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And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Okay, I'm just wondering, how come the "name of the killer written in blood" is accepted without question so often? It happened in 1-2, where it was essentially the only piece of evidence that the prosecution had to back up their charges. It happened again in 1-5, despite being very illogical (and forged).
Spoiler: Case 1-5
Think about it: if you had just been accidently impaled by a 14-year-old girl who was only trying to help, I think that the last thing on your mind would be "I am going to incriminate this girl."
and it happened a third time in 2-1, despite
Spoiler: Case 2-1
Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.
I'm not trying to slam PW for being unoriginal or anything, but, why is this always accepted without question as near-conclusive evidence?
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Yeah, the whole "IMA WRITE THEIR NAME NOW" thing is pretty popular in the Phoenix Wright world, and it's always a ploy by the real killer to incriminate someone innocent.
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squints1318 wrote:
Yeah, the whole "IMA WRITE THEIR NAME NOW" thing is pretty popular in the Phoenix Wright world, and it's always a ploy by the real killer to incriminate someone innocent.

...IMA WRITE THEIR NAME NOW?
......You sir, have just made my fucking day! XDD
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

Bah!

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That reminds me (not really, but I needed a segue)...
Spoiler: case 2-1
how come Detective Gumshoe and company took the time to note that Dustin had written in the ground based on the scratches on his fingernail, yet failed to notice Wellington's fingerprints all over him?
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Yeah I know! Happens too often if you ask me. I make fun of it in the Phoenix Wright story I'm writing. Say something like:

"Well, if the victim left behind a bloody message with the accused person's name on it, obviously that person would be innocent! That's never worked. When will these murders learn?"

Lol :phoenix:
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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The sand and dirt wiped away all figerprints, the reason they think victim notes are decisive no matter what is the time limit of 3 days they have, and no time to fully examine those things.
Don't mind me, just passing through.
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Spoiler:
The very first time it happens, in 1-2, Phoenix does the smart thing and presents evidence confirming the victim was already dead, so writing a name is impossible. Good call.

When it happens again in 1-5 Phoenix doesn't bother to question it. Granted, there was no solid evidence of instantaneous death, so maybe not questioning it was fine.

But it happens again in 2-1 and you 'do' have evidence that his death was instantaneous. Broken neck = instant death. The court even acknowledges the victim's instant death. Based on the broken watch they accept that the time of death was the time of impact. Major fail. 2-1 is the worst case in the entire series.
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Quote:
Major fail. 2-1 is the worst case in the entire series.

Blasphamy. It's 2-3.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Myself, I was always baffled at the whole notion that incriminating the named person is the ONLY REASON EVER to write the name.

I mean, 1-2 confused me for a good while because my first reaction to seeing the bloody receipt was "Awww! In her last moments, Mia was thinking of Maya! ;_;" I couldn't understand why nobody suggested that the meaning of the note was "please take care of this person" or something.

Also, I have to side with Godot Fan here. 2-3 is hands down the worst case. At least 2-1 has the advantage of having Maggey, and the hilarity factor of watching an amnesiac Phoenix blunder his way through court proceedings.
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Hmm, is the "dying message" trope that unusual? I guess I've read too many murder mysteries or read too many manga along the lines of Detective Conan, but it's a staple in those sorts of series, but I didn't bat an eye any time it came up, except to laugh when Phoenix asked how often a dying person actually LEFT that sort of message. Of course, straight forward ones like actual names never turn out to be true, but it's not so much GS cannibalizing itself as it is just using one of the cliches of the genre.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Spoiler: 1-5
I did think it was sort of bizzare that Neil Marshall would try to incriminate Ema.
I mean, "Waaah, I'm impaled on a sword, and now I'm going to write down the name of the girl who didn't mean for this to happen so she goes to prison! Bwahahaha!*dead*"


Last edited by Franziska von Karma on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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I like a man with a big ... vocabulary.

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You should probably stick that in a spoiler tag, just in case :)
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Lyssie wrote:
Also, I have to side with Godot Fan here. 2-3 is hands down the worst case. At least 2-1 has the advantage of having Maggey, and the hilarity factor of watching an amnesiac Phoenix blunder his way through court proceedings.


But... 2-3 has Max in it... :sadshoe:
You have to ask...? Really? Well... It's because I am your friend.
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Quote:
But... 2-3 has Max in it...

But it had Moe in it, and you know what they say:
Moe sucks.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Do your best, Nick. Hee... hee... hee...

