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To my dearest Wendy...
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...where did Franziska get Juan's autograph (made out to Wendy), and why did she throw it at you? More importantly the first half, I don't get why that autograph exists.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Last edited by Gourry on Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Master of sharp things!
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Oldbag, being the star-struck woman she is, used her position as a security guard to get into Corrida's room. From there, she asked him to sign her an autograph, and to give it to her when she came back. Corrida was murdered before he could give it to her, and Franziska eventually found it while rummaging through his room. As she didn't see it as important evidence, she "gave" it to Phoenix to get it out of her posession.
The autograph simply exists just to make the Oldbag plotpoint work, not much else, really.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Friendly Neighborhood Naruhodou
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When Phoenix gives the autograph to Oldbag, he clearly thinks (wait, is that possible?) that the autograph is not for her.
:Yes, but that is just speculation. Do you have any proof?
Still, I think its pretty well established that the autograph just happened to be what Franziska picked up, basically at random. It's up in the air as to whether it was written for Oldbag.
...
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
...
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Blademaster_Orca wrote:
I don't know if they ever explain the hows and whys of the autograph, but I understood it is such:
Oldbag, being the star-struck woman she is, used her position as a security guard to get into Corrida's room. From there, she asked him to sign her an autograph, and to give it to her when she came back. Corrida was murdered before he could give it to her, and Franziska eventually found it while rummaging through his room. As she didn't see it as important evidence, she "gave" it to Phoenix to get it out of her posession.
Oldbag, being the star-struck woman she is, used her position as a security guard to get into Corrida's room. From there, she asked him to sign her an autograph, and to give it to her when she came back. Corrida was murdered before he could give it to her, and Franziska eventually found it while rummaging through his room. As she didn't see it as important evidence, she "gave" it to Phoenix to get it out of her posession.
That's what I figured as well.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Re: To my dearest Wendy...
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
fwee
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Croik wrote:
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
*tries not to think of what that could imply*
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Holding the Mega Drive controller!
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Croik wrote:
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
But he was created after GS2 was made so that gets rid of the possibility that it wasn't for
, slightly mind. But that is a scary thought know!
Plus why does the chef have a girls name?
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
nuuuuu, stoooooop
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Re: To my dearest Wendy...
I Kill Threads
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Croik wrote:
Kaoru is a little more gender ambiguous as far as names go, I think....?
I've never heard Kaoru used for a male
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
VERA LOOK
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Shnooks wrote:
I've never heard Kaoru used for a male
You're not otaku enough. *erhemOuranKoukouHostCluberhem*
Maybe Oldbag didn't ask. Maybe Corrida fell in love with her and planned to give it to her as a surprise. XDDDDD
We'll never know...
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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1. She actually wanted to help Phoenix out. Kinda like how Edgeworth wanted to help Phoenix in the last game.
Or, the more likely theory...
2. Franziska threw Phoenix a bone so that he would have a fighting chance against her. The autograph would get Oldbag talking. (Maybe Franziska wrote the "Wendy" part! :Q) Franziska wants to win cases, but she would never want it to be a cakewalk.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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: MY name is Wendy Cook'ums <3
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Just like how in Japanese it was most likely for another Kaouru. Who knows?
I think my ideas more plausable though.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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LoG wrote:
What I figured was Franny whipped the table in rage, it knocked the autograph off. I bet that autograph was for another Wendy.
Just like how in Japanese it was most likely for another Kaouru. Who knows?
I think my ideas more plausable though.
Just like how in Japanese it was most likely for another Kaouru. Who knows?
I think my ideas more plausable though.
Yeah, that's definately it. You would have to be out of your mind to give your autograph to some old bitch who drones on and on about crap.
WHAT DID YOU SAY?I SAID YOU'RE AN OLD BITCH WHO DRONES ON AND ON ABOUT CRAP!
Oh, ok...
I yell "OBJECTION!" in the court sometimes!
Last edited by Chinese Infantry on Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Work is obviously affecting me.
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Croik wrote:
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
HyperJerk wrote:
: MY name is Wendy Cook'ums <3*SCREEEEEEEEEAM*
This is easily the most terrifying idea ever. Though I think it's fairly probable that
would be a fan of The Juan.
Aren't they beautiful? <3
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Friendly Neighborhood Naruhodou
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Z3r02007 wrote:
the more likely theory...
