Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Herr Blondie wrote:
However I think you only need to look at GS4 for proof NickxIris ain't canon seeing as she has no place in it.
Not necessarily. If you decide to pair Phoenix just by looking at GS4, then the only conclusion you can come up with is Phoenix/
Iris was probably being with Phoenix the whole time and Apollo just failed to notice...
Or she could still be in jail...
Or she died...
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Which is true. There is no canon Phoenix pairing. Again...We're not here to discuss canonity (because that is induspitable), we're here to debate viability.
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Ema
Thalassa
Maya
And I guess you could say Trucy, but that's a bit creepy, IMO.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Sure thing...but you intentionally excluded Iris from that list, didn't you? And why should she be any less probable, hmm?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
Euh...
Sure thing...but you intentionally excluded Iris from that list, didn't you? And why should she be any less probable, hmm?
Sure thing...but you intentionally excluded Iris from that list, didn't you? And why should she be any less probable, hmm?
Read what he said again. "references or interacts with in GS4."
I don't remember any references to Iris in GS4.
And the reference to Maya is really up in the air for me.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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And I do suspect the coercion into sending reviews. Who is more likely to force Nick? Pearl or Maya?
Finally, remember that Maya's the head of Kurain. She has immense financial and political influence, which could get Phoenix
1) Acquitted of forging evidence before he was disbarred.
2) Relieved of his financial troubles, especially as he was beleaguered with a kid not too long afterwards.
Since neither happened, I assumed that Maya just abandoned him.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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2) Shu Takumi demanded that scene referencing Maya, we all know that it's her for this reason alone.
3) Every important girl in Nick's life has abandoned him at some point. As a P/I fan, it's ironic you talk a bout abandonment issues. BTW, we all assume that Kurain's doing well again, but Kurain's prime was, what, 16 yeard before PW? We don't know Kurain's status. Your arguments are moot.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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justis76 wrote:
Dude, Pearl doesn't watch Steel Samurai. Do your research. BTW, 1) Maya doesn't abandon him, which is shown by the videos
What videos?
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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1) It's ONE! Not TWO! Shu Takumi is director, but by no means is he GOD. He can demand small things like that, but if the writers employed don't want to comply with an open pairing, then Shu Takumi is proverbial toast.
2) How did Maya afford to ship those freakin' videos piled up as high as Phoenix himself? Hmm?? Also, why isn't Maya present at Wright and Co. offices anymore? Furthermore, what happened to the 4-4 State v. Gramarye trial? Maya wasn't there.
Morgan desperately wanted Pearl to inherit the Master's seat, so it was still very important. Obviously...(And even the DL-6 scandal couldn't taint its reputation)
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Adrian in black wrote:
justis76 wrote:
Dude, Pearl doesn't watch Steel Samurai. Do your research. BTW, 1) Maya doesn't abandon him, which is shown by the videos
What videos?
The videos that were sent to Phoenix in 4-2.
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VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
Pearl emulates Maya. It is not unreasonable to claim that the Steel Samurai fandom grew on her.
1) It's ONE! Not TWO! Shu Takumi is director, but by no means is he GOD. He can demand small things like that, but if the writers employed don't want to comply with an open pairing, then Shu Takumi is proverbial toast.
2) How did Maya afford to ship those freakin' videos piled up as high as Phoenix himself? Hmm?? Also, why isn't Maya present at Wright and Co. offices anymore? Furthermore, what happened to the 4-4 State v. Gramarye trial? Maya wasn't there.
Morgan desperately wanted Pearl to inherit the Master's seat, so it was still very important. Obviously...(And even the DL-6 scandal couldn't taint its reputation)
1) It's ONE! Not TWO! Shu Takumi is director, but by no means is he GOD. He can demand small things like that, but if the writers employed don't want to comply with an open pairing, then Shu Takumi is proverbial toast.
2) How did Maya afford to ship those freakin' videos piled up as high as Phoenix himself? Hmm?? Also, why isn't Maya present at Wright and Co. offices anymore? Furthermore, what happened to the 4-4 State v. Gramarye trial? Maya wasn't there.
Morgan desperately wanted Pearl to inherit the Master's seat, so it was still very important. Obviously...(And even the DL-6 scandal couldn't taint its reputation)
1)It doesn't matter, because Shu Takumi got his way, correct? If the producers really wanted to bring Maya back, it wouldn't have been just a reference, which means Shu Takumi got his way. And besides, we're not even discussing the possibility of P/M being canon in FS4, are we? We're talking about if it really is Maya in 4-2, and it obviously is. Maya is referenced in Case 4-2. End of story.
2) Maya went back to Kurain. If your seemingly limited memory will allow, Maya said she was going to be both Master and assistant at Wright & Co., so if she's not there, than she's _______. I'll let you figure it out. Not that hard, taffy. I think everybody figured that out. And there's a difference between being able to make enough money to buy DVD's over time and being a financial powerhouse. Again, as an indication of Kurain's financial situation, in 2-2 & 3-2, there is a cloth showing "101(1001? Can't remember) For Spirit Mediums To Make Money", or something along those lines. Because (and everybody knows this except you it seems, if you were to take a tally right now at least 98% of the people would tell you Maya sent them) Maya sends him videos, it's also entirely possible that she visits him whenever possible. Even if that's not right, the main point is that Maya is the only PW-era character shown to still have contact with Nick. But anyways, I'm getting off-topic, because the main point is that Iris, judging by AJ-only stuff, is not one of the characters that are a possible love interest of Nick's. And Maya is, along with several other girls.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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justis76 wrote:
1)It doesn't matter, because Shu Takumi got his way, correct? If the producers really wanted to bring Maya back, it wouldn't have been just a reference, which means Shu Takumi got his way. And besides, we're not even discussing the possibility of P/M being canon in FS4, are we? We're talking about if it really is Maya in 4-2, and it obviously is. Maya is referenced in Case 4-2. End of story.
