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AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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This is just for fun so if you're not following the countdown exactly or at all you're still very welcome to post.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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This case is what made Dahlia who she is. A conniving demon with no heart or soul. Her theme song just adds to the hate. It reflects her facade as a sweet, innocent girl when in reality...
Poor Fawles =(
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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I agree that it was one of the most emotionally jarring cases in the series, too. Mia had trust in Fawles, wanted to prove his innocence, and came so close to doing just that... and then it all went to hell. It just comes to show how manipulative and ruthless Dahlia is, no matter what the circumstances are. I feel that after she overcame the shock she went into following this case, Mia eventually became a much stronger person. Talk about an eyeopener. :<
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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I could feel Mia's nervousness as a n00b, just speaking with Terry ("UGGA!" *biting metal ball on chain* / "I'm sorry!" etc) and presenting her case/cross-examining. And I could feel her despair as Terry decided to take his own life.
Poor Terry. Not much was funny about this case at all. Terry's little lies and freak-outs were a bit amusing, but were quickly canceled out by his sad puppy-dog eyes and tragic story. He got the shaft. Bad.
Loved seeing Edgeworth after a three-case absence. It was interesting seeing him in his initial Bratworth days, though it did not please me to see him as basically a von Karma clone. I find it interesting how the defendant for his first real case committed suicide right there at the end, though. It kind of puts a certain incident in 2-4 in a different light (then again, they probably hadn't even conceived 3-4's story by that point).
And we all know Dahlia's a cold heartless bitch... but this case just added to the depth of her ice cold bitchery.
Diego Armando... it was interesting to see the smug coffee addict Mia knew and eventually loved before he turned into the bitter coffee addict we all know and... sometimes love. That was freaky at the end when he crushed the ceramic mug in his hand and told Mia that the only time a lawyer could cry was when it was all over. When he said that, I wondered how Godot felt in 3-2 hearing Mia pass on his advice to the guy he blamed for Mia's death. (at least, I think he was the first one to say that "the toughest times are when you have to force your biggest smiles" thing... memory's a little fuzzy as I haven't finished just yet)
As was already mentioned... depressing, just depressing. There was no happy ending, and as Mia said, there were no winners.
But haha @ random Gumshoe/Mia
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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I don't have much to say about this one, really.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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The plot was excellent. It was filled with many dark tones which was a really good contrast compared to the general, 'happy' feel of the game when you play as Phoenix. I loved Dahlia and how evil she was in this. Mia was really fun to play as. I wish Phoenix's first case was similar to this as in this one, it forced Mia to mature in more ways than one. Phoenix never really matured until he was disbarred.
Music is brilliant as well as the graphics. The characters were good and it was funny see Udgey's brother presiding over the trial. I really liked the character development with Miles and Mia in particular.
I can't comment anymore as this case was too epic to not have anything negative about it
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Adrian in black wrote:
There was no happy ending, and as Mia said, there were no winners.
I'd say someone won pretty hard.
Real thoughts on the case to follow once I'm caught back up.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
"...Naturally."
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This is one of those dark cases which really stay in your mind after you play it.
Fawles was rather dumb, I thought. Probably just a big lovable giant caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yet he was being manipulated by his dear Dahlia.
Edgeworth/Bratworth (Love the suit) was at top form, showcasing his freshly taught von Karma teachings. This Case may have been the reason for Edgeworth's "choose death" statement to Adrian Andrews. Presumably, von Karma heard about the Trial, and taught Edgeworth to harden himself to seeing suicide. Removing all weaknesses.
Of course Mia is the true star of this. Pretty naive of course.
I can't really say anything more about this either! It's just a brilliant case!
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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As for the tragedy of the case, I believe "Reminiscence ~ Shadow on Dusky Bridge" sums it up pretty well. Poor Fawles...
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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I loved playing as Mia, but i was pissed at Dahila for what she did... killing that poor, poor convict... who wasn't even going to rat her out! Such a shame... though I liked that bottle party... good thinking
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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And of course I've always loved Diego's last lines. I guess I'm just a sucker for his anger and determination, and the way he says the thing which Mia later passes on to Phoenix. Plus, with Fragrance of Dark Coffee playing and the crushing of the mug... brr... again, chilling.
