That puts Manfred's display to shame. Even the lights flicker when his fist smashes the wall XD

Awesome. I love knowing that deep down everyone who has ever been nice to me is secretly a douchebag. Nice.

I've known people who thought they were hot shit. I've also known people who liked to boast about how awesome they were just to lighten the mood. Klavi falls under the latter category.

(don't even joke about that molestation shit, take that crap to the Gant thread)

Klavier doesn't take things seriously. Let me ask you: If Klavier really only cared about himself and his image, why did he let Apollo and Trucy investigate the crime scene in 4-2 when even EMA wouldn't let them in? Why would he give Apollo and Trucy tickets to their show AND a backstage pass to MEET some of the stars in person? You know, because you seem to think he's grubbing for every dollar he can make. Lastly, why would he let you into his office and so freely tell you things about the case in 4-3?

Now, about his prosecuting: Maybe he could have prolonged the trials a little longer, threw up a more few objections, yes. Agreed. ...And? You guys said AA world /= real world, right? In that case, what is the problem with Klavier standing in court and realizing "Maybe the defendant didn't do it. The facts seem to point in the direction of X suspect"? Once Apollo's theory became more likely than the prosecution's theory (for example, when Daryan's alibi was shot, he became the prime suspect), Klavier backed off and let Apollo talk. Or is it a rule that AA prosecutors HAVE to be persistent pricks who don't quit until they're already six feet under? Apollo's job didn't seem easy to me, even if the game was disappointingly easy...honestly, he needed all the help he could get, and no matter what happened, Trucy would have bailed him out anyway.

Also, if you guys really think Klavier is an asshole, that's fine, cool, but...what would someone have to do to be on your "good" list? Find world peace?!

*Turns off Tails mode. Turns on Federal Prosecutor mode*

Am I to understand that some people would prefer a prosecutor who is totally unethical and purposefully lies and cheats, just to make a "good" character?

Answer yes or no.

At first Apollo isn’t fond of the guy, so what does he do? He gives them these passes so he can show off and brag to them about how great he is! When his guitar catches on fire, he’s incredibly pissed until he realizes that the audience thought it was part of the act

Oh and I don't care if they cheat and lie, it makes the game more of a challenge and more interesting, if every prosecutor in the series was like Klavier then this would be much more boring. Do you think a series where parrots and radios testify would really be interesting in having as real a prosecutor as possible over an interesting one?

Wow, great argument! You sure convinced me to hate Klavier

You can have your opinions, but let's be frank: "Klavier sucks" is not a great argument and will never convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

Am I to understand that some people would prefer a prosecutor who is totally unethical and purposefully lies and cheats, just to make a "good" character?

They could have actually played up the "nice guy" angle. "Hey, so this Apollo guy was mentored by a murderer and his new mentor was disbarred for forging evidence and submitting it to court. I better keep my eye on him." Have Klavier think of APOLLO as suspicious, keep questioning him. That way, you get a more exciting court experience, and as Klavier comes to understand Apollo's true intentions... GASP. Relationship development.

Or have flashback-case Klav a Franziska/Edgey style prosecutor only out to win, but his suspicions that never get answered about that case and Phoenix's behavior make him question that path and become the truth-seeking guy from the game. Hey, development! Or do something else.

*Turns off Tails mode. Turns on Federal Prosecutor mode*

Am I to understand that some people would prefer a prosecutor who is totally unethical and purposefully lies and cheats, just to make a "good" character?

Answer yes or no.

Because Edgeworth never built Phoenix's case for him the way Klavier practically does, because Edgeworth didn't switch over halfway through the trial like Klavier does, and because even so, he was still an exciting, dynamic presence in court--and the two times where he helps Phoenix out the most (1-5 and 2-4) have extenuating circumstances that still make them exciting. Apollo never had to deal with a situation like De Killer or tackle a foe like Damon Gant. And regardless of whose side he was on, Edgeworth always seemed like he was trying his hardest. Klavier never did except for one little part at the very end, and that was too little, too late.

I thought that cooperation really came out well in this game and that it worked nicely.

Seriously, man. People are allowed to like Klavier. There's no real reason to try and argue people out of liking him.

Did I say everyone? No, I never denied there are genuinely nice people in the world, or even the world of the game. Please, don’t try to devalue my opinion about one man by applying the negative aspects I said about him to everyone.