2) Maya went back to Kurain. If your seemingly limited memory will allow, Maya said she was going to be both Master and assistant at Wright & Co., so if she's not there, than she's _______. I'll let you figure it out. Not that hard, taffy. I think everybody figured that out. And there's a difference between being able to make enough money to buy DVD's over time and being a financial powerhouse. Again, as an indication of Kurain's financial situation, in 2-2 & 3-2, there is a cloth showing "101(1001? Can't remember) For Spirit Mediums To Make Money", or something along those lines. Because (and everybody knows this except you it seems, if you were to take a tally right now at least 98% of the people would tell you Maya sent them) Maya sends him videos, it's also entirely possible that she visits him whenever possible. Even if that's not right, the main point is that Maya is the only PW-era character shown to still have contact with Nick. But anyways, I'm getting off-topic, because the main point is that Iris, judging by AJ-only stuff, is not one of the characters that are a possible love interest of Nick's. And Maya is, along with several other girls.
2) Maya went back to Kurain. If your seemingly limited memory will allow, Maya said she was going to be both Master and assistant at Wright & Co., so if she's not there, than she's _______. I'll let you figure it out. Not that hard, taffy. I think everybody figured that out. And there's a difference between being able to make enough money to buy DVD's over time and being a financial powerhouse. Again, as an indication of Kurain's financial situation, in 2-2 & 3-2, there is a cloth showing "101(1001? Can't remember) For Spirit Mediums To Make Money", or something along those lines. Because (and everybody knows this except you it seems, if you were to take a tally right now at least 98% of the people would tell you Maya sent them) Maya sends him videos, it's also entirely possible that she visits him whenever possible. Even if that's not right, the main point is that Maya is the only PW-era character shown to still have contact with Nick. But anyways, I'm getting off-topic, because the main point is that Iris, judging by AJ-only stuff, is not one of the characters that are a possible love interest of Nick's. And Maya is, along with several other girls.
Wow, you might want to cool it down there. No need to be personally insulting.
And a lot of this is speculation, really. Things and people can change after 7 years.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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justis76 wrote:
. Even if that's not right, the main point is that Maya is the only PW-era character shown to still have contact with Nick. But anyways, I'm getting off-topic, because the main point is that Iris, judging by AJ-only stuff, is not one of the characters that are a possible love interest of Nick's. And Maya is, along with several other girls.
Why aren't Phoenix and Maya in a relationship in AJ or between T&T and AJ. If she was a love interest then surely she would have brighted up Phoenix's life to truly fall in love and marry. My point of why Iris is not mentioned in AJ is described below and what the means to their "relationship".
At the time Iris would have been released she would have been an ex-felon for tampering with evidence. At the same time Phoenix was disbarred for presenting forged evidence in court. Both have criminal pasts in a way. Now let's look at Trucy. She was abandoned by both parents and one was being accused of homicide. Family court would not allow two guardians with recent criminal pasts to take in a girl like Trucy so Phoenix and Iris could not marry. So Phoenix didn't mention Iris as a love interest to Trucy but probably as a friend like Maya who surely stopped by at some point in those seven years which is why Trucy asks for a mommy in AJ. The reasoning is he didn't want to let Trucy down by the ruling of family court.
So now at the end of AJ, Phoenix is cleared of wrongdoing by Kristoph's conviction. Also considering Trucy is older now, family court would allow marriage.
Okay I realize and I do that anything said in GS5 could make this entire theory moot. It's just what I think at the moment. Feel free to debate this point.
Oh and Maya was the only one mentioned because she has the biggest fanbase out of all of Phoenix's female friends.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
1) It's ONE! Not TWO! Shu Takumi is director, but by no means is he GOD. He can demand small things like that, but if the writers employed don't want to comply with an open pairing, then Shu Takumi is proverbial toast.
(One not two?) I'm not sure where that arguement was going. Mr. Takumi is the creator of the Ace Attorney series-- he was the director, planner and story writer of the first three games. He still has influence over the series. Now you're saying what the creator of the series wants isn't important? What he wants is now void? I mean, he only just thought up the entire series, what does he matter, anyways? He wanted Maya in the game because Maya is very important to Nick. The writers wrote Maya's scene as if she still kept in touch with Nick-- not as if she was abandoning him. He didn't ask for Iris to be mentioned. No other member of the writers team demanded Iris to be brought back. Iris was never mentioned. No one wanted her to be mentioned.
VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
What happened to the 4-4 State v. Gramarye trial? Maya wasn't there.
As for the trial: Apollo Justice was created so that you didn't have to play the previous three games to know what was going on. There were references, and any neccessary back story to the entire feeling of the game was explained. That was all you needed. Imagine if you never played the Phoenix Wright trilogy and then in case 4 some random chick you've never seen before just starts acting chummy with Phoenix Wright. It would confuse the hell out of you, because it's unnatural to explain who she is just for that short trial. They have to make sure that new players wouldn't be intimidated with old characters. That's how I always saw it. All the references to past characters were very vague, if someone just showed up there it would confuse the hell out of people.