2. Franziska threw Phoenix a bone so that he would have a fighting chance against her. The autograph would get Oldbag talking. (Maybe Franziska wrote the "Wendy" part! :Q) Franziska wants to win cases, but she would never want it to be a cakewalk.
2. Franziska threw Phoenix a bone so that he would have a fighting chance against her. The autograph would get Oldbag talking. (Maybe Franziska wrote the "Wendy" part! :Q) Franziska wants to win cases, but she would never want it to be a cakewalk.
Let's consider this.
Knowing that the autograph would help Phoenix is an improbable feat; one would have to know that Wendy is a gushing Juan Corrida Fangirl and that she wouldn't talk until Phoenix gave her something, then make the connection of the autograph. This seems quite complex for a plan to help your opponent. But, of course, perfection is the only fate for a von Karma
, so it is quite plausible that Franziska would have known exactly what she was doing in throwing that autograph.Franziska's motivation is even less clear. Why would she help Phoenix? It seems plausible that, just as her father did, she wants to show her superiority (remember the several instances in case 1-4 when von Karma let Phoenix do [whatever] because he wanted to show the futility of resistance). But her motivation is (just slightly) more complex than that: she wants to show everyone her superiority; she wants everyone to know that she defeated Phoenix Wright, even though she helped him in the trial. The appearance of perfection is what counts (consider Manfred's behavior; everyone knew he was using forged evidence, but the spot on his record was drove him to kill). Throwing Phoenix the autograph was a very subtle way of helping him. Franziska, I think, would be much more likely to give Phoenix a fighting chance by giving allowances in court to publicly humiliate him.
I stand by my opinion that the autograph was picked up completely at random as one of those coincidences that seem to by so common in the PW universe.
...
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
ăƒăƒ¼ă‚«ăƒ©ă‚¤ă‚¶ăƒ¼
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RadioShadow wrote:
But he was created after GS2 was made so that gets rid of the possibility that it wasn't for , slightly mind.
, slightly mind.Then again, isn't it mentioned in the end of PW1 that his restaurant, Très Bien, is opening soon? After one year, anything's possible...
(Not really. I suppose I just felt like pointing that out
)
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Although, it DOES raise about 5u29353 questions.
...None of which I have real answers to except "LOL IT'S A VIDEO GAME THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT" which is a poor excuse at best.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Err, I REALLY think it was just a deux ex machina situation xD;
You win for using the phrase "deux ex machina" (and aptly, at that). One of my favorite literary terms ever.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Plankton614 wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:
But he was created after GS2 was made so that gets rid of the possibility that it wasn't for , slightly mind.
, slightly mind.Then again, isn't it mentioned in the end of PW1 that his restaurant, Très Bien, is opening soon? After one year, anything's possible...
(Not really. I suppose I just felt like pointing that out
)AA: Case 5 was made after GS3, actually. So all sorts of little easter eggs were put in to allude to the future games.
As for the note, I think it was simply chance. Franziska just picked up a random scrap of paper and threw it. It just happened to be the autograph directed at a girl named Wendy/Kaoru. Wendy/Kaoru is a common enough name, so it was probably to a different girl. Or if it was for
, which I highly doubt, Juan probably had no idea what she looked like and was only reading her fan letters which were surely very flattering. But I still believe it was for another Wendy/Kaoru.
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Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Android 21 3/7 wrote:
As for the note, I think it was simply chance. Franziska just picked up a random scrap of paper and threw it. It just happened to be the autograph directed at a girl named Wendy/Kaoru. Wendy/Kaoru is a common enough name, so it was probably to a different girl. Or if it was for , which I highly doubt, Juan probably had no idea what she looked like and was only reading her fan letters which were surely very flattering. But I still believe it was for another Wendy/Kaoru.
, which I highly doubt, Juan probably had no idea what she looked like and was only reading her fan letters which were surely very flattering. But I still believe it was for another Wendy/Kaoru.Except if it was for someone else, she wouldn't have any reason to be super-pissed about it, or to be overly happy about recieving it, either. Her joy in recieving it makes it fairly clear that the autograph was for her. It's the way she got him to make it for her is the real mystery, though she probably snuck into his room and hit on him until he promised her one so she'd go away. >_>;
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Blademaster_Orca wrote:
Her joy in recieving it makes it fairly clear that the autograph was for her.
