Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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Kryptik wrote:
I'm a hardcore 
/ 
myself. Faux-cest, baby!
/ myself. Faux-cest, baby!Ugh. No offense, of course, but that pairing... squicks me out.
If only because, and I'm paraphrasing the wonderful Musouka here... the airport scene, taken between siblings, is adorable and darling and emotional. If you view it in a romantic context? It's horribly, HORRIBLY disturbing.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Claudia?
CORDELIA.
/smack LZ.
(I'm so sorry I didn't mean to ;_; )
CORDELIA.
/smack LZ.
(I'm so sorry I didn't mean to ;_; )
Sorry ;o; I haven't watched the series in a while and I'm bad with names! I was closr though ^_^ Edited for everyones benefit!
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Liquidzilla wrote:
EXM:
Ntice how he's so awkward around her? He has a huge crush ^^ Phoenix' over protective brother act comes out more around him too. This could be that he doesn't want Edgeworth falling for anyone but him, but it could also be he sees Edgeworth as a threat to his 'sister' figure Maya.
Ntice how he's so awkward around her? He has a huge crush ^^ Phoenix' over protective brother act comes out more around him too. This could be that he doesn't want Edgeworth falling for anyone but him, but it could also be he sees Edgeworth as a threat to his 'sister' figure Maya.
Mmm. Edgeworth is awkward around Maya, but I don't think that's indicative of a "huge crush", because when it doesn't concern his job, Edgeworth is awkward around everybody. And I'm curious as to why you say what you did about Phoenix in regards to it--I didn't get that impression at all.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
Mmm. Edgeworth is awkward around Maya, but I don't think that's indicative of a "huge crush", because when it doesn't concern his job, Edgeworth is awkward around everybody. And I'm curious as to why you say what you did about Phoenix in regards to it--I didn't get that impression at all.
Really? I got the impression he was quite degnified around the others, but when Maya confronts him he became all flustered. Phoenix seems protective over Maya when she's around Edgey, I can't quote the game, but he seems really angry at him when Maya and Edgeworth talk for a bit.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
raging klavier crush
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Liquidzilla wrote:
Really? I got the impression he was quite degnified around the others, but when Maya confronts him he became all flustered. Phoenix seems protective over Maya when she's around Edgey, I can't quote the game, but he seems really angry at him when Maya and Edgeworth talk for a bit.
He does become flustered around Maya - because the only times we see him talking to her are when he's in a social situation and she's pushing him. He also becomes flustered, stammers, does the whole deal - in a similar setting concerning other people up to and including Will Powers.
I think Edgeworth is very fond of Maya. But his becoming awkward isn't indicative of a crush, because it's not something exclusive to her.
Definitely not following you re: Phoenix. Not saying it isn't there, but I don't remember anything like that at all.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
I'm a hardcore / myself. Faux-cest, baby!
/ myself. Faux-cest, baby!Ugh. No offense, of course, but that pairing... squicks me out.
If only because, and I'm paraphrasing the wonderful Musouka here... the airport scene, taken between siblings, is adorable and darling and emotional. If you view it in a romantic context? It's horribly, HORRIBLY disturbing.
DELICIOUS COPYPASTA, YOU MUST EAT IT:
/ This will actually be a quick one. Some have said they view the airport scene as romantic. While I think anyone is within their rights to see it that way, the mere idea that it is supposed to be indicative of romance between the von Karma siblings CREEPS ME OUT.
Here is why, in a nutshell. Familial and romantic relationships are different. Yes, this is obvious, but I think it bears repeating. If the scene is taken in a familial context, it is sweet and touching. It shows that both of them understand the other, and that they can communicate with one another on a comfortable level in a way that they struggle with when it comes to the rest of the cast. Taken romantically, it becomes a creepy scene of emotional blackmail in which a man, when faced with the prospect of the woman he love's pain and suffering, CHOOSES TO TURN HIS BACK ON HER AND SAYS "FIND YOUR OWN ANSWER". When you are part of a family, you want to encourage growth. Sometimes that means being harsh and stepping away, knowing that your loved one will understand. But with romance...you support one another. There is no "WE will get through this together" in that scene. There is "I know you have the courage and strength to find your own way". Which is a beautiful message for a brother to give to a sister, but not such a beautiful message for someone that is supposed to be in love with this person.
