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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:36 am 
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L~A wrote:
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Also, I'm supposed to get my copy on Wednesday. Take that, Wooster!!

Hum.... he's supposed to receive his copy on Thursday... just realised it would be, normally, the same day as me!
But I wouldn't be surprised if he receives it on Wednesday. I've always received my amazon orders one day before the one indicated in the ETA.

And I don't think the game will 'suck'... not as good as people with extremely high expectations did, that's for sure, but I don't think it will suck at all. I mean, when I read some reviews for Another Code: R, and compare them to how much I loved that game... I know I shouldn't worry too much.


You know, you really give me hope now. Yeah, Another Code R did get some poor scores, but it was an amazing title. One of the best and unique titles on the Wii. And they used the Wiimote RIGHT. That's really saying something with all the Wii games that use it poorly, or try to use it as a traditional controller. The Mario games do well as well, but that's Nintendo and this is both their flagship series and console.

EDIT: Getting my game tomorrow. Got a alert from the US Postal Service that it's just arrived in my hometown.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:24 pm 
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It's not merely the poor scores that worry me, but the fact that a lot of these reviewers rank Hotel Dusk and Trace Memory high on their list D:


Oh well. I wasn't expecting to like it quite as much.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:15 pm 
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Destructoid reviews Again
http://www.destructoid.com/review-again-169893.phtml

Alright, my mind is made up. Sorry Cing, but I'm passing on this one.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:50 am 
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ashogo wrote:
Destructoid reviews Again
http://www.destructoid.com/review-again-169893.phtml

Alright, my mind is made up. Sorry Cing, but I'm passing on this one.


Spoiler: Extract
The left-hand screen shows the environment as it looked nineteen years ago, while the right screen shows things as they appear in reality. It's essentially a glorified "spot the difference" game, as Weaver has to investigate the things that look different in each vision, and alter the present so it looks like the past.


Oh wow, and if that's supposedly the game's major attraction...what happened CiNG?

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:06 am 
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OniXera wrote:
ashogo wrote:
Destructoid reviews Again
http://www.destructoid.com/review-again-169893.phtml

Alright, my mind is made up. Sorry Cing, but I'm passing on this one.


Spoiler: Extract
The left-hand screen shows the environment as it looked nineteen years ago, while the right screen shows things as they appear in reality. It's essentially a glorified "spot the difference" game, as Weaver has to investigate the things that look different in each vision, and alter the present so it looks like the past.


Oh wow, and if that's supposedly the game's major attraction...what happened CiNG?


From what I can tell from sniffing around the Japanese Again site, without you know, actually understanding a lick of Japanese, there's a lot promoting Japan's CSI tv show. I don't know enough about Again or Japan's CSI to know if the same cast is used, but I would assume this is a game based upon a syndicated TV series. And we all know how games based on movies and TV shows turn out.

But man, CiNG...


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:18 am 
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Wooster wrote:

From what I can tell from sniffing around the Japanese Again site, without you know, actually understanding a lick of Japanese, there's a lot promoting Japan's CSI tv show. I don't know enough about Again or Japan's CSI to know if the same cast is used, but I would assume this is a game based upon a syndicated TV series. And we all know how games based on movies and TV shows turn out.

But man, CiNG...


Seriously? I'm Googling, but I can't find the Japanese version of CSI. It must be very obscure TV show, or just not very popular.

I don't even know if this game will sell enough to be considered for sale in the UK or Australia. I may not even be able to find it randomly in a store somewhere.

Edit: You should have the game by now Wooster. Well? Is spot the difference fun?

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:39 am 
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The game is currently waiting at my post office, it hasn't gone out for delivery yet, and won't until around noon local time. Except I'm not going to be around at delivery time due to my literature class; so it'll be roughly 24 hours before I'll get my hands on it.

