This is an issue that I have thought of just recently, and felt like sharing it with you guys.
If you haven't figured it out from the title, this thread is about Franziska. More specifically, her reaction whenever someone around her makes a reference to sex.

We all know Phoenix Wright is a somewhat child-friendly game (well, aside from the blood and the emotional issues and philosofical problems...) okay, so it's not THAT child-friendly. But atleast it's not too gory or pornographical.
However, when the game does make one of it's few golden references to sex, have you noticed Franziska's reaction?

I cannot quote word-to-word when it happens, but I do remember two instances.





Many could argue that this is just Franziska being very strict tutored about what is appropriate in Court, but could this have some deeper meaning?
Could it rather be that Franziska is very shy and unsure when it comes to that subject, and uses her strict outside (and whip) to make it seem like it is not appropriate talking about, rather than her not feeling comfortable talking about it?

Think about it. Franziska became a prosecutor at the age of 13. Which means that she must have started law very early, and school ever earlier. She have to had studied 24/7. She had no time having fun with friends or hobbies.

And what did other girls do? That's right. Fool around with boys.

I belive Franziska reacts this way because she has heard about boyfriends and all there is to it, but had never experienced anything more than studying and prosecuting. She does however have to be strong on the outside, therefore whipping away any mention of this.

Is my theory plausible?
Discuss.

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Hmm...that's interesting. It's kind of along the same lines as why people consider Edgeworth to be asexual, right? Sexuality stifled by a strict upbringing focused on nothing but the law since a young age. Except, Franziska has an aggressive (and maybe jealous?) reaction to it instead of an oblivious and uninterested one (ie, Edgeworth's desire just fizzled out, while Franziska kept hers bottled inside).

I could definitely see her as being secretly too insecure or uncomfortable to talk about it, for any number of reasons. Shy? Maybe. But, most of all, she simply doesn't know anything about it -- and therefore she can't demonstrate perfection and knowledgeableness on the subject. She'd only want to have discussions that she can dominate, not ones that put her in the position of being on the outside of a common experience.



When I opened this thread, I kind of thought it would be about her potentially being lesbian. I've always seen her as a sort of feminist (and, even then, maybe just more of a self-empowerment-ist, because I can't recall her ever standing up for another woman xD), but, yeah, I'm really not sure about her actually being attracted to women -- certainly not to men, but, considering now her averseness to sexuality in general, probably not women either...

...Yet, then again, are you suggesting that maybe she does desire some sort of romance in her life, but just won't admit it or talk about it in public? (Since I used to ship Franziska with Adrian and now currently with Larry, I guess I do somehow see her wanting a relationship.)
Kind of like, in AAI, with the

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As a brief aside, I'll start by mentioning that one element frequently thrown into the "Franziska is definitely a lesbian" argument that somewhat grates on me is the occasional equivocation of feminism with lesbianism, which seems only a few steps above denoting that Franny must prefer women "because she wears her hair short" or "because she has an aggressive personality" or even "because she walks around in public with a whip." The fact that Franziska possesses certain personality traits that might be traditionally or stereotypically defined as "masculine" (such as her emphasis on pursuing a career or her tendencies towards violence) has no corresponding relationship to her sexuality, just as an exceptionally "feminine" character (who plays with dolls, wears flowing dresses, and wants to play the role of housewife) isn't necessarily straight.

Actually, it could be argued that it's somewhat offensive for us to associate any personality traits with gender at all, but that's getting into a sociological discussion about the evolution of society that's entirely beyond the scope of this thread. Certainly, we wouldn't argue that all misogynists are gay, so the notion that Franny's preferential behavior against whipping women (compared to her frequent whipping of men) is strong evidence that she's a lesbian is equally flawed. If anything, it's solid evidence that, as a young woman in a "man's world" who's been influenced by the Von Karma philosophy, she's become a virulent feminist who overcompensates by taking out her aggression against men.