That, to me, is why I can't read that scene as romantic. At all. And the thought of it, unless you are doing something rather dark with the possibility, churns my stomach.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
He does become flustered around Maya - because the only times we see him talking to her are when he's in a social situation and she's pushing him. He also becomes flustered, stammers, does the whole deal - in a similar setting concerning other people up to and including Will Powers.
I think Edgeworth is very fond of Maya. But his becoming awkward isn't indicative of a crush, because it's not something exclusive to her.
I think Edgeworth is very fond of Maya. But his becoming awkward isn't indicative of a crush, because it's not something exclusive to her.
Hmm, I just thought he seemed more awkward with her than all the others. He also seems to be worried about her and shows obvious emotion when
Spoiler:
Quote:
Definitely not following you re: Phoenix. Not saying it isn't there, but I don't remember anything like that at all.
Really? I think it was when
Spoiler:
Re: The pairing debate thread!
raging klavier crush
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Liquidzilla wrote:
Hmm, I just thought he seemed more awkward with her than all the others. He also seems to be worried about her and shows obvious emotion when
Spoiler:
Well, again, Edgeworth does care about Maya. But think about the situation. Her life had been in danger. It would have nothing to do with romance and flat-out reflect extremely poorly on Edgeworth as a human being if he wasn't concerned and did what he could to help. It's simply that his being awkward in expressing that has nothing to do with Maya and everything to do with Edgeworth in himself and his lack of social skills. He also stammers horribly when he's trying to thank Phoenix and ask him if he's all right. He stutters around Will Powers when trying to express appreciation for his work.
Edgeworth fails at being social and expressing emotion that doesn't have to do with What It Means To Be A Lawyer in general.
Quote:
Really? I think it was when
Spoiler:
All right, I think I know what you mean. Yes, Phoenix was angry with Edgeworth, but that has nothing to do with Maya or his talking to Maya. Phoenix had been angry at Edgeworth throughout the entire game, and he explicitly tells us why: he felt personally betrayed by his disappearance.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Spoiler: musouka
Spoiler:
[quote=musoka]Kaminogi/Grossberg OTP?
[/quote]It's not unheard of
Spoiler: me
Spoiler: Musouka
Spoiler:
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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and 
I think you need to play the game through again, I don't agree alot on your interpreting on Godots personality. Good think it comes out in english soon, eh?
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Croik wrote:
The tags are starting to get cumbersome XD
...yeah. XD
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Spoiler: me
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Quote:
I guess, in a way, it's sort of like Franziska's development. To some, seeing that single scene of her crying at the end makes her totally make sense and allows you to fill in most of the gaps. To others, it's a cheap, tacked on grap for sympathy that just doesn't work. I'm not sure there's any wrong or right answer, just a difference in opinion...
Haha, well, if I'm being honest, I don't like Franziska, and to me the Airport Scene felt like the later. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, since I can't respond to anything in your last post except to repeat everything I've already said. What it comes down to is...I just didn't buy it. I didn't buy that Godot and Mia's relationship was deep and special, or that he felt any real remorse at the end.
Spoiler:
...Hmm, I think that's all I've got XD.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Raelle wrote:
Well, again, Edgeworth does care about Maya. But think about the situation. Her life had been in danger. It would have nothing to do with romance and flat-out reflect extremely poorly on Edgeworth as a human being if he wasn't concerned and did what he could to help. It's simply that his being awkward in expressing that has nothing to do with Maya and everything to do with Edgeworth in himself and his lack of social skills. He also stammers horribly when he's trying to thank Phoenix and ask him if he's all right. He stutters around Will Powers when trying to express appreciation for his work.
Edgeworth fails at being social and expressing emotion that doesn't have to do with What It Means To Be A Lawyer in general.
