The von Karma Challenge

Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:11 pm

FerdieLance

Fancase Maker

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Requirements:

One (1) Ace Attorney game you haven't played yet. For many of us, this will be AAI.
One (1) very sharp brain
Luck
Patience

The Challenge:

Complete an Ace Attorney game for the first time without hints or a walkthrough, with the following conditions:

1) Saving and restoring is used only to continue where you left off, not to return to an earlier game-state.
2) (Easy version:) Do not lose at any point.

or

3) (Medium version:) Maximum of one penalty or equivalent (Psyche-Lock errors, LOGIC errors, etc.) per case.

or

4) (Hard version:) Suffer no penalties or equivalents (Psyche-lock mistakes, LOGIC errors, etc.)

The hard variant seems difficult, but plausible, for PW: AA - certainly for the first four cases. It's a bit dicier with 1-5, and nearly impossible with JfA due to a huge amount of evidence ambiguity and leaps of logic. In T&T, the weirdness of the puzzles in 3-4 could cause problems, since some reasonable answers are just not accepted, and in AJ: AA, 4-3 could potentially make a player slip up badly.

Otherwise, it's almost always possible to avoid penalties by being absolutely certain of your answer.

Benefits:

1) Bragging rights, if anybody will believe you.
2) Greatly extended play-time. You'll be reading very carefully, and thinking every Present through thoroughly. This is also, arguably, more fun than just guessing evidence until something comes up.
3) No marathon sessions - instead, you play a while while your endurance holds up, and then stop. So the extended play-time is spread over weeks or months, meaning that while everyone else is suffering post-game letdown, you're still playing.

Drawbacks:

1) Spoilers.
2) If you fail in the hard variant, the medium variant, AND the easy variant, you might feel silly about all the time you spent trying to dodge penalties.
3) If the puzzles are badly designed, it's nearly impossible.

Any takers? I'm going to try this when AAI comes out.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:41 am

Acey Enn

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That actually sounds like a lot of fun. I may wind up trying it with AAI, but I may decide not to. We'll see.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:48 am

Yaragorm

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This is actually how I try to go about every game, though most of the time I chicken out after the first case. I'll definitely try again this year for AAI.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:09 am

shadowofedgeworth

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FerdieLance wrote:

Drawbacks:
3) If the puzzles are badly designed, it's nearly impossible.

This pretty effectively sums up why I don't think I'm going to try this when I get AAI. I can't count the number of times I was SURE I knew what I was doing, then the next thing I knew I was getting a penalty. Or worse, I had NO CLUE what the contradiction was. Normally I enjoy self-imposed challenges in video games, but I think I'll pass on this one.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:28 am

FerdieLance

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soe: I can't count the number of times that happened... unless we exclude JfA and cases 1-5 and 3-4, in which case, I can count the number of times I've really been penalized because of bad puzzle design. On one hand, even, if we exclude multiple penalties from the same puzzle, such as trying to figure out exactly how the game wanted me to express my feelings about that snowmobile.

When I get penalized, it's generally because I didn't really think about what the unambiguously contradictory evidence was, and just went for something that seemed 'pretty contradictory.'

It might be a useful for the first person her to complete the game to suggest 'exemptions.' Specifically, if we decide that a puzzle had two or more optimal (not just plausible, but actually optimal) solutions, and the game penalized for one, the penalty doesn't count.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:42 pm

Croik

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This is going to be especially hard for AAI considering you can get a penalty not just during confrontations, but during the investigation as well. Sometimes the logic system will give you three options that have to go together, but penalize you if you don't put them in the right order. And there are a few contradictions I can think of already (in case 3 especially) that are very heavily veiled. I'll be pretty impressed if anyone is able to go through the whole game penalty-free on their first go.

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:41 pm

FerdieLance

Fancase Maker

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Quote:

Sometimes the logic system will give you three options that have to go together, but penalize you if you don't put them in the right order.

Okay, that, right there, seems like a candidate for an exemption, if there's something arbitrary about the order. If there's real logic to the ordering, though...

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:46 pm

Bad Player

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Might as well do it for the extended playtime :P

I'm going to point out that there are lots of fancases that one could do this for :P Not all are very good, in general or for this sort of thing, but just bringing it up...

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:57 am

Regy Rusty

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I'll certainly try, but I'll almost undoubtedly get impatient and just guess at some point. Still, I think I'll make a conscious effort to avoid that and see if I can manage this!

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:00 am

Burninator

Good 'til the last drop.

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Oh sweet. I completed a challenge without even knowing it.

I just got through AA without any help.

Huzzah!

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:48 am

AoN

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I already completed this challenge unknowingly with games 1 and 3. I actually downloaded GK and got through one part of GK-1 without understanding a bit, and still not saving and repeating. I was just....lucky, I guess. :payne:

I've been away for far too long.
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Bummer.

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:36 pm

Akbey Hicks

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Well, that'll be really hard, but I'll do it! No continues at all or saves just to go back! I was able to beat all of the games without a game over or GUILTY verdict.

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:03 pm

Gil

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Haha, I should totes try this with AJ.
:0

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:02 pm

MercuryKitten

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Quote:

Regy Rusty
1:50
Has Ferdie told you about his "Von Karma Challenge"?

Mercurykitten
1:50
Nope.
1:51
...He's not attempting to take on Manfred von Karma as an alter ego but best his character design in murderous assholery is he

Regy Rusty
1:51
Basically it's an extra challenge of a way to play an AA game for the first time
1:51
XD
1:51
No

I want to try this since it sounds fun and usually my marathoning makes me not realize exactly what happened in a case if I wasn't certain and just started guessing at random at some point. At least trying to seriously think things through will help me understand exactly what the hell is going on. And maybe it'll improve my detective skills!

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Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:35 pm

EvianBubble

OBJECTION!

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I usually try to do this anyways and usually only get help when I'm REALLY stuck. Then I feel guilty afterwards, haha (but for some reason I keep on doing it even though I know I shouldn't ...)
Count me in for the challenge! (I'll probably only be able to finish easy, haha :payne:

)

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:58 pm

Sammitehninja

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Oh, I have to try this! I usually end up getting stuck somewhere along the lines and have to go to GameFAQ's ^_^' But hey, at least that means I won't be done the game in a week.

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:13 pm

Noiryn

Pfft, yeah.

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Easy mode I've done already; I seriously hate cheating, and I was always one penalty away from a guilty verdict in AA. : P But medium... Count me in! Hopefully I can trust my logic enough to even uncover the most hidden truth!! *dramatic pose*

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:44 am

Bad Player

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Hey, does not getting any penalties in my 4th runthrough of AA for the countdown count?

Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!

Re: The von Karma Challenge

Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:26 am

Regy Rusty

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Bad Player wrote:

Hey, does not getting any penalties in my 4th runthrough of AA for the countdown count?

No, of course not.