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Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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(A bullet hole probably isn't enough to get enough oxygen to bring enough into the elevator, but I guess they could take turns putting their mouth to the hole and breathing and you know.)
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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During the first several minutes, at least, one would have their wits about them, especially a trained bailiff. Having worked a good amount of time in the courthouse, surely Yanni would've known that the elevators had glass panels on the doors. Further, simply feeling around the stranded lift would've revealed the seam between the metal and glass of the door. Thus, if he had kept his wits about him, instead of panicking in the initial stages of the accident, he could've located and shot the glass windows open, allowing leeway for air to come in. Better yet, he could have shot the glass to weaken it and rammed or kicked it to break a large section open, thus allowing enough air to come in to sustain the 3 men. Especially considering the elevator had ground to a halt level with the floor.
*Cue Cornered*
From that position, cries for help could even be yelled!
You might say there's no evidence the elevator halted level with the floor, but considering the point of damage in the window matched the area where Manfred Von Karma was shot in height, it's impossible that it couldn't have.
And so, had Yanni Yogi remembered his training, to keep calm, he would've saved the life of Gregory Edgeworth, his career, and Miles Edgeworth would've lived a somewhat normal life. If he had, he'd be hailed as a hero, not tried as a criminal.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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But it makes no difference. The fact is, DL-6 happened. Pondering whether DL-6 was preventable or not is irrelevant and ultimatey a waste of time.
*Edgeworth bow* That is all.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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First, they may have had their wits about them in the beginning, but did they really think there was a reason to panic? I don't know about you, but the idea of an elevator stopping combined with the power going out would scare me, but I'd never think that such a thing would result in an oxygen problem. Even now, it seems unrealistic to me.
Second, with it being as dark as it was, there was no way for them to know where the elevator had stopped. Firing a gun with a wall on the other side could result in the bullet ricocheting and hitting someone in the elevator. There's also the possibility the bullet could hit something that would make their situation worse.
Third, even if they knew there was glass on the other side, you really think it would be smart to go firing a gun in the dark? Suppose it hit and injured or killed someone on the other side. The bullet would have had to hit something, and not knowing what it could be, firing would be extremely reckless.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Plus the bailiff probably didn't want to fire his weapon when he couldn't see who would be on the otherside of the window
After all we've seen what firing blindly does.
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
Meh. It's nothing compared to 2-3.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Bad Player wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
Meh. It's nothing compared to 2-3.
I don't follow your logic.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Herr Blondie wrote:
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
Meh. It's nothing compared to 2-3.
I don't follow your logic.
I think Bad's talking about Acro wanting to kill Regina over the accident.
Those are two different situations however. Acro wanted revenge on someone who was pretty much dead. Gregory Miles and Yanni were trapped in an elevator and short of air, but no one was dead. At least not yet.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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And I was meaning about fate intervening to offer Karma the killing chance.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Herr Blondie said it was a big coincidence that the power came on as soon as the gun fired and they passed out. But 2-3 was even more of a giant coincidence, so meh.
Spoiler: 2-3
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Herr Blondie wrote:
For all we know that could have been all that helped them survive the little bit of oxygen.
Plus the bailiff probably didn't want to fire his weapon when he couldn't see who would be on the otherside of the window
After all we've seen what firing blindly does.
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
Plus the bailiff probably didn't want to fire his weapon when he couldn't see who would be on the otherside of the window
After all we've seen what firing blindly does.
What I'm baffled about is how seconds after the gunshot, the power returns and the doors open.
I mean....talk about fate working against Gregory no wonder Karma thought he was meant to kill him.
I guess it was just bad karma... XD -shot-
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
OBJECTION!
First, they may have had their wits about them in the beginning, but did they really think there was a reason to panic? I don't know about you, but the idea of an elevator stopping combined with the power going out would scare me, but I'd never think that such a thing would result in an oxygen problem. Even now, it seems unrealistic to me.
Second, with it being as dark as it was, there was no way for them to know where the elevator had stopped. Firing a gun with a wall on the other side could result in the bullet ricocheting and hitting someone in the elevator. There's also the possibility the bullet could hit something that would make their situation worse.
Third, even if they knew there was glass on the other side, you really think it would be smart to go firing a gun in the dark? Suppose it hit and injured or killed someone on the other side. The bullet would have had to hit something, and not knowing what it could be, firing would be extremely reckless.
First, they may have had their wits about them in the beginning, but did they really think there was a reason to panic? I don't know about you, but the idea of an elevator stopping combined with the power going out would scare me, but I'd never think that such a thing would result in an oxygen problem. Even now, it seems unrealistic to me.
Second, with it being as dark as it was, there was no way for them to know where the elevator had stopped. Firing a gun with a wall on the other side could result in the bullet ricocheting and hitting someone in the elevator. There's also the possibility the bullet could hit something that would make their situation worse.
Third, even if they knew there was glass on the other side, you really think it would be smart to go firing a gun in the dark? Suppose it hit and injured or killed someone on the other side. The bullet would have had to hit something, and not knowing what it could be, firing would be extremely reckless.
Except you overlook something...
