Is it OK to debate KristoVi yet?

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I don't know if crack pairings are allowed in the debate thread.

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Oh, very funny Mr. Violpollo.

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Apollo / Trucy

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Re: X : When I played through the first game (and the subsequent ones), I was of the opinion that Edgeworth was pretty clearly written as a gay character. I marvelled at how progressive Capcom must be to include gay character(s) in their game (that hasn't been done before, has it?) even if they didn't come right out and state it. In the same way that Metroid sneaked a female action hero past all the male gamers who might not be ready for that, Capcom made a "gay lawyer" game. It never occured to me that it wasn't intentional, although now I see that it might not have been.

Phoenix obviously has some very intense feelings about Edgeworth, and although I don't necessarily see Phoenix's character as gay, it's hard to imagine someone plotting their career around reconnecting with a friend they weren't in love with. Once I looked at the fansites for the game, I was surprised to see that anyone DIDN'T pick up on it.

The main problem I see with the X pairing is that Phoenix is written as an adult and Maya is written as a child. The age difference isn't a problem per se; I could see Maya with someone like Larry, who may be an adult but is written as immature. But Phoenix and Maya's dynamic is more brother/sister or even parent/child.

Just my two cents about the whole pairing thing.

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Spoiler: Apollo X Trucy:

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Fair enough, you're right about what Trucy said.

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IT'S TIEM FOR A NEW PAIRING, KIDDIES!!!!

x


LOL JUST KIDDING I'M NOT PERVERTED.

x

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I think the main problem with Edgeworth x Franziska is that she looks down on him. I mean, if you're willing to ignore technicalities enough to call your adoptive brother - who also happens to be seven years your senior - your 'little brother' then I think that isn't showing much respect for the other party. Personally, I'm impartial to E x F; I don't like it nor do I dislike it. But I do agree that they have potential in the neutral eye, but I myself cannot see it as anything beyond a sibling relationship, just like Phoenix x Maya.

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I think to them, their relationship is one of siblings. She calls him "little brother", and he talks to her much more like a sister than like a love interest. For most of her life, she's been there as an older sibling figure (and pretty much nobody remembers things that happened before they were two years old, so all of her life that she can remember), and she was young enough when he met her that he'd have seen her grow up all of her life, which would make it difficult to have romantic feelings for her even now that they're both adults. Like seriously, Westermarck Effect. I don't know if von Karma actually adopted Edgeworth or not, but just because they're not related by blood doesn't mean that they aren't family.
It's not my cup of tea either way, but as long as people admit that even though Fran and Edgey aren't biologically related, they probably feel like they are and there would be an immense amount of guilt over liking each other That Way and issues to get through if they wanted to have a relationship, then I'm okay with it. If the shippers act like adopted siblings aren't siblings, that kinda makes me cringe.

Because posting an independent thread would be against current policy, and it's insanely difficult to discuss anything in this thread without being off-topic, I may as well go ahead and post my thoughts on Ema Skye and Miles Edgeworth.

These writings were first posted on the old forums of CR during the recent downtime. - Link

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The Fangirl Factor
When it comes to pairing characters, fans have a tendency to "imprint" somewhat on their chosen protagonists, if not go so far as to create a self-insertion. Ema is distinct in being something of an embodiment of fan sentiments towards Miles. Some people enjoy this sense of fulfillment-by-proxy, especially when it is perpetrated by a canon character.

Even those who don't like the self-fulfillment so much, there is something to be said for the fairy tale elements of Ema being able to follow and even join with her idol and role model in the world of law.

Scared Straight
Ema also deserves some recognition as being one of the few relatively viable heterosexual pairings for Miles. It's quite established that Miles is more than a little reserved in personal relationships, with either gender. There is, however, something in Ema's demeanor that makes her a mirror to the premier pairing of Phoenix and Miles: Ema shares Phoenix's willingness to believe in Miles Edgeworth.