Please do note that the above statement is not intended to represent a definitive argument against Franziska preferring women: I'll concede there is certainly in-game evidence in JFA that supports a conclusion that she'd find Adrian attractive. But that evidence should come from lines of dialogue that support an emotional connection or intimacy with Adrian, not stereotypical assumptions about "activities or traits only lesbians would engage in." Lesbians, bisexuals, and heterosexuals come in all different personality types and enjoy all different kinds of activities.

(For the record, the exact same argument could be used against conceptualizing Edgeworth and Franziska as asexuals just because, in a completely professional working environment, they display little tolerance for overtly sexual behavior. The world of Ace Attorney is actually arguably more inundated with brazen displays of sexuality than the average interactions at the average law firm, where you won't run into many people like or even hear sexist comments referring to the appearance of female witnesses from judges like . Edgeworth and Franziska's desire to enforce a bright line separating their careers from their sexualities -- whatever their sexualities may be -- seems entirely reasonable in this light. Again, they may be asexuals, but their awkwardness in the context of a trial or a murder investigation alone seems insufficient evidence to cite.)

I think any true and objective analysis of comes back inconclusive. It really depends on the preferences of the gamer and the gamer's own personal preferences in interpreting scenes that are left deliberately vague. If you're like me, you'll interpret the dialogue in "Tulip Scene" in the hospital (between and ) as evidence of mutual attraction. But the dialogue is so vague between and , not to mention between and , and and and practically everyone else, that several different possible explanations exist for everyone's behavior.

(In fact the only couple I consider remotely canon is and , and even then, there are plenty of Gumshoe fans advocating alternate pairings for him.)

One last note: one element the shippers (even me!) often miss in concocting their "OTPs" is that in the real world, most single men and women actually harbor multiple crushes or simultaneous feelings on multiple individuals they interact with frequently and passionately with (positively or negatively.) When single, it's rare for you or I to have feelings for one other individual at the absolute exclusion of all others.

Meaning perhaps the most realistic interpretation of is that (if she were bisexual or pansexual, for example) she dabbled in finding , , , and attractive during her "best" or "most intimate" moments of conversation and connection with each. (And she probably found them all quite unattractive at moments as well.) In regards to sexuality, it would be common for a person Franny's age to have moments of doubt (regardless of how she defined herself.) As shippers we often like to compartmentalize our preferred pairings into easily definable, monogamous and committed relationships, but the real world often provides precious little resolution. Real relationships are so complex that even if Franny were in a canon relationship, it'd still be likely for her to experience moments where she found another man or woman irresistibly attractive. Such is life!

...W-whoa. @_@ This is why I love C-R. I can't believe how deep the discussions get.

I admit that I do love to idealize the concept of OTPs. I've never been in a real-life relationship, so I go by the way I wish it worked: that one character is destined for one other, and only one.
...I...I'm more like a certain than I ever thought I was. And, since I don't ship Phoenix/Maya, I've always been annoyed by her single-mindedness about the couple and her insistence that Phoenix look at no one else. I guess I'll have to use that as a personal motivation to start seeing characters looking at multiple other characters as love interests for what it is: reality.

In the end, since we can't base it on out-of-game stereotypes about sexual preferences or even on in-game hints of simple attraction, like you said, shipping (and character analysis with regards to romance) is a ridiculously subjective thing with no right answer. ...Still, though, it's a lot of fun to try!

It's just that...the tough thing about Franziska is that she hardly even gives any usable hints to work with -- because, as the first post of the thread argues, she whips away any discussion of sexuality...theoretically, because she's too uncomfortable and insecure to talk about it, due to her unusual upbringing.

However, you mentioned that that might not be the case: her violent aversion to the subject of sexuality could be just a mark of professionalism, in that she (unlike a lot of the other crazy characters of the AA cast xD) sees the courtroom as an inappropriate place to discuss such a topic, not necessarily any indication that she has hidden feelings about the topic.

