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Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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PsychoDahlia?!

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*Spoilers for all games!!!*
In AA, there are lots of murder victims. But, 90% of them seem to be male. Now I'm a strong believer in gender equality and I think having it that way is sexist to both genders. Not only the obvious 'males are more expendable' but also it makes men have all the important positions and higher statuses, etc, to have a reason to be killed. Here is a list of victims:
Spoiler: PW:AA
Case 1
Cindy Stone: She wasn't even a proper murder victim. She was just killed at the spare of the moment.
Case 2
Mia Fey: One of only two female victims with a proper motive against her. She is a strong, powerful woman who was investigating other crimes which landed her in trouble.
Case 3
Jack Hammer: Also not a proper murder, but it easily could have been a woman.
Case 4
Robert Hammond & Gregory Edgeworth: Powerful, great defense attorneys. Of course they are both men because apparently one female defense attorney was enough for the game.
Case 5
Neil Marshall: Apparently one female prosecutor is all they can have too.
Bruce Goodman: A detective striving for truth, etc, who could have been a woman. The only female detective in the game, Angel, is a floozy who serves lunch. LUNCH!
The Darke Victims: 5, of which 2 were women. We don't know much about them apart from one was a boy.

Spoiler: PW:JFA
Case 1
Dustin Prince: Probably had to be a guy because he and Maggey were supposed to be lovers, even though that was later revealed as gossip.
Case 2
Dr Grey: Apparently women can't own medical clinics.
Case 3
Mr Berry: Regina was supposed to be the victim, so it's not a murder either. Also, I guess they couldn't kill a teenage girl (but they COULD kill a boy in RFTA).
Case 4
Juan Corrida: One of the few that actually had to be a man, because of his relationship with Celeste.

Spoiler: PW:T&T
Case 1
Doug Swallow: He didn't have to be Dollie's boyfriend, and there are plenty of female neuroscientists (or whatever he was doing)! I don't think there are any female geniuses in the series.
Case 2
Kane Bullard: A CEO, so 'of course' it just had to be a man.
Case 3
Glen Elg: Another genius, this time a programmer. ''It couldn't" be a woman because we all know women don't program. Even Lisa Basil wasn't a programmer (but I think she may have been a higher up, at least. :keiko: )
Case 4
Valerie Hawthorne: The only other proper female murder victim. She is a lieutenant in the police force (the highest rank so far, I think) and a strong motive against her. Seeing as she was a lieutenant, I'm very surprised they didn't make her a man.
Case 5
Misty Fey: She doesn't really count either because the killer was trying to kill someone who was already dead.

Spoiler: AJ:AA
Case 1
Shadi Smith: Also probably one of the few that had to be a man (because of Lamiroir).
Case 2
Pal Meraktis: Apparently women can't own medical clinics.
Case 3
Romein LeTouse: A big, tough interpol agent posing as a personal bodyguard. The only big, tough woman in the series was Plum, and she was stuck to sweeping the streets! It would also make more sense if Lamiroir had a female personal bodyguard (to me, anyway).
Case 4
Drew Misham: Not a murder victim.

Spoiler: Ace Attoney Investigations SPOILER!
Apparently ALL SEVEN VICTIMS are male.

Anyway, please discuss your thoughts on this issue.
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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I've noticed a very similar pattern with the actual murderers.
There was only one in each game (AAI notwithstanding, I don't know, although if my hunch is correct...)
Spoiler:
Two of them were nurses, who killed their superiors (both of whom were men), one killed in self-defense, and the other was a total Yandere. It does not get much more generic!

Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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Simple: They can't kill off the few female characters the games already have.
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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The Red Dahlia wrote:
Spoiler: AJ:AA
Drew Misham: Not a murder victim.


Spoiler:
How exactly is Drew Misham not a murder victim? Just because he licked a poisoned stamp meant for his daughter, doesn't mean that it isn't murder.


The Red Dahlia wrote:
Not only the obvious 'males are more expendable' but also it makes men have all the important positions and higher statuses, etc, to have a reason to be killed.


In real life, about 90-95% of all CEO's are male. The fact that all the CEO's, Directors, etc in the AA games are male, just reflects this.
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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I've noticed how girls in these games never seem to be ugly. :yogi: Yes, this includes Oldbag!

Well, I think the reason is something along the lines that woman in the AA games tend to be manipulative, pretty, stupid or just weird.
That means no female victims can be jerks or stupid.

