Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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MikeMeekinsFan wrote:
I don't hate them but I'm not fond of them.
They're such a cliched pairing! Rivals falling in love.....become friends and all that Jazz. I don't doubt Edgy is gay though.
They're such a cliched pairing! Rivals falling in love.....become friends and all that Jazz. I don't doubt Edgy is gay though.
Well, you can't exactly just say that. As of 2-4, they aren't rivals. (Hell, as of 1-4) ...if anything, they're closer to partners than anything else. They also do have the most complex and dynamic relationship of the series, and both of them are hugely important to the other--no secret why people pair them.
It's not my favorite, but I do definitely see the reasoning behind it and like it a lot more than, uh, any other pairing involving the two.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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MikeMeekinsFan wrote:
I don't hate them but I'm not fond of them.
This.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
True love is forever.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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But seriously...
They AREN'T rivals. It isn't Harry/Draco, it isn't Cloud/Sephiroth or anything. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't hate each other at all, and if anything the game makes it abundantly clear that they're partners and two halves of the same coin rather than rivals. Phoenix needs Edgeworth and Edgeworth needs Phoenix.
That's hardly a "rival" pairing.
Also, you can be in love with a man without being gay. Which is what it'd be with Phoenix since I agree he's mostly straight.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
It's not my favorite, but I do definitely see the reasoning behind it and like it a lot more than, uh, any other pairing involving the two.
I agree. I don't really see what's in store for Phoenix/Iris.
Spoiler: 3-5
As for Phoenix/Maya, I see where people are coming from here. But, as the wonderful world of literature has taught me, nothing is as it appears, especially when it involves love. For people who read a lot like me, here are some examples:
Harry Potter (Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny)
Wolf Tower (Argul/Claidi)
Eldest (Eragon/Arya) (Hey, I didn't say it ain't gonna work, I'm just saying it's not as it appears)
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
Because you can't beat it!
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CantFaketheFunk wrote:
^ Well that's your own problem. >_>
But seriously...
They AREN'T rivals. It isn't Harry/Draco, it isn't Cloud/Sephiroth or anything. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't hate each other at all, and if anything the game makes it abundantly clear that they're partners and two halves of the same coin rather than rivals. Phoenix needs Edgeworth and Edgeworth needs Phoenix.
That's hardly a "rival" pairing.
Also, you can be in love with a man without being gay. Which is what it'd be with Phoenix since I agree he's mostly straight.
But seriously...
They AREN'T rivals. It isn't Harry/Draco, it isn't Cloud/Sephiroth or anything. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't hate each other at all, and if anything the game makes it abundantly clear that they're partners and two halves of the same coin rather than rivals. Phoenix needs Edgeworth and Edgeworth needs Phoenix.
That's hardly a "rival" pairing.
Also, you can be in love with a man without being gay. Which is what it'd be with Phoenix since I agree he's mostly straight.
There's nothing gay about it
In our eyes~
It's Guy Love
Between two guys~
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I <3 Edgeworth wrote:
I agree. I don't really see what's in store for Phoenix/Iris.
Spoiler: 3-5
Spoiler: 3-5 spoiler
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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FanGuy wrote:
CantFaketheFunk wrote:
^ Well that's your own problem. >_>
But seriously...
They AREN'T rivals. It isn't Harry/Draco, it isn't Cloud/Sephiroth or anything. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't hate each other at all, and if anything the game makes it abundantly clear that they're partners and two halves of the same coin rather than rivals. Phoenix needs Edgeworth and Edgeworth needs Phoenix.
That's hardly a "rival" pairing.
Also, you can be in love with a man without being gay. Which is what it'd be with Phoenix since I agree he's mostly straight.
But seriously...
They AREN'T rivals. It isn't Harry/Draco, it isn't Cloud/Sephiroth or anything. Phoenix and Edgeworth don't hate each other at all, and if anything the game makes it abundantly clear that they're partners and two halves of the same coin rather than rivals. Phoenix needs Edgeworth and Edgeworth needs Phoenix.
That's hardly a "rival" pairing.
Also, you can be in love with a man without being gay. Which is what it'd be with Phoenix since I agree he's mostly straight.
There's nothing gay about it
In our eyes~
It's Guy Love
Between two guys~
Heh, Scrubs FTW.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Edgeworth's sexual orientation is never touched upon. Frankly, I think he's concerned with pretty much everything else in his life and is one of those types that is simply "not interested" in anyone, at least during the time period of the three games. Never does anything he say, to me, suggest that he's attracted to Phoenix. Sometimes he stubbornly thanks Phoenix or whatever, but that's entirely due to him being a hardheaded semi/pseudo/ex-rival that finds it difficult to swallow his pride and admit to being wrong or whatever.
