Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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evildiva wrote:
Here's another one for you (4-4)
Drew says he never knew what the gift from the client was, because Vera never told him. But you can see the nail polish is in plain view, so... how could he not know where it was from, if Vera never left the house? She couldn't have got it anywhere else!
Drew says he never knew what the gift from the client was, because Vera never told him. But you can see the nail polish is in plain view, so... how could he not know where it was from, if Vera never left the house? She couldn't have got it anywhere else!
Mail order? If Vera never leaves the house maybe she orders her clothes, equipment, and other things from magazines.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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(case 4-4)
If Phoenix, BEFORE case 4-4 was thought to be involved in forgery, why did the court allow him to conduct the investigation, and present the evidence to the jury when it isn't known that he was not actually the forger until DURING 4-4?
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evildiva wrote:
Another point... this was mentioned in a different thread:
(case 4-4)
If Phoenix, BEFORE case 4-4 was thought to be involved in forgery, why did the court allow him to conduct the investigation, and present the evidence to the jury when it isn't known that he was not actually the forger until DURING 4-4?
(case 4-4)
If Phoenix, BEFORE case 4-4 was thought to be involved in forgery, why did the court allow him to conduct the investigation, and present the evidence to the jury when it isn't known that he was not actually the forger until DURING 4-4?
Unfortunately, "How could they be that dumb!?" is not something we count as a contradiction, because then the premises of half the cases would be suspect. We don't know how Phoenix got the job, who might have arranged it, how much did Phoenix pull on his own without permission etc, therefore we can't know that it's necessarily a "contradiction."
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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TEH CONTRADICTION
lost his badge because he was caught presenting forged evidence, right? But in 4-4, 
was also caught presenting forged evidence. Why wasn't he disbarred?TEH SOLUTION
lost his badge because he was accused of actually ordering the forgery. In 4-4, the evidence presented was obviously forged by 
.TEH SADNESS
Because
has forged evidence, even though the suspicion of the Gramarye trial has cleared he still won't get his badge back.But, Capcom is known for contradictions in their storylines. We might see
as a lawyer again.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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GigaHand wrote:
TheSteelSamurai wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
Spoiler: 4-3
I believe I gave my thoughts on this already, but I would assume he saw the broach fall from the vent and figured she must be up there. Even if he was not told the truth behind the illusion, it's possible he knew about Valant's plan to make her disappear from the stage and reappear in the back of the hall. When he saw the broach fall, he could have put two and two together. Of course, regardless, her broach suddenly falling from the vent would suggest she was up there even if he had no idea why.
Only he didn't see the broach fall. There was a partition in the way, and even if he heard it (which is unlikely given the loudspeaker in the room) how would he know it was the broach?
He may not have seen it fall from the vent, but after it fell, it bounced into his line of sight for sure. The man was an interpol agent, so he could have put it together. And since he is her bodyguard, there's still the possibility he was told about the trick.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: 4-3 & 4-4
These 2 aren't contractions, more like questions.
Spoiler: 4-1
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
The yellow envelope wasn't considered forged-it was a replica made from the real thing, which Phoenix had recorded.
However, I do believe 
mentions nomething about not getting out of his "bad forging habit". This means they considered it to be forged.
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GigaHand wrote:
TheSteelSamurai wrote:
The yellow envelope wasn't considered forged-it was a replica made from the real thing, which Phoenix had recorded.
However, I do believe mentions nomething about not getting out of his "bad forging habit". This means they considered it to be forged.Kristoph may have considered it to be forged, but that does not equal the court's opinion.
But the envelope was never accepted in the court record, and Apollo did not try to convince everyone that it was the actual letter, so it's not nearly the same situation anyway.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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rydus65 wrote:
Spoiler: 4-3 & 4-4
Spoiler: 4-1
Spoiler: 4-3 & 4-4
Spoiler: 4-1
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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4-2- You find Wocky's Stickler's, and the slipper footprints. Should they find Pal Mekritis footprints as well. He was pushing a noodle cart, he looks like a big guy, and they have his footprints on file.
And yet another LeTouse death question. Why didn't Letouse say anything about the switch. He must of heard Daryan say "It's over, press the switch." To be fair though, maybe he was going to say it, but he died before he said it. Still.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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The cause of death was blood loss, which means he'd been bleeding for a long time before he died (and he was...)
