I'm having a hard time downloading Phoenix Wright songs from the English musical. I specifically want -no, need- the I'll Be There song. It's so sweet and funny!!!
Just sharing
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| Phoenix and Maya Fan Club https://forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7058 |
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| Author: | rebelpanda [ Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
I'm having a hard time downloading Phoenix Wright songs from the English musical. I specifically want -no, need- the I'll Be There song. It's so sweet and funny!!! Just sharing
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| Author: | icer [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
liu bei wrote: You think so? What would be if her family threaten her? Telling her she has to decide between her family and Phoenix. Depends if people can really vote a Master out. But put it this way, Misty was still 'Master' even after she disappeared. But Morgan had no powers, so she couldn't pit herself as a viable replacement, and Pearl was still too young. It seems more likely people just have the capacity to make life unpleasant to the point of the Master psychologically imploding and 'disappearing', not actually removing their title as Master. But this unfortunate precedent is of course canon also... Quote: Could she really just choose Phoenix over her own family? It's very likely that they were the one who took care of her after her mother's dissappearance. Or what if they were to threaten her to take Pearl away from her? In my point of view all those "elders" would be the one who have much more authority and power (if we were too assume that the Fey family are somehow "political") than Maya, who is just you know  .Well, the canon is Morgan looked after her and raised her. 0_0 Poor Maya. Morgan seemed to have some level of domestic control, but not 'enough'. but then again, spirit powers would have given her more weight... The other people at Kurain are likely only distantly related to her, that's the impression the game seems to give, Pearl being her only/close family [except for Iris and Dahlia LOL] Quote: And since the case 3-5 we know that the Fey family has some ties with politicians. Why then not also some ties with some shady organisation to threaten her even more? True. Imagine the problems with ties with politicians and channelling their secrets. Think of some unstable nation and you get the picture. Everybody can take a loveeeeely trip to Zheng Fa! I don't think Maya would be very good at Master powerplays, which is a pity since now she doesn't have Phoenix to help her out. The 3-5 end worked very nicely because she'd have a useful lawyer who could actually help her out, in a practical legal capacity.... In the end, you can strongly support people in Kurain making life difficult for Maya from what's in the games, but there's no concrete evidence to support that things have to be to the extreme she doesn't visit Phoenix whenever she likes etc.Probably the people at Kurain didn't think it was good living in the city w/Phoenix in game 2 and 3 but nobody stopped her, though if they disliked her they were probably 'hoping' Pearl would be Master so good riddance. In the end all this stuff about actual 'elders' is fanon, so you can take a more or less extreme view in fanfic. You can easily think of explanations to explain them though. rebelpanda wrote: I'm having a hard time downloading Phoenix Wright songs from the English musical. I specifically want -no, need- the I'll Be There song. It's so sweet and funny!!! Just sharing Maybe I'll upload it later. |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Were the elders ever mentioned in the GAME? Maybe, there are no elders. There's the master, and when she's not in charge, there is someone instead of her, a relative of hers. Or something. Cus I don't remember any elders O: Maybe it's just me and they were mentioned. Umm... |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
BlackWiddow wrote: Were the elders ever mentioned in the GAME? Maybe, there are no elders. There's the master, and when she's not in charge, there is someone instead of her, a relative of hers. Or something. Cus I don't remember any elders O: Maybe it's just me and they were mentioned. Umm... From a quick ctrl+f of the gamefaqs scripts, the elders were not mentioned unless in 3-2 or 3-3 (doubtful). So the whole concept of elders is fanon. However, the concept seems logical to me, since Kurain is obviously home to more than a few people (people have to have a reason to call it "medium valley" after all). Note: I haven't double-checked this post for contradictions. Spoiler: "Exhibit A" Spoiler: "Exhibit B" Spoiler: "Exhibit C" From the above quotes we know that: 1. The branch family (rather, families) consist of anyone that is not "main family". (B) 2. Bikini herself is part of a branch family, and thus a Fey. She does state that "Bikini" isn't her real name when Nick and Maya first meet her. (B) 3. Not all Branch family members want the main family line to end. (B, also Iris) (Pearl and Mia aren't evidence of this since they're too connected to Maya) 4. Either that most of the mediums in Kurain are not Feys, or the Fey family has expanded immensely since Mystic Ami. Otherwise, there would be no one to "look down" on Morgan for either "not living up to the Fey name" or "not being like the rest of us Feys". I suspect both possibilities are true at least to some extent. (C) Because of point (4) and (3)and the continual family conflict that the Fey line goes through as stated in (A), there's going to be Branch-Fey supporters/opponents of the Main family and Non-Fey allies of each side through ties that probably extend outside the confines of the village. To prevent a village riot (like a less one-sided version of what happened with Misty, where the only thing keeping a complete collapse of the Master's position itself was tradition), there pretty much has to be some balance of power. Both internally and externally. Regarding external power, according to Bikini: Spoiler: "Exhibit D" Bikini says "Members of the Tradition" rather than "The Master of Kurain", which implies that it's not just the Master who holds external power. More debatable is that she doesn't even say "Members of the Fey Clan". It's logical that the Master is the one who delegates who goes where, and I'm sure that she wouldn't assign people she didn't trust. And even then, what about those outside of Kurain? The Master obviously keep track of everything by herself. So the Branch-Fey, and even the Non-Fey, can't be completely powerless. A member of the branch family is able to found a "Master-certified" temple of channeling (though potentially on the current Master's orders). Also Bikini has management duties despite not being in the Main family: Spoiler: "Exhibit E" So the existence of external power distribution is clear, and given the existence  of this distrubition, there is most likely an internal distribution of power as well: the easiest way to get external power would be to earn it through internal trust and proven capability, which would come from having at least some say in Kurain affairs. The extent of this power is contestable however:Spoiler: "Exhibit F" Morgan's management duties are due only to the master not being present. On the other hand, perhaps branch family members are only able to get power in areas outside of Kurain. And maybe Morgan's just milking the situation. She no doubt likes the fact that the Master isn't there. Going back to the idea of elders, what probably happened was, with the disappearance of Misty, whomever it was who held subordinate positions at the time took provisional control of the Master position. The "controlling elders" concept goes by the notion that, after 17 years, the current power-holders had a say in the transfer of power to the new Master. This in itself is likely. Remember that the DL-6 incident tarnished the kurain technique and thus the synonymous main family's reputation. The provisional "masters" wouldn't just unconditionally hand over the reigns to the main family. This is where the confusion is created. The normal view is that the elder's control includes keeping Maya "locked up" in Kurain village with no contact with the outside world. However, the Master's duties clearly are supposed to extend beyond Kurain. A Personified cause for this assumption is Pearl, who was completely isolated from the outside world prior to 2-2. Her isolation however, is simply because Morgan wanted to protect her (and advance her training), not due to the same "elder's rule" that is assumed to apply to Master Maya. The ideological cause is in the backlash from the DL-6 incident. This is shown through Morgan: Spoiler: "Exhibit G" Since Morgan is one of 2 older Feys (Misty doesn't count) seen in the games, and her role in the events of 2-2 and 3-5 being what it was, her hatred of outsiders is naturally applied to all of the elders as well. It isn't stated whether outsiders were always prohibited from entering the village, or if this began after the DL-6 incident, but either way the stated "feelings against outsiders entering Kurain" seem to be reversed in fanon to be "feelings against the Master leaving Kurain" when, in actuality, leaving Kurain is part of the Master's job. Ironically, it seems more common in fanfiction for Nick to visit Maya than vice versa (but that may just be what I'm reading). On the other hand, to relate all of this to our pairing, while leaving Kurain is one thing, leaving Kurain to associate with a "fraudulent lawyer" like Nick is another altogether. The idea of the elders disapproving of Maya visiting Nick, also stems from the logical, if not canonical, reaction to the backlash from the DL-6 incident. Even if we were to assume that there are no "elders", that disapproval would come from the other villagers, who had seen what had happened with Misty. If they can force a master out once, they can do it again. (Of course, there isn't anything stopping Maya from visiting Nick in secret) To conclude, I love Phoenix/Maya because it seems that any attempt to break it only makes it stronger. |
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| Author: | Hikari [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Yeah, the elders are complete and utter fanon as Icer said earlier. It's not hard to visualise a council of elders in charge of Kurain just below the Master, like the Sitters and the Amyrlin in Wheel of Time. (I've been reading too much of that series...but come to think of it, the Aes Sedai and the Feys have a lot in common..) There haven't been any explicit hints but there is definitely room for them to be there. Edit: Oops, I posted this while reading page 123 *headdesk* This post is completely useless..don't mind me... |