Although Phoenix is merely holding on to childhood memories, Ema has more recent acquaintance with Miles, especially chronicling the critical two-year gap in which Miles became the "Demon Prosecutor" he is. Even when confronted with his cold, pre 1-4 persona, Ema still held him in high regards. Considering her proximity to her sister, and her sister's deep involvement with the law, it is reasonable to presume Ema didn't have too distorted an image of the man, even if she had never set foot in his office (in fact it can be construed she had such a high image of him she never expected the opulence she witnessed in 1-5's investigation).

The Parallel Pairing
Some people have posited Ema as being a literal Maya replacement or parallel, though it is evident that she was not meant specifically to be Phoenix's assistant, rather Miles'. She is, after all, working hard to become a detective for the prosecution (and achieves this to some degree of success).

Some might say that Miles already has adequate assistance in the form of Dick Gumshoe, though at the same time it's widely agreed that Gumshoe is anything but adequate. While Gyakuten Kenji may shed more light on their partnership, it's still necessary to consider partners that can intellectually match Miles, since it is obvious that being able to meet him at the same mental level is a requisite to knowing him intimately.

It's debatable whether Ema is able to do this, considering her age and maturity. Consider her level of education: at fifteen/sixteen years of age, she is already a high school junior. Consider her upbringing: she was raised by the level-headed, warm and patient Lana Skye. Consider how Ema held out for her sister in the two years since SL-9. Consider how she'll have to hold out for her while waiting for her prison term to end.

Drawing Lines Around the Edge
Another obvious hot-button issue concerning all pairings involving Miles Edgeworth is that of his sexual preference. A great many people tend to consider him homosexual on the basis of many things: his reserved mannerisms; the way he is particular about his presentation; the emotional turmoil just beneath the surface... To attribute these to homosexuality is to dehumanize a great rest of the cast.

Indeed, from the beginning, Miles is painted as a trouble character finally coming to terms with his internalized negativity. This makes him socially awkward and somewhat aloof compared to other characters. Indeed, a great amount of his eccentricity was even inborn, his desire to emulate his mentors having been present since childhood: he aspired to be much like his father to the point of emulating his dress and presentation, and later he would adopt Manfred von Karma's image for his own. Miles has always been in a journey to rediscover himself, and this is something that is part of his character regardless of his sexual preference.

E²
And to bring this post full circle, this is another distinction that can also be granted to the pairing: Miles and Ema reaffirm each other's existences and ways of life. Phoenix demands to know what happened to his friend, possibly change him for the better. Franziska wants to hold him down only to ensure her own life isn't empty. Maya would simply impose herself upon him. While she knows little more than the rest of these potential suitors about who Miles is on the inside, Ema only asks Miles to be who he is.

It may seem strange to support an affection born of attraction to an outside persona, but remember that this is same outward personality persists throughout the following years. Miles is still a reserved, charismatic man with a passion for law, and that is the man Ema first knew and loved, regardless of what changes had been going on inside him. She may even regard him as a mystery waiting to be solved, and the satisfaction of understanding his inner workings is, scientifically speaking, all she needs to feel fulfilled.

On the same token, it's inevitable that Miles will and does go through internal changes, and it's simply a fan's choice as to what the catalyst of this change is.

Ema presents to Miles a nonjudgmental demand on his character, which could perhaps be the best sort of demand, as it presents Miles the natural choice he would have to make anyways: what sort of person does he want to be? How far is he willing to deviate from his old ways? What Miles can see in Ema is an opportunity for repentance, a tangible means of reinventing himself and discovering what he can do for other people, without violating his persona. Miles already knows the wrong way of going about justice, and here is someone eager to learn the right way from him. Who's to say they can't discover this together?

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The opinions expressed in this post are purely the opinion and interpretation of the writer and may or may not be completely based upon unquestionable, uncontradictory evidence garnered from the video game series. Then again, what is?

If anyone else has their own interpretations on the nature of this relationship, feel free to share.

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I, uh...

Woah.

I really like Emaworth. It's the only "serious" (READ: Not OC, not Kristoph) Ema pairing I support. Though, I'll admit, Klaviema art is rather cute.
But, anyway, you bring up a lot of good points. I...really don't know what to say to such a large wall of text (which I read, don't worry).

