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Why is Maya so childish?
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Author:  grim_tales [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Why is Maya so childish?

When I first played the 1st game, I found the fact acted about 10 years old sometimes really, really annoying (don't worry I love her now really :maya: ). Now I think her childishness is equal parts endearing and annoying at times.
Anyway, I was wondering why she was written liike that? To exaggerate the older/younger person dynamic or to make her seem like a fangirl (early on, that was how I would read her as).
Could it be as she's training to be a medium and all, she had to grow up quickly in some respects, and so through her love of Steel Samurai, ramen (?), burgers etc, she's reliving the childhood she hasnt really had?
I mean :pearl: has an excuse as she really IS a little kid, and when it's revealed Maya likes Steel Samurai, I remembered when I was about 17/18 and used to watch Pokénon all the time, and play the games. Then I grew up :D

Author:  Mikker [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Mia has had to become the mother when Misty dissapeared. She does a bad job at that, and Maya never actually grows that much up :P

I just can't imagine that it's implied that Maya originally was living on her own. Can she even do that?

Author:  axl99 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

With Aunty Morgan's training from hell... Possibly.

Author:  Ryshili [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

One thing, it's her personality. She was just "born" with a positive outlook on life and such. I think she just has a natural nack for being mischievous and all.

I also think she's just trying to have fun. Phoenix is pretty damn easy to tease, and hey, she's 17/18 and stuff, why not? I'm 19 and I still act much like a child, but can act mature when the time calls for it.

I personally like her personality, and it just adds some comedic relief to the game, so that's probably why they have her. Comedy. She makes a good duo with Phoenix.

Author:  grim_tales [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Oh no, I like her personality a lot too now, and she does indeed play off Nick well :) Initially I just found her annoying. Maybe I didnt know what to expect.
She brings comedy to the game as you say, and can also be heartfelt. It's true she wants to be do well at what she does and get Nick to accept her (hence her reverse psychology "I'm useless" speeches), she really does want to help, I guess.

Author:  Ryshili [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I didn't find her annoying at all, which I should have because she acts like my best friend. XD

Author:  ParrotMan01 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

She's most likely uneducated...,but it's just a theory.

Author:  Nego [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I don't think she's childish. I think she just has a mind of child and she thinks like a child. In my opinion, childish person is like common teenagers drinking cider, smoking and swearing around. Also being selfish and bragging about own talents is pretty childish.
Maya has none of those and she is sweet and naïve. I don't think there is anything wrong about her behavior. Actually, I love it.

Author:  EricaP [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

axl99 wrote:
With Aunty Morgan's training from hell... Possibly.


And the Blue Badger Summonings From Her Ass....

Author:  Pineapple Box [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I personally don't think "childish" is really the best term to describe Maya with. A big part of her character is the contrast between the way she acts and just how mature she actually is, considering the things she's gone through in the past, the obstacles she deals with over the course of the story, etc., etc. The fact that most people in the game don't see that Maya has the capacity to be mature, to understand things, and to actually be serious. It isn't the same type of behavior that a lot of people associate with maturity (i.e., Mia), and so it tends to be overlooked.

Maya's maturity is incorporated into her personality (bubbly, cheerful, OMFGYAAAY, etc.); therefore, she expresses it differently. If you want an example, take any scene immediately after a kidnapping/whatever and look at how she reacts. It would make the most sense for her to be crying/distressed/sappy/etc., but instead we have a Maya that comes back smiling and babbling and cracking jokes all over the place. She understands that her situation caused people to worry HARDCORE, and by staying strong and keeping the happy face, she's trying to ease all the anxiety and show them that she's all right (as opposed to just repeating it over and over and over again like some people tend to do).
Spoiler: 3-5
It's especially noticeable here, since you get to see Maya's entire range of emotions. Immediately after Mia talks with her (i.e., during the cross examination) Maya's obviously an emotional wreck (which, given the circumstances, is completely understandable). But it isn't long until she's almost completely back to herself, and, as Edgeworth points out, she knows that other people are hurting too, and by staying strong, she can help them (and, perhaps, herself) deal.
As for everything else (hamburgers, Steel Samurai, etc.) I'd say that's just the way she is. She's the type of person to get obsessive over things easily, and since her imagination is gigantic, well.... We have the Maya we know and love. A lot of what she says and does is for comedic benefit, yes, but it also shows complexity of character (and, for what it's worth, contrasts her with Mia).

Plus Maya's just awesome. There's that.