Hmm... I always read it that she convinced herself the autograph was for her, just because her name was written on it.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Pineapple Box wrote:
Blademaster_Orca wrote:
Her joy in recieving it makes it fairly clear that the autograph was for her.
Hmm... I always read it that she convinced herself the autograph was for her, just because her name was written on it.
That's the impression I got too, mainly because her reaction to it seemed...surprised? Not to mention she said something along the lines of "My name's Wendy, so that autograph must have been for me, right?!" meaning she really had no idea who the autograph was for and just wanted it.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
I came, I saw, I left
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Plankton614 wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
Err, I REALLY think it was just a deux ex machina situation xD;
You win for using the phrase "deux ex machina" (and aptly, at that). One of my favorite literary terms ever.
*bubble-bursting*
It's deus ex machina, so the use wasn't COMPLETELY apt.
But still, thanks for saying it, it truly is an awesome literary term.
*warning: Oldbag moment, helps if you read this thought fast*
I used the phrase 'deus ex machina' in my coursework piece for original writing in GCSE English and got an A* for the piece. Whether I actually wrote a good story or whether the examiner's sheet just has certain phrases that if the candiate uses, she/he automatically gets an A* remains to be seen.
Anyway...ON-TOPIC. I just assumed that the autograph was for any old Wendy, Franziska just grabbed the first thing she could find to throw at Phoenix (would've more fun if it was Juan's hairdryer, but still) and then Phoenix happened to able to use it to proceed. It's a little deus ex machina, but then there often are many of them in adventure games (the Monkey Island series springs to mind here).
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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I-Object wrote:
Plankton614 wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
Err, I REALLY think it was just a deux ex machina situation xD;
You win for using the phrase "deux ex machina" (and aptly, at that). One of my favorite literary terms ever.
*bubble-bursting*
It's deus ex machina, so the use wasn't COMPLETELY apt.
But still, thanks for saying it, it truly is an awesome literary term.
*warning: Oldbag moment, helps if you read this thought fast*
I used the phrase 'deus ex machina' in my coursework piece for original writing in GCSE English and got an A* for the piece. Whether I actually wrote a good story or whether the examiner's sheet just has certain phrases that if the candiate uses, she/he automatically gets an A* remains to be seen.
Anyway...ON-TOPIC. I just assumed that the autograph was for any old Wendy, Franziska just grabbed the first thing she could find to throw at Phoenix (would've more fun if it was Juan's hairdryer, but still) and then Phoenix happened to able to use it to proceed. It's a little deus ex machina, but then there often are many of them in adventure games (the Monkey Island series springs to mind here).
Ah, thank you for the correction.
But why would Franziska throw something at Phoenix? Considering she has a whip, and all o.o
Anyway, I still stand by my dues ex machina explanation...after all, there have been much bigger coincidences in the series like
Spoiler: 1-5
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
I came, I saw, I left
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Ah, thank you for the correction.
But why would Franziska throw something at Phoenix? Considering she has a whip, and all o.o
Anyway, I still stand by my dues ex machina explanation...after all, there have been much bigger coincidences in the series like
But why would Franziska throw something at Phoenix? Considering she has a whip, and all o.o
Anyway, I still stand by my dues ex machina explanation...after all, there have been much bigger coincidences in the series like
Spoiler: 1-5
You really mean that ('ah, thank you for the correction)...I felt I was just being annoying and kind of rude.
And I don't know why she would suddenly decided to stop with the whipping and start with the throwing. And why an autograph? That wouldn't cause anyone much pain at all! Try better next time, Ms Von Karma.
And I agree, video games especially are full of deus ex machinas (can you make it plural?)...especially this series, it would seem.
But then it is 'turnabout courtroom' after all...often with things coming out of nowhere to turn the cases around, so why not the investigations and so on?
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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I-Object wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
Ah, thank you for the correction.
But why would Franziska throw something at Phoenix? Considering she has a whip, and all o.o
Anyway, I still stand by my dues ex machina explanation...after all, there have been much bigger coincidences in the series like
But why would Franziska throw something at Phoenix? Considering she has a whip, and all o.o
Anyway, I still stand by my dues ex machina explanation...after all, there have been much bigger coincidences in the series like
Spoiler: 1-5
You really mean that ('ah, thank you for the correction)...I felt I was just being annoying and kind of rude.