Platinum Skye -- There's no reason for Phoenix not to have told Trucy that he and Iris were dating. Besides, Trucy is 15 and she's not stupid-- Phoenix could have told her the entire story. And even if he and Iris did see each other often, she was never mentioned. : / Trucy never mentioned seeing Maya either, but it's shown that Phoenix and Maya still stayed in touch-- so they're still friends.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Femme Fatale wrote:
Platinum Skye -- There's no reason for Phoenix not to have told Trucy that he and Iris were dating. Besides, Trucy is 15 and she's not stupid-- Phoenix could have told her the entire story. And even if he and Iris did see each other often, she was never mentioned. : / Trucy never mentioned seeing Maya either, but it's shown that Phoenix and Maya still stayed in touch-- so they're still friends.
I'm not denying here that Phoenix and Maya are still friends. In fact the whole agreement here that Phoenix and Maya are only friends is what makes me not understand the supposed love future with Phoenix and Maya. When Iris would have logically been released from custody Trucy would have been around nine or ten. Telling her the past relationship and not getting married or anything would only deepen Trucy's angst filled psyche and HoboPhoenix is a good Daddy.
Oh and I'm getting annoyed with this whole "Iris is never mentioned so she and Phoenix are no longer anything." This story is told through Apollo's eyes except for a bit in 4-4 and Maya isn't even mentioned there. Maya has a bigger fanbase then Iris yet she only got a brief suggestion which is correct in my mind it was Maya who sent the Steel Samuari DVD's. If they aren't going to mention Maya's name then why would Iris be named?
By the way what do you think of my whole Phoenix and Iris can't get married due to family court and criminal pasts theory until Phoenix is cleared of wrongdoing at the end of AJ?
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justis76 wrote:
1)It doesn't matter, because Shu Takumi got his way, correct? If the producers really wanted to bring Maya back, it wouldn't have been just a reference, which means Shu Takumi got his way. And besides, we're not even discussing the possibility of P/M being canon in FS4, are we? We're talking about if it really is Maya in 4-2, and it obviously is. Maya is referenced in Case 4-2. End of story.
2) Maya went back to Kurain. If your seemingly limited memory will allow, Maya said she was going to be both Master and assistant at Wright & Co., so if she's not there, than she's _______. I'll let you figure it out. Not that hard, taffy. I think everybody figured that out. And there's a difference between being able to make enough money to buy DVD's over time and being a financial powerhouse. Again, as an indication of Kurain's financial situation, in 2-2 & 3-2, there is a cloth showing "101(1001? Can't remember) For Spirit Mediums To Make Money", or something along those lines. Because (and everybody knows this except you it seems, if you were to take a tally right now at least 98% of the people would tell you Maya sent them) Maya sends him videos, it's also entirely possible that she visits him whenever possible. Even if that's not right, the main point is that Maya is the only PW-era character shown to still have contact with Nick. But anyways, I'm getting off-topic, because the main point is that Iris, judging by AJ-only stuff, is not one of the characters that are a possible love interest of Nick's. And Maya is, along with several other girls.
It's too cluttered. Learn some organization, will ya?
And if you will consider unfeasible possibilities, so will I. Did you...1) forget to consider the possibility of Passive resistance? Again, Shu Takumi had to demand, which means the scriptors were most likely not unanimously complying. Many of them...probably intentionally, decided to leave that reference anonymous.
2) Personal attacks show that you're getting desperate, that instead of attacking my arguments, you go for the writer in an attempt to undermine his credentials. Cut it.
Over time? Phoenix himself references that she keeps sending him videos. Seriously...she keeps him updated on pretty much every single one. And FYI, we don't even know if it's Maya or not. Croik herself says that Maya doesn't make an appearance (Sorry, Croik).
Spirit mediums make money. They get customers, such as
. Of course they get paid. How do you think they maintain their sustenance? (And how did Maya develop such a voracious appetite without an overabundance of food?). Misty's scandal happened years and years ago, when Maya was still an actual kid. Having lived for that long under favorable conditions, it's safe to surmise that Kurain's not in any turbulence.98%? That's a fabricated statistic. I hate those. Get rid of it immediately.
@Femme Fatale's first argument:
No, tell me, as the creator of an RP, can you godmod? You can't. Seriously.
And Shu Takumi cannot either. Why? Because it means anyone and everyone who opposes him at all will be fired, and he will have to repeatedly hire new teams, something Ace Attorney's modest budget probably can't handle.
And also, the purpose of multiple writers is to share insight on the story. If Takumi scripted it all by himself, it'd save a lot of money, and maximize profits, wouldn't it? You have to wonder why he hires seemingly extraneous scripters
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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And so did Iris, Edgeworth, Gumshoe, Larry, and everyone else from the PW era...except for ema...
And the videos? I wondered why anybody would send someone a few season's worth of videos to someone who only got mildly injured in a car accident...
So whoever sent it to Phoenix was obviously someone who loved him...but it wasn't Maya. If Maya really cared, she would have visited him instead of sending things that would take years to finish.
My guess is some fangirl gave the videos to him.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Yaragorm wrote:
Some fangirl
That's hilarious!
But to be honest, it's not probable. Phoenix is an ex Ace Attorney. He's not renowned, in fact, he's probably despised. So I don't really think he'd have fans...I mean...Klavier's all the rage in GS4.
Re: The pairing debate thread!
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VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
No, tell me, as the creator of an RP, can you godmod? You can't. Seriously.
I can, and she's right. I would take her warning to heart if I were either of you. Actually, I think you and justis need to spend some time off the forums for a little while. Stop making arguments personal. It's just annoying and so easily avoidable.
This debate has gotten way off topic again. No one here is the creator of the games or works on the games, and therefore, can't really know what those people were thinking when they wrote the games.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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neoswordmaster wrote:
Adrian in black wrote:
justis76 wrote:
Dude, Pearl doesn't watch Steel Samurai. Do your research. BTW, 1) Maya doesn't abandon him, which is shown by the videos
What videos?
