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Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Zoinks
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One thing that stood out to me this time was how alot of weight was placed on Doug Swallow's watch stopping at 3:05 PM - a full 9 minutes later than what Dahlia suggested. This allowed Mia Fey to point out that there was a 10 minute interval in which Dahlia could have easily murdered Swallow.
I'm surprised there was so much weight given to this argument, because surely it could have been pointed out that Doug's watch is not a guaranteed indicator of the time relative to what was recorded via the official investigation, i.e. the watch could have been 9 minutes late? That would have meant the watch wouldn't hold as evidence.
Guess we could extrapolate this and say if Mia's argument didn't hold weight, the case would have ended, Phoenix Wright have been sent to jail (or maybe even executed) with Dahlia free as a bird, and the events of the entire series to date wouldn't have occurred.
This is probably one of many weaknesses in AA scripts and as such has probably been noted already, but there's a chance I'm missing something about the circumstances surrounding the watch, so feel free to correct me if that's the case.
Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Turning him a lot more bitter and colder than in canon, I mean who could blame him?
He was accused of a murder he knows he didn't commit, and on top of that, he learned that his long time girlfriend was the one behind it, and then he learns she didn't care for him at all, AND that she would've tried to kill him if it meant shutting him up about the necklace, and THEN revealing that she was responsible for MUCH more horrible crimes.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Phoenix did turn out colder and meaner than what he actually did, I mean with the suddenness of it, I consider Phoenix a very strong willed man to be able to cope with that amount of stress and heartbreak.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Zoinks
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zpattack12 wrote:
Well, I don't think that was the decisive thing that got it, but its what allowed Mia to keep on going, and to delay the verdict, until she was able to have more concrete proof, such as the umbrella, and her pretty much confessing. All the watch does is open up options to what could've happen, and you take that idea and run.
You have a point, but I can't help but wonder what the situation would have ended up as had that opening not been found in Dahlia's testimony...
shippersdreamer wrote:
Another possibility we could explore is that if Phoenix's betrayal made him turn almost like Edgeworth in the first game.
Turning him a lot more bitter and colder than in canon, I mean who could blame him?
He was accused of a murder he knows he didn't commit, and on top of that, he learned that his long time girlfriend was the one behind it, and then he learns she didn't care for him at all, AND that she would've tried to kill him if it meant shutting him up about the necklace, and THEN revealing that she was responsible for MUCH more horrible crimes.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Phoenix did turn out colder and meaner than what he actually did, I mean with the suddenness of it, I consider Phoenix a very strong willed man to be able to cope with that amount of stress and heartbreak.
Turning him a lot more bitter and colder than in canon, I mean who could blame him?
He was accused of a murder he knows he didn't commit, and on top of that, he learned that his long time girlfriend was the one behind it, and then he learns she didn't care for him at all, AND that she would've tried to kill him if it meant shutting him up about the necklace, and THEN revealing that she was responsible for MUCH more horrible crimes.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Phoenix did turn out colder and meaner than what he actually did, I mean with the suddenness of it, I consider Phoenix a very strong willed man to be able to cope with that amount of stress and heartbreak.
It's an interesting idea to be sure, and wholeheartedly agree with that last paragraph! The crap Phoenix went through would have driven most other people insane. I think Mia sticking up for him the same way Edgeworth and Larry defended him during the 'school trial' gave him the strength he needed to face his ordeal.
Damarus wrote:
Poor Phoenix, although, I must say his attitude in that case was way too childish for a 21 year-old. I mean, he was as childish as Larry, if not more childish than Larry, but I can't criticize him too much. After all, that case has pretty much broken his heart when he found out Dahlia never really loved him. I could pretty much feel his pain as I progressed through the trial.
You think so? I'm 21 years old myself and can almost certainly see myself acting pretty much the same way Phoenix did (well, apart from the "my perfect Dollie doesn't poop!" thing). It can be very easy to get fixated on someone if you let your guard down, and quite devastating when you feel your heart's been severed into pieces..poor, poor Phoenix.
Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Yellow Magician wrote:
You think so? I'm 21 years old myself and can almost certainly see myself acting pretty much the same way Phoenix did (well, apart from the "my perfect Dollie doesn't poop!" thing). It can be very easy to get fixated on someone if you let your guard down, and quite devastating when you feel your heart's been severed into pieces..poor, poor Phoenix.
Well, I was just comparing his behavior then to his behavior as a lawyer, with a little bit of my opinion in between. I'm only 18 myself, and to be honest, I hardly believe I would act the same way he did in court, as I would be rather formal, were I in his position. But, as I have previously mentioned, I don't find myself in a position to criticize him too much, as he was a victim in this case, after all. That fact alone would kill all my critics towards him and earn him my sincere sympathy.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Damarus wrote:
Poor Phoenix, although, I must say his attitude in that case was way too childish for a 21 year-old. I mean, he was as childish as Larry, if not more childish than Larry, but I can't criticize him too much. After all, that case has pretty much broken his heart when he found out Dahlia never really loved him. I could pretty much feel his pain as I progressed through the trial.
I have to agree. He was a bit... too melodramatic for someone that age. I can understand him doing stupid things to protect Dahlia/Iris, but bursting into tears every five minutes was ridiculous. It's one thing to have those emotions, but to lack any and all control over them, especially in a setting like that, makes me think he must have been abducted by aliens and replaced with a crybaby clone.