Let's go over the list of male victims-

Spoiler:
1-3, Jack is going to kill Dee
1-4, Hammond made Yanni act insane.
1-5, Neil had to be able to fight a serial killer (Not being sexist, just the whole gender role thing of girls being dainty)
2-1, he had to be Maggey's lover
2-2, Grey is a jerk
2-3, ringmasters are mainly male. I've never seen a female ringmaster.
2-4, Corrida needed to be with Celeste and Adrian
3-1, Doug had to date Dollie
3-2, Kane was blackmailing Atmey
3-3, Glen had taken out a loan from the Tiger, and spent all his money on gambling
4-1, it had to be Zak
4-2, Pal tried to kill Alita
4-3, Romein had to be a man so he would take the shots (Just saying that in the AA series, woman are never very bulked up)
4-4, Drew stole one of his daughter's prized possessions.
The only exceptions are Bruce and Gregory, who could of been girls but it doesn't matter much.


It's just gender roles.
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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Do you see the black one...or the white?

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When they start murdering school teachers or nurses, then I'm sure we'll see more female victims. Darn sexist AA society.
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Pierre wrote:
Man...that looks dull...this actually makes me worried for KH3 (since that team worked on the battle system)


I feel the same
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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I think you're thinking too much into this. :lana:
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title

Two more games coming up soon

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You're putting too much thought into this.
Still...

Spoiler: 3-5
I'd say the victim of this case counts as well, as the one Godot was trying to kill was a woman.


Anyway, let's go over the list again...
Spoiler: all cases
1-3: Jack Hammer had to be a male action star and a rival of sorts to Will Powers.
1-4: if Hammond were a woman, Yanni Yogi couldn't have impersonated the victim.
1-5: same thing. If the victim were a woman, Jake Marshall couldn't have impersonated her. Also, among SL-9 detectives, there were already two of the feminist icons in the game: Lana Skye and Angel Starr.
2-1: Maggey Byrde's lover. If the victim were a woman, I'm sure Gumshoe wouldn't be too happy about it.
2-2: both the defendant and the culprit are women already.
2-3: the fact that Russell Berry is a father figure is important to the plot.
2-4: same as 1-3. Also, the love triangle doesn't make sense if Juan Corrida's a woman.
3-1: love triangle.
3-2: corrupt CEO. Not exactly a good image for a woman to have... but yeah, I suppose Kane Bullard could've been Kate Bullard.
3-3: yep, I suppose Glen Elg could've been a woman. As for Lisa Basil, I'm pretty sure she's the CEO of Blue Screens.
4-1: Zak Gramarye has to be a man for so many reasons I can't even list them.
4-2: same as 3-2.
4-3: I see your point, but the victim has to be big and tough in order not to die instantly from the bullet.

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Last edited by Ping' on Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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The writers(who I'm pretty sure are mainly male) probably didn't have the heart to kill off the few women they had, since they made them look so pretty and delicate and dainty :yuusaku:
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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PsychoDahlia?!

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NinjaMonkey wrote:
The Red Dahlia wrote:
Spoiler: AJ:AA
Drew Misham: Not a murder victim.


Spoiler:
How exactly is Drew Misham not a murder victim? Just because he licked a poisoned stamp meant for his daughter, doesn't mean that it isn't murder.


The Red Dahlia wrote:
Not only the obvious 'males are more expendable' but also it makes men have all the important positions and higher statuses, etc, to have a reason to be killed.


In real life, about 90-95% of all CEO's are male. The fact that all the CEO's, Directors, etc in the AA games are male, just reflects this.

It's called 'manslaughter'.
90-95%? Where did you get that figure? It couldn't be that much nowadays, surely!
Spoiler: Ping
"1-3: Jack Hammer had to be a male action star and a rival of sorts to Will Powers."
The Evil Magistrate could have been a woman... besides, I didn't see much rivalry between them.
"1-4: if Hammond were a woman, Yanni Yogi couldn't have impersonated the victim."
True, but Yanni could have been a girl. Like Lind says, there were hardly any female killers.
"1-5: same thing. If the victim were a woman, Jake Marshall couldn't have impersonated her. Also, among SL-9 detectives, there were already two of the feminist icons in the game: Lana Skye and Angel Starr."
Feminist Icons? I really doubt a... floozy like Angel Starr who has about 5 boyfriends and wears such revealing clothes is a feminist icon. (Still, she is one of the funniest characters in the game.) I wouldn't exactly call Lana an 'icon' either.
"2-1: Maggey Byrde's lover. If the victim were a woman, I'm sure Gumshoe wouldn't be too happy about it."
They weren't lovers. Maggey herself said she bought the present after he covered one of her shifts, that's all. There might have been a bit of chemistry there, but judging by how she acted extremely happy in the trial I would doubt they were close.
"2-2: both the defendant and the culprit are women already."
Umm, how many cases are there that the defendant, culprit and the victim are men?!
"2-3: the fact that Russell Berry is a father figure is important to the plot."
...Mother figure?
"2-4: same as 1-3. Also, the love triangle doesn't make sense if Juan Corrida's a woman."
Yeah, I agree with that one.
"3-1: love triangle."
There wasn't a love triangle. The only reason Feenie pushed Doug was because he was talking badly about Dahlia. He would have done it if it were a girl. And Dahlia would have had access to the lab if it was her one of her female friends.
"3-2: corrupt CEO. Not exactly a good image for a woman to have... but yeah, I suppose Kane Bullard could've been Kate Bullard."
We need all types of people, male and female. You could say the same about a man. :yogi:
"3-3: yep, I suppose Glen Elg could've been a woman. As for Lisa Basil, I'm pretty sure she's the CEO of Blue Screens."
Well, at least we know that the series CAN have female CEOs.
"4-1: Zak Gramarye has to be a man for so many reasons I can't even list them."
I could only think of two or three. But anyway.
"4-2: same as 3-2."
"4-3: I see your point, but the victim has to be big and tough in order not to die instantly from the bullet."
And we all know women can't be big and tough, right?