Elevators have an emergency acces hatch on the top! They can be opened from both sides in such cases as this. Being on a major fault zone, Yogi's training surely would've included protocol for such incidents as this. Bailiffs are fully-trained police officers, whose job includes rescue, or at least self-rescue, at times. In the state of California, they train their officers for all sorts of earthquake accident response. If he had kept his wits about him, Yogi would've been able to, even in the dark, open the access hatch. Also, he would have known that the biggest danger in an earthquake is asphyxiation due to being trapped beneath debris or stuck in an elevator.
Even without firing any rounds, he could have saved their lives. But he panicked.
And Mr. Bear, it's kinda pointless to make a claim like that in a thread about the discussion of such a thing. We know it happened, but we're discussing, retrospectively, how it could have been or could not have been prevented. My angle is it could have.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Bad Player wrote:
Not what I meant >_>
Herr Blondie said it was a big coincidence that the power came on as soon as the gun fired and they passed out. But 2-3 was even more of a giant coincidence, so meh.
Herr Blondie said it was a big coincidence that the power came on as soon as the gun fired and they passed out. But 2-3 was even more of a giant coincidence, so meh.
Spoiler: 2-3
Well for your one involves Russell making concious choices to trigger some of the events.
I mean for Karma he's just walking through the building gets shot and then a door opens revealing the shooter. A weapon lies on the floor in front of him.
Considering the power came on the lights would come on as the door opened in front of him. The only thing needed to make it more fateful is if a heavenly "AHHHHH" played over the building tannoy at that time.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
Elevators have an emergency acces hatch on the top! They can be opened from both sides in such cases as this. Being on a major fault zone, Yogi's training surely would've included protocol for such incidents as this. Bailiffs are fully-trained police officers, whose job includes rescue, or at least self-rescue, at times. In the state of California, they train their officers for all sorts of earthquake accident response. If he had kept his wits about him, Yogi would've been able to, even in the dark, open the access hatch. Also, he would have known that the biggest danger in an earthquake is asphyxiation due to being trapped beneath debris or stuck in an elevator.
Even without firing any rounds, he could have saved their lives. But he panicked.
Even without firing any rounds, he could have saved their lives. But he panicked.
I think you answered your own points. DL-6 might have been prevented if Yanni didn't panic, but the fact that he panicked is the entire point. There is no such thing as a Yanni that doesn't panic in an power-deprived elevator. It's like saying "DL-6 could have been avoided if it never happened."
After all, his lawyer was able to argue some kind of insanity/diminished capacity defense, which means there might have been more incidents in Yanni's past that proved he buckled under pressure easily. Taking Yanni's character into account, with the circumstances as they were there was no way for him *not* to panic, therefore making DL-6 unavoidable (assuming you don't change the entire structure of the event).
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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Gah-anyway, DL-6 was the police department's code for the murder case. And that murder was preventable. All are. The Earthquake that preceded it was not preventable, and maybe the panic of Yanni Yogi was not preventable. However, even with those factors aside, the murder was comitted by Manfred Von Karma as the power returned and the elevator doors opened, leading the way to the passengers' possible rescue. However, former prosecutor Von Karma chose to commit murder that day. If he had simply thought Gregory Edgeworth not worth the trouble, he'd still be a prosecutor and Gregory Edgeworth would still be alive, DL-6 prevented.
Sure, it happened. But it didn't have to. Murder is always something that doesn't have to happen. It does, though, because people choose that path for themselves.
The Defense rests, Your Honor.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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And you can't prove there was an emergency hatch in that elevator. Even if there was, maybe they could not reach it-Miles was a child, and Yanni was pretty short. And where exactly would they go from the top of the elevator?>_>
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Part of the elevator's design is, mandated by law, actually, a top hatch for rescue in case of fire or irreparable damage to the lift. It's along with the brakes that deploy if power is lost, so the multi-ton object does not end up crashing down several storeys to its passengers' demise. Add that to the training of law enforcement officers, Yanni Yogi was one of which, goes over these features, inside and out, in fault-zone areas, such as LA. If he had kept his wits about him, he'd have remembered that the oxygen supply in an elevator is rather tenuous because they're rather airtight. So, in cases where the elevator is stranded, one would be able to open the hatch. These elevators aren't extremely tall. Even though Yogi was short, if he hoisted Miles on his shoulders or gave Gregory a boost, they would have been able to open said hatch and gain access to a steady oxygen supply.
I can't say for sure if it's dictated by protocol, but I can say it's in their training, and that's what matters. But, what matters even more is Von Karma. Even if the men in the elevator had all simply lost consciousness due to hypoxia, the timing of macroscopic events, such as earthquakes and power supply, is not a factor. The power always would have returned in time to save them. Manfred Von Karma, even if he hadn't been shot, would have likely been intrigued by the opening elevator door across the way, a byproduct of human instinct. Thus, he would have, no matter what, looked at the elevator and seen its unconscious passengers. He may or may not have, at that point, tried to take Yogi's pistol and use it to get his revenge, but the way the events transpired, even if everything up until the doors opening transpired as they did, the choice was still in Manfred Von Karma's fully-capable hands to murder Gregory Edgeworth or not.