I also try to reason that the romance turned his head to mush as well as his heart. And it's possible that being on cold medicine contributed to it also... but there are times I look at AA Phoenix, then back at the Phoenix of T&T case 1 and go, "Who the hell IS that guy?"
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Zoinks
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The way Phoenix picked himself up towards the end was great, though. Legendary character, fo realz.
Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Adrian in black wrote:
Damarus wrote:
Poor Phoenix, although, I must say his attitude in that case was way too childish for a 21 year-old. I mean, he was as childish as Larry, if not more childish than Larry, but I can't criticize him too much. After all, that case has pretty much broken his heart when he found out Dahlia never really loved him. I could pretty much feel his pain as I progressed through the trial.
I have to agree. He was a bit... too melodramatic for someone that age. I can understand him doing stupid things to protect Dahlia/Iris, but bursting into tears every five minutes was ridiculous. It's one thing to have those emotions, but to lack any and all control over them, especially in a setting like that, makes me think he must have been abducted by aliens and replaced with a crybaby clone.
I also try to reason that the romance turned his head to mush as well as his heart. And it's possible that being on cold medicine contributed to it also... but there are times I look at AA Phoenix, then back at the Phoenix of T&T case 1 and go, "Who the hell IS that guy?"
There's also how he must've felt being accused of murder, with a death penalty hanging over his head, with that he thinks all of his friends will think him a murderer, and that later during the trial, Dahlia testifies against him, his own girlfriend. If that won't make a guy cry I don't know what will.
Does this excuse how often he's crying all the time? No, but hopefully it helps explain how he turned into one, considering we have no idea how rough the police were on him...well I wouldn't have minded if Phoenix cried once or twice. But crying about 10 times in 5 minutes isn't an excuse.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Your Honor! There is a contradiction!
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Damarus wrote:
And to think after that case, Phoenix would become Mia's understudy... the very same defense attorney who took his defense in that trial... His statement: "I hope to see you again someday, Ms. Fey. Maybe even in court!" has ended up coming true if you think about it for a second. It goes to show how much he was able to mature after getting over that tragedy.
I completely agree, I think it shows Phoenix's ability to mature and cope with that big tragedy in his life. But speaking about Phoenix being Mia's understudy, I always wondered what happened between Phoenix's acquittal and becoming Mia's junior lawyer, Capcom has never given any sort of backstory, so it would be interesting to know about Phoenix's personal Trials and Tribulations healing and passing the bar exam.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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CatMuto wrote:
The watch would never hold up as that great of evidence, either. If I remember correctly, it was a manual watch. They can easily be manipulated.
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That might not be the case, since they mentioned that the electric shock broke the watch.
Can Manual watches stop working if electrocuted?
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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shippersdreamer wrote:
CatMuto wrote:
The watch would never hold up as that great of evidence, either. If I remember correctly, it was a manual watch. They can easily be manipulated.
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C-A
That might not be the case, since they mentioned that the electric shock broke the watch.
Can Manual watches stop working if electrocuted?
I think they can. After all, the electric shock causes the battery to stop, yes. But the time can still be easily manipulated, since the time is generally set by that small wheel on the side of the watch. Since that is done manually and not electronically, it's very easy to manipulate any time.
It's like in Agatha Christie novels, where the pocket watch was wound to a certain time, then dented to break it, making the time of the crime seem the one on the watch.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Logic ~ The Way To The Truth
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shippersdreamer wrote:
Damarus wrote:
And to think after that case, Phoenix would become Mia's understudy... the very same defense attorney who took his defense in that trial... His statement: "I hope to see you again someday, Ms. Fey. Maybe even in court!" has ended up coming true if you think about it for a second. It goes to show how much he was able to mature after getting over that tragedy.
I completely agree, I think it shows Phoenix's ability to mature and cope with that big tragedy in his life. But speaking about Phoenix being Mia's understudy, I always wondered what happened between Phoenix's acquittal and becoming Mia's junior lawyer, Capcom has never given any sort of backstory, so it would be interesting to know about Phoenix's personal Trials and Tribulations healing and passing the bar exam.
About those little bits of backstory unknown to the fans, they could make an anime out of it. It would be pretty interesting.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
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Damarus wrote:
shippersdreamer wrote:
Damarus wrote:
And to think after that case, Phoenix would become Mia's understudy... the very same defense attorney who took his defense in that trial... His statement: "I hope to see you again someday, Ms. Fey. Maybe even in court!" has ended up coming true if you think about it for a second. It goes to show how much he was able to mature after getting over that tragedy.
I completely agree, I think it shows Phoenix's ability to mature and cope with that big tragedy in his life. But speaking about Phoenix being Mia's understudy, I always wondered what happened between Phoenix's acquittal and becoming Mia's junior lawyer, Capcom has never given any sort of backstory, so it would be interesting to know about Phoenix's personal Trials and Tribulations healing and passing the bar exam.
About those little bits of backstory unknown to the fans, they could make an anime out of it. It would be pretty interesting.
I would love to watch an anime on that.
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Re: Regarding the 1st Case *game-wide spoilers*
Zoinks
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