Author:  KingMobUK [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I like her. I used to have a friend like her and she was amazingly "up" to be around. She was also not lacking in education, but maybe hadn't seen a lot of life outside school. I just think of Maya like that. I think she'd be cool to have around and I enjoyed writing her in a fic 'cos I think she has a wicked sense of humour.

Author:  Raelle [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I--I sort of want your hand in marriage, Pineapple Box. <333

Author:  grim_tales [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Great post, Pineapple. You're right about the kidnapping. I mean, she doesn't sit crying all the time, she assesses where she is, and works out how to escape, and is very mature there.
I apologise, I didnt mean to say she's annoying NOW, possibly "childish" isnt the best word, but she gains great pleasure from small things and is often very happy. I don't mean "happy" I mean HAPPY. For these reasons I'd love to have a friend like Maya in real life :)
It's interesting to contrast her with our Nick, because as you say Maya can be bubbly/happy most of the time and then serious, whereas Nick can be serious (outwardly) but he's hardly always a model adult.

Author:  musouka [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Raelle wrote:
I--I sort of want your hand in marriage, Pineapple Box. <333


Yeah, I was coming in here to say the exact same thing, and you beat me to it!

Author:  DefenseNeverRests [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I would say Maya is a strong individual.
Spoiler:
She's been a suspect in murder twice and she's been kidnapped.
She held out strong throughout all of those events unlike other people would. A lot of people would give up. But, as Mia said to Phoenix in 1-2, "Maya never gave up.". This is evidence that she isn't childish, per se. As Pineapple Box stated, it's her personality to be bubbly and cheerful, ect. To sum it up, she is an optomistic teenager who just likes to have fun.

Author:  grim_tales [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Nowt wrong with being optimistic is there?

Author:  Phoenix [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I have two friends who are like Maya. I love her personality, so i was annoyed that she was dumped for Ema in Ace Attorney Case 5.

Author:  grim_tales [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Ema seemed like a Maya clone to me, very enthusiastic, telling Nick to enjoy life more etc.. Nick comments that "this all sounds horribly familliar" - is that an in-joke or a dig at the writers do you think?
Spoiler:
I mean he also says "Two sisters... one a lawyer.. could this be a coincidence? I mean, they're just like...." [Pictures Ema looking sad... there is something familliar about her. Pictures Maya looking sad...]

But like Maya she does have her serious moments too.

Author:  Dr. E. Coli [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I'm like Maya myself, I always stick to the "kid" stuff though I'm 17 XD

I think it's just her personality and her tastes, really. Just because she acts younger doesn't mean she can't live on her own or something.

I think I'd like her less if she was more mature, really.

Author:  Rebel Vanguard [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I think she was so childish because she was never exposed to the outside world.

But sheltered after her mother ran off.

But still it's what made Phoenix Wright so go figure!

Author:  grim_tales [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

That's like Pearls then. She was never exposed to the outside world either.
There's nothing wrong with acting younger than you are - I'm 25, I used to watch Pokémon et al when I was 17 :D
I didnt mean to say I don't like Maya, I do like her! Just trying to start a debate.

Author:  Pineapple Box [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Y-You people so nice to me. :keiko:

I don't think Maya was "sheltered" in Pearl's sense of the word, since by the time Phoenix meets her she's obviously already obsessed with all kinds of things outside of her own culture. It could be more of an isolationism thing - Maya's life centered around her sister and her aunt and her cousin for a long time, and the idea of having a "friend" outside of her family (like Phoenix) might be a little foreign to her. That might've influenced how she acted around him early on, but the fact that she's still acting like that by the end of T&T (after she'd been interacting/making friends with all kinds of people) says that it's at least a real part of her personality.

grim_tales wrote:
I didnt mean to say I don't like Maya, I do like her! Just trying to start a debate.
Don't worry, we understand. Plus you gave me an outlet to babble so hey. :scientific:

Author:  JackAttack [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Some people never change, they stay young at heart and act like kids. I'm one of them :D

Author:  AngryBaer [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

You know, I probably would never recognize her without her personality. I hear "Hey Nick!" or something along those lines, I'll probably think it's her. Or Larry. But we all know how Larry acts.

Author:  Croik [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I'm not much of a Maya fan myself. She wasn't so bad at first, but I think her antics get old after a while. Everything is "LET'S STEAL IT!" or "LET'S SNEAK IN!" The localization did a great job of keeping her interactions with Phoenix somewhat fresh, but by GS3 I just didn't find it that funny anymore.

