 with his deductions show how the experience he gains improve his skills. Basically, he's not great based on the first game, but come T&T he is.

Spoiler: 4-4
Then he gets tricked into presenting forged evidence and loses his badge a few months later :nick-sweat:

ImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Licensed Smartass

Gender: Male

Location: Israel

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm

Posts: 16

It's difficult to judge how good Phoenix actually is at being an attorney. Most of the cases we see him take are hopeless causes that other lawyers stay away from, and most of them have a complicated story behind them. Plus, while Mia (or Maya) almost always comes through in the end with some helpful advice, it tends to be something more ephemeral. Rather then actually telling you what to do, she tells Phoenix to "think outside the box", or not to give up. At which point he solves the case.

We also have the fact that he seems to rely on bluff and trickery a great deal of the time to close the case. On the other hand, he does have the nearly impossible task of proving his client innocent beyond any shadow of a doubt, (which is what the judge always seems to require). Sure, the magatama is a helpful trick, but beyond channeling Mia (which isn't as useful as it seems normally), Maya is more useful for general hunches and humor.

While he does have a bit more extra help then most lawyers, I think we can safely call Phoenix an "Ace Attorney".
So, I've been giving this egg business a shot. Click for glory!

Spoiler: Eggs and Hatchlings
Image Image Image Image Image
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:42 pm

Posts: 938

Magnus Orion wrote:
Godot believes pheonix isn't a good lawyer...
Spoiler: 3-5
That's why he challanges pheonix in 3-5. Godot says "I don't think much of you as a lawyer. You always have some girl come in at the last minute to save you." Or something to that affect. Anyway, he challenges pheonix to do defend his client without the help of Mia, and he pulls it off. This earns godot and mia's respect at the end of the case. Mia even claims tht Pheonix surpassed her. During the games we see his development as a lawyer, so 1-4 with his grasping, to 3-5 with his deductions show how the experience he gains improve his skills. Basically, he's not great based on the first game, but come T&T he is.

Spoiler: 4-4
Then he gets tricked into presenting forged evidence and loses his badge a few months later :nick-sweat:

And we all know Godot has a great grasp on reality, right?

"dun wurry mia, i'll save you."
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

No DSis in the courtroom please.

Gender: Female

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:35 pm

Posts: 2626

Well he did get through law school right XD
Hes not like the worst or anything, but I wouldn't call him the best.
He often gets help, and doesn't prepare a solid case
But then again, this may be because he only has like a day to find out who his client is, and then investigate.
Phoenix has good deduction skills, but at times can't look at the big picture XD
Overall I think he would be a fairly good attorney.
ImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

He's MORALLY good and sure he's got an arsenal of deus ex machina but based on how he scolded AJ about why he's not objecting.

And he knows about the all teeny weeny little bits of law as he didn't expect any average person to know about...whatever clause it was that Adrian used to not testify.

Sure he gets help but he always pieces it together himself in the end.
Besides maybe it's not all that uncommon for legal folks to get help, Mia had Diego, Apollo has his mentor Nick and Trucy, hell Edgey is going to have multiple partners in Keygirl, Franziska and Gumshoe and maybe even Prosecutor Sporty will co-operate with him so it's not THAT uncommon for them to have help is it?

Besides the whole thing with it is everyone tries to help, every witness brings a new piece of the puzzle to light. If lawyers were just put in a courtroom and told to decide whether someone was guilty or innocent they'd get nowhere they need other people's information and input to make the logical conclusion visable to them. :garyuu:

Though I really think he should've read some of those law books that mock him.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 am

Posts: 144

Herr Blondie wrote:
And he knows about the all teeny weeny little bits of law as he didn't expect any average person to know about...whatever clause it was that Adrian used to not testify.


You mean pleading the fifth?
I'm pretty sure its common knowledge, but given the circumstances, Phoenix was surprised that Adrian thought of doing it then.
ImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

Magnus Orion wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
And he knows about the all teeny weeny little bits of law as he didn't expect any average person to know about...whatever clause it was that Adrian used to not testify.


