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Re: NG9 Game Thread (Round 5: Near the Combine)Topic%20Title
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A robotic voice comes out of a speaker hidden somewhere in the grass:

"Three lied..."
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"...Oh my." Hazel seemed a bit surprised. "That hardly seems fair to the liars, does it? ...Well, at least we can try piecing everything together now. It seems Zero is aware of our pasts. Perhaps they evenly divided this game so that there were three people in each group after all", she suggested. "Earlier rounds seem to line up with the fact that they know what they were doing, which means...There seem to be five people in group C, yet only 1 in group B. I believe this is self explanatory... two people must clearly be lying. Lying about their profound hate towards Jason Church. Or... at least two people. There appears to be another liar rampant somewhere as well..." She glanced in Stella's and Luka's direction.
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“Those of us who claim to not have known Jason can’t really provide any valuable information. So I’d first like to hear from the people who did know Jason—or those admitting it, at least,” Astrid said, turning towards the four in Groups A and B.
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Re: NG9 Game Thread (Round 5: Near the Combine)Topic%20Title
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"...Very well. I don't have much to say on the matter, however", Hazel replied. "But when his name came up in the Church room, I did get reminded of him... I'd completely forgotten about him till then. But I did know him... he was a nice young lad, as far as I can remember... He was friends with my boy, too. I believe the drawings you all saw in that room might have been of the both of us together..."

"I also told the people in the Church room all this", she added softly. "So I believe they can corroborate my story. This was before this game had happened as well. I have no reason to lie, an old woman such as myself has no reason to bear such grudges, especially against such a young fellow."
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"Luka, don't you have my idea of what kind of people your friend wouldn't like, or something like that?" Ember asked. "It's a bit of a long shot, but I feel like it's easier than trying to get the truth out of liars..."
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"I don't have anything to add that I haven't already said. I had no idea who most of you were before this game started, let alone how you knew or didn't know Jason."
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“I don’t have much to add.” Luka sighed. “I’m sorry, but I really just don’t think I can help much.”

There was a brief pause before he added something, “He told me this story once. When he was young he was out with a friend, and there was some sort of accident. His friend died—he had to run away and tell his family what happened.”

He frowned, as if upset that he couldn’t recall more about the story. “If you’re asking my gut, I think Wesley is one of the liars. When nothing was on the line he said he didn’t know Jason. And now when he can make money off of it he admits to to hating him, I don’t buy it. I think he’s in group C, but I can admit that there’s a chance Jason was important to him if he remembered an article from 20 years ago. Like I said, just my gut.”
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"I think gut feelings are the only way to do this, at least for me. Stella's account seems like one I'd call out if I had to," Anna says. "But I'm not sure I can provide any proof."

She then turns to Ember, "How do you know this isn't it?"
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“HAH!” Maximillion danced on his feet shuffling them back and forward like a boxer playing with footwork before throwing out a full body straight pointing at Hazel. “Madame, only a liar would complain about the unfairness of such a benefit! But maybe you are merely mistaken in your memory rather than a miserable manipulative liar? I feel you need to elaborate more.”

Maximillion crossed his arms a sharkish grin on his face. “Since this is a prime moment for discussing history, Luka...can you corroborate anything of Hazels story? Perhaps you too Stella?”
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"Luka, there was an article claiming Jason kidnapped you, are you really not in group B?" Wesley asked.

"As for myself, I'm not lying about this. I detest Jason Church. Likely more than any other individual here. My reasons are my own, and stretch back to the very earliest years of my life. I will say no more on the matter," he concluded resolutely.

"We should think about this in game terms as well. Three liars mean that anyone telling the truth earns nothing. We need to shift at least one liar to even make any money at all. I don't have much reason to believe anyone in group C is lying, but that would imply all of group A is lying, which strikes me as... unlikely. Unless they all have a personal grudge against Jason, which is plausible."
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Datamatt wrote:
She then turns to Ember, "How do you know this isn't it?"