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Justice For All [Mia]
I'll Be There [Phoenix/Maya]
The Samurai Always Wins [Cody]
Decree of the Prosecutor [Edgeworth]
A Guy You Can Trust [Gumshoe]
It's Gotta Be the Butz! [Larry]
Justice For All - Reprise [Phoenix/Mia]
Justice For All [Mia]
I'll Be There [Phoenix/Maya]
The Samurai Always Wins [Cody]
Decree of the Prosecutor [Edgeworth]
A Guy You Can Trust [Gumshoe]
It's Gotta Be the Butz! [Larry]
Justice For All - Reprise [Phoenix/Mia]
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
So moe for Makoto it's funny.
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Just sayin'.
That's how it'd go down with Phoenix, anyway.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Still, I can understand why people love them together.
Pairings: Miego, FeenRis, EdgeyFran, KlavEma, CloTi, Zerith, Vincrecia.
Just a note, all: I haven't been on in a while, so I'm trying to get my little persona here back in order. I won't be on as much in the future, maybe a few times a week. Sorry!
Just a note, all: I haven't been on in a while, so I'm trying to get my little persona here back in order. I won't be on as much in the future, maybe a few times a week. Sorry!
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Boredman wrote:
I generally go with the hetero and canon pairings.
I agree. The only non-heterosexual pairing I like is Franzy and Adrian, and that makes no sense.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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But this ain't the thread for that.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Phoenix, though, is an enigma to me. I don't feel the fact that he
Spoiler: 3-5
Not that anyone's used that reasoning yet, I'm just saying.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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It's not about "rivals"--Phoenix and Edgeworth haven't been rivals since 1-3. It's not about "friends"--the Phoenix and Edgeworth relationship goes beyond what I normally think of as friendship, especially considering the proportionate time they actually spend together.
Phoenix and Edgeworth react to one another more personally and more deeply than anyone else in the game. Don't get me wrong--Maya is absolutely the "person closest to Phoenix", and he risked his life out of love for Iris (in the past, I don't see them as particularly viable romantically in the present), but the bond between Phoenix and Edgeworth is unique and interesting.
Bullet points, because I can:
- Edgeworth pushes Phoenix away in 1-4 because Phoenix is the one he especially didn't want to know about his past. This is after fifteen years.
- Phoenix is territorial and possessive over Edgeworth in a way he isn't any other character in the game. Only he understands Edgeworth. Only he can save Edgeworth. That goes beyond "wanting" to save Edgeworth and right into "I am unique and special to him in a way no one else is"--good thing you were right, stalker.
- Phoenix reacts to Edgeworth's "betrayal" in the second game much more harshly than we see him react to Dollie's betrayal--arguably worse--in GS3. He's also more bitter and has trouble functioning as a lawyer over it. And, finally, he lashes out in a much more personal way when Edgeworth returns. Edgeworth leaving hurt Phoenix. Badly.
- Edgeworth comes running, no matter what the cost could potentially be, whenever Phoenix needs him. Even from the other side of the globe, Edgeworth keeps track of what Phoenix is doing. He also acts like a pissy girlfriend when confronted with Phoenix's ex.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Does all of that have to mean Edgeworth and Phoenix are making out in courthouse janitor closets? Nope. But I think it shows that the two have a relationship--arguably the most complex in the game--that can very easily be read as romantic. Because, let's face it. If Phoenix acted this way towards any of the girls, I'd be shipping him with them...
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Quote:
Turning back to literature, a good example of this is Liir in Son of a Witch. He had a crush on Dorothy, but despite this, he was found deeply in love with another man a little over 200 pages later.
Nice reference quote, there. That is true.
Quote:
- Phoenix is territorial and possessive over Edgeworth in a way he isn't any other character in the game. Only he understands Edgeworth. Only he can save Edgeworth. That goes beyond "wanting" to save Edgeworth and right into "I am unique and special to him in a way no one else is"--good thing you were right, stalker
Also a point fact. Phoenix makes several comments throughout the cases, especially 1-4 and 2-4, about he and Edgeworth to show there is something more than just a friendly relationship between the two.
Oh, BTW: I am not really a fangirl of this kind of thing, but it just seems so right..