All right, I think I know what you mean. Yes, Phoenix was angry with Edgeworth, but that has nothing to do with Maya or his talking to Maya. Phoenix had been angry at Edgeworth throughout the entire game, and he explicitly tells us why: he felt personally betrayed by his disappearance.
Edgeworth fails at being social and expressing emotion that doesn't have to do with What It Means To Be A Lawyer in general.
All right, I think I know what you mean. Yes, Phoenix was angry with Edgeworth, but that has nothing to do with Maya or his talking to Maya. Phoenix had been angry at Edgeworth throughout the entire game, and he explicitly tells us why: he felt personally betrayed by his disappearance.
Edgeworth just seemed to be more concerned than the other characters (except Phoenix) and normally Edgeworth hides his emotions from view. I just thought that if he didn't really 'care' about her in that way then he would have actly more calmly, as perusual, and would have still given the case the same amount of attention, but with less emotion showing on the outside.
I do agree with you, but I think this part of the game is just how you perseave the characters. One person might think that Phoenix was angry, another might think protective and another might think concerned. It's all in the eye of the beholder ^_^ (sorry, that's pretty cop-outish I know)
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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EDIT: SO NOW THAT THAT'S SETTLED, WHO'S NEXT?
Re: The pairing debate thread!
e × e = e²
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But I'll be back with a vengeance! We will meet again in the forum of battle...
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
I'm a hardcore / myself. Faux-cest, baby!
/ myself. Faux-cest, baby!Ugh. No offense, of course, but that pairing... squicks me out.
If only because, and I'm paraphrasing the wonderful Musouka here... the airport scene, taken between siblings, is adorable and darling and emotional. If you view it in a romantic context? It's horribly, HORRIBLY disturbing.
Even though I'm an EdgeyxFran fan (not a hardcore one in the least, but I like it if only because frillcest is hot >>; *is shallow*) I completely agree with you :/ I'd explain further but Musouka already explained it perfectly in the least favorite pairings thread >>; So while I like the pairing, I don't really like it as more than one-sided up through the games, and then if it's mutual only after JFA. If...that made sense >>;
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Liquidzilla wrote:
I do agree with you, but I think this part of the game is just how you perseave the characters. One person might think that Phoenix was angry, another might think protective and another might think concerned. It's all in the eye of the beholder ^_^ (sorry, that's pretty cop-outish I know)
Hmm. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is a debate thread. And, well, not all perceptions have equal basis. Phoenix tells us, flat out, why he is angry, and that is consistent with how he acts the rest of the game. He was just as furious with Edgeworth before the subject of Maya ever came up between them.
I mean, anyone can ship E/M if it appeals to them, that's awesome. But I don't think the idea that Phoenix was somehow harsh or jealous with Edgeworth over Edgeworth's interaction with Maya in 2-4 has any real validity.
EDIT: MUSOUKA, BABY, I CHALLENGE YOU. FRANZISKA/KYOUYA VERSUS KYOUYA/GUITAR VERSUS LAWL GARYUUCEST. HEAVEN OR HELL.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Liquidzilla wrote:
Quote:
Mmm. Edgeworth is awkward around Maya, but I don't think that's indicative of a "huge crush", because when it doesn't concern his job, Edgeworth is awkward around everybody. And I'm curious as to why you say what you did about Phoenix in regards to it--I didn't get that impression at all.
Really? I got the impression he was quite degnified around the others, but when Maya confronts him he became all flustered. Phoenix seems protective over Maya when she's around Edgey, I can't quote the game, but he seems really angry at him when Maya and Edgeworth talk for a bit.
I think that's more situational. Her saving him, him seeing her after she had been kidnapped by an assassin, him in really social situations, etc. It's also possible that he's nervous around her because she's so lively and he's not used to it.
I actually think EdgeworthxMaya is kind of cute, but I don't think that the reason it would be cute is because of him stammering, and I don't think that him stammering has anything to do with a crush ^^;
And I don't remember anything like that with Phoenix :/
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
Hmm. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is a debate thread. And, well, not all perceptions have equal basis. Phoenix tells us, flat out, why he is angry, and that is consistent with how he acts the rest of the game. He was just as furious with Edgeworth before the subject of Maya ever came up between them.