The videos that were sent to Phoenix in 4-2.
Oh, yeah. For some reason, I took the statement to mean that Maya showed up in a video, and for a minute, I thought I had missed something.
Not sure why people are using someone's absence in AJ to mean that a relationship with Phoenix isn't happening. As it's been said, Maya wasn't in the game, but that doesn't she and Phoenix weren't still friends (although, to be fair, that "kid" sending Steel Samurai videos could have also been Cody...but we know that the reference is supposed to point to Maya). I don't think it's much different with Phoenix and Iris. I mean, personally, I believe their time is over (but then, I've been so "sure" of relationships' outcome before, only to be proven wrong by sequels, so who knows), but that doesn't mean something new couldn't have begun. I just don't think Iris' absence in AJ is a good indicator of what happened between them. Aside from Gumshoe, Meekins, and a vague reference to Maya, pretty much everyone in Phoenix's arc didn't bother showing up in AJ. And why? It's Apollo's story, not Phoenix's.
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After all, we don't see Phoenix that much. In 4-1 he's on trial, 4-2 he's in a hospital, He is absent from 4-3, and he is only briefly in the begging of 4-4 (with his other appearances in that case specifically for investigation). There is very little that is spoken of his personal life. So Maya or Iris' (or anyones' for that matter) abscence may not prove or disprove anything.
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Lunaria42 wrote:
VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
No, tell me, as the creator of an RP, can you godmod? You can't. Seriously.
I can, and she's right. I would take her warning to heart if I were either of you. Actually, I think you and justis need to spend some time off the forums for a little while. Stop making arguments personal. It's just annoying and so easily avoidable.
This debate has gotten way off topic again. No one here is the creator of the games or works on the games, and therefore, can't really know what those people were thinking when they wrote the games.
As much as I hate to say it, she's right. You guys do seem to tend to clash antlers a lot...
But back on topic, Phoenix was definitely renowned before GS4, after all he defended two main prosecutors, 4 famous people, and the future master of kurain TWICE. And there's always the hardcore fan who never gives up...
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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I'll try to make sure my posts are kept as much as they can on the topic of pairings, Loonie. ;u;
VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
Spirit mediums make money. They get customers, such as . Of course they get paid. How do you think they maintain their sustenance? (And how did Maya develop such a voracious appetite without an overabundance of food?). Misty's scandal happened years and years ago, when Maya was still an actual kid. Having lived for that long under favorable conditions, it's safe to surmise that Kurain's not in any turbulence.
. Of course they get paid. How do you think they maintain their sustenance? (And how did Maya develop such a voracious appetite without an overabundance of food?). Misty's scandal happened years and years ago, when Maya was still an actual kid. Having lived for that long under favorable conditions, it's safe to surmise that Kurain's not in any turbulence. I think Mia helped Maya get through her child years. They only started getting customers again in JFA, after the DL-6 incident was sorted out. Therefore, before that, they were still poor. At the time of the 4-4 flashback, it's very easy to assume that Kurain was still having financial troubles and Maya couldn't help. Besides, I don't think no matter how much influence the Kurain village had, they couldn't have gotten a lawyer back after he was disbarred. And even if they could, that would make Nick seem even worse in the public eye.
Platinum Skye wrote:
When Iris would have logically been released from custody Trucy would have been around nine or ten. Telling her the past relationship and not getting married or anything would only deepen Trucy's angst filled psyche and HoboPhoenix is a good Daddy.
I'm pretty sure a nine year old could at the time handle "We're dating yet, but we're not ready to get married." Besides, they could have lived together but not have gotten married, while taking care of a kid. Lots of parents do that. At the children's day camp where I worked a 9 year old girl excitedly told me "I was the flower girl at my parent's wedding! They forgot to get married before they had me! Haha! Isn't that silly?!" They could have just waited before telling her that they weren't actually married. They didn't have to keep anything a secret from her. By the time she was 15 they could have told her the entire story. : /
Platinum Skye wrote:
Oh and I'm getting annoyed with this whole "Iris is never mentioned so she and Phoenix are no longer anything." This story is told through Apollo's eyes except for a bit in 4-4 and Maya isn't even mentioned there. Maya has a bigger fanbase then Iris yet she only got a brief suggestion which is correct in my mind it was Maya who sent the Steel Samuari DVD's. If they aren't going to mention Maya's name then why would Iris be named?
Even though Apollo's eyes Maya was referenced twice in the game. Iris wasn't even referenced-- there was no evidence to show that she even kept in touch with Nick. If there's no way to prove she did, people can assume she didn't stay in touch.
Platinum Skye wrote:
By the way what do you think of my whole Phoenix and Iris can't get married due to family court and criminal pasts theory until Phoenix is cleared of wrongdoing at the end of AJ?
It can be plausible, but it's very flimsy, still. The only evidence it has is that both Iris and Phoenix are criminals. Therefore it's impossible to prove it's impossible- just as it's impossible to prove it's canon. If your story was true, I'd assume that Trucy would be set on making Phoenix marry Iris, no matter how much Phoenix denied a relationship.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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I don't see how the fact Maya gets referenced slightly and not even by name confirms her as a pairing in GS4.
It's illogical to me.
1) While it's likely to be Maya, it COULD be Pearl we can't confirm what the writers or backstage folks were doing at the time.
2) In the reference if it IS Maya the fact Phoenix refers to her as 'some kid' kinda implies that he doesn't look on her as an adult or romantically.
If anything it's canon evidence that Phoenix DOESN'T romantically feel for Maya at least in GS4.