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| Author: | icer [ Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Great observations, Equilibrate Concerto. I actually did do a little research for one of my fanfics (just to check this fanon was, well, *reasonable*,) and whetever site/s I found did suggest that traditional village and matriarchal societies have powerful 'elders'. Also traditional Japanese societies respect old people, right, assuming 'elders' are 'old', though the mystique of old people probably breaks down in a ghost-ridden society like Kurain. But as for hostile 'elders', well, I think it would take more than just Morgan's hostility for Misty to go that crazy and 'disappear'. It wasn't just the outside world, obviously Kurain itself was made intolerable for her. And all those murder trials weren't exactly good PR for Kurain's supposed poster child, nor was Maya's lengthy absences from Kurain... and remember, Maya was left with NOBODY when she was on trial in 1-2, no nice 'elders' or other distant family/friends from Kurain coming to support or maybe at least help with a lawyer. And she was underage at the time. It's noted that Fey Manor is a lot bigger and nicer than all the other houses too, so the branch branch branch families might be resentful of the Master and their family in general? Ironically, of course, Mia probably would have been a far better Master than Maya with all of the politics/legal meddling the games do imply it involves. People claim Maya's somehow irresponsible for living in the city during the games and not doing more to help the village and whatever, but nobody judges Mia for this, and she just left. In 3-5, Phoenix calls the mantle of Master for Maya a 'curse' or something... aww It doesn't take much thought to see Kurain is a traditional society, and there are few modern innovations or anything in Kurain. So the people and whoever is in control would be big on tradition and traditional law. Which is in many ways diametrically opposed to state law and modern influences from city practices and their inhabitants. As for who termed these evil 'elders', I have no idea. When I started to like this pairing, I read all the fanfics I could find , and they were already all near-unanimously infested with them. And I'm sorry, the whole hobo story for Phoenix is a clear and blatant repeat of Misty and the people in Kurain ['elders' or not] would not be blind enough to miss it. Misty disgraced them all by her 'mistake' in court casting the whole Kurain thing into disrepute and financial ruin [they'd already be wary of lawyers. In 2-2 Phoenix observes the other residents AREN'T AROUND so maybe they don't want to see him?] The people of Kurain probably didn't think Misty was faking, they think she just made a mistake and a misjudgment getting involved with the legal stuff in the first place. With Phoenix, they WOULD think he forged the evidence. And they don't want that mud sticking EVEN MORE to the Master when it's so recent channelling began to be re-accepted. People probably start talking that he cheated in Maya's murder trials, too... rebelpanda wrote: I'm having a hard time downloading Phoenix Wright songs from the English musical. I specifically want -no, need- the I'll Be There song. It's so sweet and funny!!! TriforceBun - I'll Be There (Vocals-Acc).mp3 I'll Be There Note this is the file I DL'd years ago, they probably updated since then. I think this is the winning audition entry or something. The other good song is 'It's Gotta Be The Butz'. |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
I feel a little off topic, but whatever! I can't miss that! Finally, after a lot of searching, I found this: http://narumayo.thrilling-heroics.com/index.php It's the fanlisting of NickXMaya! (Fanlisting= websites of things you love, basically. You join as a member to show you love the thing that the web is about. Or something like that.) I was like WTF when I found this. My friend and I search for months,Since she showed me some websites, and I asked her "Is there a MayaXNick web?" and she's like "I don't think so..." I was kinda depressed when we kinda gave up. I KNEW IT! YAY!!*Fangirl scream* |
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| Author: | Toby Danger [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
By coincidence, just after we discuss the Elders, the latest chapter of Our Secret Mission sees Phoenix finally give those Elders what for with his mad Magatama skills, and they finally accept him and Maya's relationship. Awesome chapter. |
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| Author: | icer [ Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Toby Danger wrote: By coincidence, just after we discuss the Elders, the latest chapter of Our Secret Mission sees Phoenix finally give those Elders what for with his mad Magatama skills, and they finally accept him and Maya's relationship. Awesome chapter. Spoiler: BlackWiddow wrote: Oh yeah, also there's the Facebook group 'Phoenix and Maya Belong Together' And read my fanfic, Chapter 4 is where Phoenix and Maya meet again for their infinitely touching reunion. |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Chapter 4 was great, but damn, the chapters are too short. Update faster TT About the Facebook group- Joined it a long time ago, when I started like PxM. Anyways, I found a guy who writes PxM fics, and well, the fics are really good. Haven't seen some good fics in a while, so when I found this I was kinda happy. http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2181242/Blue_Deity He's the one that writes "Precious Maya" too. Chapter 7 is up! About my fics, I started to write chapter 2 of my AJ fic, and I got an idea for my 2-4 fic(Not the bad ending one.) Wish me luck~ |
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| Author: | Toby Danger [ Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
The awesome Shiki recently uploaded an awesome story on his site and on the Kink Meme. And it is marvelous. It's great to see his work again. |
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| Author: | MapleRose [ Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Hi, I recently got into Ace Attorney, and I'm kinda obsessed with it atm (thanks to  XD)I'm kinda sitting on the fence atm regarding Nick x Maya actually. I love canon pairings, and a lot of evidence points to Nick x Maya as canon (and yay I read the evidence list XD). It's certain that they're close, and are important to each other. But the reason I'm still sitting on the fence about it instead of being totally convinced about it is 'cause I haven't decided if they're more like brother-sister close or romantic-love close... I can't decide whether Nick thinks of Maya the same way he thinks of Mia, as a close friend forever, or even family. No it's not the age difference, I still don't understand why people can support Maggey x Gumshoe even though they're 9 years apart, but look down on Maya x Nick because of their 7 year age gap.... Anyway, the picture Maya drew in 2-4 proves that she thought only about him, but Maya has no other male (or adult) figures in her life to depend on, and Nick is the only one she could think about to help her out. Nick is worried about her, but Nick is the kind of person who wouldn't give up on friends anyway, much less someone who he might view as family. In AA, one of the large reasons Nick defends Maya is 'cause Maya has nobody left, and he can't abandon her (being Nick and all), and he wasn't about to abandon her then. However, Nick does mention Maya as the person closest to him, so maybe there was something romantic there. Not to mention him getting boiled like a lobster when he first met Pearl and heard about her fantasies XD And Maya must've talked about him a lot to Pearl to give her that impression. My impression by the end of JFA is that Maya has a crush on Nick, and Nick thinks of her as an important person, but not necessarily as a potential life partner, more like close family. Then by T&T, I think there are things both for and against whether their relationship is a romantic one. For example, Maya getting jealous of Dessie (again, I think she might have a crush on him), Nick thinking she's cute with the waitress outfit on, Dahlia saying "she's your girlfriend, isn't she?" and Nick not denying. But then you have Maya calmly telling Nick about Pearl's misunderstanding, Nick asking Pearl and explaining "it's not like that" (in 2-4). In AJ, when Apollo asks about the DVDs, Nick says Quote: Phoenix: This "kid" I know keeps sending them to me. Apollo: Huh. Like a niece or nephew? Phoenix: ...Something like that. Now why did Nick call Maya "kid"? Term of endearment? perhaps, but kind of an odd one. But I suppose this can be explained away by Nick simply being cryptic to Apollo and doesn't want him to poke around after knowing there's a woman in his life, seeing as how he just laughs when Trucy asks about Nick getting her a new Mommy. But the biggest contradiction I can't overlook is this line from the epilogue of T&T: Quote: Maya: And I have to be a good big sister to Pearly and Nick, too! Does that mean she thinks of him as a brother, and that they thought of each other as family love all along? I know canon never stopped shippers, but it's important to me XD I doubt Word of God would ever give us an definitive answer, but I just want to know what you guys think of what Maya's last line is supposed to mean.... |
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| Author: | icer [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: In AJ, when Apollo asks about the DVDs, Nick says Quote: Phoenix: This "kid" I know keeps sending them to me. Apollo: Huh. Like a niece or nephew? Phoenix: ...Something like that. Now why did Nick call Maya "kid"? Term of endearment? perhaps, but kind of an odd one. But I suppose this can be explained away by Nick simply being cryptic to Apollo and doesn't want him to poke around after knowing there's a woman in his life, seeing as how he just laughs when Trucy asks about Nick getting her a new Mommy. But the biggest contradiction I can't overlook is this line from the epilogue of T&T: Quote: Maya: And I have to be a good big sister to Pearly and Nick, too! Does that mean she thinks of him as a brother, and that they thought of each other as family love all along? I know canon never stopped shippers, but it's important to me XD I doubt Word of God would ever give us an definitive answer, but I just want to know what you guys think of what Maya's last line is supposed to mean.... Oh, welcome to the topic! What a nice, detailed post.. zzzzzz...I'm in fanfic mode... not in P/M debate mode... right Matsukawa 2008: Gravy On Toast: Will we ever see Phoenix & Maya again?! chyiochan: I want phoenix and Maya to be seen again so badly. You built up their friendship, and I think they deserve something more. Matsukawa-San: Capcom is a company that is influenced by the voices of fans, almost too much so. So, if the fans out there make enough hype and noise about it...you know the drill! [AKA it won't happen, but she's not denying it, so we can imagine what we like] Takumi, this year: What happened to Maya Fey at the end of Phoenix Wright 3? And are there any plans to bring these old characters back in an Apollo Justice 2 game? - darKnight Takumi: Personally, I would like to leave the conclusion to you. By me telling you what may happen limits the infinite possibility to one and I don't want that. I do think it is a difficult issue of how much to tell you. In terms of a sequel I'm afraid I can't comment on that at the moment. AKA Word of God is we can basically imagine whatever we like, and P/M fans feel they HAVE to be together. The DVD scene is considered irrelevant in terms of exact content, Takumi himself basically said that. What we're supposed to read into it is that Phoenix and Maya are still evidently close friends, close enough that some evidence slipped by Phoenix's magic cryptic mentor act. All the refs to past chars connecting to Phoenix [none are ever mentioned by name to point of ridiculousity] are just cruel 'jokes' to make Phoenix look stupid to Apollo. For example, he thinks Phoenix is weird to give Charley a name, he thinks that Ema's fingerprint powder is a drug or something... If Phoenix has got sprung watching the low kiddie end of the Samurai franchise [wasn't it the Booger Samurai?] and he obscures most information from Apollo, including cases he is taking THAT DAY, when Apollo asks if some 'kid' sent him the Booger Samurai, Phoenix is hardly going to explain about Maya, particularly when it's clear he barely trusts Apollo at this point in time. Cause nobody, even Phoenix, is going to think of Maya as a 'kid' at 26 even if he sees her as a 'younger sister', but knowing she's a 'kid at heart' isn't going to preclude any romance - I mean, Phoenix is watching the kiddie show, in public, FOR HER. That's... significant. 