I disagree, however, I think that this maybe simply the impression one gets from him, and therefore subject to multiple interpretations

Remember Matt? Matt Engarde? What was it that sent him over the edge, from an incredibly unhealthy rivalry to murder? It was his “refreshing like a spring breeze “ image that was about to be destroyed. Klavier is in no respects as bad as Matt, but like Matt, his image always came across as being important to him and part of his massive ego. His image was exactly what he was marketed to be “a nice guy, who fights for truth” when the real Klavier only thinks about himself, and making people think as highly of him as he sees himself. At first Apollo isn’t fond of the guy, so what does he do? He gives them these passes so he can show off and brag to them about how great he is! When his guitar catches on fire, he’s incredibly pissed until he realizes that the audience thought it was part of the act, then he’s only minorlly annoyed at the loss of a good guitar, Daryan messes up in a way that I could only tell by watching the moving sound bars (no way I could have heard that) he flips out for ruining his concert! Also, later in 4-3 I believe he had no clue what the cocoon was, and asked Apollo so he wouldn’t look incompetent at the trial the next day.
Also, I never said he was money grubbing, I wouldn’t say he is.

Now, with Phoenix, since we’ve agreed to argue in universe (it seems logical anyway) the truth would come out from both sides fighting their hardest for their two opposing verdicts, and keeping an eye out for the fallacies in each other’s arguments, that was a big realization for Phoenix in 2-4. Now, okay, I’ll concede that Apollo and Klavier can and should have a different kind of relationship, however my problem with Klavier is that he latches on too easily to one “truth”, and when it’s proven wrong he simply switches too easily to another truth, to stay objective and to eliminate all doubts is what our (an AA’s) cultural assumption of the path to truth, Klavier can not live up to that.
When Edgeworth said “A prosecutor’s job is to doubt people.” That wasn’t just him being Edgeworth, that was a statement of one of the principles on what the AA legal system is based, or at least, given all the “believe in you client” stuff, that’s what I’ve been lead to believe, you’re free to disagree.

No, heck, Godot is my favorite prosecutor and he’s a jerk as well, the difference is, one, he’s upfront about it where as Klavier comes across (to me) as a stuck up self-centered jerk, who keeps up this nice guy image because it helps himself boost up his own over bloated ego and gets him what he wants. And Godot has realistic human motivations and people (or maybe just Mia) that he cares about and would do anything for, where as Klavier is like “Oh, my best friend and brother are the real killers? Here Herr Forehead, let me help up convict them.”, not to mention Godot grows over the game last case and comes to realize where he went wrong .

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that "emo/dominatrix/Or a blind guy who has a coffee addiction and is in complete denial" were completely allowed but disliking Klavier and making the same statements about him is VERBOTEN.

I do see a number of people coming into his thread giving him shit for expressing said opinions and essentially telling him he's wrong for not feeling the same way they do, though.

"Klavier is a poorly developed character even though this is only the first game he's in and Capcom was focusing on the backgrounds of Apollo, Phoenix, and Trucy this game and they may be saving most of his big development for next game!"

Please tell me where he says "No one is allowed to disagree with me here!" It's called defending an opinion and we have the right to say what we want. Tell me what gives you the right to tell us not to. I fail to see how any of us are giving the OP "shit" by stating our side of the argument.

What are you saying I said, again?

So it's okay to tell me I can't criticize in a thread praising him, but the opposite is fine?

Uh, okay.

Exactly what I quoted O.o

Objection. I haven't seen any evidence that would suggest that Klavier's actions had an ulterior motive, that he benefited somehow from being nice to Apollo and company. Is there any?

Also, I argue that finding out your brother was a serial killer and a sham defense attorney and confronting him is realistic. Kristoph's actions obviously affected Klavier, as we can see during 4-4.

Please tell me where he says "No one is allowed to disagree with me here!" It's called defending an opinion and we have the right to say what we want. Tell me what gives you the right to tell us not to. I fail to see how any of us are giving the OP "shit" by stating our side of the argument.

HOLD IT!!

Gunshots don't sound that much like firecrackers.

Firecrackes are a sharp crack.

Gunshots are a metallic pop.

It sounds like all the Klavi haters just want a Edgey/Godot hybird.

We've had how many douchebag prosecutors?

Do we need anymore?

One question, I'll raise is, "How exactly is Klavier lacking in development?"

I actually think that Klavier was developed really well in his first game, the only thing that requires building really is his past with Kristoph. But Capcom isn't going to put everything in, because then there's no point in continuing on with the concept of 'character development' if everything is there within the course of one game.