So, if not that, can I ask what you do take as hints about Franziska's sexuality? (In the sense of your personal interpretation, since taking it in the sense of reality or canon apparently just leads to a dead end. D= Or rather, too many open ends!) You seem to have really strong opinions toward Phoenix/Franziska, so there must be something besides the (admittedly adorable~) tulip scene that makes you think Franziska is interested in a relationship at all.

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This is a very common phenomenon and one you shouldn't feel embarrassed to confess. We've all been raised on our fair share of Disney movies and fairy tales, after all. Children raised by a married couple (as opposed to a single parent) are particularly apt to fall prey into the false assumption that their parents always and exclusively loved only each other with all their hearts. Our parents try to sell us on this "true love" philosophy too, while attempting to keep our young minds "pure" and "uncorrupted" by the knowledge of sexual desire and how hormones can really toy with our minds.

Heck, Franziska von Karma's issues with sex and sexuality arguably stem from a similar phenomenon; Manfred likely raised her and Edgey to instinctively repress such thoughts. He would probably articulate that emotions would cloud one's objective logical judgment, and that a Von Karma's puritanical code of honor and obsessive dedication to perfectionism required an unyielding stance of professionalism. In a sense, Manfred had a point. (Assuming that, like Manfred, you actually valued self-interested perfectionism over compassionate moral virtues or the pursuit of an objective truth.)

Back to our parents, though: the fact remains (as unsettling as it may be) that even those of us raised by a married couple nonetheless were raised by two unique individuals who, throughout the course of their many years of matrimony, were inevitably tempted by sexual and/or romantic thoughts of coworkers, friends, and celebrities. If your parents nonetheless have stayed together, it's less likely to be through a shipper's OTP conceptualization of ceaseless passion and eternal bliss, and moreso because your parents have remained committed through sheer perseverance through passionate and loveless times alike. There are moments when couples literally have to force themselves to remain on the straight-and-narrow path.

Nonetheless, and objectively speaking, I actually think the shipper's fascination with "One True Pairing" highlights a societal danger we indulge in: by buying into this fairy-tale notion of "true love" and by refusing to confront our realistically hormonally unstable states, we set ourselves up for the skyrocketing divorce rates and infidelity issues our populaces have faced.

Please, please do not interpret this statement as a rationalization or an endorsement of unethical behavior. I'm not saying that men or women should feel they have an excuse to cheat. I am saying that we need to teach children that relationships are less about "falling in passionate love" and more about "making sacrifices and compromises, resisting temptations, and choosing to remain loyal to our partners even when the passion isn't present." Our children should know that even after they meet Prince(ss) Charming, they're still going to share "special moments" of chemistry with other attractive (wo)men. And it's quite natural to feel that way.

Of course, when everything's said and done, this all is coming from an avowed + shipper who finds it difficult to practice what he preaches. We all find the notion of "one true love" irresistible. We all want to believe our favorite couple has a chance to live "happily ever after." And within the contexts of our subjective fantasies there's no problem with writing wish-fulfillment fanfiction or drawing idealistic fanart.

A question like the one posted by the topic creator, however, seems to be asking for an objective analysis of Franziska as a character, and when we're analyzing Franziska objectively, that's when all the various shipper arguments begin to unravel. As a single woman who is canonically unattached to anyone, Franziska would probably struggle with moments of attraction to various physically, intellectually or socioeconomically attractive men (if she's heterosexual,) women (if she's a lesbian,) people (if she's bisexual or pansexual,) or not struggle at all. (If she's asexual.)

To really sum the entirety of my argument up: I just personally find Franziska's distaste for overt sexual expression in the workplace more a personality quirk (related to her upbringing) than a sign of asexuality, in the same sense that I find Franziska's greater violent propensity towards men more about an extreme and immature feminist reaction to a sexist, male-centric society than a sign of lesbianism. There's really absolutely no objective hint in the context of Franny's dialogue with any character that can definitively answer, or even provide an undeniable clue, the question of her sexuality. Capcom probably deliberately wants to keep such answers as vague as possible, as every character's popularity increases as more unique and viable interpretations exist.