Though the one thing that really bugs me is the "She's being strong for Pearl's sake!" I mean, it's sweet, and it does tell us that she's a strong person. But it also prevents us from seeing what should be really emotional moments for her. Even if Mia tells Phoenix later, "Oh yeah, Maya--she's having a hard time right now" it doesn't quite feel as genuine as if Phoenix sat down and had a talk with her.

Spoiler: "GS3-5"
Especially at the end of GS3, with her mother. Misty was murdered, but we still don't get to see Maya really absorb that shock. The first time I played it, I couldn't help but think the writer's were just making an excuse. The case was over--they didn't want to spend an hour comforting Maya over such a devastating loss. It's much easier to just say "I'm not sad--I still have a family!" and "She must not want Pearl to see her upset and feel guilty." But by then it was starting to feel a little creepy to me.

It's like case 5 threw out so many horrible things with Misty being murdered, and Maya almost dying, and Godot's plan going awry leading to his own eventual death...but they still tried to swing it around and end on a high note, since it was the last game. But all it left me with was a feeling of, "Bwuh?? That's...it?"

Author:  Pineapple Box [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

... Personally, I probably would have enjoyed an extra conversation between Phoenix and Maya, but I'm happy with the way things were handled. I don't think it's strange at all for Maya to "try and be strong for Pearl's sake" since it seems to me that she's trying to be the same kind of "big sister" to Pearl as Mia was to her.
Spoiler: 3-5
I don't think she was ever "over" Misty's death in any sense, just that she was putting her own feelings on hold to comfort Pearl. It's perfectly plausible that Maya would break down later and really mourn her mother (an extra scene would have been good, a la the airport scene). But there's nothing wrong with wanting to end on a happier note, and hoping that players will give Maya's character the benefit of the doubt.

... Plus, I don't exactly think we can expect Maya to have the same reaction over Misty's death as she did over Mia's. Yes, Misty was her mother, and yes it's awful and likely traumatizing the way it happened, but it's been seventeen years. Maya herself says that she doesn't even remember her mother. Mia was more of a mother to Maya than Misty ever was, and I think Maya's reaction after she lost her sister was more poignant than anything the writers could have done with Misty's death.
Sure, the writers probably wanted a happy ending, and sure, they probably thought they didn't have enough time to flesh out Maya's reaction since lol it's the end of the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if Maya's reaction was just as much of a writing device as a form of character development. But I don't really think it's a question of "Maya's character" vs. "writers' laziness" since I don't believe that the latter (if that was the case) really detracts from the former.

Author:  Cookie~Ace [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Yeah, pretty much what Pineapple said. "Childish" isn't the solid word to describe Maya; rather...a struggling innocent or something along those lines..

Author:  Raelle [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Our wedding is now inevitable, Pineapple Box. It is useless to resist.

Maya is at her strongest when she can be there for people; asides from the general idea of "oh, she's strong", it's also a coping mechanism for her and lets her channel her emotions into a different direction. We can see how quickly and how badly she falls apart when she thinks she isn't able to support the people around her, ala 1-4. It's simply one of her core character traits, and I think the way she was presented at the end of 3-5 was very consistent with that, and very sweet besides.

Author:  Super Muffin [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Dr. E. Coli wrote:
I think I'd like her less if she was more mature, really.

Yeah. I mean, the "kid" thing is what makes some parts genuinely funny. Of course, the kid thing could wear on you at times (as Croik said). I think that sometimes Maya's personality either makes or breaks the moment. Sometimes, it makes a certain moment much more enjoyable when Maya and Nick are interacting (such as when they're in the Ringmaster's Room in 2-2). That was funny. But, some moments (such as various moments scattered in 1-3), she just wears on you. Wear wear wear. So...to me, it's more of a "spur of the moment" thing. Mature at one moment, not so much at the next. It all depends on the situation.

Author:  musouka [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I also have to chime in and say we've gotten plenty of emotional moments from Maya. There's the "spoiler" issue in 3-5 that Pineapple outlined in an earlier part of his post, but that's far from the only one. We have that powerful scene of her crying as she listens to Mia's last message on the cell phone, back in 1-2. We have her crying when she's reunited with Mia in the second game.

There is also a distinct pattern in the entire third game of her
Spoiler: minor 3-5
putting off her training. Mia's discussion with Phoenix doesn't exist in a bubble, it's an explanation for certain behavior that exists over the course the entire narrative.

Author:  grim_tales [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

That's interesting because when we learn about Maya listening to the message, we don't actually see anything - we just have Nick's words. But it is a powerful scene and you can just imagine it. So sad :(

Author:  DefenseNeverRests [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Yes, when I was at the message part in 1-2, I could just picture exactly what was going on in my head. It was so sad and emotional.

