Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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But Godot is still one of my favorites despite of all that. He's too funny and memorable to not get credit for being an awesome character.
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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linkenski wrote:
I feel like I only ended up liking Godot's theme because I liked Godot, but not as a standalone piece of music. Godot is very likable because of his catch-phrases and sillyness and IMO that can be what a good character consists of. I didn't like his "Tragic end" or his involvment in 3-5 to be honest. It felt like it was necessary for the plot, but after all his derp I just couldn't take him being serious, seriously. It just felt forced to me, and I agree that his character motivations lack coherence... and he's a terrible prosecutor. Probably as terrible as Klavier.
But Godot is still one of my favorites despite of all that. He's too funny and memorable to not get credit for being an awesome character.
But Godot is still one of my favorites despite of all that. He's too funny and memorable to not get credit for being an awesome character.
Yeah, as you said, "IMO". Different people have different standards for liking/disliking a character. Godot could be a badass char, but his development is awful.
Also... his backstory. He doesn't have any background besides "a 27-year old hotshot lawyer who fell in love with Mia".
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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dangerousoffender wrote:
linkenski wrote:
I feel like I only ended up liking Godot's theme because I liked Godot, but not as a standalone piece of music. Godot is very likable because of his catch-phrases and sillyness and IMO that can be what a good character consists of. I didn't like his "Tragic end" or his involvment in 3-5 to be honest. It felt like it was necessary for the plot, but after all his derp I just couldn't take him being serious, seriously. It just felt forced to me, and I agree that his character motivations lack coherence... and he's a terrible prosecutor. Probably as terrible as Klavier.
But Godot is still one of my favorites despite of all that. He's too funny and memorable to not get credit for being an awesome character.
But Godot is still one of my favorites despite of all that. He's too funny and memorable to not get credit for being an awesome character.
Yeah, as you said, "IMO". Different people have different standards for liking/disliking a character. Godot could be a badass char, but his development is awful.
Also... his backstory. He doesn't have any background besides "a 27-year old hotshot lawyer who fell in love with Mia".
ALso gotta remember Godot is a Defence attorney and not a real Prosecutor so in a sense its a invalid arguement
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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dangerousoffender wrote:
Cravat of Doom wrote:
I agree that Godot was a dick but I didn't hate him. He was a good character and his asshole-ness was just part of his characterization. I don't think anyone was excusing it.
In what terms exactly Godot was a good character? Most fans like him because of his catchy phrases/charisma or tragic ending, but I see few people questioning the coherence of his actions and motivations.
No one questions them because they make sense... I'm not sure I understand how this refutes Godot's being a good character-- it proves that people understand his motivations. They were coherent.
Good characters do not necessarily equal good people, and Godot is deeply flawed. But this is what makes him more complex than, say, Shi Long Lang. He feels (wrongly) guilty about not being able to save Mia and this keeps him going through the years and ultimately erodes who he used to be. He was a hurting man, and he had a mask (both literally and figuratively) to hide it. But even though he essentially finished what he started and was able to save a different Fey, he still sort of lost in the end. His tragedy was most of his characterization, but that's not a bad thing. People's pasts can consume them.
Godot was deep and ad the same time he was a shell of who he used to be. We got to see a comparison with who he was--Diego Armando-- and the parallels, in my opinion, were interesting.
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Cravat of Doom wrote:
dangerousoffender wrote:
Cravat of Doom wrote:
I agree that Godot was a dick but I didn't hate him. He was a good character and his asshole-ness was just part of his characterization. I don't think anyone was excusing it.
In what terms exactly Godot was a good character? Most fans like him because of his catchy phrases/charisma or tragic ending, but I see few people questioning the coherence of his actions and motivations.
No one questions them because they make sense... I'm not sure I understand how this refutes Godot's being a good character-- it proves that people understand his motivations. They were coherent.
Good characters do not necessarily equal good people, and Godot is deeply flawed. But this is what makes him more complex than, say, Shi Long Lang. He feels (wrongly) guilty about not being able to save Mia and this keeps him going through the years and ultimately erodes who he used to be. He was a hurting man, and he had a mask (both literally and figuratively) to hide it. But even though he essentially finished what he started and was able to save a different Fey, he still sort of lost in the end. His tragedy was most of his characterization, but that's not a bad thing. People's pasts can consume them.