dullahan1 wrote:
Darn sexist AA society.

I totally agree.
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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Oh yeah.

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I just think it's because male characters are overall more common in most games/series.
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title

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It doesn't really matter to me. At least there ARE female murderers (and personally I think they tend to be the most interesting). The few female victims are also interesting, even Cindy Stone just for the mere fact of being the first one. Mia being killed in 1-2 was shocking enough for me, didn't expect a main character killed so early in a game... And let's not talk about "Elise" in 3-5. That was just epic.
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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The Red Dahlia wrote:
*Spoilers for all games!!!*
In AA, there are lots of murder victims. But, 90% of them seem to be male. Now I'm a strong believer in gender equality and I think having it that way is sexist to both genders. Not only the obvious 'males are more expendable' but also it makes men have all the important positions and higher statuses, etc, to have a reason to be killed. Here is a list of victims:

Spoiler: PW:T&T
Case 5
Misty Fey: She doesn't really count either because the killer was trying to kill someone who was already dead.



If I understand correctly...

Spoiler:
Doesn't Misty Fey technically count? Regardless of intended target, the victim would have to be a woman in this case, because only spirit mediums can be women. As Godot pointed out, the victim could have been Pearl, since she was also trying to summon Dahlia's spirit that night. Furthermore, had Godot witnessed Maya channeling Dahlia in order to protect herself, there's that small chance she could have been a victim as well.

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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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I think in general it's just more common for men to be victims and perpetrators of murders. I found this page, which I can't claim to know is perfectly reliable, but it has some interesting statistics:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

In short it says that around 2005 men were 10 times more likely to commit murder than women, and were 4 times more likely to be the victim of murder.

And I'm not sure I understand why the "CEOs are mostly men" issue was even brought up, because of the victims only Kane was in a position of considerable power (unless you count Grey, head of a failing clinic). The other male victims have been actors in a children's TV show, lawyers, policemen, doctors, a circus ringmaster, a college student, a computer nerd, and a convict. None of those are hugely prominent, and there are women in the series who hold many of those positions or even higher. I don't think it's a status thing so much as a "right tool for the job" thing.
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Interesting Observation.

Kane Bullard looked like a woman to me though...
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Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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That's one of my rules.

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To be fair, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I hardly think Capcom is intentionally sexist (Case in point: Resident Evil). It's just how things happened?

*shrug* To put a point on it, I've no qualms. In fact, I never even noticed. :yogi:
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title
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All of those cases were murders, even if the victim was just killed there and it wasn't planned. At least there were female culprits! They did bad things, and some were killed because of those things.

Spoiler:
1-1: Cindy was sorta cheating on Larry, although that wasn't the reason she was killed
1-3: Jack tried to kill Dee Vasquez and was planning on pinning it on Will
1-4: Robert didn't believe in his clients, which led to one of his clients killing him
2-4: Juan forged a suicide note and was about to expose it, for the purpose of ruining Matt's career
3-2: Bullard was like Redd. He blackmailed Atmey, too.
3-3: Glen was a hacker, and about to let that virus loose.
3-4: Valerie got Terry for a murder that didn't actually happen
4-1: Shadi was trying to cheat in poker and ruin Phoenix's name.
4-2: He almost murdered Alita, and didn't mention the bullet in Wocky's heart and acted as if everything was okay
4-4: Because of Drew's forging business, Phoenix lost his attorneys badge


The REAL sexist ones are people (Like the people who made CustomRobo) who only allow you to be a guy in the game, 'cuz they expect the player to be a guy. Phoenix Wright, is y'know different, 'cuz you have to play as that character, it's not like you can change his name or anything. In Pokemon Platinum, they let you play as a girl or a boy... But alot of games only let you play as a guy.