You mean pleading the fifth?
I'm pretty sure its common knowledge, but given the circumstances, Phoenix was surprised that Adrian thought of doing it then.


It clearly wasn't common knowledge since it drove Nick to shock thinking she knew about it, he concluded Fransiska must have told her about it as it's highly unlikely she knew about it on her own.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 am

Posts: 144

Its the fifth ammendment of the Bill of Rights. Here's what wiki has to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleading_the_Fifth

It guarentees people the right to avoid self-incriminating testimonies. Its pretty popular in crime dramas, so most people know about it. Like fingerprinting or double jeopordy. (though the later is less common knowledge than the first two. Ironicly, considering that double jeopordy is PART of the fifth ammendment, but just like the secret service is known for protecting the president ((their primary job is actually stopping counterfit currency)), the fifth is more well known for its ability to allow someone to refuse testimony than the double jeopordy rule.) Ever hear of the miranda warning: "You have the right to remain silent" ? Thats a right because of the Fifth Ammendment.



Phoenix states that
Spoiler: 4-2
"Pleading the fifth is not something most people would think to do in this situation."
thats as close to the quote as I can get from memory.
But he realizes fransika told her to once she continues to do it even though she may be found guilty of murder for it. Its only when Edgeworth threatens to effectively blackmail her that she decides to choose to testify over what she had been told to do.

ImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

Magnus Orion wrote:
Its the fifth ammendment of the Bill of Rights. Here's what wiki has to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleading_the_Fifth

It guarentees people the right to avoid self-incriminating testimonies. Its pretty popular in crime dramas, so most people know about it. Like fingerprinting or double jeopordy. (though the later is less common knowledge than the first two. Ironicly, considering that double jeopordy is PART of the fifth ammendment, but just like the secret service is known for protecting the president ((their primary job is actually stopping counterfit currency)), the fifth is more well known for its ability to allow someone to refuse testimony than the double jeopordy rule.) Ever hear of the miranda warning: "You have the right to remain silent" ? Thats a right because of the Fifth Ammendment.



Phoenix states that
Spoiler: 4-2
"Pleading the fifth is not something most people would think to do in this situation."
thats as close to the quote as I can get from memory.
But he realizes fransika told her to once she continues to do it even though she may be found guilty of murder for it. Its only when Edgeworth threatens to effectively blackmail her that she decides to choose to testify over what she had been told to do.


You better be sure of that quote, I'm pretty sure her talked about her not knowing about it rather than what she shouldn't do. And Fransiska wouldn't do something like that to get someone other than the accused guilty she wanted perfect vengence on Nick, are you sure your correct?
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Surf's Up!

Gender: Male

Location: The gloomiest place on earth (i.e. the UK)

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:34 pm

Posts: 2257

Personally, I don't think that he's that good a lawyer, given that he's only had 13 cases in 3 years (counting the flashback trial in 4-4). I'd have thought that he'd have had more cases if he was a good lawyer.

Then again, he is good enough of a lawyer to have his own imposter, so....
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 am

Posts: 144

Quote:
You better be sure of that quote, I'm pretty sure her talked about her not knowing about it rather than what she shouldn't do. And Fransiska wouldn't do something like that to get someone other than the accused guilty she wanted perfect vengence on Nick, are you sure your correct?

I'll look it up....
Well I got three words wrong, but here it is...
And Franzy, yes she would, if she thought she was going to be there and could give hints when to stop. :whip:
Spoiler: 4-2 youtube walkthrough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S58rq7IX3RE&feature=PlayList&p=0143BBF0938BEE60&index=79 First few seconds, less than 10.
But you can watch the pervious video and this one to get the whole context.


(Don't these walkthroughs defeat the whole purpose of the games? Oh well, makes looking up quotes easier.)
ImageImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

nuuuuu, stoooooop

Gender: Female

Location: America

Rank: Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 5255

I think that Phoenix is great at deduction, but I wouldn't necessarily say he's a great lawyer. He kind of lucks out that all his clients turn out to be innocent, and in general has a horrible work ethic. In 1-5 he even says he avoided taking cases for months after Maya left because he just didn't feel like it. What if some of the people asking for him had been innocent...? After beating the city's two perfect prosecutors you'd think he would have requests breaking his door down, but even by T&T he still acts like the underdog just scraping by, and only takes cases when they're of personal importance or someone drags him to them.