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I think this point can just as easily work against the pairing as for it. Ema developed her crush on Edgeworth while he was his Demon Prosecutor persona. It's totally understandable, but I think that indicates pretty clearly that at the time she didn't *really* know him at all. When Phoenix sees Demon Edgeworth, he believes strongly that something is wrong with him and tries to help him, rightly so. But I'm not sure Ema ever implies she thought there was something "wrong" with Demon Edgeworth that needed saving.

Of course, she didn't know Edgeworth when he was little, and is too young (and preoccupied) during 1-5 to go into it very deeply. A teenage girl having a crush on an older man she doesn't actually know that well isn't all that uncommon, but to be honest I see it more of a point of growth for her than I do a viable pairing possibility. Like the kind of thing a girl is destined to grow out of.

I think it would be very interesting to know what Ema thought of Edgeworth post 2-4, after he's no longer the same person she developed her crush on in the first place. If she liked him in part because he was cold, distant, and mysterious, would she like him as much after he's grown as a person? Does she have a lesser appreciation for prosecutors in general now that she's worked with Klavier? And for that matter, what would Edgeworth think of her new, much more bitter personality? Would it turn him off, or would he like her better now that her cheerfulness isn't quite so overpowering?

I'm not really a fan of the pairing but it does have some interesting dynamics.

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Very impressive essay! Now, there's a very obvious reference in game 4 where Ema is implying that she doesn't like Klavier and prosecutors should be more like *obvious allusion to Edgeworth* so I think this shows she still holds him in high regard. [Higher regard than Klavier!]

However, I can't really support this pairing as there doesn't ever seem to be anything suggesting Edgeworth would be attracted to Ema or even friends. It's possible, yes, but unlikely. It would be kind of nice if they established a friendship or whatever in GK but I think 'Key Girl' is going to be taking up any female assistant/whatever there?

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I agree with that.... even though it could still grow into a relationship....

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OK. I know this is a VERY big bump. But i've seen a lot of comments about this topic (including i think, attemps to make another one like it), yet nobody's looked for it. I did, and found it, so here it is. The official place to debate pairings (i think it should be a sticky).
Maybe this will take the pressure off all of the pairing fan threads.

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/

discuss.

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New Pairing
/
And I don't mean Valant / thalassa.
I mean before she gets her memory back

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When did that one come about? O_o

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I believe it was in the GS4 pairings thread.

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So, what is the 'basis' for this, um, pairing?

After eating at Eldoon's stand for so long, Phoenix cannot help but lust after the wet, salty taste of Eldoon's noodle?

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Last edited by AddleBoy on Fri May 29, 2009 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

I can see this happening. Eldoon is a salty old man, Phoenix is a tortured soul. They meet at a noodle stand, at the dead of night.
History happens.

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Eww. I still say / is the best.
a magican and a blind singer who looks like the magicans dead crush, exept she is his dead crush, but neither of them know it.

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I don't know why, but I've been thinking of a crack pairing between Trucy and an older version of Pearls. I mean, she'd be about Trucy's age during AJ, right?

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If it's a FRIENDS pairing yes. The're almost the same age.
And there's allready art of her and young Trucy:

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I read a TrucyxPearl fic once. Somewhere on FanFic.net...

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!

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A "gay lawyer" game would be the title given by 4chan, or anyone who doesn't like the game, frankly.

Example: "Phoenix Wright? That gay lawyer game?

Capcom would have thought ahead. However, replaying Phoenix Wright has given me a few chuckles at the super gay back and forths Phoenix and Edgeworth have.

"How could I leave you?" Lord.



Yes, the reconncting with Edgeworth for a carreer thing WAS pretty gay. I might just have to accept it.

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Here's a slighty random yet possibly shippable pairing i'd like you to discuss:
/

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And then poor Dollie is left with no one.

/
Discuss.

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WHOEVER WINS, WE LOSE.

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This almost made me spit my food XD

NOW.
In response to post in P/M topic:


Can you guess why i did?



You've allready done that more than anybody else, in this thread (pgs 3 & 4), which might as well been in the P/I thread because it affected people there.
And once again i was just commenting about that photo. And someone agreed about it's content so don't pin it all on me.


My point is no pairing is superior to the others. The're all equal.

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Last edited by Johnny Rotan on Sun May 31, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.