Oh and YaraG erm Gumshoe is confirmed to be alive in GS4 remember?
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Platinum Skye wrote:
When Iris would have logically been released from custody Trucy would have been around nine or ten.
I don't think this statement could be right... Iris must have stayed in jail for quite some time! After her trial in 3-5, she prolly went through another trial and was prolly found guilty for being an accomplice in the perpetration of a felony. And she was also prolly found guilty for tampering with vital evidence. Since she helped alter the crime scene and all that...
The laws for the state of California say that her first crime would earn her at least 15 years in the slammer. Or for life if they felt particularly mean. (But with the chance of parole!) But the law also states that tampering with evidence, in addition to being an accomplice in felony, would earn her even more years!
I'm no expert at law or anything... But I'm pretty sure about these! I mean. I know that these would be the mandatory sentences if she were found guilty in this day and age in California. But in the year 2019, the mandatory sentence for first degree murder is the death penalty. Right now, they only dish out death sentences if it's a first degree murder under special circumstances! In short, they got pretty harsh.
So I'm guessing that the sentence for second degree murder got worse, too...? That'd make sense, right? But that'd be no good for poor Iris at all! I'm not saying she got the death penalty or anything, though, 'cause what she committed was second degree and not first. All I'm saying is that she was probably in jail for a really long time and maybe that's why she wasn't mentioned in GS4. And maybe that's also one of the reasons for her not being a love interest of Phoenix's at the time.
I know it doesn't sound nice at all but it's just a theory! I could still be wrong... I mean, as Adrian in black stated a while ago, it's Apollo's story. Anything could'a happened to Phoenix! And anything could'a happened to the people with relations to him!
But yeah... It sounded pretty reasonable in my head, LOL. Anyone got thoughts on my theory?
Platinum Skye wrote:
By the way what do you think of my whole Phoenix and Iris can't get married due to family court and criminal pasts theory until Phoenix is cleared of wrongdoing at the end of AJ?
It's a bit hard to say... IMHO, Phoenix's crime really wasn't as serious as Iris's crime. And plus, I don't really get how family court systems work in terms of plausible custodial parents. And I guess it'd be a bit harder to understand the family laws in the Ace Attorney years... You can see that it changed a lot!
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You're right about California law, but remember that Phoenix Wright takes place in...Wacky California. PW world punishments are different than real world punishments. In 2-4 Adrian did everything that Iris--fixing the scene, planting evidence, obstruction of justice etc. Adrian's crimes were even worse because she specifically tried to frame someone for the murder. Sure Matt turned out "guilty" in the end, but her tampering might have meant the difference between life in prison or the death penalty for Matt. And yet, she is not only free from prison, but very well employed only a few months later.
Even if it doesn't make sense for the real world, AA world law suggests that Iris would not have been in jail any longer than Adrian, which was less than half a year.
Anyway, as to the GS4 debate, I can't say I remember this reference of "Takumi forced them to include a mention of Maya." But regardless, as was already mentioned, this is not a place to debate canon. Just because certain people "don't exist" in GS4 doesn't mean they disappeared, or that Phoenix no longer speaks to them. We've never had a single reference to his parents after all, but that doesn't mean he sprang out of the ground from nowhere! And Larry has a GS4 cameo, but I wouldn't take that to mean he keeps in touch with Phoenix any more than they did in the past.
So let's calm down with the "Iris doesn't appear in GS4 which means...." stuff, because it doesn't mean anything until she gets an actual reference.
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VeryHappyTaffy wrote:
Maya is not referenced either. All they Phoenix alluded to was "Some kid". That kid could be Pearl for all we know! In fact, it fits better with Pearl. Phoenix shant refer to a 26 year old as a kid, but for a 16 year old...well...
Um, it's confirmed by Takumi in this article that it's Maya who sent the DVDs and he himself insisted on a scene confirming Maya's existence re: Phoenix. I'm sure everyone can read Maya's name and 'DVD' themselves too. It's production policy not to mention unreturned chars by name or divulge much about them at all...
'kid' not kid, Phoenix says
It's in direct ref to Apollo wondering why high and mighty mysterious mentor Phoenix is caught obsessively watching a 'kids show' - the Zappy Samurai, I think it was, obviously the low end of the Samurai franchise, kind of like Junior Spiderman or something. Breaks right through his little omniscient mentor act. Apollo assumes a kid sent them to him and says so. Phoenix is hardly going to properly correct this, he has no time to explain about Maya, as he alludes, it's not Apollo's business anyway.
If he won't tell Apollo about his own sister being his sister, why would he tell him about Maya, who Apollo has never even met, regardless of what relationship she and Phoenix have? Phoenix got Apollo to come in 4-2 because he suspected he was related to Trucy, remember, but he never tells Apollo about the familial stuff (or his actual motives for contacting him at all), not even in 4-4. If Phoenix won't tell Apollo about Apollo's own family, Phoenix is certainly not going to be discussing his other relationship and friendships.
I can't see why this sinks any possibility of romance either. EDGEWORTH likes the Steel Samurai too, anyway.
Phoenix: I reveal nothing to you Apollo, nothing about even cases you'll be defense attorney in tomorrow or that Trucy is your sister or that the card I'm giving you is fake or that I'll take over the trial in 4-1! So I'm hardly going to tell about some unreturned character and I'm still so dedicated to her I'll even watch hundreds of DVDs of a kids show I don't even like and write reports on every single episode. It's bad for my Mentor Image! I'm supposed to remain omnipotent and go off on 'secret missions' I don't tell you about.
Sort of like we have no idea what happens when Mia returns to the Spirit World when she's offscreen.