3-5 Credits? Basically means she's going to look after him and Pearl. 'Big Sister' even though she's younger. She considers him family, but what is your romantic partner but family? People tend to be attracted to romantic partners which fulfill their needs, and with Maya and Phoenix largely lacking in the family department (if Phoenix's parents exist, they certainly don't seem too close) this certainly fits criteria. If Phoenix had not made any romantic advances on her yet, she's not about to say 'my romantic interest' or whatever. We know it's not an admitted 'romantic relationship' by end 3-5. It just has a heap of potential which never goes away. 'Canon P/M' is just the writers torturing us with this irony.... Their bond is obviously far more to each other than just a shallow romantic attraction and probably didn't start that way, but that's part of what makes the pairing so interesting. Okay, fine. They are ADULTS. How many adults suddenly form a SIBLING bond in the space of about 6 months? (By 2-2, Phoenix is the 'only' thing Maya wants to see, and Phoenix literally sits around and MOPES for months after Maya leaves.) People grow up and move away from their siblings, not choose to be with them, and surrogate sibling bonds tend to form in childhood only. Edgeworth-Franziska and Dahlia-Iris are the 'sibling' relationships. If there's no romantic P/M, they're asexual life partners or soul mates or something. Terms like 'big sister' don't have to be interpreted literally, Lang called Franziska 'Sis', but you can hardly argue he sees her as a sibling. I admit it would have questionable repercussions for the ship if it came from Phoenix's end, but it doesn't. There's a lot more evidence Maya has a thing for Phoenix, which she believes is unrequited (and also that she's too immature to know/how to pursue it at the present time.) It also means she can fit 'Pearly and Nick' into the same sentence, only so much credits space... It's pretty clear the writers were going for a 'happy end' in 3-5 which would please everybody. Fact is, romantic P/M as a concept was invented by the writers themselves in GS2 and its potential continually tauntingly waved at us, and it just gets further embellished in game 3 as well. Fact is, the canon 'happy end' is that Phoenix and Maya will be together as 'partners'. If you want to imagine romantic P/M, the canon itself only ever builds up the potential, nothing in the games actually negates it, [and Maya's rival for 'partner' to Phoenix gets booted to hell in the climax of the series, LOL]. (Of course they hit us with continual cruel irony that Phoenix and Maya don't get to see/know about each others' greatest acts of love, but it's fairly easy to imagine a scenario where one or both of them wakes up eventually...) They're not going to have an explicit P/M end because a) these aren't romance games, how would it fit with the plot? b) they like to let fans use their imagination everyone knows there are other popular pairings and not everyone likes Maya and some fans self insert. c) it's stereotypical d) P/M wasn't really invented in game 1, they took their 'partnership' in a significant upgrade direction for 2-2. It can be compared to Diego-Mia in a way. It's considered near-canon, but the reality is that GS3 itself has little concrete evidence that Mia has mutual feeling for Diego. If there were significant fandoms of other Mia pairings, it would be hotly contested/debated/denied. They don't DO canon pairings. They're ALL ambiguous at BEST, and so they've left enough ambiguity in P-M that people can still imagine it only ever being platonic IF they want to, or not. Let's have some P/M Fanart Spoiler: pics! |
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| Author: | P!ATD [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: In AJ, when Apollo asks about the DVDs, Nick says Quote: Phoenix: This "kid" I know keeps sending them to me. Apollo: Huh. Like a niece or nephew? Phoenix: ...Something like that. Now why did Nick call Maya "kid"? He was talking about Maya? Since he said 'kid', I thought he was talking about Pearl.  icer wrote: Spoiler: pics! This is now one of my favourite PxM pictures ever. <3 |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Welcome to the club, MapleRose! Like yourself, I first became interested in this pairing because it just made so much sense. Just so you know, we support all levels of Phoenix/Maya, romantic or not. Some of us are more radical than others, but as long as you support their relationship to some degree, you're always welcome here. Of course, many of us do enjoy discussing canon issues! =) I'll give you my views as well... Canon has given us evidence, but no conclusion. The evidence gets us arbitrarily close to being "absolutely valid" AKA "Canon", and we can go into deep plot/dialogue analysis and symbolics to get even closer. But right, without Word of God, which is deliberately not/won't be given, the idea of official P/M romance acts as an asymptote for us. Not counting pairings that are over chronologically (eg. Feenie/Dahlia), there are very few pairings in the GS series that are not on such an asymptote...the Kitaki parents are one, but is anyone seriously gonna ship that -_- ? However, and I don't mean to offend other shippers, in my opinion the material we can extract from the script puts P/M closer to this asymptote than nearly any other comparable ship. I'd argue that we're closer to it than any of the other Phoenix/someone or Maya/someone pairings. Now, regarding the DVDs, I see Phoenix's "kid" comment as a sarcastic retort at Apollo's comments (and probably his voice inflections that we can't hear for obvious reasons). Also he comments on the DVDs in the examination of the TV. Spoiler: "examine TV" Spoiler: "examine DVDs" From the two quotes we can notice that Phoenix is really vague about his private life in general with quotes like "it's a long story, like a lot of things actually". This is probably pulling hairs but Apollo's silent comment about "not buying them" in the TV examination implies that the TV is chronologically examined before the DVD stack (since if he had heard about the "kid", he would not assume that Phoenix was buying the DVDs himself)! So Apollo is actually poking around a lot and Phoenix is getting annoyed. So when Apollo says "They're all children's action hero shows", Phoenix's "kid" serves the triple purpose of 1) Conveying his annoyance to Apollo (note that polly responds "Huh.", which could be interpreted different ways), 2) Let us know Phoenix and Maya are still friends (which allows us to make our own interpretations), and at the same time 3) Preventing unnecessary questions about Maya that may get her involved in the cases. This is where fanon takes the wheel as we don't know what Maya's role in all of this is, but here's my view: Phoenix, after all, has entrusted his fate in a rookie attorney to somehow make the jury system work in his favor. But what if he were to fail? Of course Phoenix wouldn't want to imply any connection between his "mission" and Maya, or any of his old friends for that matter. So that was a roundabout way of saying that I do not believe that the DVD seen does anything to refute, or really confirm for that matter, the pairing. As for the credits quote...it's an excellent observation. Here are my thoughts: The underarching story of GS3 vis a vis our pairing was to test its strength, romantic or not. I'm not going to jump through the hoops of symbolism right now, so to make it short, by running across the burning bridge, Phoenix choses his bond with Maya over any other bond, namely with Iris. The thing that supports romance is that the bond that he doesn't choose, Feenie/Iris, had once been a romantic relationship, so a future potential P/M romance is implied in a "if not A, then B" sort of way (This is where everyone assumes that Phoenix has to be paired with someone in the end, but the developers leave all sorts of hints, so why not?). Fanon again has to step in to answer for the precise implications of the credits quote, and it, like the entire ending credits, allows an avenue for people to support whatever they want to support. My personal view is that the "sibling" statement is relatively negligible compared to the aforementioned "strength test". Perhaps Maya doesn't know any differently? And who's to say that a "sibling" relationship can't evolve? And the sentence is grammatically ambiguous anyway... insubstantial reasons, I know, but if I were to assume that Phoenix has to be with someone in the end, it would have to be Maya. |
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| Author: | Greener223 [ Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
who cares what they're talking about, all i know is that i love mayick as if it was canon |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Greener223 wrote: who cares what they're talking about, all i know is that i love mayick as if it was canon Yes!  And for me, what started as a logical support has turned into an obsession to the extent that I would support  /  (pardon the cliche) canon or not.Oh, and P!ATD? That pic you posted is pretty much the cutest thing ever. |