(Sorry for the walls of text. I like to pretend I'm smart, even though I'm clearly not. )



It sounds like you really want to read that five-page essay.
It's something I'd feel more comfortable PMing than sharing with the masses, as I don't want to post even longer walls of text that could inadvertently alienate me from those who prefer other pairings. I'm hoping I can become good friends with at least some stalwart + and + supporters here!

To sum it up in the least antagonistic manner possible, though: since all positive, reinforcing dialogue between characters can be interpreted as evidence of romantic interest, my essay concentrated less on the specific lines shared between Franziska and Phoenix and more on the overarching theme of Ace Attorney as a whole. (Sort of akin to asking "What is Ace Attorney really about? How are these characters growing and maturing?")

I came to the conclusion that + and + had the strongest cases of representing the overarching theme. From there it more or less came down to evidence that I believed suggested that was heterosexual, combined with a few scenes where I felt you could interpret and as displaying a certain degree of chemistry. Since the narrative of Ace Attorney benefits most if the relationship matches the moral of the story, + won out.

(As a brief aside, I actually was ambivalent towards when I first played through JFA, and it wasn't until I began thinking all this out that I really began to appreciate her. And now she's one of my two favorite characters!)

And, yes, believe it or not that's the short version. The sheer unbridled length of this post is another reason why I'd prefer to only PM the longer version to people who'd actually want to scroll through the walls of inane text and read it.

Again: I like to pretend I'm smart, but I'm really kooky as Meekins!

Fucking hell there should be a tl;dr warning in the title.

Like everyone in AA, I just assume Franny is bisexual. It makes pairing fun, some people take it way too seriously XD

Also, you don't have to have had a boyfriend to know about sex and stuff.

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Well, no. Of course not. But in Franziska's case, she had been alienated from this subject thanks to Manfred, and I think that's what it's about, rather than her not having a boyfriend.

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She has a repressed sexuality, has a fetish of fat old nuns in hot baths, and she's insecure.

She's probably bi curious, she probably had a crush on miles when she was 13.

...xD Okay, the fetish part, no, but hey, this part I can believe!

I've never shipped Miles romantically with Franziska, because I see their relationship as a strictly brotherly/sisterly bond.

But, in their early years of being raised together, I can see that she might have conceivably developed some interest in him, because he was the first boy that she was ever allowed to get relatively close to. Which ties back to the whole sexuality-repressed-by-Manfred issue.

Somehow I'm not sure if Edgeworth reciprocated this interest, though. Different people could deal with that sort of repression in different ways, and, for some reason (probably because of the way he acts as an adult), I see Edgeworth as the type whose desires would fade away (rather than build up) in favor of his complete focus on the law... and he was probably clueless about her feelings, if she had any.

Also, over time, I think that Franziska probably got over that crush as they became more like brother and sister. But she maintained the same sort of sexual frustrations and curiosity and started taking it out on everybody else, as the opening post suggests.

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That's a pretty interesting analysis, Xray. I always assumed she simply wasn't that interested in having a relationship, because of how busy she was. (her father had really high expectations of her and everything else, after all)

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Heh. This is interesting, because Franzy and Edgeworth has so different personalities.
Yes, I can see that too. While Franziska is getting more and more interested about this subject her father represses all thought of it. Meanwhile, she has a young, handsome man in her enviroment, her step-brother, who was oblivious towards her! She must have atleast gotten thoughts. Now, the question is, how much did Miles and Franziska interact during their childhood? Going by in-game dialouge, they're very formal towards each other, but at the same time does act like brother and sister sometimes. This of course could just be a throwback to the education issue again, that they were teached that you should act formal towards anyone, even if it's your sibling.
Also, I wonder if she ever saw Edgy shirtless...

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Can't we just say that she avoids discussion about it in court because it's, you know, unprofessional and she's kind of, you know, serious about her job? I know it might sound a little far fetched and a bit crazy, but I swear I've seen this happen with real people who were professional with their real jobs.

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/thread

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