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I agree, it's a pretty silly gimmick, but the reason it keeps showing up is because it's the easiest way to frame a specific person, I suppose.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Quote:
Major fail. 2-1 is the worst case in the entire series.

Spoiler:
I agree. The plot doesn't make any sense and contradicts itself, the whole idea of losing memory is plain sh*t and "left-handed-baseball-glove" how should a non-baseball player know what it's all about?
I think JFA would be better if 2-1 wasn't included. Seriously. Okay, Wellington is a great character, but he could have been included somewhere else.

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Godot Fan wrote:
Quote:
But... 2-3 has Max in it...

But it had Moe in it, and you know what they say:
Moe sucks.


No. Now, you suck.

Moe is in my top three favourite characters.
fuck
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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DarzieP wrote:
Godot Fan wrote:
Quote:
But... 2-3 has Max in it...

But it had Moe in it, and you know what they say:
Moe sucks.


No. Now, you suck.


QFT.
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Screw this, I'm making a Moe <3 topic. I'll see you there Happi.
fuck
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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I just thought about making one! But I'll let you do it~
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Done~
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Hi

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The fact is that PW works on a premise of "Guilty until proven innocent." Until there's evidence to prove that the victim DIDN'T incriminate the killer, it counts as evidence, no matter how unlikely it may seem (e.g. like you said, "Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.")
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Do your best, Nick. Hee... hee... hee...

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rtsmarty wrote:
The fact is that PW works on a premise of "Guilty until proven innocent." Until there's evidence to prove that the victim DIDN'T incriminate the killer, it counts as evidence, no matter how unlikely it may seem (e.g. like you said, "Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.")

:objection:

Dustin's head was only pointed that way because his neck was broken! So it's perfectly reasonable that he could have written that name!
Wait...
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Lyssie wrote:
I mean, 1-2 confused me for a good while because my first reaction to seeing the bloody receipt was "Awww! In her last moments, Mia was thinking of Maya! ;_;" I couldn't understand why nobody suggested that the meaning of the note was "please take care of this person" or something.


That's exactly what I thought! D: If someone were to accuse my brother of murder because I left a message to him before I died, I'd come back from the dead and smack them D<

(And to those saying 2-1 and 2-3 were fail, IMO it was 1-5 and 3-4, but whatever.)
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Quandtuniverse wrote:
(And to those saying 2-1 and 2-3 were fail, IMO it was 1-5 and 3-4, but whatever.)


...what?

1-5 is the 2nd best case ever, and 3-4 is... let me calculate.... the 6th..? 1-5 was epicness and awestriking, and 3-4 was just plain fantastic storytelling. 2-1 and 2-3 are, indeed, the worst cases in the entire PW trilogy. There just isn't much room for discussion :payne:
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Mikker wrote:
Quandtuniverse wrote:
(And to those saying 2-1 and 2-3 were fail, IMO it was 1-5 and 3-4, but whatever.)


...what?

1-5 is the 2nd best case ever, and 3-4 is... let me calculate.... the 6th..? 1-5 was epicness and awestriking, and 3-4 was just plain fantastic storytelling. 2-1 and 2-3 are, indeed, the worst cases in the entire PW trilogy. There just isn't much room for discussion :payne:


That's why I said "IMO". What I like and what you like are completely different.

(We really shouldn't be discussing this here anyway...)
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In 1-2, Gumshoe thinks that Mia wrote Maya's name on the back of the receipt. Do you really think after being hit that hard, Mia would reach for a receipt, touch her head to get blood, and write her sister's name?
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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DefenseNeverRests wrote:
In 1-2, Gumshoe thinks that Mia wrote Maya's name on the back of the receipt. Do you really think after being hit that hard, Mia would reach for a receipt, touch her head to get blood, and write her sister's name?


Without Maya stomping on her hand since she was supposed to be in that room alone?
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Quandtuniverse wrote:
(And to those saying 2-1 and 2-3 were fail, IMO it was 1-5 and 3-4, but whatever.)


I agree completely. :redd:

Now that I think of it, if Mia HAD written the note, you could argue she was trying to draw Maya's attention to the receipt, which turned out to be a vital piece of evidence! Except of course that she didn't write it... Oh well.

I think Dustin writing out Maggey's name in the dirt is even less believable in the Japanese version, since he was writing kanji. If I was dying in Japan and wanted to incriminate my killer, I'd go straight for the kana, let me tell you! :wellington:
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Croik wrote:
Quandtuniverse wrote:
(And to those saying 2-1 and 2-3 were fail, IMO it was 1-5 and 3-4, but whatever.)