EDIT: Bad for his image. Apollo is incredulous...
Spoiler: 4-2
Quote:
By the way what do you think of my whole Phoenix and Iris can't get married due to family court and criminal pasts theory until Phoenix is cleared of wrongdoing at the end of AJ?
If Phoenix [single jobless disgraced hobo] was allowed to adopt Trucy, (she has his surname, so supposedly it's all legal) I doubt there'd be a ban on a Phoenix-Iris marriage. It's not like Iris is a murderer. Of course, it always seemed weird that Phoenix was allowed to adopt Trucy in the first place...
Phoenix mentions his parents, though there's nothing to suggest they're still around anywhere or he ever sees them...
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Whoa, good point! I didn't really take Adrian's situation into consideration... Iris did alter the crime scene. But that was to draw suspicion away from someone else. In doing so, Iris even brought suspicion upon herself! And, in my opinion, what Adrian did, in comparison to what Iris did, does seem a lot worse.
I guess AA world law is just weird, LMAO. Death sentence for the dude that did it and a few months of jail for the ones that helped! It usually varies for each case in the game but... Ah, well! What can you do? LOL.
Edit: On second thought! It's not so bad if it's like that... Well, for some cases at least! It keeps good people, who can definitely change for the better, out of jail for a long time! There aren't too many grounds that this would prove true all the time, though... But at least Adrian did okay! In my opinion, it'd prolly work out for other people, too. Like Iris, for example!
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
If Phoenix [single jobless disgraced hobo] was allowed to adopt Trucy, (she has his surname, so supposedly it's all legal) I doubt there'd be a ban on a Phoenix-Iris marriage. It's not like Iris is a murderer. Of course, it always seemed weird that Phoenix was allowed to adopt Trucy in the first place...
Yeah somehow dumping children on your attorney then disappearing for a few years wouldn't fly with adoption agencies these days.
Quote:
'kid' not kid, Phoenix says
It's in direct ref to Apollo wondering why high and mighty mysterious mentor Phoenix is caught obsessively watching a 'kids show' - the Zappy Samurai, I think it was, obviously the low end of the Samurai franchise, kind of like Junior Spiderman or something. Breaks right through his little omniscient mentor act. Apollo assumes a kid sent them to him and says so. Phoenix is hardly going to properly correct this, he has no time to explain about Maya, as he alludes, it's not Apollo's business anyway.
It's in direct ref to Apollo wondering why high and mighty mysterious mentor Phoenix is caught obsessively watching a 'kids show' - the Zappy Samurai, I think it was, obviously the low end of the Samurai franchise, kind of like Junior Spiderman or something. Breaks right through his little omniscient mentor act. Apollo assumes a kid sent them to him and says so. Phoenix is hardly going to properly correct this, he has no time to explain about Maya, as he alludes, it's not Apollo's business anyway.
You make it seem like this is to protect Phoenix's image, least thats how I interpret it forgive me if I misunderstand. However I don't think that's how it is. I think the tone in 'kid' implies more that Maya is still a kid to him despite the fact she'll now be a fully grown adult with responsibilities and a job. Phoenix knows she's still a kid at heart despite her age hence the ironic 'kid'.
Quote:
I can't see why this sinks any possibility of romance either. EDGEWORTH likes the Steel Samurai too, anyway.
If your implying that supports PhoenixXEdgeworth its a silly theory, everyone here likes Ace Attorney (I should hope) don't mean we're all pairing off.
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Yeah somehow dumping children on your attorney then disappearing for a few years wouldn't fly with adoption agencies these days.
Prospective adopters of abandoned children normally need to meet certain requirements of stability. But this is OT.
Quote:
You make it seem like this is to protect Phoenix's image,
Read edit of my last post with game quote.
Quote:
least thats how I interpret it forgive me if I misunderstand. However I don't think that's how it is. I think the tone in 'kid' implies more that Maya is still a kid to him despite the fact she'll now be a fully grown adult with responsibilities and a job. Phoenix knows she's still a kid at heart despite her age hence the ironic 'kid'.
Maya probably still is a 'kid at heart'. Why does that make the pairing impossible? It never stopped Phoenix doing anything with her before. He himself is watching the kid shows for her (supposedly in her absence), not refusing to, so he obviously is more than willing to accept this attribute of her, and go to extreme lengths to cater to it, not deem it grounds to not relate to her. I mean, if people see someone as a 'kid', beneath their maturity, they maybe buy them kiddie DVDs as gifts, but don't mutually participate in the kiddie activity by watching too and writing reports.
(And you want a precedent that it's irrelevant to the writers anyway? Regina is about as mature as a 2 year old, and Regina/Max is almost canon)
Quote:
If your implying that supports PhoenixXEdgeworth its a silly theory, everyone here likes Ace Attorney (I should hope) don't mean we're all pairing off.
Well, actually I was pointing out that the Steel Samurai shows are obviously not only kids shows, people like Edgeworth like some of them. He's still a closet fan in GK as far as I've heard.. But the particular DVD and episode Phoenix is caught watching is most obviously one of the decisively 'kiddie' branches of the franchise (see game quote), hence his embarrassment.
As for 'Maya could have got Phoenix's disbarring overturned straight away':
-She's been Master for, less than 2 months? I mean, we don't even know if she's officially Master yet, who knows what procedures they have to go through.
-In 3-2 they're still adding things to the list of 1002 ways to make money 'Sell old village heirlooms whenever possible' etc. Kurain is still broke.