My name is Mrs. Galactica Gavin Crescend Engarde Edgeworth. Remember that, and you get a free cookie.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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I'll always love you, Max.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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I do believe you have hit the nail on the head, mi amigo. I think that you've helped me realize what kind of relationship they have, and for that, I thank you. If I could, I would grant you any boon within my power, as is dwarven custom. But alas, I cannot. So you'll just have to make do with my eternal gratitude.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
I can't imagine Phoenix and Edgeworth together. They seem to be just rivals/best friends and nothing more. Same goes for Maya, it's been said more than once in the game about Maya and Phoenix's relationship as just being good friends. Plus, Nick is straight. Yes, yes, you could give me the 'bisexual argument' but it's Capcom. They wouldn't put Phoenix and Edgeworth together. So the Edgeworth and Nick pairing is going to remain nothing more than fan fantasy. I think Nick is going to stay single for the rest of his life until Iris or some other woman-to-be pops in to say hi.
But here's the thing. Phoenix and Maya's relationship has been addressed by the games as "non-romantic", in that the posibility of a romantic pairing has been brought up and shot down more than once. Also, the game hasn't shyed away from talking about m/m relationships, even where Phoenix is concerned. It's just done in the form of a joke--as with Max and Gumshoe.
With Edgeworth, there's absolutely none of that. No teasing jokes where Phoenix can brush it off and say "what are you thinking; of course we're not like that." Nothing about Phoenix thinking about how Edgeworth is like a "brother" to him. Their relationship isn't only deep, it's also the least defined out of all the ones in the game. "Words aren't enough" to express how Phoenix feels in 2-4.
Part of that is probably deliberate pandering in the same sense of "whip lessons" for F/A, vague enough so that there's wiggle room, but still easy to read into. But I find it hard to believe that if Capcom or Takumi really had an issue with fans reading the relationship that way, they wouldn't have made it clear that Phoenix and Edgeworth are "just friends". (And I think they probably would have written Edgeworth differently in 3-5, but perhaps that's just me...)
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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musouka wrote:
chazooma wrote:
I can't imagine Phoenix and Edgeworth together. They seem to be just rivals/best friends and nothing more. Same goes for Maya, it's been said more than once in the game about Maya and Phoenix's relationship as just being good friends. Plus, Nick is straight. Yes, yes, you could give me the 'bisexual argument' but it's Capcom. They wouldn't put Phoenix and Edgeworth together. So the Edgeworth and Nick pairing is going to remain nothing more than fan fantasy. I think Nick is going to stay single for the rest of his life until Iris or some other woman-to-be pops in to say hi.
But here's the thing. Phoenix and Maya's relationship has been addressed by the games as "non-romantic", in that the posibility of a romantic pairing has been brought up and shot down more than once. Also, the game hasn't shyed away from talking about m/m relationships, even where Phoenix is concerned. It's just done in the form of a joke--as with Max and Gumshoe.
With Edgeworth, there's absolutely none of that. No teasing jokes where Phoenix can brush it off and say "what are you thinking; of course we're not like that." Nothing about Phoenix thinking about how Edgeworth is like a "brother" to him. Their relationship isn't only deep, it's also the least defined out of all the ones in the game. "Words aren't enough" to express how Phoenix feels in 2-4.
Part of that is probably deliberate pandering in the same sense of "whip lessons" for F/A, vague enough so that there's wiggle room, but still easy to read into. But I find it hard to believe that if Capcom or Takumi really had an issue with fans reading the relationship that way, they wouldn't have made it clear that Phoenix and Edgeworth are "just friends". (And I think they probably would have written Edgeworth differently in 3-5, but perhaps that's just me...)
I don't see the deep bond having any romance. If you know a good friend well, chances are you know her/him better than most people, but that doesn't mean there's romance involved. I think Capcom is secretly teasing and not shooting down fanfics for some peoples' enjoyment. You have to admit, there's really no way Capcom is ever going to make this pairing official as you said, by the games. If they did, no doubt it would be banned from a few countries and cause sales to drop. So that's a risk no one's willing to take. I have to admit though, this pairing is going to hang in the air until Capcom shoots it or fans stop fantasizing (<<this right here is never going to happen). No matter how many debates, or arguments, there are going to be two sides to this pairing. I'm on the 'not possible' side. In fact, I don't even think Nick is going to ever get married.
