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Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
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Author:  grim_tales [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
I'm up to Case 4 of PW:AA now, obviously I played it before but what strikes me is how interesting the Phoenix/Edgeworth relationship is.
Put in spoilers just to be safe:
Spoiler:
Now, our Edgey is a prosecuting attorney, so he's supposed to be the bad guy, but as early as 1-3, he actually works with Nick (kind of) and helps him which catches him off guard ("I can't believe Edgeworth is helping me!"). When I first played the game, and Maya asked what the deal with Nick and Edgeworth was, I thought it implied homo-erotic subtext :D


IMO they are 2 sides of a coin. They are rivals, and BOTH friends and enemies. Does this go back to
Spoiler:
the flashback when Phoenix was young, when Miles helped him when no-one else would, also 1-4 and 2-4 sort of turns Edgeworth's and Nick's perceived roles on it's head. (In 1-4, Phoenix knows his defendant is innocent even though he's his rival, and in 2-4, Phoenix knows his defendant is guilty).
Author:  KingMobUK [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
I think it's even more complex than them being two sides of a coin, to be honest. I don't think that they are really easily split into opposites. In fact I think they're very similar at the core and it's merely the different directions that their lives went in at an early age that has made differences appear. Let's not forget that in the first place it was E who had the high ideals and in fact does get them back fairly swiftly and then passes them on to P over the course of games 1 & 2.

My view is that they are soul mates, regardless of whether you think that would extend to the bedroom. I know from personal experience that it is entirely possible to have a deeply intimate relationship that is not sexual (but may involve other physical closeness that observers could mistake as sexual) and that is generally how I view the two of them. (Obviously that doesn't mean that such a relationship couldn't turn into something sexual over time, but I think it would take some time). Neither will be able to achieve their full potential without the other because they are co-dependent (in a good way) on each other.
Author:  grim_tales [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
I certainly think P & E have a respect and admiration for each other, whether they want to admit it or not, this doesnt mean there is something going on in the bedroom IMO. But Japanese anime has been more comfortable with its depiction of homosexulaity than US/EU comics.
Strangely "a deeply intimate relationship that is not sexual" is how I view P & M (Maya) but anyway...
About them being opposites, thats a good point, it reminds me of Red Dwarf and Arnold/Ace Rimmer. Up until a certain point, Arnold/Ace had identical lives but they just went down very different paths.
Oops, in my first post I meant in 1-4 Phoenix knows Miles is innocent. D'oh!
Author:  KingMobUK [ Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
Oh I wouldn't disagree with you about Phoenix and Maya's relationship either. I do think it is made quite plain that it goes beyond sidekick/goofy boss with them too. I think Phoneix is clearly portrayed as someone who is very much defined and shaped by his relatonships with other people. I think at heart he's actually quite lonely to be honest. Just not by choice, like Edgeworth.
Author:  grim_tales [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
Hey,

I'm replaying 1-4 now.
In 1-1, Nick says he became an attorney to "help a friend" - and in 1-4 he says he became an attorney basically to meet Edgeworth again.
Does he mean Larry or Edgey in 1-1?
Author:  KingMobUK [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
He means Edgey. It crops up again later in another game in conversation.

It is in regard to how far Edgey has strayed from the path he once had as a child to emulate his Dad. Phoenix views this as indicating that Edgeworth needs help.

Phoenix had already been working in Mia's office as a Defense Attorney when he got Larry's case. He just hadn't been to trial yet.
Author:  grim_tales [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
Thanks.
It's interesting that now I'm playing 1-4 again, the events of 2-4 mean even more and come together. In 1-4, Edgey performs an unfamilliar role (being a defendant) and in 2-4 it's Phoenix's turn since
Spoiler:
he is, in a way, the "prosecution" in that case
Author:  Allucinari [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Phoenix and Edgey: The Best of Enemies?
The great thing about subtext is, you can read it however you want... And there is plenty of subtext to be read in PW.

Now, onto the main topic at hand, I've got to support the opinion that the two of them are very much similar. We've seen that Edgeworth is very much devoted to justice, we know that Phoenix is as well.
I imagine Edgeworth would have led a very different life and become a very different man than our magenta suited, cravat rocking, sarcastically delicious prosecutor (not that we'd want him any other way) had he not been raised by von Karma. Phoenix, would have ended up very different as well, had he not had his seemingly uneventful, but happy childhood.
It is also quite apparent that Phoenix cares a lot about Edgeworth. He continually states that he chose the path of a defense attorney to help Edgeworth during the time that Edgey is accused of presented falsified evidence, leading witnesses, and whatnot.. He does this because Phoenix knows that Edgeworth isn't a bad person and believes in him entirely. It's certainly the stuff that slash is made of. It's also the stuff that a deep friendship that lasts from childhood to adulthood is made of.
Edgeworth learns an important lesson from Phoenix and in exchange helps teach him the lesson that a record cannot be perfect, that one must accept that the system will find the guilty and innocent, and that they are mere representatives of that system.
They've definitely got more of a competitive friendship than anything.
Spoiler: PW3-5
You don't charter a private jet to come help your enemies. Even if you do have tons of money, you just don't do that.
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