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| Author: | MapleRose [ Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Long post is long! >__< icer wrote: Their bond is obviously far more to each other than just a shallow romantic attraction and probably didn't start that way, but that's part of what makes the pairing so interesting. Okay, fine. They are ADULTS. How many adults suddenly form a SIBLING bond in the space of about 6 months? (By 2-2, Phoenix is the 'only' thing Maya wants to see, and Phoenix literally sits around and MOPES for months after Maya leaves.) People grow up and move away from their siblings, not choose to be with them, and surrogate sibling bonds tend to form in childhood only. Edgeworth-Franziska and Dahlia-Iris are the 'sibling' relationships. If there's no romantic P/M, they're asexual life partners or soul mates or something. Yeah, there's no doubt that they're close, but I guess I can't decide if I see them in a romantic relationship or the asexual platonic soul mates bff much like Nick and Mia XD (and tbh, sometimes Nick feels like Maya's babysitter) icer wrote: It's pretty clear the writers were going for a 'happy end' in 3-5 which would please everybody. Fact is, romantic P/M as a concept was invented by the writers themselves in GS2 and its potential continually tauntingly waved at us, and it just gets further embellished in game 3 as well. Fact is, the canon 'happy end' is that Phoenix and Maya will be together as 'partners'. If you want to imagine romantic P/M, the canon itself only ever builds up the potential, nothing in the games actually negates it, [and Maya's rival for 'partner' to Phoenix gets booted to hell in the climax of the series, LOL]. (Of course they hit us with continual cruel irony that Phoenix and Maya don't get to see/know about each others' greatest acts of love, but it's fairly easy to imagine a scenario where one or both of them wakes up eventually...) You're right, I think the writers purposely left it ambiguous so fans can use their imaginations (they say this a lot it seems XD I think it's just that they don't want to shoot down one pairing for another and cause major shipping wars XD). Equilibrate Concerto wrote: Welcome to the club, MapleRose! Like yourself, I first became interested in this pairing because it just made so much sense. Just so you know, we support all levels of Phoenix/Maya, romantic or not. Some of us are more radical than others, but as long as you support their relationship to some degree, you're always welcome here. Of course, many of us do enjoy discussing canon issues! =) I'll give you my views as well... Canon has given us evidence, but no conclusion. The evidence gets us arbitrarily close to being "absolutely valid" AKA "Canon", and we can go into deep plot/dialogue analysis and symbolics to get even closer. But right, without Word of God, which is deliberately not/won't be given, the idea of official P/M romance acts as an asymptote for us. Not counting pairings that are over chronologically (eg. Feenie/Dahlia), there are very few pairings in the GS series that are not on such an asymptote...the Kitaki parents are one, but is anyone seriously gonna ship that -_- ? However, and I don't mean to offend other shippers, in my opinion the material we can extract from the script puts P/M closer to this asymptote than nearly any other comparable ship. I'd argue that we're closer to it than any of the other Phoenix/someone or Maya/someone pairings. Thanks =D I guess your point makes sense. But it might also be because we see Maya and Nick's interactions the most. I'm pretty convinced that Maya is in love with Nick, perhaps she doesn't realise it's love yet. She did grew up in Kurain without much contact with guys, and I often wonder if her views on love is similar to Pearl's (ie she thinks love is supposed to be fairytale-like, so she doesn't realise what she has with Nick may in fact be love). Nick's the only guy she has significant contact with, so I think for her, I can't see her end up with anyone other than Nick (unless there's arranged marriages or something >__< ) But with Nick... First of all, because the game itself isn't the Romance genre, even though we hear Nick's thoughts, I think it's expected that we don't go too deep into his Romance department, however odd it may seem (Personally I think Nick's just not interested in Romance atm, being too focused on his career and all that). JFA had me pretty convinced that Maya is the closest to him, and he might even have romantic feelings for her. But then you get to T&T and Iris/Dahlia is introduced... Equilibrate Concerto wrote: As for the credits quote...it's an excellent observation. Here are my thoughts: The underarching story of GS3 vis a vis our pairing was to test its strength, romantic or not. I'm not going to jump through the hoops of symbolism right now, so to make it short, by running across the burning bridge, Phoenix choses his bond with Maya over any other bond, namely with Iris. The thing that supports romance is that the bond that he doesn't choose, Feenie/Iris, had once been a romantic relationship, so a future potential P/M romance is implied in a "if not A, then B" sort of way (This is where everyone assumes that Phoenix has to be paired with someone in the end, but the developers leave all sorts of hints, so why not?). Fanon again has to step in to answer for the precise implications of the credits quote, and it, like the entire ending credits, allows an avenue for people to support whatever they want to support. My personal view is that the "sibling" statement is relatively negligible compared to the aforementioned "strength test". Perhaps Maya doesn't know any differently? And who's to say that a "sibling" relationship can't evolve? And the sentence is grammatically ambiguous anyway... insubstantial reasons, I know, but if I were to assume that Phoenix has to be with someone in the end, it would have to be Maya. I don't think his relationship, despite being 6 months long, went that far with "Dahlia" (of course, this is also Feenie, who is a crybaby and only know puppy-love). But I wonder if that incident scarred him so much that he got all disillusioned about love and therefore is avoiding relationships altogether. He obviously hasn't forgotten about Dahlia, seeing his reaction to when they met Iris, and he specifically asked about the college student Dahlia dated. And in the epilogue, Iris was saying how he kept on looking at her when they visited her. Does he still have lingering feelings from that time? especially now that he knows the girl he dated wasn't evil after all (even though she lied to him). (I'm guessing that line was also the writers leaving it open-ended and up to interpretation) But I think the reason I prefer Phoenix/Maya to Phoenix/Iris is because we actually get to see Nick and Maya's interactions, whereas with Iris it's been assumed. The thing is though, imo for a sexual romantic relationship to work, you need a strong bond, but physical attraction is another aspect of it. Other than the maid scene (haha maybe Nick has a maid fetish XD), neither Nick nor Maya seem to give off that vibe about each other. I guess this sounds really subjective, but they never really flirt, or anything that seems to be like flirting anyway. They do tease each other a lot, but Nick teasing Maya seems more like teasing a little sister to me, and Maya's teasing reminds me of between best friends. Maybe it's just not shown on screen because of the genre of the game, or Nick's simply has the romantic awareness of a brick, but I don't sense a lot of... sexual tension I guess... icer wrote: It can be compared to Diego-Mia in a way. It's considered near-canon, but the reality is that GS3 itself has little concrete evidence that Mia has mutual feeling for Diego. I thought Diego x Mia is more or less confirmed in the game, 'cause Grossberg mentioned the victim of the poisoning being her boyfriend (and this is before we even meet Diego/Godot) Equilibrate Concerto wrote: From the two quotes we can notice that Phoenix is really vague about his private life in general with quotes like "it's a long story, like a lot of things actually". This is probably pulling hairs but Apollo's silent comment about "not buying them" in the TV examination implies that the TV is chronologically examined before the DVD stack (since if he had heard about the "kid", he would not assume that Phoenix was buying the DVDs himself)! So Apollo is actually poking around a lot and Phoenix is getting annoyed. So when Apollo says "They're all children's action hero shows", Phoenix's "kid" serves the triple purpose of 1) Conveying his annoyance to Apollo (note that polly responds "Huh.", which could be interpreted different ways), 2) Let us know Phoenix and Maya are still friends (which allows us to make our own interpretations), and at the same time 3) Preventing unnecessary questions about Maya that may get her involved in the cases. This is where fanon takes the wheel as we don't know what Maya's role in all of this is, but here's my view: Phoenix, after all, has entrusted his fate in a rookie attorney to somehow make the jury system work in his favor. But what if he were to fail? Of course Phoenix wouldn't want to imply any connection between his "mission" and Maya, or any of his old friends for that matter. So that was a roundabout way of saying that I do not believe that the DVD seen does anything to refute, or really confirm for that matter, the pairing. Good point, he was probably half-joking about the "kid" by being vague. Like P!ATD, I also initially thought it was actually Pearl who was the kid he referred to. Because I think Pearl wouldn't have the finances to send all those discs XD I guess it's supposed to be an Easter Egg and not to be read too deep into either way. But speaking of AJ, another thing that kinda irked me is that after Nick's last trial, and he's talking to Trucy in the office, it feels like he's all alone Spoiler: quotes That last line, I interpret it as if Trucy was the only thing that kept Nick from falling into despair. Maya's absence from the trial itself can be explained. But I imagine that Maya would come running to the office to console him, or at least make sure he's all right after hearing what happened. Maybe Nick didn't want to contact her because he was ashamed, or doesn't want to trouble her or her village. But it's all over the news (as Apollo said), so I'm pretty sure she heard about it. It's not like she's confined to Kurain and can't leave ever. You'd think no matter how busy she was, she'd take some time to sneak down. I know the development reason for this, 'cause Takumi didn't want to put Maya in AJ, but it still doesn't sit well with me, like there's a plot hole somewhere XD Or you know, I could be reading too much into that line. icer wrote: Spoiler: pics! attempt at translation wrote: Maya: Am I not inferior**? (small text = "Naruhodo-kun" = Nick) Nick: B-Baka! (I-idiot) ** according to my dictionary, the word she uses "kahai" can be mean "inferior" or "additional ration" (depending on the kanji), but it's written in hiragana so I'm not sure which meaning it's supposed to be.. "additional ration" sounds weird, but it is talking about food, and it's Maya, so it could be a metaphor or something >__< Speaking of fanart, I just finished mine: http://maplerose.deviantart.com/art/PW- ... -160676164