I agree completely. :redd:

Now that I think of it, if Mia HAD written the note, you could argue she was trying to draw Maya's attention to the receipt, which turned out to be a vital piece of evidence! Except of course that she didn't write it... Oh well.

I think Dustin writing out Maggey's name in the dirt is even less believable in the Japanese version, since he was writing kanji. If I was dying in Japan and wanted to incriminate my killer, I'd go straight for the kana, let me tell you! :wellington:


Kanji? O___O Now that thought is scaring me...

Oh yeah, I had always wondered about how the whole misspelling thing played out in the Japanese version...
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

OBJECTION!

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Szabu wrote:
Quote:
Major fail. 2-1 is the worst case in the entire series.

Spoiler:
I agree. The plot doesn't make any sense and contradicts itself, the whole idea of losing memory is plain sh*t and "left-handed-baseball-glove" how should a non-baseball player know what it's all about?
I think JFA would be better if 2-1 wasn't included. Seriously. Okay, Wellington is a great character, but he could have been included somewhere else.


No, no! In comparison, 2-3 sucks. 2-1 was at least funny, making Nick have amnesia was a good twist.
Also, I agree its funny they dont think the "name written in blood" idea could mean something else - I mean:
Spoiler:
In 1-2, Mia writing Maya's name could mean "Please take care of Maya" or something.


Also in 2-1
Spoiler:
Wouldn't Wellington's fingerprints be on Dustin? And there's no motive established for Maggey to be the actual killer (is there?) Dustin might have meant "Maggey I love you" (?) or something?!

Nick and Maya - Friends and Lovers....


Last edited by grim_tales on Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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1) Mia never wrote Maya, 2) The receipt would be too small to write it, especially Maya's name was written so big.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Potato-Wave wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2-1
Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.


:objection:

There are no t's in Maggie, you silly goose!
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

Bah!

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RazeTora wrote:
Potato-Wave wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2-1
Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.


:objection:

There are no t's in Maggie, you silly goose!

:objection:

That's why he spelled it wrong, of course!
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

no way jose

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Quote:
I think Dustin writing out Maggey's name in the dirt is even less believable in the Japanese version, since he was writing kanji. If I was dying in Japan and wanted to incriminate my killer, I'd go straight for the kana, let me tell you! :wellington:


With kana, there wouldn't be an issue with Maggey's name, since it'd be phonetically spelled out. With kanji, it leaves room for error, using the wrong kanji to spell her name. :scientific:
(But I'm sure you already knew that.)

I personally don't have a problem with it. Without them, there wouldn't be much of a case... Besides, 1-2 (kinda sorta) & 2-1 were tutorial/introduction cases. :wendy:
LOL.
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Tenna wrote:
Quote:
I think Dustin writing out Maggey's name in the dirt is even less believable in the Japanese version, since he was writing kanji. If I was dying in Japan and wanted to incriminate my killer, I'd go straight for the kana, let me tell you! :wellington:


With kana, there wouldn't be an issue with Maggey's name, since it'd be phonetically spelled out. With kanji, it leaves room for error, using the wrong kanji to spell her name. :scientific:
(But I'm sure you already knew that.)


Yeah...that was my point. :gregory: It doesn't make much sense that anyone with a broken neck would take the time to write out a killer's name, let alone in kanji, let alone that neatly.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title

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Obviously, the only correct answer is that Richard Wellington is a complete retard.
If you come across an older post of mine, sowwy
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Lol. Looks like there's no way he would've gotten into any "first rate universities" then.
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Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Potato-Wave wrote:
RazeTora wrote:
Potato-Wave wrote:
Spoiler: Case 2-1
Dustin's head was tilted away from the writing spot, making it near impossible for him to dot the i's and cross the t's as nicely as he did.


:objection:

There are no t's in Maggie, you silly goose!

:objection:

That's why he spelled it wrong, of course!


:igiari: (o no, I can see where this is going)

SO ARE YOU PROPOSING HE WROTE "MAGGTE"? HMMMM?
Re: And then the victim wrote the killer's name!Topic%20Title
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Aw the Beatles were so innocent!

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That is very silly.
Spoiler: 1-2
First, why would Maya kill Mia? Also, why did they assume that she didn't mean "take care of Maya" or "have Maya channel me" or something.

And as for 2-1, it was just so fucking laughable that it is ridiculous!
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