I mean, anyone can ship E/M if it appeals to them, that's awesome. But I don't think the idea that Phoenix was somehow harsh or jealous with Edgeworth over Edgeworth's interaction with Maya in 2-4 has any real validity.
I mean, anyone can ship E/M if it appeals to them, that's awesome. But I don't think the idea that Phoenix was somehow harsh or jealous with Edgeworth over Edgeworth's interaction with Maya in 2-4 has any real validity.
I never said he was jelious, just concerned and protective of Maya. I also stated my reply was pretty much a cop-out and that I was sorry for it ^_^
Also, if you look at it from a certain angle, Phoenix could be protective over Maya because he thinks she may get hurt by Edgeworth and/or his actions. (Now I have the motive! All I need if evidence XD)
Also, why would he bring up Maya? she was right there with them and he may have been embarrassed to bring up the subject.
Quote:
I think that's more situational. Her saving him, him seeing her after she had been kidnapped by an assassin, him in really social situations, etc. It's also possible that he's nervous around her because she's so lively and he's not used to it.
I actually think EdgeworthxMaya is kind of cute, but I don't think that the reason it would be cute is because of him stammering, and I don't think that him stammering has anything to do with a crush ^^;
And I don't remember anything like that with Phoenix :/
I actually think EdgeworthxMaya is kind of cute, but I don't think that the reason it would be cute is because of him stammering, and I don't think that him stammering has anything to do with a crush ^^;
And I don't remember anything like that with Phoenix :/
Really? I remember Phoenix saying something along those lines. I did say not to quote me on it though.
I didn't say the stammering was cute though, all i said was I thought it could be the sign of a crush.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Edgey/Maya - ...No. just... no.
I prefer Edgeworth/Gumshoe over that pairing anyday, man. At least it makes a LITTLE more sense. >.>
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Liquidzilla wrote:
Also, if you look at it from a certain angle, Phoenix could be protective over Maya because he thinks she may get hurt by Edgeworth and/or his actions. (Now I have the motive! All I need if evidence XD)
Also, why would he bring up Maya? she was right there with them and he may have been embarrassed to bring up the subject.
Also, why would he bring up Maya? she was right there with them and he may have been embarrassed to bring up the subject.
I think it might help if you could specify the scene you're talking about? I'm wracking my brains and I can't think of a single scene where it comes across that Phoenix is annoyed that Edgeworth is talking to Maya, in any of the games. Phoenix was very angry with Edgeworth in general in JFA, but I can't think of a way that you can bring Maya into that specifically, since Phoenix made it clear exactly what upset him.
Really, if you like E/M, I think 3-5 is kinder to you than anything in the previous games.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Spoiler: 2-4
I can't really see them in a relationship all that well, though :/ Unless they both changed drastically I think he would have too many "this girl is an idiot" moments and she would have too many "this guy is boring" moments for it to really work out in the long run. I think their platonic relationship is cute, though ^^
andbesidesEdgeyxLanaandLarryxMayaarecuter>>;
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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musouka wrote:
Well, I can't say I don't understand how you feel. I don't agree, but I understand.
Same here. *salute*
But what are you thoughts on yaoi...?
jk jk ~~
Re: The pairing debate thread!
raging klavier crush
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4
I think Edgeworth cares about Maya deeply. She plays a role in his life that no one else really does. I love their friendship; the idea of them hanging out and being enormous dorks together is so adorable I sort of go into convulsions. But, yes - romance, and the intimacy that comes with it? I can't see that at all. And I don't think there's much, if any, indication of it.
Spoiler: 2-4
Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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Croik wrote:
musouka wrote:
Well, I can't say I don't understand how you feel. I don't agree, but I understand.
Same here. *salute*
But what are you thoughts on yaoi...?
jk jk ~~
Have you not read Musouka's wonderful, wonderful fanfiction?