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| Author: | icer [ Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: Yeah, there's no doubt that they're close, but I guess I can't decide if I see them in a romantic relationship or the asexual platonic soul mates bff much like Nick and Mia XD (and tbh, sometimes Nick feels like Maya's babysitter) What do you WANT to 'see', after the games? The canon has literally left it to the players' choice of imagination.. The games give us all the basis to reasonably support the P/M concept; and really all that's required to ship it is to like the idea and to have the capacity to imagine it at some point of time in the future, no matter how far away. Equilibrate Concerto wrote: However, and I don't mean to offend other shippers, in my opinion the material we can extract from the script puts P/M closer to this asymptote than nearly any other comparable ship. I'd argue that we're closer to it than any of the other Phoenix/someone or Maya/someone pairings. Ah, you taught me a new word. And it describes the concept perfectly. See, P/M is sooo educational... Quote: But with Nick... First of all, because the game itself isn't the Romance genre, even though we hear Nick's thoughts, I think it's expected that we don't go too deep into his Romance department, however odd it may seem (Personally I think Nick's just not interested in Romance atm, being too focused on his career and all that). JFA had me pretty convinced that Maya is the closest to him, and he might even have romantic feelings for her. But then you get to T&T and Iris/Dahlia is introduced... There's a progression over the course of the games in the closeness/extremity of the Phoenix-Maya partnership. Similarly, feelings of physical attraction could progress over time - people can BECOME attractive. The situation where they met well explains why there may not have been INITIAL bond based on physical/romantic attraction -P/M in game 1 is questionable, borderline pedo. Phoenix wouldn't have seen her that way initially. But Maya just gets older, supposedly she's more mature and taking on her true 'adult' role after 3-5 - which of course, includes still being Phoenix's 'partner'. He can progress to seeing her in a slightly different context. Another support the Dahlia/Iris story has for P/M is that the lingering trauma from the Dahlia thing may have subconsciously or otherwise made Phoenix deny/not pursue any kind of 'romantic' feelings. The partnership they have is clearly the closest thing in reality to his 'partnership' fantasy he never really had with 'Dollie' [Maya WILL support him and believe in him to the death!] viewing it in a romantic context may have reinvoked trauma or maybe Phoenix doesn't believe in fairytale romance any more, so he doesn't notice it when it slaps him in the face. Once he gets closure after 3-5 this would not be a problem. And it's clear that Phoenix would have a greater awareness of how much Maya and their 'partnership' actually means to him after the whole 3-5 breakdown/demanding Maya's return scene [the 'only' thing I want!]. We only see limited interaction between them after that. Set it to sink in for a few months/years, recalling also that Pearl will slap down any other potential derailments... The entire existence of the Dahlia-Dollie-Iris plot is some of the best 'romantic' P/M evidence we have, though it gets heavily into symbolics. [Maya even gets a rival - a fake 'partner' to prove the genuine P-M partnership!] Basically, however, Phoenix clearly recognises his partner Maya as the true and genuine relationship of value, platonic or not, they're the partners canonically together for the 'happy end'. It's also 'proven' in court to be a partnership he *can* believe in, in the way 3-1 Phoenix-> Dollie and Phoenix-> Iris and 3-4 Terry-> Dahlia were not. And its framed as being the reality version of what he desired in his 'romantic' partnership, which frames P-M romantically from Phoenix's end, which is, interesting, to say the least. Quote: The thing is though, imo for a sexual romantic relationship to work, you need a strong bond, but physical attraction is another aspect of it. Other than the maid scene (haha maybe Nick has a maid fetish XD), neither Nick nor Maya seem to give off that vibe about each other. I guess this sounds really subjective, but they never really flirt, or anything that seems to be like flirting anyway. They do tease each other a lot, but Nick teasing Maya seems more like teasing a little sister to me, and Maya's teasing reminds me of between best friends. Maybe it's just not shown on screen because of the genre of the game, or Nick's simply has the romantic awareness of a brick, but I don't sense a lot of... sexual tension I guess... There's nothing at all to indicate they're NOT physically attracted, in the way surrogate siblings would get psuedocest undertones. They [especially Maya] break an awful lot of 'just friends' boundaries even in the limited portrayal of the games [and it's not like the sprites even cater to two-person interactions in those games...] I don't know to what conscious level Maya is aware she has a thing for Phoenix in that specific vein, being immature and all, but I think she'd be able to better recognise it in a few [even, say 7] years. One reason we don't get explicit inignorable canon P/M, I believe, is that it would have to be handled tastfully for it not to look like Phoenix is taking advantage of her immaturity and trust in him from day 1, and it would be hard to deal with this with the focus of crime plots and such rather than romance. And really, how do they show that kind of tension w/Phoenix in the games? They make him blush and occasional lewd jokes (April May?). He blushed to Pearl's assertions, and the lewd jokes would be tasteless. And yes, he probably does have the romantic awareness of a brick.... As for the maid scene, Phoenix didn't freak out when he saw Maggey or Mia in the maid uniform, so I don't think it can be put specifically to a maid fetish. It does, however, show his perspective changes in an *interesting* direction when he views Maya marginally outside his usual context. And if we did get a scene where Phoenix undeniably flirts with Maya, it would sink every single other ship, because these two already have the kind of relationship which screams 'life partners'. Which ruins other shippers' fun. I think some of the staff [such as Pearl's char designer, definitely] but not all were P/M shippers. It doesn't matter if it's not explicit within the game scenes. Can you imagine it becoming more 'romantic' attraction that way in future? There's no end date to shippings, either. Phoenix realises how much he values Maya in the games when he's about to lose her, so a little time and distance could easily trigger seeing her in a slightly different light. No offense to other pairings but i have considerable difficulty imagining other pairings after the GS4 story, particularly. In some ways the dynamic/loyalty of their 'partnership' more closely resembles a long-married couple who's not candidate for divorce, rather than the intense and 'romantic' stages of romantic attraction. Yeah, it's all very atypical, but we think it would form the basis to underpin an amazing romantic partnership. It was Our Secret Mission who broke the 4th wall with 'In typical P/M fashion, we're doing everything backwards'. Quote: I thought Diego x Mia is more or less confirmed in the game, 'cause Grossberg mentioned the victim of the poisoning being her boyfriend (and this is before we even meet Diego/Godot) And Dahlia calls Maya Phoenix's girlfriend in 3-5: "She's your girlfriend, isn't she?" and he doesn't deny. It's identical to the Mia-Grossberg exchange. Mia doesn't deny, but she doesn't confirm it either. She could be mad over her arch rival Dahlia murdering another innocent person - Diego, who she clearly knew as an associate even if they weren't 'in love'. There's a difference between Mia, say, agreeing to go on one date with Diego and being in love with him. Court is clearly not the time for Mia to clarify, and it would all be tactless since Diego is deceased. Of course I'm not trying to argue that assuming Diego/Mia is unreasonable - because it isn't. But I'm making a point here.Pretend there was a concurrent hyper-popular Mia/SomeoneElse fan ship from game 1 or 2, and imagine the denials and arguing. Mia never appears to Diego or says anything kind and loving when she's channelled. Mia never hits on Diego in 3-4 or indicates at all she considers him attractive, it's all one-sided. Mia never gives any confirmation on their relationship. Mia isn't too upset when he's taken off as a murderer. Etc. And what's more, we're IN MIA'S HEAD in 3-1 and 3-4, so we could have seen her inner thoughts on Diego, too. A near-canon pairing can be ripped to shreds from Mia's end based on the portrayals this game gives us. Quote: I guess it's supposed to be an Easter Egg and not to be read too deep into either way. Yes. What we should take out of it is that Phoenix and Maya are still clearly close friends of undefined nature. Which is enough to make P/M, then or in the future, plausible, based on what was built up in games 1-3 of course. Quote: But speaking of AJ, another thing that kinda irked me is that after Nick's last trial, and he's talking to Trucy in the office, it feels like he's all alone But you can see that's a plothole even if their relationship IS only 'sibling' Maya would never abandon her 'brother', either. Similarly, Edgeworth's apparent disappearance from Phoenix's life can seem implausible, without having to ship P/E. The entire GS4 game and MASON System especially has to be taken with a grain of salt [time travel?] It's, of course, the biggest source of controversy and divisiveness in the fandom, even more than pairings probably. Looks like it *can* be viewed as semi-AU. Takumi felt he was writing a 'different story' and they made no attempt at continuity to anything except Matsukawa's baby 1-5 and , by extension, game 1. I view 3-5, not AJ, as the official line on the Phoenix-Maya partnership, because Maya and Edgeworth clearly did not receive plotwise comprehension. it was, however, considered important enough to show that the relationship still exists even in 'another story' [DVDs]. Oh, and the MAGATAMA. That's a big one. If they did not have a close relationship still, Maya would want it BACK... but he's still using it in 4-4. It's a priceless Fey object, and pretty much the symbolic object of their 'partnership upgrade' in 2-2. Now I'm betting if we asked what Phoenix was doing on his 'secret missions' in AJ, we WOULD be told the usual on it's plotwise undefined and up to the players' imagination and whatever. Quote: Speaking of fanart, I just finished mine: http://maplerose.deviantart.com/art/PW- ... -160676164 And that's amazing. So I hope you warm to P/M enough to draw more *pleading eyes* Oh, forgot to reply last time about the 3-2 scene. P/M detractors eagerly claim this somehow sank the ship, but it doesn't. I mean, I used to ship P/E after I played game 1, although I was liking the P-M partnership better by game 2 I managed to ignore all Pearl's 'shippings', partly because I remember being told that P/M was going to be 'proven' incorrect by the scene. And much as I wanted to be in denial, when I played it, it clearly didn't at all. Especially when actually taken in the context of the game plot. The only thing it 'proves' is that they are not actively involved in an official admitted 'romantic relationship' at this point in time, but we would not think this anyway! And even [i]this is ambiguous. Pearl has 'the wrong idea' even if they WERE romantic partners. I mean, look what the conversation is REALLY about. Pearl thinks that Phoenix has 'betrayed' Maya by taking Ron's case - even when MAYA herself is okay with it! Pearl's ideas of what Phoenix 'should' do if he loves Maya -romantic or not - are clearly unworkable in reality. And in reality, MAYA doesn't see it as betrayal. So, ironically enough, the partnership they really do have is stronger than Pearl's childish fairytale notions. And what are we seeing this straight after? 