Yet, when Apollo and Ema hear the "gunshots" which was actually the firecracker, Letouse died just two minutes later (It didn't seem like Apollo was talking to him for long)
Shouldn't they have realised something was strange then?
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Anyway, another 4-3 one but this is different. The judge claims he's made bigger mistakes than Ema not being able to prevent the killing of LeTouse. Other times in the series, though, we hear that he always gets the right verdict. This isn't so much a contradiction, but just what did he do then?
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MrCheeze wrote:
Well, it's page 19 and you're the first to notice that...
Anyway, another 4-3 one but this is different. The judge claims he's made bigger mistakes than Ema not being able to prevent the killing of LeTouse. Other times in the series, though, we hear that he always gets the right verdict. This isn't so much a contradiction, but just what did he do then?
Anyway, another 4-3 one but this is different. The judge claims he's made bigger mistakes than Ema not being able to prevent the killing of LeTouse. Other times in the series, though, we hear that he always gets the right verdict. This isn't so much a contradiction, but just what did he do then?
Knowing the Judge, he's probably thinking of something not very terrible at all.
Quote:
...The cause of death was blood loss, which means he'd been bleeding for a long time before he died (and he was...)
Yet, when Apollo and Ema hear the "gunshots" which was actually the firecracker, Letouse died just two minutes later (It didn't seem like Apollo was talking to him for long)...
Yet, when Apollo and Ema hear the "gunshots" which was actually the firecracker, Letouse died just two minutes later (It didn't seem like Apollo was talking to him for long)...
It is possible to bleed out in that short of a time, if LeTouse had been struck in a major vein or internal organ. Obviously he wasn't, so a coronor should have known better.
If Ema didn't properly explain to whoever did the autopsy the conditions under which LeTouse was found, it might have been overlooked.AKA the cops on AJ are still dumb!
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Croik wrote:
Quote:
...The cause of death was blood loss, which means he'd been bleeding for a long time before he died (and he was...)
Yet, when Apollo and Ema hear the "gunshots" which was actually the firecracker, Letouse died just two minutes later (It didn't seem like Apollo was talking to him for long)...
Yet, when Apollo and Ema hear the "gunshots" which was actually the firecracker, Letouse died just two minutes later (It didn't seem like Apollo was talking to him for long)...
It is possible to bleed out in that short of a time, if LeTouse had been struck in a major vein or internal organ. Obviously he wasn't, so a coronor should have known better.
If Ema didn't properly explain to whoever did the autopsy the conditions under which LeTouse was found, it might have been overlooked.They probably just assumed that with a 45-caliber revolver it would be hard to fire sanely at LeTouse and not hit a major artery or, as Croik stated, a major vein or interal organ.
Croik wrote:
AKA the cops on AJ are still dumb!
Seconded.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I also think they're blown out of proportion. From what I've seen on the PW contradictions thread, 3-5 is worse. 4-3 is my favorite case!
Anyway, *sigh* here's a pair of 4-3 contradictions which I call "The Magical Switch and the Deaf Rock Star".
The switch was on stage since Machi pressed it, right? And Daryan pressed it to create an alibi for himself. He would have been on stage, playing Guilty Love with the rest of the band. He would need a free hand to press it, right? No matter how many times I listen to Guilty Love I can't hear a spot where he could press it and go unnoticed (but I haven't been really listening that much, so I could be wrong) and Klavier only noticed the missed cue that the kickback from the revolver was responsible for! Also, wouldn't Lamiroir's guitar have caught fire again the second time the switch was pressed?
EDIT: And here's a 4-4 contradiction. In the MASON system, when Phoenix is talking to Trucy she never mentions the Wonder Bar. But Phoenix tells Meekins that she uses her Mr. Hat trick frequently... at the Wonder Bar. I have the quote onscreen.
Phoenix: Have you been to the Wonder Bar?
