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This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*
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Author:  lalalei2001 [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

This game makes me feel sad. I've only gotten to case 3, but I feel like there's some pretty big mysteries in here. All connected with Phoenix and the past.

I...just...It hurts to see a character you've grown to love and connect with be so distant! And I feel like even if we resolve what happened, things won't be the same. Like things are changed forever.

Anyone else get these melancholy vibes?

Author:  Mia_Fey [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Some I suppose, but it makes the ending all the sweeter.

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Not quite in the same way...I feel bad that the mysteries happened when "I" couldn't have helped. Ya know?

Author:  lalalei2001 [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Yeah, I feel bad about that too.
Spoiler:
Time travel-like simulation
= one big headache.

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Might want to edit that, just in case.

Spoiler:
Yeah, but I liked it at the same time. Felt like he was talking to me, not Apollo.

Author:  lalalei2001 [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Edited :) Blasted equals sign. :-p

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

I'm with ya there. I don't understand all this fancy stuff with equal signs and such. :yogi:
Boy do I feel old saying that...

I'll say this: Changes are tough, to be sure, but change isn't always bad.

I've beaten it, so I won't say anymore.

Author:  Writer Awakened [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
What I want to know is why Edgeworth had about a hundred different accusations of "forged evidence" against him and doesn't get disbarred, and yet when Phoenix presents a torn page from a diary, BOOM! Owned. Not to mention the fact that he didn't even know it was a forgery. The fact that Phoenix pretty much gives up on fighting his way back in...I guess "disappointment" would be the right word. It doesn't make sense- and where's Maya to knock some sense into him? XD I mean, Maya, Pearl, Trucy, and Nick; You can't say that isn't one [ :karate: ]tizzzotally fly family, know what I'm sayin'? That's what's up. Straight up G.[/ :karate: ]

I mean, heck, Phoenix's fate is a great excuse to get Apollo in as the real main character...except for the fact that Phoenix pretty much runs the whole show anyway. XD But yeah, seeing Phoenix act like a flake for the majority of the game is disappointing.

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Writer Awakened wrote:
Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
What I want to know is why Edgeworth had about a hundred different accusations of "forged evidence" against him and doesn't get disbarred, and yet when Phoenix presents a torn page from a diary, BOOM! Owned. Not to mention the fact that he didn't even know it was a forgery. The fact that Phoenix pretty much gives up on fighting his way back in...I guess "disappointment" would be the right word. It doesn't make sense- and where's Maya to knock some sense into him? XD I mean, Maya, Pearl, Trucy, and Nick; You can't say that isn't one [ :karate: ]tizzzotally fly family, know what I'm sayin'? That's what's up. Straight up G.[/ :karate: ]

I mean, heck, Phoenix's fate is a great excuse to get Apollo in as the real main character...except for the fact that Phoenix pretty much runs the whole show anyway. XD But yeah, seeing Phoenix act like a flake for the majority of the game is disappointing.


Spoiler:
Agreed. Pissed me off to no end.

Author:  Ayasato-chan [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

That's my opinion as well. But you can't blme him...


(Even if it was sucky)


Question:

Spoiler: PW FINAL CASE
Did anyone feel nostalgic when the original music and cornerned was playing?

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Syke y Ayasato wrote:

Question:

Spoiler: PW FINAL CASE
Did anyone feel nostalgic when the original music and cornerned was playing?


Answer:

Spoiler:
Yes! I almost wanted to cry... :larry: I like the new music, but the old ones brought back good memories.

Author:  Ayasato-chan [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Spoiler: RE:ANSWER
OF COURSE, PW music, especially Pursuit ~ Cornered, is pure ownage


But that aside, I'm definately playing this again, To enjoy it to the last word.

Author:  Mia_Fey [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Writer Awakened wrote:
Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
What I want to know is why Edgeworth had about a hundred different accusations of "forged evidence" against him and doesn't get disbarred, and yet when Phoenix presents a torn page from a diary, BOOM! Owned. Not to mention the fact that he didn't even know it was a forgery. The fact that Phoenix pretty much gives up on fighting his way back in...I guess "disappointment" would be the right word. It doesn't make sense- and where's Maya to knock some sense into him? XD I mean, Maya, Pearl, Trucy, and Nick; You can't say that isn't one [ :karate: ]tizzzotally fly family, know what I'm sayin'? That's what's up. Straight up G.[/ :karate: ]

I mean, heck, Phoenix's fate is a great excuse to get Apollo in as the real main character...except for the fact that Phoenix pretty much runs the whole show anyway. XD But yeah, seeing Phoenix act like a flake for the majority of the game is disappointing.