"Because I know who got married here, and it's not you. But that's not important right now." Ember 'explained'. "I think it's likely that Anna is lying without knowing it. Maybe Zero is using her amnesia as a way to make sure this game had at least one liar. But there's no way to know if she's in group A or B, so I guess this reasoning is a dead end..."
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"My belief is that to 'lie' is to consciously say something that you believe to be untrue," Wesley said. "You are not lying if you say something you think is true that is, in reality, false. And you are lying if you say something correct but think it's untrue as you say it. I suppose it is only my opinion, but I like to think I know a lot about lying. Lying defines who I am, as an actor."
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Pierre wrote:
“HAH!” Maximillion danced on his feet shuffling them back and forward like a boxer playing with footwork before throwing out a full body straight pointing at Hazel. “Madame, only a liar would complain about the unfairness of such a benefit! But maybe you are merely mistaken in your memory rather than a miserable manipulative liar? I feel you need to elaborate more.”

Maximillion crossed his arms a sharkish grin on his face. “Since this is a prime moment for discussing history, Luka...can you corroborate anything of Hazels story? Perhaps you too Stella?”

"No."
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KamiPanda wrote:
"Luka, there was an article claiming Jason kidnapped you, are you really not in group B?" Wesley asked.

"Yes--this is the kind of information we need," Astrid said. She hadn't bothered to hide her irritation as the others spoke, but perked up once Wesley said this. "Does anyone else have any information that would imply anyone here is lying? Once we have all the facts, I think we can begin discussing hunches and theories."

Quote:
"We should think about this in game terms as well. Three liars mean that anyone telling the truth earns nothing. We need to shift at least one liar to even make any money at all. I don't have much reason to believe anyone in group C is lying, but that would imply all of group A is lying, which strikes me as... unlikely. Unless they all have a personal grudge against Jason, which is plausible."

"Except," Astrid cut in, "If we only get one or two of the liars, then the prize of the remaining liars will increase. If someone manages to get the entire $500,000 liar prize pool... There are a few people where that would put them almost at the finish line, and there might be a person or two where that would actually allow them to win. The worst we can do is a mediocre job.

"As I see it, there are three general strategies we can take. First, we can play the game in the most straightforward manner, and try to figure out the exact three liars and move them. This is a high-risk high-reward strategy. Second, we can intentionally do nothing. The liars will earn $166,666, but no more. Third, we can actively move lots of people to try to guarantee we get all the liars. This strategy likely has the highest probability of preventing the liars from earning anything, but would also likely result in the truth-tellers earning nothing either.

"Putting aside the issue of which of these strategies is optimal, I don't think we should vote for anyone until the end, when we've decided exactly what we want to do."
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"Fourth, we can all just lie and split the pot."
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The voice comes on again.

"Here is a hint: The engineers belong in the same group."

"Here is a second hint: One actor is in group A, the other is in group B."

"Here is a third hint: Four of you here went to Fox Harbor High School during the same year."
Re: NG9 Game Thread (Round 5: Near the Combine)Topic%20Title
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"... there's an engineer here?"
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
"Fourth, we can all just lie and split the pot."

“That’s would have been viable, but it’s too late,” Astrid said. “Only those who initially lied earn money from being in the wrong group.”

Datamatt wrote:
"... there's an engineer here?"

“Yes. Hello.” Astrid said dryly. “I’m one of them. Wesley is obviously one of the actors. And I suppose Luka, Stella, and Wesley were all high school classmates. But who’s the last person in each group?”
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"Well, the high school one should be simple to work out!" Vivienne declared, "Unless someone was held back for several years, they'd surely be the same age as Stella and Wesley. Would you all be willing to share? Obviously Miss Hawthorne is too old, and I think Miss Jepsen and Mr. Lauder might be too. I'm not sure beyond that."
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Re: NG9 Game Thread (Round 5: Near the Combine)Topic%20Title
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Franzise Deauxnim wrote:
"Fourth, we can all just lie and split the pot."