When I have access to my Mac I'll look up the Japanese site, but a quicker lead for you would be to go to the Japanese Again site. Explore a bit and you'll see a link to Japan's CSI; ironically I remember seeing New York as the setting.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:47 am 
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Wooster wrote:
OniXera wrote:
ashogo wrote:
Destructoid reviews Again
http://www.destructoid.com/review-again-169893.phtml

Alright, my mind is made up. Sorry Cing, but I'm passing on this one.


Spoiler: Extract
The left-hand screen shows the environment as it looked nineteen years ago, while the right screen shows things as they appear in reality. It's essentially a glorified "spot the difference" game, as Weaver has to investigate the things that look different in each vision, and alter the present so it looks like the past.


Oh wow, and if that's supposedly the game's major attraction...what happened CiNG?


From what I can tell from sniffing around the Japanese Again site, without you know, actually understanding a lick of Japanese, there's a lot promoting Japan's CSI tv show. I don't know enough about Again or Japan's CSI to know if the same cast is used, but I would assume this is a game based upon a syndicated TV series. And we all know how games based on movies and TV shows turn out.

But man, CiNG...


I know I sound like the sneering cynic right now, but I wasn't exactly thrilled about this game even before anyone had actually played it. The decision to use live actors as models was too great a sin for me to ignore. (Does that sound really stupid to you? What can I say, it really pissed me off...)

Despite what I just said, the story actually sounded intriguing, and the game was by the same people who gifted us with the brilliant Hotel Dusk, but these initial impressions are...bleak. :lana:

Just give us Last Window for God's sake! Then I can live knowing that Cing went out with a bang! :acro:

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:57 am 
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I've gone into a few stores looking for this game and so far haven't had any luck... I went into a Game Stop and the guy was like "Huh? It's called 'Again'? Never heard of it" then he looked it up in his computer an was shocked that it existed... He then proceeded to tell me that there were absolutely NO Game Stop's within a 1100 mile radius with it in stock...

WTH. I know the thread is full of less-than stellar reviews of it, but I'm still deadly interested in it. The unique use of actors in itself interests me, let alone the fact that I like interesting mystery-type novelizations/games. I'm willing to give it a fighting chance, but I need to be able to find a place selling it first. I know most people here probably pre-ordered it, but did anyone else manage to find it in-store? If so, where? My next stop (if I can make it out there) is Play and Trade, but my expectations for finding it there are rather low...

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:59 am 
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I wasn't worried about the art style, at least not until the revision with the white outline that gave it a unique sense of style.

After all, Dusk surprised us with the unique black and white rotoscoping, and before that Trace Memory surprised us with all the crazy uses of the DS; after all that precident, there was nothing that indicated that this game would do anything less revolutionary.


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:09 am 
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Wooster wrote:
I wasn't worried about the art style, at least not until the revision with the white outline that gave it a unique sense of style.

Yeah, this. I really didn't like the art at first, but then they fixed it. But darn you for getting it first! T_T


If the Japanese CSI is really obscure and unpopular, well, that's exactly why they would need a video game to promote it.


*sigh* It's disappointing to get a mediocre game from CiNG, but I suppose we can't expect the level of Hotel Dusk and Trace Memory all the time. Whether it's good or bad, I care more about supporting CiNG to get Last Window. I think I'll be able to enjoy the game, even if I'm going to have to lower my standards to do so, so w/e.




I just really hope we get Last Window... It would be horrible if CiNG went bankrupt and left this for us, but if they gave us Last Window, at least we'd have one final, great game from them.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:10 am 
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shadowofedgeworth wrote:

I know I sound like the sneering cynic right now, but I wasn't exactly thrilled about this game even before anyone had actually played it. The decision to use live actors as models was too great a sin for me to ignore. (Does that sound really stupid to you? What can I say, it really pissed me off...)


I actually thought they were only doing that for the trailers and stuff. Y'know, live action trailer to make it seem cooler?

I hope Nintendo just takes up Last Window and publishes it.

Bad Player wrote:
If the Japanese CSI is really obscure and unpopular, well, that's exactly why they would need a video game to promote it.


It could be obscure and unpopular for another reason. Like, y'know, sucking generally being bad?