Which is part of what makes his character interesting, of course. But if you asked Phoenix to behave like a proper lawyer who actually studies the letter of the law, obeys investigation restrictions, and focuses only on his defendant and not pointing the finger at someone else, I think he wouldn't be able to do it.
ImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gettin' Old!

Gender: Male

Location: Scotland

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Posts: 14363

Hmm still Fransiska prepared her, that much we know we cannot possibly conclude whether Adrian was aware of this or not. I'm sure not every american knows their constitutional rights.

And Ninjamonkey some trials take years so I think thats a pretty good record considering some of his trials are solved in less than a week.

But Croik theres a reason Nick normally gets innocent clients...he's got his magatama remember? He tested Matt's innocence before accepting his case, though really his hands were tied on that one. He can tell what clients are innocent and therefore find a way to save them
Made by Chesu+Zombee
Image

You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Surf's Up!

Gender: Male

Location: The gloomiest place on earth (i.e. the UK)

Rank: Ace Attorney

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:34 pm

Posts: 2257

Herr Blondie wrote:
And Ninjamonkey some trials take years so I think thats a pretty good record considering some of his trials are solved in less than a week.


Real World, yes. AA world (where trials are only allowed to take 3 days maximum), no.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Licensed Smartass

Gender: Male

Location: Israel

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm

Posts: 16

NinjaMonkey wrote:
Personally, I don't think that he's that good a lawyer, given that he's only had 13 cases in 3 years (counting the flashback trial in 4-4). I'd have thought that he'd have had more cases if he was a good lawyer.


I always assumed he had taken more cases in between those, they simply weren't important enough for us to play out, and weren't against the better prosecutors. He did stop taking cases between 1-4 and 1-5, but 2-1 gave a strong impression that he was becoming well known and did take other cases.

For that matter, two one gave us a glimpse of what phoenix can manage when he has more then a day to prepare. Then he got amnesia. Shame really.
So, I've been giving this egg business a shot. Click for glory!

Spoiler: Eggs and Hatchlings
Image Image Image Image Image
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:34 am

Posts: 124

Eh, putting a character into the game world means that it's harder to judge them by real life standards. RPG characters can't honestly be called good adventurers since they rush headlong into caves and mountains infested with horrible monsters. First person shooter characters aren't good soldiers for pretty much the same reason.

But with game standards? Considering the difficulty of Phoenix's cases and the total lack of evidence most of the time, I'd say he's both pretty good and pretty lucky. Usually, he just grasps on barely, trusting his client and finding contradictions, until someone either slips up or hands him the decisive piece of evidence. That's both admirable and lucky.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title

Gender: None specified

Rank: Prosecutor

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Posts: 821

Personally I think the evidences at the end of T&T are some of the most obvious.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Achtung Baby! Today we play it my way!

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:35 am

Posts: 27

In a sense, he is meant to be the best lawyer in the game since he wins all his cases.

But i'd like to think that the Von Karma's as the best lawyers in the Game.
Manfred had a pretty solid Victory Record (and he was nearly impossible to defend against).
And Franziska was a lawyer since she was 13 (In Germany/America).
The Forsaken Sword
Image
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Gender: Male

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:04 pm

Posts: 10

He gets the odd nudge in the right direction from time to time, but overall he obviously knows his onions. The fact that he isn't completely infallible is more for the sake of the player than anything. It'd be pretty boring if Phoenix was 100% sure of everything 100% of the time.

Also...

Spoiler: Trials & Tribulations, case 5
Both Godot and Mia recognise his talent as a lawyer.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

This time.. it's real!

Gender: Female

Rank: Suspect

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:09 am

Posts: 36

FirexxxSaber wrote:
Is Phoenix Wright actually a good lawyer?