Godot was deep and ad the same time he was a shell of who he used to be. We got to see a comparison with who he was--Diego Armando-- and the parallels, in my opinion, were interesting.
I never said that good characters equal good people, I just think that Godot fails as a tragic hero. I can understand and sympathize with many anti-heros or even villains, but Godot's motivation sucks. He wrongly felt guilty about Mia's death and blamed a man who obviously couldn't do anything about it and was her trusted pupil. He admitted that he killed Dahlia (Misty) without second thought and in his own words, he would do the same even if the person channeling Dahlia was Pearl, a 8-year-old girl. Plus, he suddenly changed his mind about Wright in 3-5, saying that "Mia's living through him". C'mon, the guy realized that fact only after all that happened? Phoenix is Mia's pupil! His self-pity is annoying.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Quote:
Also... his backstory. He doesn't have any background besides "a 27-year old hotshot lawyer who fell in love with Mia".
Allow me to add, "Wallows in his self-pity" and "Cannot let go of the past" to that and we have Godot's whole reasoning in a nutshell. Although his backstory also included 3-1, where he is mentioned to have been poisoned. Which I think is pretty bad, because while I heard "Diego Armando" in the first case, I failed at remembering him in any way when he was revealed in 3-4... and even that revelation was pretty bad. Too obvious.
Quote:
No one questions them because they make sense... I'm not sure I understand how this refutes Godot's being a good character-- it proves that people understand his motivations.
I may understand his desire for revenge on the woman who poisoned him. But that's it. I see no point in blaming Phoenix for Mia's death, setting this whole crap up to make himself look like a "hero" and deciding to fuel his hatred and bad feelings by constantly approaching Phoenix. The only thing I might understand is the blaming of Phoenix, because Godot is too weak to face the fact that he failed.
And I hate weak people, so they kinda shot themselves in the foot there in making Godot likeable to people like me...
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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He seems like a case of everything not really working. He has a cool design, I like all the coffee talk (being someone who drinks around 9 cups a day myself) and his music is good. That's pretty much it.
First off, the motivations behind his character never made sense to me. I guess its possible that Phoenix could somehow be blamed as one of many different factors for Mia's death, but that's a stretch, so the fact that he puts the blame solely on Phoenix is ridiculous. What makes it even more ridiculous is then how quickly he switches his opinion. So the character doesn't have a good background to build on. He's also a rude, sexist, irritating character who the developers try to make us be sympathetic/like them the same way we like Edgeworth/Franziska/Klavier for but most of the time it doesn't work and he goes into the same category of Manfred and Payne.
I played AJ first, so the first experience I had with a prosecutor was with Klavier, who I know many don't like. But there is no question in my mind that Klavier is a way better character than Godot is. I played GS4, then GS1, then GS2, and then finally GS3, and he was the only prosecutor I got bored and let down by. Wasn't a great finale, that's for sure.
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Speaking just all characters ever... maybe Max Galactica. Just painfully annoying, and for gods sake man, put on some pants!
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Sligneris wrote:
Godot in my opinion is a well-developed character while Klavier... I had my thoughts on him written down om the other thread.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Klavier is not fully developted yet. Unlike Godot, Klavier is a character who supposedly will appear more times, since he has been established as Apollo's rival/friend. Godot was supposed to appear only in GS3, with his history beginning and ending at that point as a "tragic hero".
Klavier may be vain and a bit presumptuous sometimes but that's NOTHING compared with Godot's assholeness, brashness and sexism. Also, Klavier matured since his flashback/debut trial (he was a 17-year-old). He's the most mature of the prosecutors since he's not reluctant to help when the defense raises a very good point.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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dangerousoffender wrote:
Sligneris wrote:
Godot in my opinion is a well-developed character while Klavier... I had my thoughts on him written down om the other thread.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Klavier is not fully developted yet. Unlike Godot, Klavier is a character who supposedly will appear more times, since he has been established as Apollo's rival/friend. Godot was supposed to appear only in GS3, with his history beginning and ending at that point as a "tragic hero".