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:25 am 
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Nintendo Absolutely has to pick up Last Window. If they don't they'll see so much that-much-more DLing/pirating of it than any other game. And in their eyes, one would think, that would appear to be that much more lost revenue...


At least, this is what I'll tell myself so that I don't loose hope...

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:12 am 
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shadowofedgeworth wrote:
I know I sound like the sneering cynic right now, but I wasn't exactly thrilled about this game even before anyone had actually played it. The decision to use live actors as models was too great a sin for me to ignore. (Does that sound really stupid to you? What can I say, it really pissed me off...)

Despite what I just said, the story actually sounded intriguing, and the game was by the same people who gifted us with the brilliant Hotel Dusk, but these initial impressions are...bleak. :lana:

Just give us Last Window for God's sake! Then I can live knowing that Cing went out with a bang! :acro:


I had my reservations as well--the characters just looked so cheestastic and bland...but I was still hoping for something decent.

Yes, this only increases my desire for Last Window. I want to be able to buy at least one more CiNG game that immerses me like dusk. And I've played bits of the Japanese version of Last Window, so there's no doubt in my mind that it would be a great game in English...handled by proper translators at Nintendo...

This almost makes me want to start one of those horrid internet petitions that never work. :payne:


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Again Get!

I'm going to update this post with my impressions as I play, or at least until someone replies and I have to leave for class.

Anyways, it asks some convenient questions to start, I'm a lefty so I was disoriented holding the game the 'wrong way' after holding it the other in Dusk, fortunately the game fixed that quick,

Title screen music is both spooky and catchy, nice mix.

EDIT A:

Starting the dialog, animations are interesting. The actors have some of the sketchy overlay a la hotel dusk, outlines jitter so it's a cool effect. Unfortunately, when characters speak their mouths don't move, and the character holds at a still frame. Possibly a limitation due to using real actors, since you can't really animate a person's mouth on a loop.

EDIT B:

Murder! In room 315 of Hotel Miranda? Oh CiNG!
Animations may be lame, but it looks like CiNG really tried to make up for it with expressive poses. It's an interesting trade off.

Characters are on 'my' right screen, dialog on my left. With all the panning left and right that's going on on the right screen, I wish CiNG did the Hotel Dusk method and have the talking characters on two different screens.

Sound effects are either stolen from Hotel Dusk, or borrowed/modified from the Another Code/Trace Memory series. Kinda gives a clue what part in Development CiNG had.

EDIT C:

Got to investigation

Music is catchy, pre-rendered movies are surprisingly crisp on the DS. Agents J and K aren't very interesting in the opening. The writer is trying to create an aura of mystery by talking about things the player has no context of. I'm sure on my replay it'll make a ton of sense, but right now it's just blah.

I've come to the conclusion that Agent J makes a big deal about entering the bathroom. Dare I ask what making toast is like with him?

EDIT D:

Just finished the first investigation. It's a tutorial so it dragged a bit, nothing bad or good about that. They did however jump in with the past/present vision gimmick. I'm not sure they should've come in with both guns blazing however. The only thing the past did was show that someone you can't identify was there in the past. And well... considering what you found in the present obviously someone was.

Still too early to judge since I've only put in 10 minutes of play time; but I need to leave for class.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:07 pm 
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I got it, too :P

So right now J is going to Room 315 in Hotel Miranda. It is so lolz-worthy xD

The exaggerated poses are a bit goofy, but I like them. The shadey effect on the sprites is relatively subtle.

If you set the text speed to "fast" everything is fine, but it is a little annoying when it has to scroll whenever it changes characters =\ I also would've rather they did it HD-style, or just had it auto-switch to the other character instead of scrolling.


The music is nice... although I've only heard one song and one sound bite so far :P


EDIT: Okay... I just got the case files. It's pretty visual novel-y. The way talk options are displayed reminds me a lot of HD. You can also view the conversation so far like in HD... but each textbox takes up a page in the history; I think it would've worked a lot better if they did it like they had done in HD. The only other special options is calling ppl's phones. (There is one more option called "Vision" but it's locked, so I can't tell you anything about it.)