3-1 and delusional Feenie with his unrealistic fantasy ideas of romantic relationships and partnerships! It's essential for new players [that's their intro to Phoenix!] and people who haven't played game 2 for ages to demonstrate here Phoenix is no longer delusional, childish Feenie -and that his belief in Maya and their partnership is not similarly caused by fairytale fantasy idiocy. Also notice Maya denies NOTHING. Pearl's ideas are clearly unrealistic even if they were romantic partners, and Maya even gets briefly embarrassed over how Pearl got those ideas. Phoenix: And what about you...? Are you okay with me taking Mr Delite's case? Maya: Y-yeah. I'm fine, Nick. I believe in you. Phoenix: ... *sniffle* I think I'm going to cry. Unlike Feenie with his impossible fairytale ideals over Dollie, their relationship is of a more mature and durable variant. It's not a disaster or 'betrayal' as it would be in Feenie/Pearl irrationality. |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: But with Nick... First of all, because the game itself isn't the Romance genre, even though we hear Nick's thoughts, I think it's expected that we don't go too deep into his Romance department, however odd it may seem (Personally I think Nick's just not interested in Romance atm, being too focused on his career and all that). JFA had me pretty convinced that Maya is the closest to him, and he might even have romantic feelings for her. But then you get to T&T and Iris/Dahlia is introduced... True, at least until after T&T I don't think anything romantic happened between Nick and Maya because of the reasons you said. And yes, since PW isn't in the romance genre we shouldn't expect much more than an extremely strong friendship. This is where shippers come in and take that friendship that extra step forward. Now, as to Phoenix/Iris...yes, GS3 introduces Iris, or rather her avatar, as a former girlfriend for Phoenix. However, whether this means that Phoenix will continue with Iris after 3-5 is debatable by the bottle parallel. I've been gone for a long while; my knowledge of the plot symbolics is kinda rusty so bear with me. There are three parallel trios in GS3. 3-1: Phoenix-*Iris-Dahlia p3-4 and 3-4: Terry-Dahlia-Valerie 3-5: Phoenix-Maya-Dahlia *Actually Dahlia for all Phoenix knows. p3-4 refers to the case 5 years before 3-4. Phoenix in 3-1 and Terry in p3-4/3-4 both have a very...fantastical view on their relationship with *Iris and Dahlia respectively. From their point of view, all is going well until "Person 3" steps in: Dahlia and Valerie respectively. What happens is that "Person 2" steps out of the picture: In 3-1 *Iris is replaced by Dahlia | and in p3-4, Dahlia jumped off the bridge. This in itself is significant. Given Phoenix and Terry's past devotion to their respective relationships, the departure of *Iris and Dahlia is a symbol of betrayal! Furthermore, both *Iris and Dahlia vanish completely after 3-1 and p3-4 until five years later. Meanwhile, both Phoenix/*Iris and Terry/Dahlia find parallel symbolism in the poison bottle (the same bottle, in fact). Both see the bottle as a symbol of their relationship (in Phoenix's case, it's because he's too love-stricken to think otherwise XD). Now, this is where we can connect 3-1 AKA p3-5 to 3-4. Recall what the end results of these "contracts" were: 3-4: Terry drinks the poison from the bottle and dies. 3-1: "I ate it" Recall the both foolish acts occur in the face of events that cause Terry and Nick to doubt their trust in their respective partners: In 3-4, it is coming to light that Dahlia had never built her side of their metaphorical bridge and had betrayed him from the beginning. In 3-1, Phoenix has just been presented with cold hard evidence that Dahlia is guilty. In the case of 3-1, it also includes a complete breakdown. A further parallel is in what happens afterwards. In 3-4, Terry is still clinging to his belief in the relationship even as he dies. His dying words affirm his belief in the "Dollie" that he once knew even though they also indicate at least some realization that Mia was right. Note, that this is not the betrayer Dahlia that we all know and love. Similarly, after the bottle incident, Phoenix no longer is blindly defending Dahlia, yet at the same time he affirms his belief in "some other Dollie" ie. *Iris while at the same time acknowledging that Mia was right. HOWEVER, even though they both still maintained a belief in the goodness of their partners, this does not mean a belief in the continual strength of their bond. This is because of the nature of the acts themselves. Remember that the bottle was a symbol of their love, and by destroying the bottle/drinking the poison, they were symbolically severing the "relationship". So even though Iris was "the same person I believed in all these years" or something to that effect (see end of 3-5), this doesn't mean the Phoenix has any obligatory romantic attachment to her any longer. Remember that at the end of 3-5, Phoenix is given the perfect opportunity to get back with Iris, but he DOESN'T. This is just like how he has the perfect opportunity to deny a relationship with Maya, but he doesn't. Of course, I've been ignoring the elephant in the room...running across the burning bridge in 3-5. This is an obvious parallel with 3-1's bottle in that something has happened (in both cases, this is signified by LIGHTNING) that threatens to destroy Phoenix's relationships. I mentioned the implications for Phoenix/Maya romance earlier; the difference is that the 3-5 bridge gets fixed afterwards. In 3-1 Mia tells Phoenix to forget about Dahlia and move on. In 3-5 Godot tells him "once you eliminate the impossible, all that remains is the truth". So in 3-1, Phoenix sees a future relationship with Dahlia as an impossibility, whereas in 3-5 he demonstrates that it is impossible for his relationship with Maya to be put to such an end. They built the bridge together and Phoenix is NOT going to let it burn to the ground! There's so much more to say on this, but not enough space...so if you want to know more, you should read icer's essay: http://icer.110mb.com/gs3partners.html (which, btw icer, is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME, I forgot to mention earlier) It basically says everything I just said and much much more. MapleRose wrote: I don't think his relationship, despite being 6 months long, went that far with "Dahlia" (of course, this is also Feenie, who is a crybaby and only know puppy-love). But I wonder if that incident scarred him so much that he got all disillusioned about love and therefore is avoiding relationships altogether. Then again, emotional scarring is certainly a possibility...XD And then it becomes "if not Maya, then no one". MapleRose wrote: But I think the reason I prefer Phoenix/Maya to Phoenix/Iris is because we actually get to see Nick and Maya's interactions, whereas with Iris it's been assumed. I agree, and to me Phoenix/Maya just seems so much cuter as a result. MapleRose wrote: He obviously hasn't forgotten about Dahlia, seeing his reaction to when they met Iris, and he specifically asked about the college student Dahlia dated. And in the epilogue, Iris was saying how he kept on looking at her when they visited her. Does he still have lingering feelings from that time? especially now that he knows the girl he dated wasn't evil after all (even though she lied to him). (I'm guessing that line was also the writers leaving it open-ended and up to interpretation) Yes, that was probably placed there to leave the interpretation to the fans. The Phoenix/Maya response to that would be that he still brought "everyone else" with him. ...I think we should start moving this thread away from the P/M vs. P/I debate before we...erm...brandish our swords too much...but... MapleRose wrote: The thing is though, imo for a sexual romantic relationship to work, you need a strong bond, but physical attraction is another aspect of it. Other than the maid scene (haha maybe Nick has a maid fetish XD), neither Nick nor Maya seem to give off that vibe about each other. I guess this sounds really subjective, but they never really flirt, or anything that seems to be like flirting anyway. They do tease each other a lot, but Nick teasing Maya seems more like teasing a little sister to me, and Maya's teasing reminds me of between best friends. Maybe it's just not shown on screen because of the genre of the game, or Nick's simply has the romantic awareness of a brick, but I don't sense a lot of... sexual tension I guess... Well, like you said, Nick does seem like the sort of person to have the romantic awareness of a brick! He's just the evolved form of Feenie after all... XD But in all seriousness, I think it does have to do with the genre thing where it's left up to interpretation. We're given the evidence list that you've read, and in this sort of game that's the best we can hope for. MapleRose wrote: That last line, I interpret it as if Trucy was the only thing that kept Nick from falling into despair. Maya's absence from the trial itself can be explained. But I imagine that Maya would come running to the office to console him, or at least make sure he's all right after hearing what happened. Maybe Nick didn't want to contact her because he was ashamed, or doesn't want to trouble her or her village. But it's all over the news (as Apollo said), so I'm pretty sure she heard about it. It's not like she's confined to Kurain and can't leave ever. You'd think no matter how busy she was, she'd take some time to sneak down. I know the development reason for this, 'cause Takumi didn't want to put Maya in AJ, but it still doesn't sit well with me, like there's a plot hole somewhere XD We can't take the MASON System at face value. There is reason to believe that the MASON System is really just one big presentation put on by Phoenix to try and sway the in-game jury in his favor. The opposing view is just as it appears: that he's presenting it to the actual player to fill them in on what happened seven years ago. In my opinion, the two views are equivalent. Remember at the end of the trial, we are placed in the role of the last jurist (either Thalassa or someone else)? So to look backwards, it is a presentation to the player who is to decide his fate in the role of a jurist. This means that even though he is filling in the player the supposed "truth", Nick can get away with being an unreliable narrator since the player he's telling the "truth" to is actually an in-game figure at that point in time. So I'm of the school of thought that believe that the MASON System (and maybe the entire AJ?) is but an abridged version of what actually occurred, bent in a way that would work most expediently in Nick's favor. And this is what gives vindication to the many fanfics out there that try and answer the question of "what exactly were Maya, Edgeworth, etc. etc. etc. doing all this time?". So I'm going to stand by my earlier statement of his secrecy being an effort to protect his friends from a potential backlash if his plans were to fail. (Sorry I have to rush my explanation here, I just realize I have 2 chem problem sets I need to get done by tomorrow XD) MapleRose wrote: Speaking of fanart, I just finished mine: http://maplerose.deviantart.com/art/PW- ... -160676164 I love this! =) |
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| Author: | Greener223 [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
dudes, are you ocd or something to get all this long post!? |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Welcome, MapleRose. I don't have time to read any of your long comments now( Or any of you guys, sorry. Stupid math test.) Anyway, I read the start of your first comment about your problem: MayaXNick, romance or brotherhood? Well, when I tried to explain how aweosme MayaXNick are(When he was completly against them. He's now a fan. YAY.) I had the same problem, so I searched a little(Well, a lot,) and I found a proof it's way more than a brother\sister relationship. All of the evidence can lead to both ways, romantic relationship or brother\sister. Except for one. Spoiler: Spoilers for 3-5 |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Greener223 wrote: dudes, are you ocd or something to get all this long post!? When it comes to Phoenix/Maya? Actually, yes... 