He chose to, and so, DL-6 occurred. If he hadn't, well I've said this before.
My arguement hinges on 2 points, independently. If one or the other had occurred, or both, DL-6 would have been prevented.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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He was clearly slightly more unstable than the others since Gregory tried to calm him down first while Miles simply sat in the corner.
He panicked and got angry at the nice lawyer rather than think clearly enough to escape. Simple it was unavoidable.
Also this is Karma we're talking about, he don't get mad, he gets even of course he'd destroy the man who crushed his perfect record.
I don't see how either of these are variable.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Well, there are lots of mysteries about the DL-6. It was preventable, sure. But it did happen.
Enough said.
Moo.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
I'm the one who's supposed to say that!
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Grancko wrote:
Ah, another one of these topics.
Well, there are lots of mysteries about the DL-6. It was preventable, sure. But it did happen.
Enough said.
Well, there are lots of mysteries about the DL-6. It was preventable, sure. But it did happen.
Enough said.
Well of course.
A better question would be "If DL-6 never happened, what would the world be like by the time of Ace Attorney?"
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
A better question would be "If DL-6 never happened, what would the world be like by the time of Ace Attorney?"
Well, Phoenix would have become a prosecuting attorney, Miles would have followed in his father's footsteps and the misfortune that befell the Fey family might never have happened.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Mike Christiansen wrote:
A better question would be "If DL-6 never happened, what would the world be like by the time of Ace Attorney?"
Well, Phoenix would have become a prosecuting attorney, Miles would have followed in his father's footsteps and the misfortune that befell the Fey family might never have happened.
I don't see why he would have become a prosecutor. The only reason he decided to become a laywer to face Edgeworth is because Edgeworth had sealed himself off from his past and the sorrow his father's death brought. If Edgeworth had become a defense attorney, like his father, and not gone through the entire ordeal with Von Karma, he'd probably have remained friends with Nick and Larry. Nick would probably not have pursued law at all, and the Feys' misfortune probably wouldn't have happened.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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then again, the police in pw are extremely incompetent.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
A better question would be "If DL-6 never happened, what would the world be like by the time of Ace Attorney?"
A question which has been discussed in at least 3 other threads before now, so let's not go that way again. If it interests you, feel free to go back a few pages.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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NinjaMonkey wrote:
Mike Christiansen wrote:
Well, Phoenix would have become a prosecuting attorney, Miles would have followed in his father's footsteps and the misfortune that befell the Fey family might never have happened.
I don't see why he would have become a prosecutor.
Said after Edgeworth's Not Guilty verdict:
Quote:
Man, if I only had known, I'd have become a prosecutor!
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
The things I said still hold true, though. First, you can't prove there was ever a hatch. This is a video game. And second, they might not have realized they were runing out of air until it was too late.
Well, since the game is modelled after the real world, one assumes it would have real-world features, such as glass panels on the doors, lighting inside, and various safety devices.
NinjaMonkey wrote:
Said after Edgeworth's Not Guilty verdict:
Man, if I only had known, I'd have become a prosecutor!
Quote:
Man, if I only had known, I'd have become a prosecutor!It's called a joke. Look into it.
L_J wrote:
the police also fails to do a body search of people involved for the missing bullet and other stuff and/or allows von karma to leave with a bloody shoulder (couldn't they at least smell the blood?), especially when he can be the culprit.
then again, the police in pw are extremely incompetent.
then again, the police in pw are extremely incompetent.
This is true.
Croik wrote:
Mike Christiansen wrote:
A better question would be "If DL-6 never happened, what would the world be like by the time of Ace Attorney?"
A question which has been discussed in at least 3 other threads before now, so let's not go that way again. If it interests you, feel free to go back a few pages.
And I never said it was a question I cared to ask, just that it's a better question.
If this thread is pointless, why is the site admin posting in it instead of locking it?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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As for Von Karma's escape, he most likely did so before they were even called. The hallway where he was must have been deserted, otherwise, he never would have been able to kill Gregory and make a run for it. It wouldn't be that hard to cover up his shoulder with his hand and run for the exit. Even if someone saw him, there'd be no reason to jump to any conclusions.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
As for Von Karma's escape, he most likely did so before they were even called. The hallway where he was must have been deserted, otherwise, he never would have been able to kill Gregory and make a run for it. It wouldn't be that hard to cover up his shoulder with his hand and run for the exit. Even if someone saw him, there'd be no reason to jump to any conclusions.
von karma is perfect, he wouldn't let any witnesses see him.
either way, the police (in real life) could have deduced he was in the courthouse or at least nearby when the murder happened, and then call him in as a potential witness or culprit. he has the motive, at the very least.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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Mike Christiansen wrote:
If this thread is pointless, why is the site admin posting in it instead of locking it?
As long as the discussion continues reasonably and doesn't stray off topic (i.e. "what if" scenarios) I don't see the harm in leaving it open for now.
Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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You're a cut apart from the rest, Croik, but I digress.
I guess, to answer the OP's question, yes, DL-6 could have been prevented. The world would be completely different if it had, but it could have been.
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Re: Was DL6 preventable?
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