The plot so far is interesting, but nothing special. There was a serial killer, there are no clues, now he's back, etc etc. However, there haven't been any more special investigations, so maybe it'll pick up then. The music is still good :)

This sprite style is growing on me. When you first get into vision mode there is a weird little cutscene thing that I didn't really like, but the sprites are fine. Anyway....



Spoiler: My theories. You have been warned if they turn out to be right!
Jonathan Weaver is Jonathan Baker. The carbon monoxide poisoning caused mental damage that erased his memories or something. Jon was 12 yrs old at the time, and it took place 19 years ago, and IIRC J is 31, so... :P


Also, right now I'm assuming that Kate is the murderer. I think it'll be a lot more fun this way. (I think one of the big sticking points for me is that since it took place so long ago, a lot of people can be eliminated just based on age, which makes it a bit easier. Although if there is a different killer in the present, this doesn't apply...)

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:58 pm 
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XD Hugo is such the Butz, except with an IQ above 5;

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:56 pm 
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I haven't had any more scenes with him since his intro, but... he seems like more like a Louie (but w/ more IQ :P) than Larry.



Also, at the beginning of day 2, my theory was confirmed xD It was really obvious, but at least they didn't make us wait too long.


Spoiler: new theory about the killer
It's either Kate or Fred :P

EDIT: Darn, nvm about Fred. I still like thinking it's Kate, tho xD

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:25 am 
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I've just completed the second Eye of Providence investigation. I'm unsure what the reviewers were complaining about. For a game based upon a TV series, the plot's not half bad at all. You get to meet a ton of characters who are more directly involved and related to the cases then in PW; actually, the game's more like the Famicom Detective Club Part 2 game for the SNES I played a while back with Tomato's translation. I don't know yet if the writing will hold up with Famicom Detective Club, but I'm already liking it more, as I can actually follow who's who since all the names are in English, for the most part at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:17 am 
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Wooster, is the "second investigation" the other one in room 315, or one in a different location? I just completed the one in room 315 in day 3. And yeah, it isn't that bad if it actually is based on a TV show. The little cutscene thingies really remind me of a crime drama... I do like all the eyes flashing through. The characters aren't as wacky and outlandish as PW, or even HD, but they do have realistic and distinct personalities, even if they don't immediately scream out at you exactly what they are like.


Anyway, there was a multiple-choice confrontation thing. I don't know if there will be multiple ones, but it was a really easy. (Of course, in HD it was always 2 choices and this one had more, but still...) Oh, and I forgot to mention this, but in investigations there are some extremely-minigames/puzzles.

However, at the end of Day 3, the story (to quote Kristoph :garyuu: ) takes a turn for the interesting. If nothing else, I'm confident that there will at least be a neat story to enjoy.



This is what I'm thinking about the game: It's a lot like a mediocre version of Hotel Dusk. But if you want a neat story, and don't mind lots of dialogue and not too much gameplay, then you should consider this. I don't know how far I'm into the game, and my general opinion might change, but that's my prediction for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:47 am 
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I'm still on day 2, so it would be the second attempt at Room 315 (My gosh I almost wrote 215, XD); I believe I've just finished the Miranda case, and 'wow' what a plot twist. You won't see that revelation in the GS series.

Yeah, the multiple choice thing was super easy, I had the whole thing figured out before the confrontation about Sam. But, I figure this game is meant as an introduction to the genre and can therefore get away with being stupidly easy at the start. My one legitimate complaint is that easy questions aside, the music wasn't as catchy as Dusk's, Trace's, or R's.

I am getting attached to the writing and the character art style. Just has to grow on you a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:48 am 
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It seems like you guys are trying really, really hard to find something positive here.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:06 am 
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OniXera wrote:
It seems like you guys are trying really, really hard to find something positive here.


Guilty as charged; but it's really awkward trying to build an opinion as you're playing with an incomplete view of anything.