"That's not how it works. Only the liars from the start of the game get anything."
Pierre wrote:
Maximillion crossed his arms a sharkish grin on his face. “Since this is a prime moment for discussing history, Luka...can you corroborate anything of Hazels story? Perhaps you too Stella?”

"Hazel's telling the truth. If she's lying, she's Zero too. That's all I'm sure of." Luka decided. "She told us about him in the Church room, and her feelings about him." His eyes flitted to Stella. "I think Stella's telling the truth too... but the last thing she probably heard of Jason in 20 years is that he kidnapped me and then we disappeared. So maybe she hated him over that, I don't know. I think it's more likely than not she's telling the truth at least."
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"Luka, there was an article claiming Jason kidnapped you, are you really not in group B?" Wesley asked.

"As for myself, I'm not lying about this. I detest Jason Church. Likely more than any other individual here. My reasons are my own, and stretch back to the very earliest years of my life. I will say no more on the matter," he concluded resolutely."

"I didn't know about that until today, and that's just bullshit tabloid speculation." He defended. "And sorry, that's not good enough. As far as I know you're being vague so you don't get called out of any details. Maybe you did go to our school, I'm not sure. But Jason wasn't mean to anyone." He stated as if it was an indisputable conclusion. "... he wouldn't have been."

Luka looked away, it was unclear whether he was irritated or still depressed. Probably both. "Anyway, I agree with Astrid. The worst-case is somebody getting $500,000. I think we should move everyone--the rules specified the liars should be in the same category as they started to get anything too."
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"Well neither Luka nor I are actors, so unless the hint wasn't meant to be taken literally, that leaves Hazel. I don't see how that helps us figure out who goes where, though."
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“Do the liars need to be in the same group they started in, or either of their wrong groups?” Astrid asked aloud. “I suspect the latter, as this game feels too easy otherwise. If we want to move everyone, we can certainly take that approach. Everyone in A and B can be moved to C, and we just need to make our best guesses for those in C.

“I think you could tell from my appearance that I’m not the same age as Wesley and Stella, but for the record I’m 46.”
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"Astrid didn't know the answer to the quiz bowl question about Jason, and neither did Ember." Luka added. "We know Max deliberately answered incorrectly but he's more up in the air, I guess."
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"Yes, while I'm afraid my memory is bad, I'm quite certain I have nothing significant against the lad", Hazel confirmed. "I'd completely forgotten about him till now, that fact alone seems to suggest to me that he was nobody harmful to me, certainly not someone I would loathe with so much passion."

"That said, I am... not an 'actor'. I suppose I live on a farm if you wish to know my occupation, but that is all. Perhaps two other people could be in this group, but once more, that seems a bit imbalanced. Perhaps it doesn't need to be evenly distributed at all, though..."
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Wesley seemed surprised by all three hints. "There's a second engineer? Someone else here went to my school? And... someone else here is an actor?" He looked around at everyone present, rather fruitlessly as he wasn't able to glean anything new.

"You're... right about Jason," he then said, facing Luka. "He never meant to harm anyone. But that doesn't mean I can let him off the hook. I'm just... glad there were people like you, too. Glad it's not just people who despise him; I'm not sure I could face that.

"Regarding the hints... I believe the actor hint is implying one actor is supposed to be in A, and one is supposed to be in B. Not that one is claiming to be in A and the other claiming to be in B. I wonder if this second actor has anything to do with the person who replaced me in that strange film edit?

"The second engineer could be... Maximillion, Anna, or perhaps Luka?" he then said, though he sounded uncertain. "I'm not sure what Maximillion's role in all this is, Anna could be anyone, and Luka did work on that sound recording device.