The gameplay of the case isn't great, the contradictions were really confusing the first time I played through it and overall the case itself isn't that interesting. But I'll always appreciate how dark it is.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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I really enjoyed the dark atmosphere of this case, and the unsatisfactory feeling that leads so perfectly into 3-5. I also love how, over the course of this game, you get clues to the backstory in 3-1, the present, and 3-4, but all of the links are hidden until 3-5. It meant that for the most of this case I was trying to connect everything together in my head.
The Judge's little brother was entertaining, and Mia and Bratworth's petty arguing really amused me.
The first time I played this case, I was really sad as I knew that Mia would die and Diego would "die" (I actually thought we would see him "die" at the end of this case: clearly I need to pay more attention to dates). I didn't expect Fawles to die, although as the case went on I started to realize there was no chance of "winning" and that something dreadful was about to happen. But that ending scene... it was so powerful, as well as the beautiful music...
While typing this I realized that this entire case was a dark parallel of 3-1. Diego actually states that he takes Grossberg's place, Terry is obsessed with Dahlia and consumes the necklace (or part of it, anyway), Edgeworth... well, it sort of falls down a bit there XD
Anyway. Can't wait for 3-5~!
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
While typing this I realized that this entire case was a dark parallel of 3-1. Diego actually states that he takes Grossberg's place, Terry is obsessed with Dahlia and consumes the necklace (or part of it, anyway), Edgeworth... well, it sort of falls down a bit there XD
No it doesn't! Edgeworth's lines when Terry has taken the poison are identical to Mia's in 3-1 after Phoenix eats the bottle.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Anyway, still a great case. Starts out kind of gimmicky with Terry, but then gets much more dark and serious... which is good, since it's the prologue to the final case. (And we have 3-1, which is filled with humor, if we want a laugh :3) The first time I played I was kinda off-put by Dahlia being Melissa. (I was like, "wtf? That's Dahlia! And she's not dead! Why can't anyone realize this?!?!") I really like how there was barely any evidence. The first half only had one page (including attorney's badge) and the second half only tacked on one more piece (the diamond) which was only used once. The fact that you have to use each piece several times makes it kinda tricky; when there's a lot of evidence, which is specialized for once one present, it gets pretty easy (like when you need to present the diamond) but when you have only a few pieces, with a lot of information in each, it gets a bit more difficult.
I didn't like Valerie, Dahlia, or Terry. Valerie betrayed Terry, Terry was wayyyy too stupid (and he was a tutor?!!?), and do I really need to say anything about Dahlia? Diego had some good lines (although I think he's better as Godot), Mia was sweet, the Judge's brother was meh, and I liked revisiting Demon!Edgy a little. And for the people who complain that he was just a von Karma clone, maybe that was the point? Von Karma is his mentor, and this was his first trial; he'd be doing everything von Karma's way, since he hasn't had time to come up with his own stuff (like his evil head-tapping! :D).
The only new music in this case was the reminiscence theme, which I didn't think was that spectacular.
Anyway, a great case that is difficult and pretty unique compared to the other cases (in terms of having so little evidence, and the plot) despite the parallels to 3-1. It's also a great case to play through, because you can see all the parallels to 3-1 and the references to 3-5. Of course, tomorrow it only gets better :D
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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As for the characters I liked the new judge, with his Canadian accent (in fact I prefer him to the regular judge) and Diego with his habit of calling Mia "kitten" was great. In fact the only character I don't like is Fawles as he seems a bit to naive and childish for my liking (although I prefer him to a certain other defendant - but I'll get to that later).
If I had to be honest, I'd say that this is the case I hate the most, although it does have a couple of good moments.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Before playing, I assumed that this would be another Samurai case. No really. And even when that became impossible, I was happy to find that this case starts out in court. "There's no way that a 4th Case would be so short, right? I'm probably going to be investigating as Mia later on!" I thought happily to myself. Sadly to say, this was completely false. I know it's supposed to set up for the 5th Case and all, but its length was extremely disappointing... I think I only continued on because I was super curious about why Phoenix was in the hospital...