You mean beyond the fact that the PW/AJ world is biased against defense attorneys?
Spoiler: 1-5, 4-4
As far as we know, no one ever proved Edgeworth forged anything and rumors only go so far. In 1-5, Edgeworth discovers he did in fact use forged evidence, but Lana claims responsibility and insists that Edgeworth was not involved in the process of forging. He might have gotten a slap on the wrist, but he really can't be held responsible for presenting evidence that he didn't know was fake. Phoenix is different in that while he didn't know the evidence was fake, he had no way of proving this. Phoenix was caught in court with the fake evidence and Klavier even had a witness ready to testify to this fact. As Klavier asks Apollo seven years later, who would order a forgery but the attorney who presented it? We know the truth, but they didn't. There was no one to claim responsibility for the forging in this case (Kristoph went through a lot of effort to set Phoenix up and certainly wasn't about to confess). Phoenix simply had no idea where the evidence had come from (other than that he got it from Trucy which isn't a great excuse in court) so he couldn't show that he had done nothing wrong and then he ends up claiming responsibility for the evidence in an effort to protect Zak from a guilty sentence.

Author:  Writer Awakened [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Mia_Fey wrote:
Spoiler: 1-5, 4-4
As far as we know, no one ever proved Edgeworth forged anything and rumors only go so far. In 1-5, Edgeworth discovers he did in fact use forged evidence, but Lana claims responsibility and insists that Edgeworth was not involved in the process of forging. He might have gotten a slap on the wrist, but he really can't be held responsible for presenting evidence that he didn't know was fake. Phoenix is different in that while he didn't know the evidence was fake, he had no way of proving this. Phoenix was caught in court with the fake evidence and Klavier even had a witness ready to testify to this fact. As Klavier asks Apollo seven years later, who would order a forgery but the attorney who presented it? We know the truth, but they didn't. There was no one to claim responsibility for the forging in this case (Kristoph went through a lot of effort to set Phoenix up and certainly wasn't about to confess). Phoenix simply had no idea where the evidence had come from (other than that he got it from Trucy which isn't a great excuse in court) so he couldn't show that he had done nothing wrong and then he ends up claiming responsibility for the evidence in an effort to protect Zak from a guilty sentence.


That's a good point. Still,

Spoiler: 4-4, 3-5
The fact that Phoenix really didn't defend himself (aside from waiting for the bar's decision) against the accusations, when he built his reputation after several years as a defense attorney, really ticked me off. I guess it is consistent with his character to get pushed around so easily (for example, when Godot accuses Phoenix of 'doing nothing to stop Mia's death', Phoenix is surprisingly meek. Godot says it three times and it isn't until the third that Phoenix does anything resembling "standing up for himself"). It's a bit disappointing, is all.


And yes, the defense attorneys do get the short end of the stick, it would seem. :P

Author:  KyteZisa [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

:nick-sweat: (Nobody loves me...)

I forget which case that's in...

Author:  Mia_Fey [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Writer Awakened wrote:
That's a good point. Still,

Spoiler: 4-4, 3-5
The fact that Phoenix really didn't defend himself (aside from waiting for the bar's decision) against the accusations, when he built his reputation after several years as a defense attorney, really ticked me off. I guess it is consistent with his character to get pushed around so easily (for example, when Godot accuses Phoenix of 'doing nothing to stop Mia's death', Phoenix is surprisingly meek. Godot says it three times and it isn't until the third that Phoenix does anything resembling "standing up for himself"). It's a bit disappointing, is all.

We don't know that he didn't really.


And yes, the defense attorneys do get the short end of the stick, it would seem. :P

Spoiler: 4-4
We don't know that he didn't try to defend himself. He does protest immediately afterward, but gives up when he realizes that Zak is about to receive a guilty verdict because of this. He sacrifices himself for his client (and his client's daughter) which I think is very in character for Phoenix. The game kind of skips that whole section just after that with a short explanation for plot purposes which just tells us that he was called into a meeting with the bar association and was stripped of his badge. Again, he had confessed in court to the forging. What more could he have done?

I agree with that last statement whole-heartedly. It's really not fair, is it?

Author:  Mikenno [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Writer Awakened wrote:
Spoiler: 4-1, 4-4
The fact that Phoenix pretty much gives up on fighting his way back in...I guess "disappointment" would be the right word.
...
I mean, heck, Phoenix's fate is a great excuse to get Apollo in as the real main character...except for the fact that Phoenix pretty much runs the whole show anyway. XD But yeah, seeing Phoenix act like a flake for the majority of the game is disappointing.