Right now, I'd label the

Art, movies, and effects as Fantastic,
Story: Rather typical for the genre, but unique in a few important facets.
Pace: Slow, Fault of the game or only because I just completed 'case 1'? Can't tell.
Characters: Delightfully diverse, but no over the top personalities. Such you'd expect from a TV drama.
Exploration: Very GS like. Select from a menu and you'll go there. But unlike GS, you're not limited to adjacent places.
Investigation: The engine is better then GS, but limiting on when you can investigate. The gimmick isn't bad, think Time Hollow.
Deduction: Only done one, and it was stupidly easy. Will it get more difficult? Gotta get to more deduction/cross examination scenes.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:55 am 
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Wooster wrote:
Investigation: The engine is better then GS, but limiting on when you can investigate. The gimmick isn't bad, think Time Hollow.


Yeah, but to have to compare it to Time Hollow. :sadshoe: I'll admit the whole looking into the past thing in Time Hollow was good, but it was also quite tedious at certain times. Plus, the game was easy to boot.

Are the twists as good as Time Hollow's?

Now if you could use the time pen anywhere...

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:12 am 
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Wooster wrote:
I am getting attached to the writing and the character art style. Just has to grow on you a bit.

So are the impressions about the writing being bland and having no personality not quite true for you? Is there a little bit of color to the characters?


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:16 am 
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Ah ah, looks like Nintendo Power's review (70/100) was right. Looks like a good game, but definitely not outstanding. That's all I need to know, and don't care about the rest. Now, by reading your reviews, I really want to play that game now... I really hope I receive it before the end of the week.
You look like you're enjoying the game, which is very positive in my opinion.

Quote:
My one legitimate complaint is that easy questions aside, the music wasn't as catchy as Dusk's, Trace's, or R's.

Is there the name of the person who made the music in the booklet? I highly doubt it's Satoshi Okubo's work in this game (he'd probably been working on LW), but if it is, then I'm really looking forward to playing that game even more.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:29 am 
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ashogo wrote:
Wooster wrote:
I am getting attached to the writing and the character art style. Just has to grow on you a bit.

So are the impressions about the writing being bland and having no personality not quite true for you? Is there a little bit of color to the characters?


Oh, the first 10 minutes were dreadfully bland, no question about it. After that however, the pace picks up.

As for the Time Hollow Gimmick, Again does it better. You see the past on one screen and the present on the other, so there's none of that dumb time digging. And investigation is in 3D so it'll take you some decent time to figure out what's going on.


As for L~A, Looking at the booklet a few of things are explained. "Developed by CiNG, Written and Produced by Temco." On the other hand, it also says "Scenario: Team CiNG"; so I'm not sure who did what.

Anyways, sound was done by: Naoyuki Yoneda and Tatsuya Fujiwara of Solid Tune Co. Ltd. So yep, that explains the music being a bit below par. It's not bad by any means. But not as catchy as what we're used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:56 am 
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Wooster wrote:
I'm still on day 2, so it would be the second attempt at Room 315 (My gosh I almost wrote 215, XD); I believe I've just finished the Miranda case, and 'wow' what a plot twist. You won't see that revelation in the GS series.

I thought the Miranda case is solved at the end of Day 3 o_O But it is definitely a big plot twist.
Spoiler:
However, I hope they don't keep on doing it. I mean, that was a pretty crazy this time, but if they keep doing it over and over again, it'll just get repetitive, boring, and predictable...


Wooster wrote:
OniXera wrote:
It seems like you guys are trying really, really hard to find something positive here.


Guilty as charged; but it's really awkward trying to build an opinion as you're playing with an incomplete view of anything.

Right now, I'd label the

Art, movies, and effects as Fantastic,
Story: Rather typical for the genre, but unique in a few important facets.
Pace: Slow, Fault of the game or only because I just completed 'case 1'? Can't tell.
Characters: Delightfully diverse, but no over the top personalities. Such you'd expect from a TV drama.
Exploration: Very GS like. Select from a menu and you'll go there. But unlike GS, you're not limited to adjacent places.
Investigation: The engine is better then GS, but limiting on when you can investigate. The gimmick isn't bad, think Time Hollow.
Deduction: Only done one, and it was stupidly easy. Will it get more difficult? Gotta get to more deduction/cross examination scenes.