Terry was an awesome sorta guy, another reason I hate this case is because it has more than just the death of the victim, the defendant dies too! And right before your eyes! Shocking, but depressing.
Melissa Foster. I had heard from somewhere that Dahlia was supposed to have a twin sister. I thought that "Melissa" was supposed to be this twin sister. I got really mad finding out that she was actually Dahlia, and even madder when I realized that Valerie's last name was Hawthorne. I thought that I must've remembered it wrong and that Dahlia was only supposed to have a regular sister.
Looking back, I thought Diego was supposed to be Godot's brother (or maybe even his son). But playing it again, I realized that it's impossible for them to be different people...
So yeah, hated this case. It's just so depressing it left me in a bad mood for quite a while. And that last testimony always gets me, I can never remember what to do there...
In fact the only good thing about this case is Mia's reaction to Edgeworth and vice-versa. I always wondered how that would turn out...
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Terry clearly isn't the brightest bulb, and one might make the case that he's in some way handicapped (though one wonders why that wouldn't work in his defense if it were testable), but he understood that they were cheating Dahlia's father out of money. He understood that she was only a kid. "My teen angel" BLECHHHHH. Sure he didn't deserve to die for that but I can think of a lot of other victims through the series who deserved it even less. Because they weren't committing statutory rape!!
Lil Bratworth is the only part of the case I like tbh <3
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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ANYWAY ON TOPIC~
This was the case from all the series I was most stuck. Come on, same evidence all the time.
It was nice playing a flashback case and all, seeing Diego, Edgeykarma... but 3-5 is still "awesomer".
If I would do a grade: B.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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He is unnaturally obsessed with her, but hell, Dahlia has that effect on practically everyone she meets. I wouldn't blame him too much for helping stage the fake kidnapping: I'm pretty sure Feenie of 3-1 would've done the same. Remember, Dahlia actually believed her father was evil - she wouldn't have any trouble convincing Terry of the same, maybe even saying he was abusive or something of the sort (although that would be stretching it, considering Terry was TUTORING her).
The gap between 20 and 14 is the same as any hero and their assistant...
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
About Terry, I'm pretty sure that his little bit of crazy is due to the solitary confinement - imagine spending 5 years in prison for being falsely accused of murdering the one you're obsessed with! (I refuse to use the word "love" for obvious reasons.) I don't really know about Dahlia's father, but if he went as far to hire a tutor for her he probably wouldn't have picked someone like Terry, which leads me to believe that Terry was a lot more mature as a tutor.
We can't be sure Terry was Dahlia's 'tutor', she could have been lying.
Terry may have been more sane (and less intellectually challenged) before the confinement. Or maybe not. We'll never know. But he must have been pretty stupid to be brainwashed into the bottle story even further than Phoenix, even agreeing to literally drink the poison. (Maybe Dahlia uses her demon butterfly familiars to 'seduce' people or something?)
Practically every victim and person who dies during the action of a case (apart from Mia, but she 'comes back to life') is either a one-dimensional unknown, or has some kind of flaw or mistake which makes us feel less sorry for them in some way. (Dr Grey - ruined the nurse, shot at Maya. Russel Berry - arguably criminal upbringing of Regina. Swallow - gave Dahlia poison. Misty - totally stupid Godot plot, abandoned Maya. Hammer - manslaughter, was going to commit murder etc.)
The other point of 3-4 is that Dahlia then tries to make it repeat in 3-5 ['5 years later after 3-1'] - but the turnabout occurs that time, instead of Terry dying.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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This was also a great case to have developed Mia's character; You really saw how determined she was to get Terry innocent, but then she failed. I can't imagine how she must've felt after that. Well, at least Dahlia was served justice ;)
My grade for this case: B+
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Midnight Jasper wrote:
He is unnaturally obsessed with her, but hell, Dahlia has that effect on practically everyone she meets. I wouldn't blame him too much for helping stage the fake kidnapping: I'm pretty sure Feenie of 3-1 would've done the same. Remember, Dahlia actually believed her father was evil - she wouldn't have any trouble convincing Terry of the same, maybe even saying he was abusive or something of the sort (although that would be stretching it, considering Terry was TUTORING her).
