Kristoph. Gant killed subordinate in order to control another subordinate in order to control the law. Kristopoh framed a colleague for career ending crime just to spite the man who didn't hire him and then he tried to kill the person he used as an unwitting pawn in an ironic method befitting of Edgard Allen Poe. Oh, and of course don't forget Von Karma who killed his rival and brainwashed his son against everything his father believed in and really you don't get much more supervillianous than that. So tell me who do you think is the most diabolical?

The comma.

IMO, none-of-the-above.

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Godot.

Seriously, Kristoph is a complete prick, but I have to go with Manfred. It takes a special kind of bastard to murder a guy who got you a penalty in court and then go on to corrupt said guy's son into not only going against everything his father stood for, but believing he was responsible for his father's death...all because von Karma thought God was telling him to do it.

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Last edited by Crimewave on Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Haaa! That's funny!

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I dunno...that evil thing Karma did was quite evil...i mean srsly, when you have to adopt someone and brainwash them just to cover your own ass, that's going low. Like looooooow...

Though yes, the Evil Geisha does rank up there pretty high.

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I would say... probably Gant. Power-hungry, and had no problem killing people without remorse in order to attain that power. Used other people like his puppets, and blackmailed.

At least Kristoph was a decent mentor to Apollo. He may have tried to kill just to keep people quiet, but Gant killed for the same reason.

Manfred at least allowed Edgeworth to live, and took him in, even if he did pretty much brainwash Edgeworth. But he turned out learning for himself in the end.

GANT.

D:

THAT FACE MAKES ME DIE INSIDE.

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Manfred didn't "allow Edgeworth to live" or "take him in" out of any sort of mercy. Letting Gregory's son torment himself for years with the guilt that he "killed" his father to the point that he'd confess to it and accept death himself is much better vengence than just killing Miles outright.

Besides, if he tried that, he might get caught.

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(Angelux): What do you think?
(Anne): The man that looks like you was very evil, but the blackmailed a girl. That's awful.
(Angelux): But Wanted to kill a very young lady. That's more awful
(Anne): But he sucks like evildoer. yeah he want to kill the girl. But he had to send two deadly murderous items to get her silenced. Not evil enought.
(Angelux): I though that kill someone was evil
(Anne): but you have killing everybody and even killed yourself, once.
(Angelux): Yeah. Still. Evil. Shelly What do you think?
Sir, do you want them to get ripped or burned?
(Angelux): I want only to ressolve a discussion here.. Who is more evil.
I think the man who made is thread is more evil. *Kills Mysticgamer* Problem solved.

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Hands down Gant.

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HAHA, when you word it like that, and include the diabetes, I'd say Gant > Kiri.

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Gant had a somwhat better reason for his murders than just "omg my reputation, die you bastards ;_;". I thought Kristoph did a LOT (ruining multiple people's lives and taking others) just for a petty reason.

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You're all wrong! DOLLIE IS MORE EVIL

-shot- :D <3

But seriously, I have to go with Von Karma. Why? Well:

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I think the man who made is thread is more evil. *Kills Mysticgamer* Problem solved.[/quote]

Sorry, but once again you've made an error Shelly.

Mysticgamer

Decisive Witness
Mystic Lawyer

Gender: Female

Hah, seems like it's becoming a common mistake now, Shell.

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I'm using spoiler tags, just to be utterly safe.

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I'm gonna have to say Kristoph based on this logic.

Logic is the best! Science!

Lets go down the list of villains, shall we?

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I can't think of many villians who would rate a 10 on your scale besides Kefka.

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Very interesting thread and discussions. I enjoy reading these!

whiteelephant, bossmuff, acewriter, I'd like to see you guys include her in your analysis!

Nobody is naturally evil by him/herself, even at young age..

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This is rather the like the question I've been asking... Who would be on top. xD

I'm really not sure to tell you the truth, they're alot like two pees in pod.

Can do.

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... I guess I'll add my list now:

: He's pretty damn evil for the reasons already mentioned, but the act that triggered it all wasn't pre-meditated. That takes away some evil points. Bur prior to that, we don't know what kind of dirty tricks he pulled in court to maintain his perfect record, which would probably have led to his ultimate explosion on Gregory Edgeworth. I mean.. 40 years of dirty tricks and secrets and working hard for that long to keep them under wraps? And one man caught him on one slip-up? I'd be pretty pissed too. And then the whole manipulating the enemy's son for 15 years and just waiting to set him up is downright horrible. With his kind of hatred toward Miles, I'm surprised he let him near Franziska at all.

: We know that as a person, he is selfish, but that alone doesn't tell us if he did anything illegal before the blackmailing. Again, the act itself wasn't pre-meditated, but the opportunity was glaring at him in the face. The murder that followed also wasn't pre-meditated. The whole blackmailing thing gets a lot of evil points though. More evil points too for ruining Lana's life and her relationship with Ema... oh and using Edgey as an unknowing accomplice to transport the body and at the same time belittling him in court. (Stop picking on Edgey! D<)

:Morgan is pretty evil if she could convince someone on death row (DAHLIA no less) and her own daughter to do her dirty work for her. It's not really clear whose idea it was, but the point was that she convinced Dahlia to do it. That's quite a few brownie points right there. Plus she was one of the few villains who planned all her murders way in advance (2-2 and 3-5.. she wrote that letter a year prior to the case!). Pretty manipulative person all around. We don't know how long Morgan has hated Misty and her bloodline, but we can only guess it's been a long time, if not most of her life. The only thing that doesn't make her as evil was her motive was to make Pearl the Kurain master. Her life and reputation were over as far as the Fey clan was concerned. The only thing she had left was her daughter and her bloodline. But then.. you have to wonder. If she cared so much for her daughter, why would she include her in her evil plan and soil her hands with murder? If she was really a caring mother with Pearl's best interests in mind, she would've tried to find another way IMO.