Spoiler:
So Phoenix became an attorney for a number of reasons.
The primary reason was to defend those that needed the defense, just like he did as a child. (We know the whole story.) So I agree with another response that it was VERY in-character for Phoenix to take the hit to save his client, as well as thinking of his daughter's future, even if it isn't necessarilly noticeable within the scene and only after he's lost his license.
Also, Edgeworth was a big part of his reasoning for being an attorney, but we know he already fulfilled that duty to his friend. The rest is history.

So all things considered - Phoenix sacrificing all for his client being the number one reason - it makes a lot of sense that he didn't put up a huge fight. He fulfilled a lot of his desires, but don't forget:

He fessed up to himself that he knew he made a very careless mistake, and he should've been wiser about just taking and using that evidence. It's also possible he could've been punishing himself for taking such a huge risk and putting his client's life in danger. It goes against everything Nick believes in. (I also believe this to be a HUGE part of why he stood calm, thus attracting Drew's attention while also tying it into the original belief.)

Author:  Komachi [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

KyteZisa wrote:
Syke y Ayasato wrote:

Question:

Spoiler: PW FINAL CASE
Did anyone feel nostalgic when the original music and cornerned was playing?


Answer:

Spoiler:
Yes! I almost wanted to cry... :larry: I like the new music, but the old ones brought back good memories.



Spoiler: 4-4
I cried...every time when I was playing that part. It's just like...emotion is something out of my control, I guess.


And the second time I played the last trail seven years ago, it made me feel like it was ME who pushed Nick into the hell, but still I had to present that note page. Damn.

Author:  Regy Rusty [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Spoiler: 4-4
That part where you have to present the diary page was one of the most upsetting and nerve-wracking experiences I've had in these games. I did not want to present that page! I knew it had to be the forged evidence and I knew what would happen once I did. I just wanted to get Zack a guilty verdict so he could just escape and then everything would have been fine. But the game doesn't let you do that. I literally cried tears of frustration when I forced myself to present it. Man... so sad to have to be the cause of a hero's downfall.

Author:  Allan's Aokage [ Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Regy Rusty wrote:
Spoiler: 4-4
That part where you have to present the diary page was one of the most upsetting and nerve-wracking experiences I've had in these games. I did not want to present that page! I knew it had to be the forged evidence and I knew what would happen once I did. I just wanted to get Zack a guilty verdict so he could just escape and then everything would have been fine. But the game doesn't let you do that. I literally cried tears of frustration when I forced myself to present it. Man... so sad to have to be the cause of a hero's downfall.

*shakes head* You evil, evil person.

Author:  lalalei2001 [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Now I'm on Case 3. I still feel sad. Part of me doesn't want to play Case 4 cause of everything that happened 7 years ago. Even though there's no getting around it cause it already happened, I still feel really bad about Phoenix's disbarrment.

Author:  Allan's Aokage [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

lalalei2001 wrote:
Now I'm on Case 3. I still feel sad. Part of me doesn't want to play Case 4 cause of everything that happened 7 years ago. Even though there's no getting around it cause it already happened, I still feel really bad about Phoenix's disbarrment.

When you do get to 4, you'll be feeling worse.

Author:  lalalei2001 [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

I'm on the point of Case 4 that I've been dreading.
Spoiler: Case 4 spoilers
April 19th, 10:00 AM. Phoenix Wright's Final Trial.

*starts bawling* It even has the old music and graphics!

Author:  bibliomaniac [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

Spoiler:
Yeah, no kidding. I cried for a couple of minutes before I made myself present the forged evidence. I mean, I knew I had to, and I knew it already had happened, but really the only thing that could make me do it in the end was the thought that many other people over the world could be doing it right now and nothing could save Phoenix anyways. :yuusaku: It was an odd experience. Phoenix Wright really gets you involved if you let it...whenever you play, you feel attached to the characters, like they're your best friends. At least that's how it went for me. That's why I can't wait until the US edition of the 5th one (they did announce it, right? At least, the Japanese version). I still have to do the 2nd, actually. But I won't get that for a while and hopefully I can figure out another diversion until they say something about the new one. I do hope they bring back, or at least give an update on Maya, Pearls and Gumshoe. That'd be awesome.


Edit: I think I cried when I figured out they had gotten rid of Phoenix's spiky hair too :phoenix: That's partially what confuses me most. How on earth did he fit his hair in that beanie? It's like...stopping the flow of a waterfall. It sounds near impossible.

Author:  javad [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This game makes me feel sad. *SPOILERS*

yes i felt sad because phoenix lost his badge. : punching the wall:

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