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| Author: | icer [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Equilibrate Concerto wrote: There's so much more to say on this, but not enough space...so if you want to know more, you should read icer's essay: http://icer.110mb.com/gs3partners.html (which, btw icer, is ABSOLUTELY AWESOME, I forgot to mention earlier) It basically says everything I just said and much much more. Hmm, it's too long to be an 'essay' probably. It's more an anti P/I theory admittedly. Equilibrate Concerto came up with all the basis of the theory and I just expanded on it. I should try to write a summary or an abstract or something, it's too long for anyone to be expected to actually read it. MapleRose wrote: He obviously hasn't forgotten about Dahlia, seeing his reaction to when they met Iris, and he specifically asked about the college student Dahlia dated. And in the epilogue, Iris was saying how he kept on looking at her when they visited her. Does he still have lingering feelings from that time? especially now that he knows the girl he dated wasn't evil after all (even though she lied to him). (I'm guessing that line was also the writers leaving it open-ended and up to interpretation) Oh, the credits scene. Basically that's the stinger joke. Which isn’t much to base a pairing off. Spoiler: Anti P/I warning:  Quote: 'So I'm going to stand by my earlier statement of his secrecy being an effort to protect his friends from a potential backlash if his plans were to fail.' That's a great idea. Though personally, I never saw the MASON System as Phoenix's literal presentaion to the jury. Unless the 'Jury' is the even more 4th wall breaking literal Player. There's outrageous levels of ambiguity on practically everything to do with Phoenix in AJ... BlackWiddow wrote: Spoiler: Spoilers for 3-5 That's a really cute idea. And probably true. BlackWiddow wrote: Chapter 4 was great, but damn, the chapters are too short. Update faster TT We're going to get to some overly-long chapters soon, don't worry. Read chapter 5! Which is also short, sorry. Ah! A murder!  I actually do think there's a touching scene in this... |
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| Author: | Icarus [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Fucking Maya/Nick, how do they work? |
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| Author: | Toby Danger [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Icarus wrote: Fucking Maya/Nick, how do they work? Eh? You mean... how do they have sex? I would imagine the same as everyone else. |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
icer wrote: Hmm, it's too long to be an 'essay' probably. It's more an anti P/I theory admittedly. Equilibrate Concerto came up with all the basis of the theory and I just expanded on it. I should try to write a summary or an abstract or something, it's too long for anyone to be expected to actually read it. Haha, well icer was the one who prompted me to come up with something "deep and meaningful" about the bridge metaphor (which at the time I saw as still a literal expression of Nick's dedication). I really wish we didn't have to bash other pairings to construct a symbolic basis for our own though...conflicting pairings sort of work like that I guess... icer wrote: That's a great idea. Though personally, I never saw the MASON System as Phoenix's literal presentaion to the jury. Unless the 'Jury' is the even more 4th wall breaking literal Player. There's outrageous levels of ambiguity on practically everything to do with Phoenix in AJ... That's how I think it is actually, with the 4th wall breaking and all. Since right after the court session ends, Phoenix is left wrapping up the case against the black background, and then we are placed in the role of one of the jurists. Toby Danger wrote: Eh? You mean... how do they have sex? I would imagine the same as everyone else. Well, first Nick rolls over and then...  Sorry! Sorry! But someone had to say it... |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Well, I guess Phoenix is always up... cus of his spikes.... *Oh jeez back to the topic!* Icer, I agree with you with all that anti P\I stuff. Plus, Spoiler: DIE Iris ^^ Oh, and I agree because I hate Iris too. ^^ Well, for another topic, I found a website full of MayaXNick doujinshis(=short comics that fans drew.) http://www.nanatsuyoru.co.cc/aceattorne ... slated.php All of the doujinshis are awesome and well-painted. I found some free time to read them all, and I recommend on "A wise man's mistake"(page 1) and "Switch" (also page 1.) These two were great. |
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| Author: | Greener223 [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
ok, just because Mayick is FTW, it doesn't mean that Iris is evil |
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Greener223 wrote: ok, just because Mayick is FTW, it doesn't mean that Iris is evil mmm you're right. Discussing how P/M makes more cannon sense than P/I is one thing, but attacking Iris as a character is taking it too far. I know I've stepped over the line on multiple occasions in this topic, and I'm sorry for that, especially for any bad blood I may have caused due to the bridge theory and all. And for the record I don't hate Iris at all. Not as a character, and not as a possible love interest for Nick. Yes, I see Phoenix/Iris as canonically invalid, and will continue to argue as such, but I have nothing against people who ship it or the act of shipping it. In being a rival Phoenix pairing, Iris has an important role in the shipping community. Obviously a lot of people will want to pair the main character with someone. However, not all shippers (myself included) buy into the whole Phoenix/Edgeworth thing, not everyone supports Phoenix/Maya, and pretty much all the other Phoenix pairings are crack. So from a developer's standpoint Iris provided a necessary alternative. The main theme here is options. |
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| Author: | icer [ Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Equilibrate Concerto wrote: I really wish we didn't have to bash other pairings to construct a symbolic basis for our own though...conflicting pairings sort of work like that I guess... Yes, it's unfortunate, but that's how it is. It's a case of Iris being intrinsically wrapped up in their whole 'Dollie'/unpartner/'nightmare irony instead of stereotype' plot, and it's her sole appearence, so role. To support my point, we don't sit around here making anti P/E theories, do we. So far as I'm concerned, 'bashing' is along the lines of 'I hate Iris because I do'.'And she's a Mary Sue without explaining why'. Taking the time to form valid arguments instead of just blindly dismissing the concept 'cause we don't like it is showing respect to P/I fans  I personally think Iris is portrayed as future P/I being a bad idea for her as well. Iris is not a Mary Sue, but she would be forced to magically become one for the P/I concept. The point is she was set free from the Dollie Lie and Dahlia to be herself. And I don't think Phoenix would even appreciate her reality self, he's shown not to in the very games. They're just... not very compatible, their actual traits and value systems are not complimentary in a positive sense. No pairing is ever 'impossible' [people can ship what they like, if they really want to] but some are clearly portrayed as more viable a future viability and likelihood by the canon and its narrative structure itself than others. I might make a relation-smoothing speech here to reduce offense, but some people around here have unreasonably overreacted in the past, so I'm not.  Quote: That's how I think it is actually, with the 4th wall breaking and all. Since right after the court session ends, Phoenix is left wrapping up the case against the black background, and then we are placed in the role of one of the jurists. I think there was a level of 4th wall breaking of the entire game. The player is playing 'jurist' on Phoenix from moment 1 of the game, he's on trial in the player's mind - did he forge the evidence? Has he really turned bad? Which ends up with the more literal manifestation on the 'playing jurist' thing at the end. I don't think the MASON is exactly what Phoenix presented to the in-world jury, but maybe to the player-jurist. This also helps account earlier for Apollo's um, genericness and lack of self-defined motivations - maybe the player is supposed to be self-inserting. Icarus wrote: Fucking Maya/Nick, how do they work? Well I think maybe they were expressing their incredulity at the pairing, but this is the one thread where we all read it differently. It might get our minds off P/I! *goes to reread 'The Tough Decision' and 'Just Like A Fairytale'* |
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| Author: | MapleRose [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
I think the reason I was sitting on the fence was 'cause I still see Maya as immature girl, and Nick as her babysitter, so I find it hard to imagine them doing more than friendly hugging . For sure their bond is tight, and they have a good partnership going on. But you guys are right, who knows, maybe in a few years after 3-5, when Maya gets more mature and Nick gets over his trauma, they might find each other attractive in that kind of way XD Besides, I think it's much better to have a trusting relationship where you're not afraid to tease each other, than just a lovey-dovey one based purely on fairytale ideals and hormones (Feenie x Dollie for example)With regards to Iris, I mainly feel sorry for her, being caught between her love and duty to her sister and her love for Nick.. She's a kind person, but doesn't seem to be brave enough to do things on her own. Unlike Maya who would sacrifice her life for Nick's career, she wasn't even brave enough to tell Nick the truth when they were dating because she wanted to protect her sister more. My friend kept on wondering why she had to pretend to be Dahlia to get the bottle back, instead of just telling him the truth. Or why she didn't talk to Feenie seriously that the bottle was very important to her to give it back. Feenie didn't believe her or take her very seriously, despite dating her. I am SO glad Nick evolved though, and I hope he doesn't devolve into Feenie again XD As for the MASON system, yeah I think you guys are probably right, in that Nick's probably not being a reliable narrator there, since he's presenting his "game" to the jury. He probably excluded people who are not related to the case to make it simpler. I guess when you think about it, his friends probably were there to help him, I mean, someone let him into the Detention Center to talk to Valant. I doubt they'd let a disbarred, disgraced lawyer visit Valant if Gumshoe or someone didn't beg whoeever it was in charge to let him visit XD Not to mention how Nick somehow got to be in charge of the whole Jurist System... And is it just me, or do you think Maya send him more than just DVDs? I doubt fake piano-playing and poker-playing earns that much money to feed both him and Trucy, and keep the office running with the expenses (although I think he lives at the office). Besides, Maya's probably rich now that Kurain's reputation is being rebuilt and she's the Master XD Now it makes me wonder if Trucy met Maya during those 7 years, or know about her.... I think I wanna write some fanfics now