Klavier may be vain and a bit presumptuous sometimes but that's NOTHING compared with Godot's assholeness, brashness and sexism. Also, Klavier matured since his flashback/debut trial (he was a 17-year-old). He's the most mature of the prosecutors since he's not reluctant to help when the defense raises a very good point.
While I agree with a lot of what you've said, I don't think we can expect much more character development from Klavier; after all, when it was proven that one of his best friends was a murderer and a smuggler and his brother was a total psychopath, he didn't bat an eye, and the subject was never brought up again.
He has missed great opportunities to develop as a character, and I doubt they'll introduce more.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Quote:
While I agree with a lot of what you've said, I don't think we can expect much more character development from Klavier; after all, when it was proven that one of his best friends was a murderer and a smuggler and his brother was a total psychopath, he didn't bat an eye, and the subject was never brought up again.
That may be a "problem" with the writers from AJ... as mentioned, Trucy doesn't seem to care at all that her father disappeared for years, reappeared for one night, didn't even decide to see her and got killed. So maybe Klavier not reacting is similar.
I personally don't have much of an opinion on Klavier. I like his outfit. As a character, he didn't leave much of an impression on me, so I can't say I dislike it that he doesn't care that his brother is a jerk, who was absolutely willing to cheat in a trial as his opponent and a murderer. Though I can't say many of the AJ characters left much of an impression on me... except for Naruhobo and that was because he was openly cynical now.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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dangerousoffender wrote:
Klavier is not fully developted yet. Unlike Godot, Klavier is a character who supposedly will appear more times, since he has been established as Apollo's rival/friend. Godot was supposed to appear only in GS3, with his history beginning and ending at that point as a "tragic hero".
Klavier may be vain and a bit presumptuous sometimes but that's NOTHING compared with Godot's assholeness, brashness and sexism. Also, Klavier matured since his flashback/debut trial (he was a 17-year-old). He's the most mature of the prosecutors since he's not reluctant to help when the defense raises a very good point.
Sorry, we really can't base things on 'potential games not written (or even conceptualised) yet'. We can only assess Klavier on the games where he did appear.
Spoiler: GS5
I dislike both Klavier and Godot, (for different reasons, Klavier is a spoiled brat who still doesn't care he ruined Phoenix and is still whining about his brother to brother contest, Godot is a sexist jerk) however they're far from the worst...
The worst character in-world is Zak and the worst character in the franchise is MIKE MEEKINS: as in 'characters who should never have been invented in the first place'.
The worst character in terms of visual design is Brushel, ughhhh..
CatMuto wrote:
That may be a "problem" with the writers from AJ... as mentioned, Trucy doesn't seem to care at all that her father disappeared for years, reappeared for one night, didn't even decide to see her and got killed. So maybe Klavier not reacting is similar.
That's a good point but unlike Klavier it can also be read as Zak just being a terrible father, so Trucy didn't really miss him all that much. And we get that superficial credit scene where we're TOLD Trucy apparently does care. Anyway it might be 'bad' writing but that's all we get so that is Klavier's character, he doesn't exist outside their writing if you know what I mean?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
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He looks freaky as hell but I love it. I love the way he bends his head down his shoulders and looks suspiciously at you and all his discreet animations where he's writing on his arm, or his nervous one where he brushes his teeth and then his glasses. He's just so jumpy it made me laugh a lot and he's very memorable in a good way to me.
Mike Meekins though... I agree. Who the hell ever thought that character was actually funny!? I guess it's Japanese humor of some sorts that I don't get.
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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linkenski wrote:
Mike Meekins though... I agree. Who the hell ever thought that character was actually funny!? I guess it's Japanese humor of some sorts that I don't get.
We can't really blame Japanese humor for that. I mean, even western TV shows, books or movies have that "bumbling detective" image in them. Gumshoe is a bumbling detective. Meekins is one as well, with the difference that he is also........... meek. Sometimes I dislike the pun names, they ruin explanations He fucks up, but he is just so gosh-darn enthusiastic about his job!