"As for the high school hint, well, that one is especially strange. I'm tempted to say it must be Anna by default."
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“The second engineer can’t be Luka,” Astrid shook her head. “I didn’t know Jason, so I belong in group C, and it seems fairly certain that Luka goes in group A or B.”
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"The strategy involving giving nobody money is valid. You can disrupt the liars by simply moving them. If that is your wish for this game, that is understandable."
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"I'm willing to believe Mr. Naught is telling the truth," Vivienne replied, "Additionally, Anna being one of the high school students seems like the only option that makes sense. While it seems odd that her memory loss could allow her to unknowingly lie, that also means we have a chance to learn more about her background. Since everyone seems to be such a fan of Mr. Church, she probably belongs in Group A."

Bad Player wrote:
“The second engineer can’t be Luka,” Astrid shook her head. “I didn’t know Jason, so I belong in group C, and it seems fairly certain that Luka goes in group A or B.”


"If that's true, then the second engineer belongs in Group C as well," Vivienne added, "It seems strange that someone would lie about knowing Jason, so they might be in that group already. All we really gain from this is the knowledge that someone is lying about their occupation...or does not remember it."
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Doctor Nanjo wrote:
"The strategy involving giving nobody money is valid. You can disrupt the liars by simply moving them. If that is your wish for this game, that is understandable."

“Ah...” Astrid seemed genuinely surprised. “So to prevent the liars from earning money, we just need to move them. To get money ourselves, we need to move them to the correct group. That... does make this more manageable. I think the ‘move everyone’ plan is certainly viable, but we should discuss this fully and see what we can figure out from the hints before deciding.”
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"I mean... the only thing I know about myself is I got married, if that makes any sense. Maybe Wesley or someone else would know if someone like that is their acquaintance, but I have no idea. I'm not sure anyone here would know me either." Anna sounds like she's rambling at this point.
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“By the way, what are Stella and Vivienne’s professions?” Astrid asked.
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"I don't see how that's relevant. I'm not an actor or an engineer, I'll say that much."
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"Did someone not mention that you were a taxidermist of some kind earlier?" Hazel asked.
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Stella shrugged.
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"Ah but Stella my dear, you carry yourself with the grace and grandeur of the finest actresses to walk on Broadway." Maximillion sang.

"I suppose I could be considered an engineer of sorts though I tend to think of myself more as an inventor." Maximillion shrugged "So me and Astrid are probably in the right place."


He crossed his arms "Still Stella can't corroborate Hazel's story but Luka claims she's telling the truth?"

Maximillion closed his eyes for a moment the cogs whirring in the back of his head.

His eyes snapped open.

"Luka...you said Jason had a friend who died."

His eyes flickered across to Hazel.

"You said Jason was friends with your son."

He extended a hand elegantly towards them.

"I would like to know more."
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"Not my son", Hazel corrected. "My great grandson... Unfortunately, I have told you everything that I remember about the boy and his friend. I have been unable to recollect anything more since."

She then turned to Stella. "It is quite odd that she denies what I have said, though... perhaps she has just forgotten? In any case, she was not the only person in the room with me." She looked towards Anna now. "I think it is silly for me to lie in any case, however." She shook her head. "I'm not sure if pursuing me is what you wish to be doing... There are other unknowns which are much more concerning at the moment."
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"I didn't deny you said what you said. I said I couldn't corroborate it. I don't have any knowledge of your connection to Jason other than your own story."
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Bad Player wrote:
“By the way, what are Stella and Vivienne’s professions?” Astrid asked.


“I’m certainly neither of the relevant occupations,” Vivienne replied, “Just something of a businesswoman.”
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"Don't we also know from WesleyFactsTM that he never had a high school education? Though that would make it really hard to come up with two more people who attended the school..."
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Maximillion sighed at Hazels response as he scratched his beard. “Hmm a pity, to not even know the name of your great grandson. Indeed with the level of your difficulties, it is hard to believe you could have given any kind of understandable consent to play in these games at all.” He shook his head in sympathy “Unless of course, your fragility is partially a lie? Unfortunately not something that could be proven.”

He shrugged and sidestepped repeatedly to be beside Luka seeing how he was about to repeat himself.

“Luka, dear boy could you tell me more about this friend of Jason’s and the accident he was involved in?”
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