Oh God I hope Feenie was never that dumb.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dahlia told Terry that her dad was abusive, but her sister is a cop. Why would Terry agree to a kidnapping/robbery when he could have reported the guy, or just run away with her without the robbery part? It's just plain crazy! Even if the police knew that Dahlia threw herself from the bridge, wouldn't he still be guilty of felony murder, since her death happened as a part of his kidnapping plot to begin with?
Midnight Jasper wrote:
The gap between 20 and 14 is the same as any hero and their assistant...
I don't support those pairings either. But the difference isn't the problem so much as the ages themselves: 14 years old! With a 20 year old man! That's like an 8th grader with junior in college. Ew!
If they were 24 and 30 it wouldn't be an issue.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
You mean like how Franziska was kind of young (13) to be a prosecutor?
Well, to be fair, Franziska was raised in Germany, where things apparently are more progressive. We don't know if Valerie studied abroad, or if the police academy in LA takes applicants in their mid-teens.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Adrian in black wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
You mean like how Franziska was kind of young (13) to be a prosecutor?
Well, to be fair, Franziska was raised in Germany, where things apparently are more progressive. We don't know if Valerie studied abroad, or if the police academy in LA takes applicants in their mid-teens.
Also, as long as you are intelligent enough to effectively argue for people's convictions while following legal regulations, there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to become a prosecutor. But at 18, most people (especially women (I don't mean to be sexist, but men are typically physically stronger)) probably don't have the physical strength in order to do what police and detectives would need to do, in terms of catching criminals and such.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Bad Player wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
You mean like how Franziska was kind of young (13) to be a prosecutor?
Well, to be fair, Franziska was raised in Germany, where things apparently are more progressive. We don't know if Valerie studied abroad, or if the police academy in LA takes applicants in their mid-teens.
Also, as long as you are intelligent enough to effectively argue for people's convictions while following legal regulations, there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to become a prosecutor. But at 18, most people (especially women (I don't mean to be sexist, but men are typically physically stronger)) probably don't have the physical strength in order to do what police and detectives would need to do, in terms of catching criminals and such.
Especially since it was pretty easy for her to be killed by her younger sister.
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Bad Player wrote:
Also, as long as you are intelligent enough to effectively argue for people's convictions while following legal regulations, there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to become a prosecutor.
I think Franziska is the perfect example of why teenagers shouldn't be prosecutors. She's selfish, immature, and just plain not very good. Defense attorneys in Germany must be complete babies for her to have won any trial, let alone all of them. Either that or German cops are out of this world!
There's just no substitute for experience.
But back on topic, it's not unheard of that Valerie was a detective that young (as far as AA world is concerned) since they imply that Daryan started out around the same age. He and Klavier worked together on some of their first cases, and as we know Klavier had his at 17.
Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Croik wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
Also, as long as you are intelligent enough to effectively argue for people's convictions while following legal regulations, there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to become a prosecutor.
I think Franziska is the perfect example of why teenagers shouldn't be prosecutors. She's selfish, immature, and just plain not very good. Defense attorneys in Germany must be complete babies for her to have won any trial, let alone all of them. Either that or German cops are out of this world!
There's just no substitute for experience.
I agree, but I was just pointing out that a prosecutor needs more mental aptitude, which is possible at that young an age, whereas a detective needs more physical aptitude, which is pretty difficult to get at young ages.
Quote:
But back on topic, it's not unheard of that Valerie was a detective that young (as far as AA world is concerned) since they imply that Daryan started out around the same age. He and Klavier worked together on some of their first cases, and as we know Klavier had his at 17.
Hmm, I never realized that Daryan would also be a detective that young. For some reason that satisfies me xD
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Re: AAI Countdown 3-4: Turnabout Beginnings
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Croik wrote:
But back on topic, it's not unheard of that Valerie was a detective that young (as far as AA world is concerned) since they imply that Daryan started out around the same age. He and Klavier worked together on some of their first cases, and as we know Klavier had his at 17.
Ha. I'd forgotten about Daryan. Well, that certainly answers my question. I guess the police academy in LA (or AceAttorney!LA) does take applicants in their mid-teens, after all!
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