Realistically, his skill relies on the player, so either he could be as smart as a brick in a bowl of fruit salad, OR he's the next Stephen Hawking. xD

Edgeworth is pretty dang quick to the draw, so I'd say he wins.

In character, I think he's pretty neutral. He has his moments of glory although he'd be pretty much useless at times if it weren't for the Magatama.
:maya:
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

nuuuuu, stoooooop

Gender: Female

Location: America

Rank: Admin

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:16 am

Posts: 5255

Herr Blondie wrote:
But Croik theres a reason Nick normally gets innocent clients...he's got his magatama remember? He tested Matt's innocence before accepting his case, though really his hands were tied on that one. He can tell what clients are innocent and therefore find a way to save them


That doesn't apply to the first game. And even in later games he doesn't always think to use the Magatama so blatantly. Plus the Magatama itself is not 100% reliable. We don't see any instances of Phoenix turning down a case because he thought the client was guilty, so yeah, I'd say it's luck that he almost always has an innocent client.

It makes you wonder what Phoenix WOULD do if he was confronted with a guitly client. I think there's no question that if Maya hadn't been in danger in 2-4 he would have dropped Matt the moment he got a confession out of him (though maybe Matt wouldn't have spilled the beans if not for having Maya as leverage in the first place). So would he refuse to take a case up front if he knew the potential client was guilty? Would he depend entirely on the magatama to tell the difference? Or would it also depend on his perception of the client? There have been guilty people who don't show locks, and innocent ones who do, so is the magatama really that much more dependable than Phoenix's gut instincts? But Phoenix's instincts aren't so hot either.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Phoenix has a very haphazard way of choosing which cases he'll take, and even then takes them rarely. A really good lawyer would be able to take a lot of cases, innocent or guilty, and win most if not all of them - which is probably what Grossberg and Kristoph were doing to get as popular and as rich as they were.
ImageImage
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Cross-examining your posts!

Gender: Male

Location: Michigan

Rank: Medium-in-training

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:52 pm

Posts: 478

Noble Savant wrote:
It's difficult to judge how good Phoenix actually is at being an attorney. Most of the cases we see him take are hopeless causes that other lawyers stay away from, and most of them have a complicated story behind them. Plus, while Mia (or Maya) almost always comes through in the end with some helpful advice, it tends to be something more ephemeral. Rather then actually telling you what to do, she tells Phoenix to "think outside the box", or not to give up. At which point he solves the case.

We also have the fact that he seems to rely on bluff and trickery a great deal of the time to close the case. On the other hand, he does have the nearly impossible task of proving his client innocent beyond any shadow of a doubt, (which is what the judge always seems to require). Sure, the magatama is a helpful trick, but beyond channeling Mia (which isn't as useful as it seems normally), Maya is more useful for general hunches and humor.

While he does have a bit more extra help then most lawyers, I think we can safely call Phoenix an "Ace Attorney".

Not to mention that Phoenix doesn't even seem to like being a lawyer all that much until
Spoiler: AJ is safe I think, but just to be sure
he loses his job. Though that is after quite a bit of lawyering that may have endeared him to the job.
In 1-5, dubious as it is, it's implied that Phoenix doesn't take cases very often, and even denies normal clients who come to him rather than being thrust upon him by strange circumstances.
Formerly Avenger...
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

avatar made by Lunaria42. <3

Gender: Female

Rank: Decisive Witness

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Posts: 277

In 1-5 I thought he didn't take cases because
Spoiler:
he was depressed about Maya?
Not because he didn't usually take cases...
Image
Signature by Purple Angel.
Re: Is Phoenix Actually A Good Lawyer?Topic%20Title
User avatar

Take a good look, everyone!

Gender: Male

Rank: Desk Jockey

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:51 am

Posts: 92

no.
Image
Page 1 of 3 [ 86 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

 Board index » Phoenix Wright » Defendant's Lobby

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot [Bot?], Yandex [Bot?] and 23 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to:  
cron
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
Powered by phpBB

phpBB SEO