: He's pretty evil, but he doesn't really rank it up there with the other villains in the series. Hiring an assassin is pretty cheap, especially for the sake of a rivalry. He just threw a lot of money around and let other people do it. He did murder to cover up for a dark secret also, but the difference here is that he planned it. He wasn't very bright either, since he videotaped DeKiller committing the crime (should've read the fine print in the contract >_>). So conclusion: Big jerk? Yes. Epic evil villain? Not so much.

: Yea, she's probably our youngest villain to date when she started being evil. Even though it wasn't a murder, knowing how to manipulate dumber people and double-crossing them at the age of 13? That's pretty horrible. Again, her murders (other than Godot's and Maya's attempts) weren't pre-meditated, but were also attempts to cover up her secret. Loses SOME evil points for not killing Doug and Phoenix off right away, but the fact that she would readily manipulate anyone without remorse makes up for it. The fact that she also made four attempts to murder (only succeeded in two) is pretty evil as well. That's more than any other villain in this series so far.

: We don't know much about this guy unfortunately. We can guess that he was a crooked attorney to begin with since he planned to use forged evidence for his case with Zak anyways. We can only speculate what other evil deeds he did before then. Planning to kill the people who would help him with his case was also pretty heartless (a little girl no less!). His stalking people for 7 years seems more to me like paranoia. If nothing happened with those people, he wouldn't have taken action. Again, his motive seemed a bit flimsy, which is why I choose to go with my headcanon idea of Dahlia's death throwing him over the edge XD (See Kristoph x Dahlia thread if you want to read the full explanation.. it actually fits pretty well with the timeline).

All that being said, I guess my order would be: > > > > >
Although the top three are very very close to each other in my head.

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Morgan's family was the main branch until right before DL-6. She didn't have any reason to hate Misty and her family before that.

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Aevitas raises a point.

What, exactly, are people's criteria for gauging 'evil'? There are several points that come up consistantly: selfishness, pettiness, manipulation of others, and competence. However, people seem to value these differently.

For example, I treat each quality as having weight in this order, with the first being the most relevant to 'evil' and the last being least: Pettiness, selfishness, manipulation, and lastly, competence. Competance is necessary because it increases their effectiveness and the amount of damage they can commit, but also does not indicate morality in any real way (competant people are not positive or negative in morality by that alone.) Manipulation is the same deal (Phoenix Wright in AJ can be described as 'manipulative' to an extreme degree, but he does so for noble intentions and with concern for others), and at most indicates a lack of a code of ethics. Selfishness is higher because it represents a lack of empathy and a perchant for sociopathic behavior. I rate pettiness as the highest because it represent a failure of foresight and social wisdom, as well as an inability to gauge even one's one necessary priorities. Note, also, that all of these have mostly minor degrees of seperation, as I consider all four crucial to a scary villian (this is excluding the concepts of anti-hero and anti-villain; I'm only thinking in terms of standard villains). Also, I factor in things such as number of people affected/killed, to what degree they are affected, and whether or not they are intentionally affected by such actions. Also, add in premediation, and in the emotional state behind the actions (either completely rational, or emotional, with more emphasis derived from reason).

Also, as I forgot Matt:




By this logic, I rate the named villains in this order, most villianous first and least last: - - - - -

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Evil based on motives, or evil based on actions?

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There are many characters more evil than either of them from what we know, but we really don't know enough information about Kristoph. He could have done a lot more than what we've seen during his career.

I'm thinking we have to consider both motives and actions. At least, that's what I've been doing.



We have as much information about Kristoph as really anyone else; we don't have all the information about Manfred's career, either, but that's not relevant to the game because it's not shown or referenced. The most we know is that he was ruthless and won a lot, but that's about it.

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I'd go with motives... I think it's more evil to plan to kill someone and then do it, than fluke or moment of passion.

Anyway, Gant or Kristoph? This is tough. Gant was an arrogant but surprisingly cooperative antagonist (letting Phoenix investigate the crime scene? Wow) with a cruel streak as long as his arm. Gant struck me as someone whose morals had slowly but certainly been twisted by years of having his nose to the proverbial grindstone. Kristoph, meanwhile, strikes me as having a very ego-centric set of morals that was inherently twisted. He obviously put himself and the law on the same level (as he says at the end of 4-4) and everything else is second. He planned the forger's murder long before Zak dismissed him, ruined Phoenix's career, and murdered Zak just because he was that paranoid. It's a close one, but I would say Kristoph by a very slim margin.

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EVIL!!!

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Here we go again.

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For me, no one can beat von Karma in sheer evil.

I see Kristoph as being more mentally unstable and paranoid than actually evil.

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