Meekins is in his fist-in-hand sprite and one of the locks are broken if you want to test my credibility on the quote.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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@4-4: Right. Because I'm sure the only time Phoenix and Trucy ever talked at all about anything was during those 15 minutes in Phoenix's office, especially since he was about to adopt her.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
@4-3: They could have different switches for different igniters >_> Also, we get to hear about... 20 seconds of Guilty Love. There could be a part in the actual, full version where he could do it. Also, Apollo argued that Daryan missed his cue because of the revolver kickback, but this was never proven; Daryan denied it at the time, and they never went back to it. Perhaps that missed cue was actually pressing the switch...
Now that I listen to the full version, it doesn't have Daryan's guitar at all. It's likely that the Gavinners' version has a gap where he could discreetly press the switch.
But your second theory is ludicrous. It was a muddle, not a huge gap in Daryan's playing. It would have been impossible to press the switch with the song like that.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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GigaHand wrote:
The switch was on stage since Machi pressed it, right? And Daryan pressed it to create an alibi for himself. He would have been on stage, playing Guilty Love with the rest of the band. He would need a free hand to press it, right? No matter how many times I listen to Guilty Love I can't hear a spot where he could press it and go unnoticed (but I haven't been really listening that much, so I could be wrong) and Klavier only noticed the missed cue that the kickback from the revolver was responsible for!
Maybe he didn't press it with his hand, if you know what I mean.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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GigaHand wrote:
But your second theory is ludicrous. It was a muddle, not a huge gap in Daryan's playing. It would have been impossible to press the switch with the song like that.
Didn't Daryan say it was impossible for Machi to play even the simplified version of The Guitar's Serenade with one hand?
(btw, I think it's pretty ridiculous too, but playing devil's advocate is fun :3)
Either way, I still have my first theory :P
Oh yeah, also, it is possible that Machi pressed the switch both times.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Bad Player wrote:
GigaHand wrote:
But your second theory is ludicrous. It was a muddle, not a huge gap in Daryan's playing. It would have been impossible to press the switch with the song like that.
Didn't Daryan say it was impossible for Machi to play even the simplified version of The Guitar's Serenade with one hand?
Pianos =/= Guitars. It's possible to play any note on a piano with one hand, but if simultaneous (or close to it) notes are too far apart it is impossible. And you can only play very few notes with one hand on a guitar.
Bad Player wrote:
(btw, I think it's pretty ridiculous too, but playing devil's advocate is fun :3)
Seconded.
Bad Player wrote:
Oh yeah, also, it is possible that Machi pressed the switch both times.
That... is actually very plausible! Daryan could have told Machi to press the switch again once the third set started, and Machi, being his accomplice in the smuggling, probably wouldn't have questioned it. There's no way that he would have known of the trap Daryan set for him unless A) he was told, or B) he looked under the sofa. Both of which sound unlikely.
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: 4-1 spoilers
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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GigaHand wrote:
Yes.
Oh. Don't mind me, I'm just a noob.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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The Jurist System.... how did this get through? Only phoenix planned and knew about this, and the law would know about how he was disbarred as a defense attorney, therefore giving a bias against prosecutors and an unfair disadvantage to them (assuming the higher ups are stupid, which most people such to agree with).
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Kits U. wrote:
This just bugs me a little, but I think it's best to state it here (can someone tell me if this needs to go on a another thread or on it's own?)
The Jurist System.... how did this get through? Only phoenix planned and knew about this, and the law would know about how he was disbarred as a defense attorney, therefore giving a bias against prosecutors and an unfair disadvantage to them (assuming the higher ups are stupid, which most people such to agree with).
The Jurist System.... how did this get through? Only phoenix planned and knew about this, and the law would know about how he was disbarred as a defense attorney, therefore giving a bias against prosecutors and an unfair disadvantage to them (assuming the higher ups are stupid, which most people such to agree with).
The Jurist System, and especially how Phoenix was allowed anywhere near it, may remain a mystery for the ages. There's the theory that Edgeworth pulled strings, but other than that all we can assume is that the higher ups of PW world law are frothing-at-the-mouth idiots (confirmed in GS3-5, I would say, but Edgeworth's legal hoop-jumping).
Though, you could always consider the possibility that whoever assigned Phoenix was corrupt himself. I'm sure there are plenty of high-ranking law-breakers who would prefer a system where justice is on the side of the accused as opposed to the prosecution.