Spoiler:
Last edited by chazooma on Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Listen...Edgey and Phoenix were childhood friends. I'm not saying that automatically makes them good together. It's just that...Phoenix constantly worries about Edgey and makes sure he's okay. He even jumped at the chance to defend him in AA case 4.
There are so many canon hints, too...such as Phoenix looking at Edgey and thinking "This case has brought pain to so many people...it's time to put it to an end."
I dunno. I see them as a canon couple. I love them together. I will ship them forever.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
I don't see the deep bond having any romance. If you know a good friend well, chances are you know her/him better than most people, but that doesn't mean there's romance involved.
But I would never say "I'm the ONLY person that understands my friend." That's going from "I understand this person" to putting myself forward as someone central to their lives. Their only ally. The only one that understands them. Phoenix is basically saying "I am special to Edgeworth in a way no one else is", which is pretty arrogant to say about someone he hasn't seen in over fifteen years and who hasn't wanted to even talk to him for the last three.
No, the pairing is never going to be canon. Neither will Phoenix/Maya. Or Phoenix/Iris. Or Edgeworth/Franziska.
All I'm saying is that reading their relationship as having romantic potential is very plausible when you look at the way they react to one another. Official art like this helps. I think that's the single most "romantic" artwork on Phoenix's end I've seen.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Headshot.
Also, once again:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GAY TO BE IN LOVE WITH A MEMBER OF THE SAME SEX. JEEZY CREEZY PEOPLE.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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chazooma wrote:
musouka wrote:
chazooma wrote:
Right now, he seems content mentoring Apollo and raising Trucy.
... I think that should be in spoiler tags.. >_O... *was spoiled*
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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Quote:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GAY TO BE IN LOVE WITH A MEMBER OF THE SAME SEX. JEEZY CREEZY PEOPLE.
Really??? Isn't that the definition of 'gay?' The only other option I would see is "bi-sexual."
But I agree that they are not a canon pairing.
I have best friends of the same gender who live far away that I would drop everything for to help in a heartbeat if they needed me. The last time I checked that didn't make me gay. I honestly think that Phoenix is probably just the first true friend that Edgeworth ever had, and that kind of friendship honestly can be just as strong as being in love.
Best friends often are tough on new and former love interest to look out for each other. I think this is the same thing Edgeworth was doing in 3-4.
Is Edgeworth gay? I dunno. But Phoenix sure isn't.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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"Doesn't mean Phoenix has a preference for men if he likes Edgeworth" is what CFtF meant, prolly.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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musouka wrote:
chazooma wrote:
I don't see the deep bond having any romance. If you know a good friend well, chances are you know her/him better than most people, but that doesn't mean there's romance involved.
But I would never say "I'm the ONLY person that understands my friend." That's going from "I understand this person" to putting myself forward as someone central to their lives. Their only ally. The only one that understands them. Phoenix is basically saying "I am special to Edgeworth in a way no one else is", which is pretty arrogant to say about someone he hasn't seen in over fifteen years and who hasn't wanted to even talk to him for the last three.
No, the pairing is never going to be canon. Neither will Phoenix/Maya. Or Phoenix/Iris. Or Edgeworth/Franziska.
All I'm saying is that reading their relationship as having romantic potential is very plausible when you look at the way they react to one another. Official art like this helps. I think that's the single most "romantic" artwork on Phoenix's end I've seen.
I don't see any romance at all. When your friend has doom and gloom written all over his/her face, of course you're going to worry. There's romantic potential between every person to another. It's just how much. The bottom line is, I don't think Phoenix and Edgworth are ever going to be a couple, and there's really no romance involved anyway. I'm too tired to debate more, so I'm going to go and take a nap.
Oh, and sorry Aevitas, I put it into a tag. Oops.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
I have best friends of the same gender who live far away that I would drop everything for to help in a heartbeat if they needed me.
Dare I assume you've known these friends for more than a year when you were in grade school, and that you've kept in regular contact with them?
ff3girl wrote:
The last time I checked that didn't make me gay. I honestly think that Phoenix is probably just the first true friend that Edgeworth ever had, and that kind of friendship honestly can be just as strong as being in love.
No, it doesn't make you gay, but we're not discussing you. It's like me using a hypothetical example where "I changed my major for the guy I'm in love with, therefore Phoenix is in love with Edgeworth". It doesn't work. The situations aren't comparible.
ff3girl wrote:
Best friends often are tough on new and former love interest to look out for each other. I think this is the same thing Edgeworth was doing in 3-4.