And I don't know why she would suddenly decided to stop with the whipping and start with the throwing. And why an autograph? That wouldn't cause anyone much pain at all! Try better next time, Ms Von Karma.
And I agree, video games especially are full of deus ex machinas (can you make it plural?)...especially this series, it would seem.
But then it is 'turnabout courtroom' after all...often with things coming out of nowhere to turn the cases around, so why not the investigations and so on?
You weren't rude at all, I like being corrected because it means I won't make the mistake in the future ^^
I...guess whether it could be made plural or not depends on whether it's a noun or an adjective? o.o (like, "deus ex machina" could become "deus ex machinas" whereas "deus ex machina situation" would become "deus ex machina situations"...?") ...I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, someone please correct me? o.o
Ah, that's a good point that I never thought of...The biggest coincidence is probably that Phoenix's trials are all murder cases in which the defendant is innocent and the logic that proves this is way out there. Which, of course, makes sense for gameplay purposes.
...Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest question about the autograph is probably "Why does that part exist at all?"
1. There were probably other ways to get Oldbag to talk that make more sense.
2. You didn't really need Oldbag to talk at all. All she tells you is that she saw Enguarde coming out of Juan's room. You don't use that information at all until court time after she repeats it.
...This scene is just making less and less sense the more we talk about it xD;
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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SilverZephyr wrote:
I...guess whether it could be made plural or not depends on whether it's a noun or an adjective? o.o (like, "deus ex machina" could become "deus ex machinas" whereas "deus ex machina situation" would become "deus ex machina situations"...?") ...I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, someone please correct me? o.o
It's an noun in itself, but I have never taken Latin, so I have no idea how they pluralise. If that's a word.
Quote:
Ah, that's a good point that I never thought of...The biggest coincidence is probably that Phoenix's trials are all murder cases in which the defendant is innocent and the logic that proves this is way out there. Which, of course, makes sense for gameplay purposes.
Spoiler:
Quote:
...Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest question about the autograph is probably "Why does that part exist at all?"
1. There were probably other ways to get Oldbag to talk that make more sense.
2. You didn't really need Oldbag to talk at all. All she tells you is that she saw Enguarde coming out of Juan's room. You don't use that information at all until court time after she repeats it.
...This scene is just making less and less sense the more we talk about it xD;
1. There were probably other ways to get Oldbag to talk that make more sense.
2. You didn't really need Oldbag to talk at all. All she tells you is that she saw Enguarde coming out of Juan's room. You don't use that information at all until court time after she repeats it.
...This scene is just making less and less sense the more we talk about it xD;
Yeah, there was really no reason for Oldbag to have a Psyche-Lock at all. It just added more of them into that investigation. Wow, we've really torn this scene apart now.
And, regardless of whether the autograph WAS for Oldbag herself or not, couldn't she have simply gotten her own autograph? I mean I know she's a bit of a fangirl towards Juan Corrida, but she could still have asked for one, even if she did all giggly or whatever. But then that would render Phoenix getting her one pointless. And it would destory the fabric of that entire case! Or...not.
OK, I'm done.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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I-Object wrote:
SilverZephyr wrote:
I...guess whether it could be made plural or not depends on whether it's a noun or an adjective? o.o (like, "deus ex machina" could become "deus ex machinas" whereas "deus ex machina situation" would become "deus ex machina situations"...?") ...I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, someone please correct me? o.o
It's an noun in itself, but I have never taken Latin, so I have no idea how they pluralise. If that's a word.
Well, if we're going to go by the Latin... "dei ex machinae", would be the correct plural, I believe.
Anyway.
I... actually never thought that much about this scene, but now that we're ripping it apart....
I really truly think it was just something Capcom threw in there to be cute/obnoxious (i.e., "Oh, look at all the psyche-locks, woe is you, player! Oh, wait, just give Oldbag the pretty piece of paper and they all break! LOLPSYCHE." *shot*)
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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SilverZephyr wrote:
Pineapple Box wrote:
Blademaster_Orca wrote:
Her joy in recieving it makes it fairly clear that the autograph was for her.
Hmm... I always read it that she convinced herself the autograph was for her, just because her name was written on it.
That's the impression I got too, mainly because her reaction to it seemed...surprised? Not to mention she said something along the lines of "My name's Wendy, so that autograph must have been for me, right?!" meaning she really had no idea who the autograph was for and just wanted it.