Yeah, I think I agree with everything here. Also
Spoiler: minor gameplay spoilers
When you need to figure out the order of stuff in investigations, and make the room look like the past, they could come up with some interesting puzzles. I think it would cool if you need to make deductions and stuff to figure out the order things happened in. (I mean, the first time the events are (a) the second guy arrives, (b) both guys are alive, (c) one guy is killed, (d) one guy is dead. HMM, I wonder what order they happened in...


OniXera wrote:
Are the twists as good as Time Hollow's?

Now if you could use the time pen anywhere...

IMO, none of the twists in Time Hollow or PW are better than this first twist in Again. (Plz note that I'm not saying that this twist in Again is better than all the twists in TH and PW.)

As far as I can tell, you cannot do your vision thing everywhere. Maybe you can farther in the game, but I don't think I will be...

ashogo wrote:
Wooster wrote:
I am getting attached to the writing and the character art style. Just has to grow on you a bit.

So are the impressions about the writing being bland and having no personality not quite true for you? Is there a little bit of color to the characters?

Basically. The characters are just tinted, instead of having a whole paint can dumped on their heads.




Spoiler: the killer
I really hope it isn't Danny. (For the Cornell case, I mean.) It would be cliche and predictable... I just don't like the idea of him being the killer =\

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:16 am 
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I'd take it that the reason why the professional critics have given it mediocre to poor scores is because they've probably played the game through already. Maybe it just doesn't live up to the expectations the game sets up early on?

Like if the deductions stay stupidly easy, and things do end up a predictable clean plate, well it will surely explain the scores that's for sure.

Bad Player wrote:
IMO, none of the twists in Time Hollow or PW are better than this first twist in Again. (Plz note that I'm not saying that this twist in Again is better than all the twists in TH and PW.)


Wait a second...so it's better than all of them, but not better than all of them? Which is it? It can't surely be both.

Wooster wrote:
As for the Time Hollow Gimmick, Again does it better. You see the past on one screen and the present on the other, so there's none of that dumb time digging. And investigation is in 3D so it'll take you some decent time to figure out what's going on.

Bad Player wrote:
As far as I can tell, you cannot do your vision thing everywhere. Maybe you can farther in the game, but I don't think I will be...


Seems to be exactly the same as Time Hollow then, there's just more room to look at the past, and there's no way of running out of the ability to look into the past. So, essentially it seems easier than Time Hollow, an incredibly easy game (not that you'd ever run out of looking into the past, if you look around and find that damn cat).

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:32 am 
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OniXera wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
IMO, none of the twists in Time Hollow or PW are better than this first twist in Again. (Plz note that I'm not saying that this twist in Again is better than all the twists in TH and PW.)


Wait a second...so it's better than all of them, but not better than all of them? Which is it? It can't surely be both.

The twists in TH and PW are not better than the one in Again. That is, the one in Again is better than or as good as the twists in TH and PW, IMO.

Quote:
Seems to be exactly the same as Time Hollow then, there's just more room to look at the past, and there's no way of running out of the ability to look into the past. So, essentially it seems easier than Time Hollow, an incredibly easy game (not that you'd ever run out of looking into the past, if you look around and find that damn cat).

No, there is a life bar. I'm not sure how to refill it, though ^^'

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:59 pm 
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To rephrase his rephrase, plot twists aren't near as frequent as in the GS series, but the one twist we have gotten blows the socks off of any one plot twist in the entire series.

And no, compared to Time Digging, Eye of Providence investigation is a lot more involved and complicated. I'd rate it as better then Time Hollow, GS saga; More in tune with 'Little Thief', and just as situational.

As for the paint bucket vs tinting analogy, I would've never worded it like that, but that's an EXCELLENT way to put it.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Ah, I really love reading your 'reviews', Wooster and Bad Player. But you know, I didn't need to want to play the game more than I already do, heh... :p
I'm really intrigued about this plot twist, though I don't want to know exactly when it happens...