-Remember Misty Fey? Her channelling in court was deemed "forged evidence"? The channelling technique and Kurain has only just stopped being viewed with utter disgrace by the justice system. 3-5 is the only time it's really proven in court as evidence, even in 2-2 the channelling was a fake and the 'Channelled Mia' photo was inadmissible as evidence, only von Karma believed it, not the court officially. I doubt Maya is going to have the power to overturn Phoenix's disbarring. It was the Bar Association's decision anyway, as if Maya can control that?
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Quote:
Read edit of my last post with game quote.
Doesn't change my opinion. Phoenix struck me as the type that didn't particularly care what Apollo thought of him, as he admitted to forging the evidence earning Apollo's dislike easily enough and your quote only makes me think Apollo thinks less of Phoenix for it but Phoenix seems distinctly 'meh'.
Quote:
Maya probably still is a 'kid at heart'. Why does that make the pairing impossible? It never stopped Phoenix doing anything with her before. He himself is watching the kid shows for her (supposedly in her absence), not refusing to, so he obviously is more than willing to accept this attribute of her, and go to extreme lengths to cater to it, not deem it grounds to not relate to her. I mean, if people see someone as a 'kid', beneath their maturity, they maybe buy them kiddie DVDs as gifts, but don't mutually participate in the kiddie activity by watching too and writing reports.
(And you want a precedent that it's irrelevant to the writers anyway? Regina is about as mature as a 2 year old, and Regina/Max is almost canon)
(And you want a precedent that it's irrelevant to the writers anyway? Regina is about as mature as a 2 year old, and Regina/Max is almost canon)
If Phoenix thinks that Maya is such a kid he clearly doesn't think of her in a romantic or adult sense. I believe that Phoenix after dealing with the samurai so many times and putting up with Maya and possibly Pearl watching it all the time it eventually grew on him. As for the reports I imagine they were a request of Maya's or....maybe report is a bit too formal a word. I see it as (presuming Maya and Phoenix still maintain regular contact) they discuss the episodes like fans do and Maya get's Phoenix's 'report' or review or whatever of such and such episode of _____ Samurai. As for all the stuff he did with her before hardly any of that was romantic, she was like a young friend of his, definately not mature enough for a relationship. And Regina/Max is an EXTREME case of two extreme people, it's almost a parody of a fairy tale Prince and Princess. Phoenix and Maya aren't extreme enough to be like that, they both cringe whenever Pearls mentions 'special someones'.
Quote:
Well, actually I was pointing out that the Steel Samurai shows are obviously not only kids shows, people like Edgeworth like some of them. He's still a closet fan in GK as far as I've heard.. But the particular DVD and episode Phoenix is caught watching is most obviously one of the decisively 'kiddie' branches of the franchise (see game quote), hence his embarrassment.
Is this from that art of Edgeworth Cody and Maya debating Steel Samurai? From the fact you say 'closet' fan it's kinda obvious it's a guilty pleasure of Edgeworth's I'd say because it is purely a kids show. If it had a more adult variety for Edgeworth he wouldn't feel so ashamed. Maybe Edgeworth watched it as a kid or something and it's always had a soft spot for him who knows? Either way we're off topic I think.
Quote:
As for 'Maya could have got Phoenix's disbarring overturned straight away':
-She's been Master for, less than 2 months? I mean, we don't even know if she's officially Master yet, who knows what procedures they have to go through.
-She's been Master for, less than 2 months? I mean, we don't even know if she's officially Master yet, who knows what procedures they have to go through.
In addition like Icer said the Kurain family was disgraced and stuff. Even if it still had power I SEVERELY doubt it has that much power to just dictate things and get decisions "overturned straight away." Again I feel that the government's use of Kurain tradition is a guilty little secret to them, one they won't want made too public so probably wouldn't indulge Maya's whims like that.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Croik wrote:
And Larry has a GS4 cameo, but I wouldn't take that to mean he keeps in touch with Phoenix any more than they did in the past.
Whoa-whoa, WHOA! When was this again?
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Yaragorm wrote:
Croik wrote:
And Larry has a GS4 cameo, but I wouldn't take that to mean he keeps in touch with Phoenix any more than they did in the past.
Whoa-whoa, WHOA! When was this again?
Screenshot of the sunshine coliseum, it appears he is having a picnic outside with some girl.
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Herr Blondie wrote:
Yaragorm wrote:
Croik wrote:
And Larry has a GS4 cameo, but I wouldn't take that to mean he keeps in touch with Phoenix any more than they did in the past.
Whoa-whoa, WHOA! When was this again?
Screenshot of the sunshine coliseum, it appears he is having a picnic outside with some girl.
Oh. interesting....
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Herr Blondie wrote:
I believe that Phoenix after dealing with the samurai so many times and putting up with Maya and possibly Pearl watching it all the time it eventually grew on him. As for the reports I imagine they were a request of Maya's or....maybe report is a bit too formal a word. I see it as (presuming Maya and Phoenix still maintain regular contact) they discuss the episodes like fans do and Maya get's Phoenix's 'report' or review or whatever of such and such episode of _____ Samurai.
If Phoenix now genuinely likes it himself enough to be a fan (and that's his main motivation for watching 100's of DVDs/writing reports) then your argument that he thinks of Maya as a 'kid' because of her Samurai show obsession etc. and unable to be a romantic partner doesn't make any sense.
To be honest, trying to derive only things from an Easter Egg scene to define the total current (or future) relationship is pretty worthless. For a comparative example, I think all we hear about Mia in GS4 is that "my 'mentor' gave me a plant named Charley" but that hardly tells us much about the actual relationship Phoenix had with Mia, except that the fact Phoenix still has it means either he has it as a memento of Mia - or maybe he likes plants, or, anything could be imagined really, if we didn't take the background from GS1-3 into account.