Huh, I always figured that she "asked" for the autograph, but Corrida was murdered before he got it to her, making her fangirling pointless, and thus strongly upsetting her. The psyche-locks were probably for her not to tell anyone what she did, since it would be pretty selfish to still expect an autograph after he kicked the bucket and all.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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LoG wrote:
What I figured was Franny whipped the table in rage, it knocked the autograph off. I bet that autograph was for another Wendy.
Just like how in Japanese it was most likely for another Kaouru. Who knows?
I think my ideas more plausable though.
Just like how in Japanese it was most likely for another Kaouru. Who knows?
I think my ideas more plausable though.
i think this is the best assumption. the autograph was merely an excuse to prolong the investigation.
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Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Z3r02007 wrote:
See, the autograph thing says one of two things about Franziska.
1. She actually wanted to help Phoenix out. Kinda like how Edgeworth wanted to help Phoenix in the last game.
Or, the more likely theory...
2. Franziska threw Phoenix a bone so that he would have a fighting chance against her. The autograph would get Oldbag talking. (Maybe Franziska wrote the "Wendy" part! :Q) Franziska wants to win cases, but she would never want it to be a cakewalk.
1. She actually wanted to help Phoenix out. Kinda like how Edgeworth wanted to help Phoenix in the last game.
Or, the more likely theory...
2. Franziska threw Phoenix a bone so that he would have a fighting chance against her. The autograph would get Oldbag talking. (Maybe Franziska wrote the "Wendy" part! :Q) Franziska wants to win cases, but she would never want it to be a cakewalk.
Franziska Even Didn't Know that Phoenix Could Find Information by Using Magatama...Why Von Karma Give it to Phoenix?And It Can't Be Used As Evidence too(For What?)...
[/URL]
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Croik wrote:
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
In the Japanese, it was addressed to Kaoru (Oldbag's Japanese first name).
Hondobou's first name is also Kaoru.
But that implies by putting "to my dearest" on it then corrida is....
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
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Wow I had never really considered these possibilities before...Anyway, there are several thoughts that I wish to put out: First, is the signature on a piece of paper? I always thought that it was in a frame or something...
Second, I think that they only put it in to take down Wendy's oh-so-hidden secret in a humorous way. It made me laugh, at least.
And third, this is in response to the theory where she asks for an autograph and then leaves- I strongly doubt that she would ask for her dream man's signature and then walk away, especially considering it would have taken him about five seconds to make. She certainly was a bit of a slacker on her job as it was, what with waiting in front of his room while she was supposed to have been on guard duty...Yeah, I definatly think that she would have been able to make the wait for his name.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Arutica: Attorney at NYAAH
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But I think she probably just wanted to throw something at Phoenix and it happened to be an autograph signed for another Wendy.
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Gender: None specified
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Ms Wendy Oldbag was like screeching to Lotta Hart or herself : "OMGOSH, JUAN IS RIGHT HERE RIGHT INSIDE THIS ROOM~!!! I LOVE JUAN, I WISH HE CAN GIVE ME HIS AUTOGRAPH JUST FOR ME."
Lotta Hart: What? and have him write "To Ms Oldbag?"
Oldbag: WHIPPER SNAPPER! NOT JUST ANY BORING TO? HE SHALL WRITE TO *eyes sparkling* "[b]TO DEAREST WENDY~[b/]"
Juan *door open just a little bit because of the yelling.* Hmm, it's nice of her to acknowledge me instead of that Matts. Maybe I can give her my autograph... *sign card*
sorry for caps, but I figure it's so in character for Oldbag to screech at fast speed =D
Re: To my dearest Wendy...
Live life to the full
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Plankton614 wrote:
RadioShadow wrote:
But he was created after GS2 was made so that gets rid of the possibility that it wasn't for , slightly mind.
, slightly mind.Then again, isn't it mentioned in the end of PW1 that his restaurant, Très Bien, is opening soon? After one year, anything's possible...
(Not really. I suppose I just felt like pointing that out
)You're referring to 'Rise from the Ashes, which, if you recall, was added to the DS remake of GS1. By this time GS3 was already out. The reason the following remakes were made was because of Ace Attorney's popularity overseas. It's also why when Edgeworth returns in Justice for All, explaining his experiences, he does not mention that case.
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