Quote:
"Developed by CiNG, Written and Produced by Temco." On the other hand, it also says "Scenario: Team CiNG"

Now, that's one weird statement. Maybe 'writing' involve more than just the scenario? Maybe the characters are not included? (like, Tecmo give them the characters, and 'Team CiNG' had to write a story with them. I really don't understand who did what either...
Especially since 'developed by CiNG' is a pretty vague piece of information...

Quote:
Naoyuki Yoneda and Tatsuya Fujiwara of Solid Tune Co. Ltd


... Ah, not that I expected Satoshi Okubo's to compose the music of this game, but...oh well, never mind.
As long as the music is not horrible...

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:13 pm 
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I'm sensing a lot of vagueness here...so how is the gameplay segment more complicated than Time Hollow's? From what I've heard it's only moving certain objects around in the present to match the past...is there another hook somewhere?


 
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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:28 pm 
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ashogo wrote:
I'm sensing a lot of vagueness here...so how is the gameplay segment more complicated than Time Hollow's? From what I've heard it's only moving certain objects around in the present to match the past...is there another hook somewhere?


There's some puzzle elements to it. You start out at the crime scene, both in the present and the past. You can only interact of course with items in the present. You explore the crime scene(s) in 3D, and you have to look for contradictions between the past and present; As opposed to Time Hollow where based a bit on intuition and dumb luck you browse for the key point.

When the contradiction is spotted your goal is to recreate the crime scene based upon the past. Items may be hidden on the crime scene for you to put back al la puzzle. Or not at all. In that case you have to leave and find the information; Somewhat similar to how you can never break a Psyche-Lock when you first run into it. If you do have to leave, Agents J and K will chat a bit reinforcing what you need to look for incase you forgot. At that point, as good little investigators you do your investigating and interview witnesses. Find your stuff, come back, and tada!

Recreating the crime scene, while I've not gotten as far as BadPlayer, can have puzzles reminiscent of what you had to solve in Dusk and Trace Memory; however, I've come across nothing yet that uses the DS in ways CiNG is notorious for. But, CiNG generally holds that for mid to late in the game, and I'm no where near the mid point.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Basically was Wooster said. We're pretty close to the same place, anyway :P Also, if we're talking about the same plot twist, we are at the same place, b/c I stopped right after it. But you said you did 2 days, and I did 3... weird. Maybe it takes place a different number of days if you do different things? o.O


Anyway, it's a bit more complex than Time Hollow b/c you are in a whole 3D room, instead of just a 2D background w/ panning. You can also do a bit more observation and interaction with the objects in Time Hollow. Also, each time you find a difference you get a little movie of the past, and once you've gotten all the differences there is one more last little minigame with it. Anyway, the minigame/puzzles are really really simple so far. For example, in the past a lamp is on the floor, so in the present you have to drag the lamp to the edge of the table so it falls onto the floor.



btw, Wooster, are you a lefty? (I just wanted to ask this, but then I added the above paragraphs to give this post substance xD)

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:30 pm 
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There's only one outstanding plot twist I know of, I think it'd be hard for us to disagree on that one point even if we're not communicating 'what' said plot twist is. Honestly, I think said plot twist is too juicy to even put in the spoiler tag.

Right now, I'm trying to track down the missing item in the crime scene of the second murder. That should give you a clue where I am, while being intelligently vague enough for the readers here.

And yes, I am a lefty. So for me that means reality on the left, flashback on the right, text and dialog, menus etc on the left, characters and animations on the right.

But yes, I'd say that AAI's logic mode could learn a thing or two from the final mini game from the investigation. Rather then connect logic nodes, you put together the sequence of events. Is it A, B, C, D? Or is it D, B, A, C? I'd argue that it's one of the more engaging points of the game. Well, at least, engaging with decent room for that plot twist. The twist 'really' had my attention.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:35 pm 
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I suppose, but I'm just focusing too much on being on different days o_O

Anyway, I haven't played since the twist, so you are farther ahead.