Except he wasn't tough on Iris at all. He was nearly as protective of her as Phoenix was.
ff3girl wrote:
But Phoenix sure isn't.
Which has nothing to do with them in a relationship.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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I also think it's very true that you can be in love with someone of the same sex and not be homosexual. It's the same thing as having a non-romantic soul mate. Like it's been stated, being in love with someone is most commonly used as romantic or a sexual attraction but it's not necessarily always the case. I think I have a love like that with a certain someone, but I've known this person since the day I was born. We keep each other in check, we support each other and it actually hurts to be apart from each other. Now, do I want to get married and make lesiban babies with her? ...::shudders:: That's probably the most disgusting thing I could ever imagine ... ... She's my sister
I do have to admit that it is unique that Phoenix and Edgey became so close after a few months time .... Maybe it's because Edgey doesn't have any other friends!
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
Quote:
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GAY TO BE IN LOVE WITH A MEMBER OF THE SAME SEX. JEEZY CREEZY PEOPLE.
Really??? Isn't that the definition of 'gay?' The only other option I would see is "bi-sexual."
No, the definition of 'gay' is being attracted to members of the same sex because they're members of the same sex, the way that a straight man is attracted to women or a straight woman is attracted to men.
Assuming a relationship sparks between Phoenix and Edgeworth... it's not because Phoenix wants Edgey's cock or likes teh buttsex. It's not because Edgeworth is male. It'd be because Edgeworth is EDGEWORTH, and the physical aspect would be far secondary to the mental one.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
...experience the joy each day can bring
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Spoiler: just to save space on quoting..
On the first point, fair enough. I have known these friend for quite a while. I think though, that certain situations in life can push you very close together in an extremely short amount of time. I have no doubt that Phoenix and Edgeworth felt a very close bond after Phoenix defended him in court. True, they don't keep in regular contact, and Phoenix gets pretty pissy about it later on! I also have some relatives that, although I don't speak with them regularly, I still love them enough to drop everything. Maybe that would be a more accurate kind of description of their relationship?
One the second point... I'm confused, because to me that is a very comparable example. Phoenix = me, my friends=Edgeworth.
Third point--Yeah, I must have remembered wrong here. My bad. The only thing Edgeworth pretty much says is that her and Phoenix care about each other and she should tell him her secret.
CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Assuming a relationship sparks between Phoenix and Edgeworth... it's not because Phoenix wants Edgey's cock or likes teh buttsex. It's not because Edgeworth is male. It'd be because Edgeworth is EDGEWORTH, and the physical aspect would be far secondary to the mental one.
I still disagree. I think in order for any kind of romantic relationship to develop, there would have to be physical attraction as well. True, this can't be the foundation of the relationship, but I believe it is necessary for a romantic relationship.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Hell, it's not like people are either 100% gay or 100% straight. Nobody is.
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Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgeworth)
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ff3girl wrote:
CantFaketheFunk wrote:
Assuming a relationship sparks between Phoenix and Edgeworth... it's not because Phoenix wants Edgey's cock or likes teh buttsex. It's not because Edgeworth is male. It'd be because Edgeworth is EDGEWORTH, and the physical aspect would be far secondary to the mental one.
I still disagree. I think in order for any kind of romantic relationship to develop, there would have to be physical attraction as well. True, this can't be the foundation of the relationship, but I believe it is necessary for a romantic relationship.
You actually believe that in order for a strong, emtional relationship to develop, physical attraction is needed? I'm afriad I have to disagree. It may be needed in some cases, but I don't think here. I think for a romantic/intimate relationship to come about, physical attraction would be a factor, but unless I should be declared legally blind, CantFaketheFunk says nothing about a romantic relationship. All he says is relationship. I'm not saying that I believe an intimate relationship would develop between the two, because as of this moment, I don't believe one is possible. I do, however, believe that the two can have a relationship that is more than friends. And since the English language lacks an accurate word for such a relationship, aforementioned relationship can only be called love.
Re: Why do you love/hate them together? (Phoenix and Edgewor
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Stereo wrote:
I dunno, I've always been against the whole rivals-in-love thing. Like Harry and Draco, Cloud and Sephiroth, or Optimus Prime and Megatron (Do...do they even...have...*Motions downward*) . Unless it's hatesex...
Yeah, I really just like my hero and villians to have a grudging respect for one another but mostly can't stand each other. What fun would Transformers (G1) be if Op and Megs were buddy with one another? Or how good would the final battle in Advent Children be if Seph and Cloud were on friendly terms?
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