Either way all we can do is speculate. But I'm hesitant to call it a "contradiction" because we've seen how shoddy their law system is, so...iti's almost internally consistent, lol.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Contradictions
#1. Why did Magnifi write "or it may go on... that depends on his hand" in his diary when he didn't plan on continuing it at all?*
#2. One of either Zak or Valant "killed" Thalassa. How can one blackmail someone with this? You can't get them arrested, I know that much. And most every big magician has a trick that puts themself (or in this case, someone else) in mortal danger, so I doubt the troupe would have disbanded.
#3 (The big one!) The entry wound in Magnifi's head was the forehead. No one commiting suicide would aim there with a handgun!
Explanations (They only explain them when put together)
#1. Magnifi had proof on which of his disciples shot Thalassa.
#2. Valant shot Thalassa.
#3.
Spoiler: DUN DUN DUUUUUNNN!!!
*EDIT: I just realized that this isn't a contradiction. It did indeed depend on his hand. If Zak shot shot him, the diary would have continued with the incomplete rights paper. But no shots were fired (into a human head, at least), so it ended there. Regardless, the explanations make sense.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Why is it called the "Jurist" System? A "jurist" is an expert in the law. "Jurors" (the correct term lol) are not supposed to be experts in the law!
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Spoiler: 4-3
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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BiohazardKat wrote:
This one has been bugging me for a while...
Spoiler: 4-3
People strut around like this is a contradiction, and that annoys me because it's explained by several ingame quotes.
Because two bullets were fired, it couldn't have been an accident. SOMEONE did it. It coudn't have been anyone but Machi (assuming the gunshots were real). It was IMPOSSIBLE for anyone else to have done it.
"The cops in AA are dumb" doesn't wash here, because Ema (as well as the Gavinners) was there, so calling the cops would be a waste of time. Ema isn't an idiot. Ema is also the one who said that it would probably dislocate your shoulder, and that the shooter was used to shooting. Then the Judge went on to say that because the murder weapon was that freaking huge gun that could dislocate your shoulder, they were assuming the killer was adept in its use.
And to drive it home, appearances can be deceiving and just because Machi looks puny doesn't necessarily mean he is. I hear pianists need strong hands.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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I don't mean to sound like a gun nut. (I'm British, for crying out loud)
But that's a really basic bullet used in possibly the most basic and probably most widespread magazine fed handgun in the world.
I think the writers or translators were thinking of .44 magnum ammo and mistakenly presumed .45 would be better.
Spoiler: Case 3
On the subject of guns
Spoiler: Case 2
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Vagrant wrote:
On the subject of guns
Spoiler: Case 2
EDIT: It was raining at the time of the crime.
Also, here's an inconsistency between 4-2 and 4-3.
In 4-2, I believe Trucy said she did a lot of paid stage shows. But in 4-3, she implies her income is a crappy allowance. Where does the money from the stage shows go?
Last edited by GigaHand on Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Vagrant wrote:
I don't mean to sound like a gun nut. (I'm British, for crying out loud)
I hate to say it, but I wonder if the whole "this is a MASIVE GUN that even a TRAINED COP COULDN'T HANDLE" is a product of it being written in Japan. Guns are not nearly so prevalent there as overseas so maybe they just assumed that a big guy like LeTouse would use a big gun and exaggerated its effects. Just speculation.
Ironically, if they had left well enough alone, no one would have assumed there should be a kickback injury, and there'd be no contradiction.
Re: GS4 Contradictions (Spoilers, almost every case)
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Croik wrote:
Vagrant wrote:
I don't mean to sound like a gun nut. (I'm British, for crying out loud)
I hate to say it, but I wonder if the whole "this is a MASIVE GUN that even a TRAINED COP COULDN'T HANDLE" is a product of it being written in Japan. Guns are not nearly so prevalent there as overseas so maybe they just assumed that a big guy like LeTouse would use a big gun and exaggerated its effects. Just speculation.
Ironically, if they had left well enough alone, no one would have assumed there should be a kickback injury, and there'd be no contradiction.
Well, they wanted it to be some gigantic uber-powerful gun. I know absolutey nothing about guns (except that they shoot bullets... and have rifling marks (thanks 1-4! :D)) but I think what's important is that they wanted the gun to be powerful and have a high kickback, not if they named it a gun that is actually like that IRL. (I'd think it would be more of a "cough up" than "contradiction.")
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