I am lefty too, so I have the same configuration :P I thought that they might have everything the same way for lefties and righties (dialogue on the left screen, characters on the right) instead of flipping it (dialogue on the bottom DS screen, characters on the top DS screen). I was flipping through the game booklet and noticed that in the screenshots, the sides were reverses, and then because of what you said, it meant that you had the same configuration as I, so I just wanted to confirm that you were lefty. (We had a topic in... one fangame thread (I think it might've been Remnants of the Past?) about handedness... There's actually a ton of lefties on this board xD)

The final minigame was really easy, but of course, it might've been the first time. I do think they could make some clever and difficult deduction puzzles with it.
Spoiler: minor
As long as it's more than "the guy enters" "both are alive" "one if killed" "one is already dead" T_T



EDIT: Okay, got to the second investigation. It's a lot more complex and involved than the first one, which is good :)
Spoiler:
Although I do have a hunch that they are going to re-use the twist... :s

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Okay, I've gotten to Day 5, and just completed the second crime scene and second 19 year old murder. DS is about to die so I don't think I'll make it further then that tonight.

Anyways, there was a ton of investigation, both interviewing people and at the scene of the crime. The crime scene was rather complex as far as investigating it goes. Imagine the non-liniar type investigation of GS, combined with the shear detail involved in GK; However, unlike GS and GK, investigation and interrogation do not coincide. Kinda gives it its own spin on how to do things.

Met Hobohodo, he's quite animated. Although I was surprised to see the item icon when Agent K gave the hobo a hotdog. Considering the hotdog leaves your possession immediately as you get it. Made me hungry.

Still haven't gotten to the second Quiz yet. But I'm sure it's coming. But the game is really shaping up. I think the tutorial phase is over and the real game begins.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:05 am 
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....Still not convinced to buy this.

All I am hearing, over and over again, is the glorification of this one twist which you guys are called a better plot twist than any in PW or HD (which is actually opinionated, of course), as well as the glorification of this investigation phase.

To put it simply, as I've heard, you investigate in 3D, move some things about, look at things and then recreate said scene in the present (which, if no one has realised yet, is entirely pointless. If you can see the scene in the past in your head, there's no point recreating the scene at all. You already know what it looks like.)

Interrogating people is nothing new either.

Wooster wrote:
Rather then connect logic nodes, you put together the sequence of events. Is it A, B, C, D? Or is it D, B, A, C? I'd argue that it's one of the more engaging points of the game. Well, at least, engaging with decent room for that plot twist. The twist 'really' had my attention.


Sounds like a junior school multiple choice question, and if that's engaging, well...it'd be more engaging if they did that and asked you which people and objects coincide with those time periods/events.

Then again, I don't supposed you guys called the recollection part of HD 'engaging', did you? Y'know, the final part of each chapter that tests to see if you've been paying attention?

From a guy who has a very low chance of getting the game (based upon geography), I still don't see these as outright reasons to buy it. Still seems mediocre.

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 Post subject: Re: Another game by CiNG - Again: Eye of Providence
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:15 am 
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We may be glorifying this one twist, but we are really not that far into it. I think it would be basically equivalent to playing 1-1/2-1/3-1/4-1/AAI-1 and loving it and saying how good it is before getting too much farther into the game.

While recreating the scene may seem pointless, it is necessary to do that to active your powers, so...


About sequencing events, it might get better. It was really easy the first time, but I'll see how it is the second time. (Honestly, it was more difficult remembering which fragment corresponded to which event than figuring out the order the events occured in.) However, they might have something like...
Spoiler: idea
in one event a guy is drinking a beer, and in another he throws it out. If it was in the background and not a big deal, then you'd have to look closely at the events to figure out the events, instead of just seeing how many people are alive =\ I'm not saying they are going to do that, but I hope they do...




I think I'm out of the tutorial part, now that I'm (still >_>) in the second investigation, so let's see how it goes from now on :3

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