He's like the whimsical fuck up with a heart of gold guy you see in tons of movies. The guy who just makes mistakes, but he cares and that makes him great.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
NYAN-NYAN-NYAN-NYAN-NYAN-NYAN-NYAN
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I have a list.
Mike Meekins (super hard to cross examine, Sir!)
Damon Gant (he gave me an impression of a pedobear , and enyone swimming leatly?)
Oldbag (because she is too talk'ish, whippersnapper!)
Godot (to him: grow a pair and start facing shit like it is!)
Winston Payne (too full of himself)
Aaand thats all folks, hehehehehahaha!
NYAN
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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At first she seems to be a very traditional and kind woman, but soon it becomes clear how aggressive she is. Kinda ironic to me that she is Pearl's mother, as Pearl seems to be quite different. Well...except for the violence thingy, she also slaps Phoenix for small reasons.
I also dislike the traditional thing actually. It seems like she wants to live in the past and is stuck in revenge plans. Also I didn't like her behaviour at all, for example when she slaps Phoenix for pretty stupid reasons.
Spoiler: JFA and T&T
Hey, they are simply my favourites.^^
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Thane wrote:
dangerousoffender wrote:
Sligneris wrote:
Godot in my opinion is a well-developed character while Klavier... I had my thoughts on him written down om the other thread.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Also, calling Godot rude... Really? I mean, Klavier, which you praise that much was much, much worse in a flashback trial.
Klavier is not fully developted yet. Unlike Godot, Klavier is a character who supposedly will appear more times, since he has been established as Apollo's rival/friend. Godot was supposed to appear only in GS3, with his history beginning and ending at that point as a "tragic hero".
Klavier may be vain and a bit presumptuous sometimes but that's NOTHING compared with Godot's assholeness, brashness and sexism. Also, Klavier matured since his flashback/debut trial (he was a 17-year-old). He's the most mature of the prosecutors since he's not reluctant to help when the defense raises a very good point.
While I agree with a lot of what you've said, I don't think we can expect much more character development from Klavier; after all, when it was proven that one of his best friends was a murderer and a smuggler and his brother was a total psychopath, he didn't bat an eye, and the subject was never brought up again.
He has missed great opportunities to develop as a character, and I doubt they'll introduce more.
I admit that Klavier could be way more better developted... But I guess he's just the type of character without much complexity. He's not very deep, he's just the 'cool guy' and I can see why many don't like him. Although he WAS sad and pissed at Kristoph. In Apollo's words: "Prosecutor Gavin looks like he's in pain" or something like that.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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My least favourite character not written to be hated was Jake Marshall.... I couldn't stand him... He had no real value as a character, only Mr Western-copy-his-dead-brother, and that random poncho!? He shaves in court? That kinda weirded me out a little...
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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KōhīKazeToGengakki wrote:
As for characters that I found annoying, going with Mike Meekins (I doubt I have to explain why) and Calisto Yew, because I hate how she laughs at everything, when normal people would be taking things seriously.
Ho boy, you'd hate my mother and me.
We can laugh at practically anything. I mean, we can be serious about things at times, but we would still make jokes about it... eventually. Like, looking back at something and laugh about stuff we might have thought about during that moment, but never said out loud.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
You know, a Mario game!
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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WaitingforGodot wrote:
I'm playing Apollo Justice case four now. Oh dear. Brushel is vile.
I'm sorry, Spark. That was a little too harsh. After all, I found Wocky more annoying.
...this is so typically me. Feeling guilty about fictional characters. Like when the time I was extremely annoyed by Lotta's music and told my sibling "I don't really know how I feel about Lotta". I still feel a little guilty. Dear Lotta!
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Her entire character is revealed within the first five minutes, she develops exactly like one would assume her to, her constant threatening was never menacing, and it gets old very, VERY quickly. Her boring, faceless-blob personality also shows up EVERYWHERE.
I don't mind the occasional intentionally obnoxious character, but I can't stand the ones we're supposed to at least appreciate for no adequately explained reason.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Thane wrote:
I think I'm going to have to add Justine Courtney from Gyakuten Kenji 2 to my list of disliked characters.