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| Author: | Icarus [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
icer wrote: Icarus wrote: Fucking Maya/Nick, how do they work? Well I think maybe they were expressing their incredulity at the pairing, but this is the one thread where we all read it differently. It might get our minds off P/I! *goes to reread 'The Tough Decision' and 'Just Like A Fairytale'* Looks like somebody hasn't seen the amazing new Insane Clown Posse video. It's some deep shit. |
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| Author: | icer [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: And is it just me, or do you think Maya send him more than just DVDs? I doubt fake piano-playing and poker-playing earns that much money to feed both him and Trucy, and keep the office running with the expenses (although I think he lives at the office). Besides, Maya's probably rich now that Kurain's reputation is being rebuilt and she's the Master XD YES. I think she was paying the rent on the office. Why else would he keep it for his worthless 'talent agency', which only 'employed' him and Trucy? it was an unnecessary expense, and the office was rented. The 'Talent Agency' was so full of junk, it wasn't a good front for clients anyway. She's sending him money. There is no other reasonable explanation. Besides, Mia probably left the law firm stuff to her as well in her will [I assume Fey and Co. expired after Mia died, but all the internals were still there, I doubt Phoenix was mentioned in Mia's will.] He's not living at the office in game 1-3, but maybe he is by game 4, who knows. I should mention that in this club we tend to be fans of their ambiguous canon 'partnership' as well, since that would be the foundation of any 'romantic' shipping anyway. Quite likely the chars themselves would be confused over the slightly evolved form of this. Which just makes it more interesting. Icarus wrote: Looks like somebody hasn't seen the amazing new Insane Clown Posse video. It's some deep shit. Thank you for rectifying my unforgivable ignorance. |
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| Author: | BlackWiddow [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Greener223 wrote: ok, just because Mayick is FTW, it doesn't mean that Iris is evil You got it wrong. I hate Iris as a character, not only cus Mayick(It's nice, I like it xD) is FTW. But that's not for this topic O: MapleRose, good luck with the fics O: I'm waitin for it ^^ ------------------------ Math test is over(And I'm pretty sure that I have an A+) so I have plenty of free time now. I want to work on a new vid, not for the MayaXNick week, but damn, I still can't find a song. Actually my problem is, I don't want an AJ time fic songs. I have tons of them, but I can't explain it. I just feel like making a vid of them in 2016-2018. All of the songs are like "oh I miss you babe" and stuff like that(At least the songs that I thought about. O:) Any ideas? |
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| Author: | MapleRose [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
icer wrote: YES. I think she was paying the rent on the office. Why else would he keep it for his worthless 'talent agency', which only 'employed' him and Trucy? it was an unnecessary expense, and the office was rented. The 'Talent Agency' was so full of junk, it wasn't a good front for clients anyway. She's sending him money. There is no other reasonable explanation. Besides, Mia probably left the law firm stuff to her as well in her will [I assume Fey and Co. expired after Mia died, but all the internals were still there, I doubt Phoenix was mentioned in Mia's will.] He's not living at the office in game 1-3, but maybe he is by game 4, who knows. I kinda wonder if the office is actually rented or if it's bought out by Mia + Nick in those 10+ years since Mia first started Fey & Co. I dunno how office space works in Japan (or L.A.), but if it's like buying a house, they've probably paid it off by now, right? (though there's still utility fees and other bills) Haha, I always had the impression that they're living in the office. Well, not living in it, but like a room adjacent to it (maybe upstairs) or something XD |
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| Author: | icer [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
MapleRose wrote: Haha, I always had the impression that they're living in the office. Well, not living in it, but like a room adjacent to it (maybe upstairs) or something XD 1-3: -Phoenix A month has passed since my trial. -Phoenix Mia's murder was the talk of the town for some time... -Phoenix But no one paid any attention to the Wright & Co. Law Offices... -Phoenix How am I going to pay the rent this month? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Maya It'll be okay. -Maya I'm sure some big client is just around the corner! I assume that means the rent on Wright and Co. it certainly seems framed that way. It could mean the rent on Phoenix's own apartment, I guess, but that shows he doesn't live at the office anyway... Also, Phoenix answers his phone, location: Phoenix's Bedroom. Maya is calling about a case [1-3] telling him to hurry up and get to the office. It takes about an hour or something. Can't take that long to get dressed. October 16, 8:14 AM Phoenix Wright's Bedroom -Cellular Brrrrring... Brrrrring... -Cellular *beep* -Phoenix H-hello? This is Phoenix. -Maya N-N-Nick!!! -Phoenix Maya? What? It's still early... [...etc.] -Maya Just come to the office, quick! Please, Nick! -Cellular *beep* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- October 16, 9:22 AM Wright & Co. Law Offices -Phoenix (Maya's here... watching television.) But who knows, maybe there's adjacent room/s that Maya lives in, or at least Phoenix does by game 4. |
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| Author: | Roxy27 [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
... It's a long time that I haven't a look at the club and when i did it, wow XD! About the facebook group... I joined it the other day. I was dissapointed with the fact that the group have only 105 members... I supposed that it would have more people icer wrote: Spoiler: pics! I've fallen in love with that <3! Well, i've begun to write a fanfic. (MY FIRST FANFIC) but i am writing that in spanish (SPANISH? yes yes, I know. I would like writing it in english but...) so, owing to the fact that you won't read my fanfic because of the language, I will say you its story line. I hope you like it :D Spoiler: Story Line  Okey... ignoring all of gramatical mistakes that I have written T_T, What do you think about it? :D Thanks you! |
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| Author: | Hikari [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Loving all the evidence guys :3 I find reading long posts about P/M quite enjoyable, actually. It's about P/M! Of course it's enjoyable. That's why we're here. Quote: (about the MASON system) So to look backwards, it is a presentation to the player who is to decide his fate in the role of a jurist. This means that even though he is filling in the player the supposed "truth", Nick can get away with being an unreliable narrator since the player he's telling the "truth" to is actually an in-game figure at that point in time. So I'm of the school of thought that believe that the MASON System (and maybe the entire AJ?) is but an abridged version of what actually occurred, bent in a way that would work most expediently in Nick's favor. And this is what gives vindication to the many fanfics out there that try and answer the question of "what exactly were Maya, Edgeworth, etc. etc. etc. doing all this time?". So I'm going to stand by my earlier statement of his secrecy being an effort to protect his friends from a potential backlash if his plans were to fail. Or, AJ is a parallel 'videogame' universe that Phoenix is trapped in due to some cunning plan of Kristoph, and everything he does is an attempt to get out of it. Notice how the sprites are all shiny and pretty in AJ? It's a different dimension. And every Hobo/Maya fic takes place in this universe...and then when Phoenix escapes, we can have happy post 3-5 fics. And stuff. Pretty cracky, but awesome.
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| Author: | Equilibrate Concerto [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phoenix and Maya Fan Club |
Quote: Or, AJ is a parallel 'videogame' universe that Phoenix is trapped in due to some cunning plan of Kristoph, and everything he does is an attempt to get out of it. Notice how the sprites are all shiny and pretty in AJ? It's a different dimension. And every Hobo/Maya fic takes place in this universe...and then when Phoenix escapes, we can have happy post 3-5 fics. And stuff. Pretty cracky, but awesome It may be crack, but the very fact that a theory like this can be made shows how much Phoenix takes over the "main character" role, at Apollo's expense. Whatever it is, there's definitely a lot that we're not seeing. If there's one good thing that came out of these AJ shenanigans, it's the fanfic fuel. 
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