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Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay
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Author:  Kusanagi [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

So, I have a few opinions on the new game, after playing all of the other ones leading up to it again, and finally blowing through Apollo Justice.

Apollo Justice, on it's own, as a great game. But put into the franchise of Phoenix Wright, especially with what we've come to expect after the first three games which were progressively better, I have to say it is a tad dissapointing.

I have several reasons why I think this is the case, the first has to do with gameplay. I'll post more when I have the time about the stories and personalities, but until then, just going from the gameplay aspect which doesn't really include any spoilers but I'll hide them anyway.

Spoiler:
The gameplay itself felt like a step backwards, and that's ALOT to say regarding what is essentially a point and click visual novel. While the new Minuku system was a nice addition, too many other elements were taken out.

1) The life bar: I enjoyed the life bar in JFA and T&T. Even if you messed up in court, it was easy to refill during investigations. Having it refill at hte beginning of each trial took away from it, especially with the investigations, and gave less of that wonderful desparation feeling that you get when you know the trial is on the line.

2) The minuku (percieve) system: I think this was a nice new addition to the series and has alot of potential as a gameplay element, if they make some changes. I can see the Minuku system being the replacement for the psyche lock system, however, without it replacing it in the investigations, all you're really doing is using the psyche lock system on the witness stand in combination with evidence and pressing testimony. It was a nice new feature for the courtroom, but it took far too much out of the investigation phases (and lets face it, the only reason you play through the investigations is to get back in the courtroom and nail the guilty SOB to the wall). The investigations felt like they were in the first game, and that's not a good thing.

3) Lack of profiles as evidence: This was a HUGE factor as far as gameplay went. In the second and third games, presenting profiles were a major improvement, either on the witness stand or during investigations. It also provided an extra element of risk ("Who or what was the cause of this?") when presented with a question where the answer could go either way.

4) In 1-5, you had to pick apart the video several times and point out contradictions in it. When the video for 4-3 was shown, I was watching it carefully, even from the start, because I just KNEW I would have to point things out in it later. The brooch, and when the guitar flashes and starts to burn before igniting completely. I was so ready to present that in the trial, and then when the game does all the work for you...huh? What? The only reason you really have the video is just to watch it and not point out errors with it? They did it in 1-5, there's no reason they couldn't have done it in 4-3.

5) Mason system: Good concept, but DAMN was it aggrivating. Maybe because it was an investigation that wasn't presented the same way that the previous 17 cases were and we're all used to that.

6) Jurist system - you get all the way to the end of the game and BAM! You play the role of a juror who makes the decision? So basically, all that work in the entire case leading up to the climactic moment and "you" as Apollo, or "you" even as Phoenix have nothing to do with it? At least in the end of JFA YOU were the one making the decision. This can be improved quite a bit - I would like to see the system improved, and have a few ideas on how it can be.

Overall, gameplay was a huge dissapointment. All the features from the remake of AA, the improvements in JFA, and not changing anything gameplaywise in T&T because the gameplay was solid and really didn't NEED anything else - In a game as relatively simple from the programming end as the Ace Attorney series is, there's absolutely no excuse as to why such simple and solid gameplay elements like the Psycelock system, video analysis, and profiles needed to be scrapped when the only additional features were the new 3D crime scenes and Minuku system.

Author:  Holy Hell [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

You know, the gameplay elements taken away didn't really... ruin the game itself or anything. They were all either super minor or essentially for show. I didn't even think about most of them beyond ten minutes in.

And on the subject of putting Apollo Justice alongside the Phoenix Wright games, I honestly feel as if- in terms of the cases- it was the best entry in the series.

Author:  Dr. Miles [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

Kusanagi wrote:
Apollo Justice, on it's own, as a great game. But put into the franchise of Phoenix Wright, especially with what we've come to expect after the first three games which were progressively better, I have to say it is a tad dissapointing.


I agree to some extent with a lot of what you pointed out. The problem was not that they 'didn't do it better', which is why I don't feel guilty at all for feeling that AJ was a 'step back,' it was that they apparently tried to fix what wasn't broken, and as you said, certain things were changed or removed. That is an avoidable 'step back.'

Anyway, I'll stick my reply in a spoiler too because I'm paranoid...

Spoiler:
1) The lack of a life bar bothered me from the start. When I realized I had a full one again after I felt I had done nothing to deserve it, I was disappointed...

2) I really like the perceive system, but it'd be nice if there was some way to make it not so obvious when you need to use it... Also, I like psyche-locks just as much, so I don't want to see those going anywhere, especially not to be replaced by the perceive system. :P

3) I was really upset by this. I missed presenting everyone's profiles to everyone in JFA and T&T and getting their thoughts.

4) I'm going to go ahead and insert my complaint about the game being a little too easy here, because the video is a good example of this. Conditioned from the last games, I found myself being analytical (that should be excusable, it's the third case after all, even a new player should know how to think by then) and that analysis was usually repaid with... nothing? I just felt like my hand was being held from beginning to nearly the end.

5) The Mason System was a little hectic, but I have no complaints here. I guess I was so happy to see that Phoenix 'hadn't changed' inside (the random OBJECTION! at the figurine debunked any doubts I ever might have had about him) so it didn't bother me much. It was a psycho-lock attack that worked itself out strangely well-- at least, I've seen wonkier investigations. :yuusaku:

6) I don't think the Jurist System is going to exist quite like that in the future... I believe it was a plot prop that worked its magic in blowing me away at the end. I still can't believe it. :eh?:


Apollo Justice was a great game with memorable characters and some great plot twists. I'm not 'bashing' the game so I hope no one replies angrily to this; I loved the game. Quite frankly I'm not that upset about it anyway. In any case, I just wanted to let you know that I shared a few of your thoughts about the gameplay as I played through it. :edgy:

Author:  Lord Seth [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

Am I the only one who liked the fact that the life bar that refills more often? In the previous games, unless you actually played them, it was nigh impossible to not use the save/restart trick to manage to keep going. Refilling it more at least gives me an actual chance to play through the game without "cheating".

Author:  Dr. Miles [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

Lord Seth wrote:
Am I the only one who liked the fact that the life bar that refills more often?


I doubt that you are.

Author:  Entonces [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Yet another "My thoughts" on AJ's story and gameplay

Ah, so you had no complaints about the music. Excellent. :redd:
I never noticed the life bar refilling, so it didn't bother me.

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