SHe loooooves teh buttsex0rz
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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BUT ALL RIGHT
Gotta go to class now noes ;_;
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
I am not familiar with that acronym. >.>
BUT ALL RIGHT
Gotta go to class now noes ;_;
BUT ALL RIGHT
Gotta go to class now noes ;_;
"Fandom Wank"
SHE IS IMPLYING I AM LONG WINDED AND/OR POSSIBLY BORING.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Your sig= FTW.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Raelle wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
Spoiler: 2-4
I think Edgeworth cares about Maya deeply. She plays a role in his life that no one else really does. I love their friendship; the idea of them hanging out and being enormous dorks together is so adorable I sort of go into convulsions. But, yes - romance, and the intimacy that comes with it? I can't see that at all. And I don't think there's much, if any, indication of it.
Spoiler: 2-4
I get what you mean with the trial, I too don't think he threw it away just because he cared about Maya, but just partly because he does. I just think, if you add together all of the evidence he gives you when Maya and him are together, that there are some indications to Edgeworth liking her. I mean, maybe he doesn't even understand what he's feeling and so comes across as different to normal. Maybe it's all a onesided love? Maya doesn't seem to love him in that way at all, but Edgeworth seems to at least have a small crush on her. Maybe he's jelious of Phoenix?
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Liquidzilla wrote:
I get what you mean with the trial, I too don't think he threw it away just because he cared about Maya, but just partly because he does. I just think, if you add together all of the evidence he gives you when Maya and him are together, that there are some indications to Edgeworth liking her. I mean, maybe he doesn't even understand what he's feeling and so comes across as different to normal. Maybe it's all a onesided love? Maya doesn't seem to love him in that way at all, but Edgeworth seems to at least have a small crush on her. Maybe he's jelious of Phoenix?
Well, anything is possible, but the point is whether it's plausible. I don't think anyone would deny that Edgeworth likes Maya a lot. She went to jail to help him, she's very close to Phoenix, and she demands that he better himself. But being romantically interested in her is completely different.
As outlined previously, Maya is not the only person Edgeworth has trouble dealing with. Since it's not something unique to her, it's hard to spin as a special interest. Maya has a strong effect on many people. We see Franziska react much the same way Edgeworth does to Maya's prompting at the end of 3-5. And as much as I like the couple, I would say that's far from proof that Fran has a crush on her. It's a natural consequence of an emotionally supressed and an emotionally open person interacting.
I see no proof that Edgeworth is jealous of Phoenix. Also, if he had a crush on Maya, wouldn't he seek out more chances to spend with her? He might be awkward when he's around her and, well, he doesn't hate her, but he also makes no effort to seek her out outside of times they happen to meet. And when they do meet the lion's share of his attention is invariably on Phoenix.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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At least, I HIGHTLY doubt Edgeworth ever has. Comeone. He's higher maintenance than any woman I've ever met XD
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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As for Edgey, who knows?
I yell "OBJECTION!" in the court sometimes!
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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musouka wrote:
Well, anything is possible, but the point is whether it's plausible. I don't think anyone would deny that Edgeworth likes Maya a lot. She went to jail to help him, she's very close to Phoenix, and she demands that he better himself. But being romantically interested in her is completely different.
As outlined previously, Maya is not the only person Edgeworth has trouble dealing with. Since it's not something unique to her, it's hard to spin as a special interest. Maya has a strong effect on many people. We see Franziska react much the same way Edgeworth does to Maya's prompting at the end of 3-5. And as much as I like the couple, I would say that's far from proof that Fran has a crush on her. It's a natural consequence of an emotionally supressed and an emotionally open person interacting.
I see no proof that Edgeworth is jealous of Phoenix. Also, if he had a crush on Maya, wouldn't he seek out more chances to spend with her? He might be awkward when he's around her and, well, he doesn't hate her, but he also makes no effort to seek her out outside of times they happen to meet. And when they do meet the lion's share of his attention is invariably on Phoenix.