Care to tell us who you mean? I mean, not everybody has played the patched GK2 yet - whether out of personal preference or because they couldn't get the patch to work yet.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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CatMuto wrote:
Thane wrote:
I think I'm going to have to add Justine Courtney from Gyakuten Kenji 2 to my list of disliked characters.
Care to tell us who you mean? I mean, not everybody has played the patched GK2 yet - whether out of personal preference or because they couldn't get the patch to work yet.
C-A
What would you like me to explain? She's a major character in Gyakuten Kenji 2, and she repeats the same lines over and over again. I swear it's like reading Naruto.
I'm just kidding, it's not that bad, but she's boring, predictable and omnipresent. I don't really want to go into details since, like you just pointed out, a lot of people don't even know who she is.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Thane wrote:
What would you like me to explain? She's a major character in Gyakuten Kenji 2, and she repeats the same lines over and over again. I swear it's like reading Naruto.
I was more referring to, like, a visual description. Or just say It's the female Judge and we'll know who you mean. You could say, it's the brunette with the big jugs and I'd know who you were talking about. Or say extendable gavel.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Penny Nichols - Where's my personality?
Lance Amano - See above
Jacques Portsman - I have to admit I was somewhat spoiled on this guy; before AAI came out someone played him in an RP I was in as this hilariously over-the-top enthusiastic sports junkie, so when I played the actual game and he turned out to be a fairly bland guy who just had a b-ball hoop outside his door and only made one reference to his medals...yeah.
Wendy Oldbag - Oldbag actually wasn't that bad in 1-3! Then in every subsequent appearance she turned more and more into a caricature of herself.
Alita Tiala - Shitty Dahlia ripoff is shitty.
Godot, sort of - I honestly don't dislike Godot himself as much as I dislike the way the other characters and a good percent of his fanbase let so much of his bullshit slide just because he's soooooooooo cool and has nice theme music and blah blah tragic past (yeah how many AA characters don't have one of those). Yeah, he's a jackass, but so is Manfred and I think he's great.
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Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Sligneris wrote:
Well, Godot is sort of a tragic character. While he may be egoistic in all of this tragism, but he found himself without purpose in life after awaking from a coma. So yeah...
I wouldn't call him tragic, mostly because he didn't even seem to try to get a new purpose after waking up from the coma. He just realized that he woke up, Mia was dead, Dahlia was also dead* and he has every right to be sad about that. But he just seemed to me like he wanted to mope in his misery and stay like that, not even trying to do something new. No, his idea was instantly, "Blame Phoenix. Be a dick to him."
* And I'll say it again, 3-5 takes place in February - or was it January? - and they say Dahlia's execution was done one month prior to said case. Godot was awake around September, Dahlia was still alive, he could've gone and met her. Even if it was just to spit into her face.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Mirii-chan wrote:
Iris is my least favourite character. I liked Dahlia, because behind that perfect 'Mary-sue' exterior, she was really evil. Iris on the other hand, is just sickly sweet. She just irritated me the entire playthrough, and has never grown on me.
Dahlia was not written or displayed as a Mary Sue. She was displayed as a sickly sweet kind, like Iris, although it was just played.
C-A
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
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Rank: Medium-in-training
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CatMuto wrote:
Mirii-chan wrote:
Iris is my least favourite character. I liked Dahlia, because behind that perfect 'Mary-sue' exterior, she was really evil. Iris on the other hand, is just sickly sweet. She just irritated me the entire playthrough, and has never grown on me.
Dahlia was not written or displayed as a Mary Sue. She was displayed as a sickly sweet kind, like Iris, although it was just played.
C-A
That was what I meant, probably Mary Sue wasn't the right term.
I meant that she seemed like the perfect 'cutesy' type of woman.
Re: Least Favorite Ace Attorney character and why?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
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Posts: 1637
I mean his arc was obviously well planned-out, it didn't feel contrived in the slightest but I just didn't buy his sudden sentimentality after he had been so derp in cases before 3-5. It doesn't help that 3-5 is overall a pretty boring-ass case IMO. It's the worst final-case in the main trilogy IMO. And 4 was just tedious. The only good bits in T&T were case 2 and case 3 and they were excellent, 10/10 IMO.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
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