Okay, actually, it really bugs me how most videogame creators always think that boys are gonna play the games, 'cuz they think girls are too preppy and sassy to understand how to play. That's sorta true (w/ girl gamer wannabes) but pretty much every girl on CR is a true gamer! It angers me how guys are always, "Oh, you're a girl, that means you can't play videogames *dumb nerd laugh*" A kid at my school's like that. He's a wimp and my friend and him always set times to battle, but he never shows up. Then he goes, "Oh, you can't beat me at Brawl!" I told him he's a wimp in a frilly pink skirt, who's afraid of girls, which explains him never showing up for battle.

Hmmm... At first I didn't agree w/ you about all this, but know, I do.

At least the creators of No More Heroes are fair. The top three ranked assasins are female! Out of the 10 ranked assasins, half of them are women (Besides the top three, there's Shinobu and Holly)

3. Speed Buster (F)
2. Bad Girl (F)
1. Jeane (F)

I'm glad! They show the true power of girls! And Bad Girl does wear a pink frilly dress, and has a bloody bat. 0_o

Wow, I've strayed off topic. But at least some games show the power of girls! :keiko:
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Last edited by Steel_Python on Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why are there so many male victims?Topic%20Title

Two more games coming up soon

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How can AA be a sexist game when the central plot revolves around a community ruled by women?
When Mia is clearly shown to be a better lawyer than Phoenix?
Female characters in AA are as varied as male characters. There is no "woman" stereotype, they are not defined by the fact that they are women and they all have very different personalities and situations.
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Phoenix is surrounded by girls... (Maya and Pearl) I guess the series can't really just kill them.
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And, I mean, it sorta evens out. If you think about it that way, then it's sexist to both genders, so neither one should really be offended...
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Croik wrote:
I think in general it's just more common for men to be victims and perpetrators of murders. I found this page, which I can't claim to know is perfectly reliable, but it has some interesting statistics:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

In short it says that around 2005 men were 10 times more likely to commit murder than women, and were 4 times more likely to be the victim of murder.

Wow, those figures were truly shocking.... I wonder why they don't have 'end violence against men' campaigns as well as women, as it is way worse for men. Wow, I never knew it was so dangerous for guys!
Croik wrote:
I don't think it's a status thing so much as a "right tool for the job" thing.

Well, I see what you are saying but I still think saying 'women aren't right for this position' is sexist too.
Steel_Python wrote:
All of those cases were murders, even if the victim was just killed there and it wasn't planned. At least there were female culprits! They did bad things, and some were killed because of those things.

Yes, at least that is true. I've started playing Unsolved Crimes, and I've finished the fifth(?) case, and there have been two female killers. However, they are weak characters and both of them broke down and cried as they were confessing. One even (unbelievably) was 'inspired' by the person's courage she tried to frame and decided to change her ways, etc, etc. :beef: Oh. My. Goodness.

Steel_Python wrote:
At least the creators of No More Heroes are fair. The top three ranked assasins are female! Out of the 10 ranked assasins, half of them are women (Besides the top three, there's Shinobu and Holly)

3. Speed Buster (F)
2. Bad Girl (F)
1. Jeane (F)

I'm glad! They show the true power of girls! And Bad Girl does wear a pink frilly dress, and has a bloody bat. 0_o

Wow, I've strayed off topic. But at least some games show the power of girls! :keiko:

That's very true, the women in that game were awesome, except they had to make Travis a sexist jerk, to 'balance things out' or some rubbish, even when it was still too unbalanced... on the other side!

Psych'd wrote:
And, I mean, it sorta evens out. If you think about it that way, then it's sexist to both genders, so neither one should really be offended...

Ah, if only that's how it works...
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The Red Dahlia wrote:
Steel_Python wrote:
At least the creators of No More Heroes are fair. The top three ranked assasins are female! Out of the 10 ranked assasins, half of them are women (Besides the top three, there's Shinobu and Holly)

3. Speed Buster (F)
2. Bad Girl (F)
1. Jeane (F)

I'm glad! They show the true power of girls! And Bad Girl does wear a pink frilly dress, and has a bloody bat. 0_o

Wow, I've strayed off topic. But at least some games show the power of girls! :keiko:

That's very true, the women in that game were awesome, except they had to make Travis a sexist jerk, to 'balance things out' or some rubbish, even when it was still too unbalanced... on the other side!


Yeah, now that I think about it, he didn't kill Holly because she was a woman, so she commited suicide... I think he didn't kill Shinobu for the same reason.
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