As outlined previously, Maya is not the only person Edgeworth has trouble dealing with. Since it's not something unique to her, it's hard to spin as a special interest. Maya has a strong effect on many people. We see Franziska react much the same way Edgeworth does to Maya's prompting at the end of 3-5. And as much as I like the couple, I would say that's far from proof that Fran has a crush on her. It's a natural consequence of an emotionally supressed and an emotionally open person interacting.
I see no proof that Edgeworth is jealous of Phoenix. Also, if he had a crush on Maya, wouldn't he seek out more chances to spend with her? He might be awkward when he's around her and, well, he doesn't hate her, but he also makes no effort to seek her out outside of times they happen to meet. And when they do meet the lion's share of his attention is invariably on Phoenix.
Para 1:
It depends on your view on it, it's not like we can go and ask them. I think everyone has their own view on how a crush may look and crushes are different for each person, some run away, others tease, some become obsessed.
Para 2:
Edgeworth reacts different to Franziska though. Franny just gets a little lost for words and seems annoyed, wereas Edgeworth seems to genuinly take her words to heart.
Para 3:
What if Edgeworth is one of those people who doesn't get the feeling of love and therefore tries to escape the person who gives those feelings? He also seems to like chatting with her more than he does with Phoenix. I just thought the air between them became quite cold when they talked, but with Maya it seemed to warm up a little.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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But Edgeworth is an island unto himself. Can no one break the wall of ice around his heart...!?!?
*chucks Odoroki at him to see if his BURNING HEART stands a chance*
Re: The pairing debate thread!
俺の黄金の魔女
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Liquidzilla wrote:
Para 1:
It depends on your view on it, it's not like we can go and ask them. I think everyone has their own view on how a crush may look and crushes are different for each person, some run away, others tease, some become obsessed.
It depends on your view on it, it's not like we can go and ask them. I think everyone has their own view on how a crush may look and crushes are different for each person, some run away, others tease, some become obsessed.
Well, as soon as you figure out how Edgeworth acts when he has a crush, then we can talk. All I know is that he's acted the same way around Maya that he has Phoenix and Will Powers, and I can't see him having a "crush" on either of those three.
Liquidzilla wrote:
Para 2:
Edgeworth reacts different to Franziska though. Franny just gets a little lost for words and seems annoyed, wereas Edgeworth seems to genuinly take her words to heart.
Edgeworth reacts different to Franziska though. Franny just gets a little lost for words and seems annoyed, wereas Edgeworth seems to genuinly take her words to heart.
Huh? Maya told them both to do something nice. They both did it. I don't see the difference, to be honest. Yes, Maya pushes Edgeworth to become a better person, but that's because HE wants to be better, not for Maya herself.
Liquidzilla wrote:
Para 3:
What if Edgeworth is one of those people who doesn't get the feeling of love and therefore tries to escape the person who gives those feelings? He also seems to like chatting with her more than he does with Phoenix. I just thought the air between them became quite cold when they talked, but with Maya it seemed to warm up a little.
What if Edgeworth is one of those people who doesn't get the feeling of love and therefore tries to escape the person who gives those feelings? He also seems to like chatting with her more than he does with Phoenix. I just thought the air between them became quite cold when they talked, but with Maya it seemed to warm up a little.
Edgeworth never tries to escape Maya, he just makes no effort to engage her unless she's already there. When he's talking to Phoenix he's never "hey, where's Maya?" Hell, he didn't even seem to notice she wasn't with Phoenix until Phoenix told him she had been kidnapped. That doesn't speak much to me of a crush on his part.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Croik wrote:
I'm sorry, LOG, but Gumshoe has a crush on Maggey. It's caaaaanon.
But Edgeworth is an island unto himself. Can no one break the wall of ice around his heart...!?!?
*chucks Odoroki at him to see if his BURNING HEART stands a chance*
But Edgeworth is an island unto himself. Can no one break the wall of ice around his heart...!?!?
*chucks Odoroki at him to see if his BURNING HEART stands a chance*
*wines and throws things* It's not caaaaanon!!
Gumshoe love Phoenix long time *grumbles*
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