Author:  Lyssie [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Is it too late for me to also ask for Pineapple Box's hand in marriage? I'll bake cookies!

Author:  Croik [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Pineapple Box wrote:
Sure, the writers probably wanted a happy ending, and sure, they probably thought they didn't have enough time to flesh out Maya's reaction since lol it's the end of the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if Maya's reaction was just as much of a writing device as a form of character development. But I don't really think it's a question of "Maya's character" vs. "writers' laziness" since I don't believe that the latter (if that was the case) really detracts from the former.


But that's just why I don't like it..

Spoiler:
It wasn't convenient for them to write in and flesh out Maya's reaction to her mother dying, so they didn't. There are so many different reactions she could have have, so much interesting growth that could have happened. I think if they knew they weren't going to be able to really deal with all of that, they shouldn't have gone for the shock of killing Misty in the first place. They did show her being emotional over Mia several times, but all Misty gets is, "No time for that now, happy ending coming up!"

I can't really get myself to believe that it was anything other than the writers plowing through to the ending they wanted, especially when there were so many other things they just kind of overlooked. Like the fact that no one called Godot on why he just didn't destroy the note. Or Elise, for going ahead with such a crazy plan. Godot's "love" for Mia supposedly drove him to do everything, but we don't even get to see the two of them interact once they're reunited. I know people see it differently, but to me it gave off a real vibe of "OK people, let's wrap this show up! Court's over, everyone go home!"

I think they did Maya a disservice. And Mia (come to think of it, we didn't get any insight into her thoughts on her mother being murdered, either, though I can't say I was as interested to know that).

Author:  ClintTheChocolic [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

IMO, Phoenix Wright is written in the most classical detective novel tradition. You have the detective, then you have the quirky stooge assistant ala Watson and Hastings, and of course... the idiot inspector who's quick to jump to conclusions ala Lestrade. You have Gumshoe to fill in Lestrade's role, and for the stooge assistant, you have Maya. Is she childish? I don't think so... I think it's just her exxagerated characterization as the stooge assistant. She's also there to balance out Phoenix's character during investigation mode.

If you notice, Phoenix and Maya somewhat act like an owarai kombi in a manzai performance. Phoenix acts as tsukkomi (the straight man) and Maya as a boke (the funny man--or in this case, the funny woman.) I admittedly haven't seen that much japanese stand up routines (only a few of them are available in subtitles), but from what I've seen... the comedians acting as the bokes always act like a total idiot; exactly like Maya. I personally think she behaves more like an idiot rather than childish.

reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzai

Author:  Pineapple Box [ Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

I think I can learn to practice polygamy if cookies are involved.

H-Have I mentioned that I love this topic yet?
Croik wrote:
But that's just why I don't like it..

And, really, I would have loved it if things were expanded on. I'm just saying that the things the writers did put in there are just as important and deserve just as much weight as what they might have put in there.
Spoiler: 3-5
... Now that I'm starting to think about it, there's also the possibility that Misty's actual death wasn't important. Like I said before, Misty had never been a real force in Maya's life, and the fact that she's gone isn't much different from the way things were before. It could be argued that the element of "she might come back one day" is gone, but we have to remember that by that point in the game, Maya had already accepted the fact that she was headed towards being the Master. The way I read it was that she was very much accepting the possibility that her mother would never come back.

The emphasis, therefore, shifts to the what's left of the family aspect of the Fey clan. It's discussed a lot in 3-5: the issue with fathers leaving, the conflicts between sisters for power, etc. etc., but the game itself ends with Maya following Pearl (the person she'd technically been in conflict with for the position of the Master) like the big sister she'd become. Then we have the photo Misty carried with her as a powerful final image - a mother's love for her daughters. It wasn't so much that Misty was gone for such a long time, or that she was dead, but that, despite everything, she never once stopped thinking about Mia and Maya, and that the element of familial love was something the Fey clan had been missing for such a long time.

Plus I really just can't see Maya getting emotional over Misty, since the only times we've really seen her emotional pertain to Mia. It's never been like Maya to lose control emotionally, and, again, Misty's part in her life wasn't nearly as huge as Mia's, or Phoenix's, or Pearl's, or even Morgan's to some extent.

But, all in all, I see what you're saying. Honestly, I was disappointed we didn't get to see more of Godot and Mia, among other things.

Author:  Raelle [ Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Image

Author:  Cheath [ Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Why is Maya so childish?

Maya's not childish, we're just too mature

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