Apollo himself seems to think it's stupid that Charley has a name, BTW, and doesn't want to hear about it. We might assume, say, the mentor was crazy and talked to and named plants, if we hadn't played previous games... what's leaked to Apollo about unreturned characters is very inaccurate taken alone and usually makes Phoenix look stupid to embarrass him, kind of like jokes. I think Apollo even attaches some double meaning to Ema's fingerprint powder from 1-5 too? It's only because Ema herself returns to the game we know they aren't a pair of drug addicts.
If Phoenix is spending all this time and effort on DVDs and reports of the Steel Samurai franchise, that's probably the tip of the iceberg of his communications with Maya - he doesn't even like it in the original trilogy so that would hardly be the sole method he'd choose to maintain a friendship with her. If he's going out of his way to cater to all her quirks, even ones he doesn't mutually share, one has to ask why...
Quote:
Doesn't change my opinion. Phoenix struck me as the type that didn't particularly care what Apollo thought of him, as he admitted to forging the evidence earning Apollo's dislike easily enough and your quote only makes me think Apollo thinks less of Phoenix for it but Phoenix seems distinctly 'meh'.
As for emotions and not caring, Phoenix hides behind his poker face 24/7 to Apollo. We'd never know. He seemed to both expect and want Apollo to punch him over the forged card, and not telling him would be a worse crime in Phoenix's eyes.
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Re: The pairing debate thread!
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Quote:
If Phoenix now genuinely likes it himself enough to be a fan (and that's his main motivation for watching 100's of DVDs/writing reports) then your argument that he thinks of Maya as a 'kid' because of her Samurai show obsession etc. and unable to be a romantic partner doesn't make any sense.
I fail to see how. You yourself brought forward the Edgeworth bit where he likes Steel Samurai. Proving that 'adults' can still be proper and adult while watching it if your implying that by enjoying Samurai adventures Nick is as much of a kid as Maya.
Quote:
If Phoenix is spending all this time and effort on DVDs and reports of the Steel Samurai franchise, that's probably the tip of the iceberg of his communications with Maya - he doesn't even like it in the original trilogy so that would hardly be the sole method he'd choose to maintain a friendship with her. If he's going out of his way to cater to all her quirks, even ones he doesn't mutually share, one has to ask why...
Time and effort?
He works nights at clubs and barely has money to get by. Until the events of GS4 it would just be him and Trucy, most days just him alone at home. Plus he says Maya sends him the videos/DVD's so he's not paying for them. He didn't care about practicing Piano back then since he had his one song. The question begs, while Maya is forcing these videos on him and asking him what he thinks of them...what else is he going to do during his day?
Besides we all have to cater for our friends quirks, it's rare for two friends to see exactly eye to eye you understand there's always compromises in friendship. Lets say....Nick is neither neutral or a fan of the Samurai adventures and actively dislikes them as you seem to think, is it so hard to imagine he'd watch the videos she sends him and talks to her about them just so they'd have something to talk about?
Personally I think Nick would be at least neutral to the Samurai series after the amount it's been forced on him.
But point is just because Nick caters for the quirks in the long distance friendship with Maya doesn't mean he has any romantic feelings.
However your probably right about looking too much into an Easter Egg.
But others considered it 'proof' they were an item since she got a mention.
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Herr Blondie wrote:
The question begs, while Maya is forcing these videos on him and asking him what he thinks of them...what else is he going to do during his day?
Sleep: he works nights. Look after Trucy. Do the housework. Do the shopping...
Quote:
Besides we all have to cater for our friends quirks, it's rare for two friends to see exactly eye to eye you understand there's always compromises in friendship. Lets say....Nick is neither neutral or a fan of the Samurai adventures and actively dislikes them as you seem to think, is it so hard to imagine he'd watch the videos she sends him and talks to her about them just so they'd have something to talk about?
Yes. Nobody's forcing him to write reports of every single episode. For example, do you, Herr Blondie, assume random friends and relatives of yours (say, your uncle) will play and write obsessive TL;DR essays about the Phoenix Wright series (A kiddie videogame!) just because you are obsessed with it, so you'll have 'something to talk about'? Of course not! There's plenty of other topics your uncle/friend can find to talk to you about.
Quote:
But point is just because Nick caters for the quirks in the long distance friendship with Maya doesn't mean he has any romantic feelings.
And it doesn't mean he doesn't either, which is what you (I think it was you) were trying to claim.
Quote:
However your probably right about looking too much into an Easter Egg.
But others considered it 'proof' they were an item since she got a mention.
But others considered it 'proof' they were an item since she got a mention.
No, it's 'proof' their relationship was considered important enough to have a scene still proving its existence, when the other unreturned chars weren't. But neither of us raised this topic in the first place, so I don't see the point in eternally arguing about it. It's not like the pairing's general validity has its basis or main supporting evidence in that Easter Egg scene.
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Sleep: he works nights. Look after Trucy. Do the housework. Do the shopping...
HAH! An you think thats going to take up all his time? You saw the state of the Wright Anything Agency, do you REALLY think Nick did much to do with housework.
And while it doesn't make much sense, Trucy definitely mentions that she attends school and even makes friends there even if she spends all of AJ gallavanting around the place, that rules out looking after Trucy most days. Shopping can be done simply in an hour or so considering he lives in a city. What about the rest of his time? Besides he works nights in restaurants, it's not like he's up till the wee hours of the morning. Nick has plenty of time on his hands to watch the Samurai.
Quote:
Yes. Nobody's forcing him to write reports of every single episode. For example, do you, Herr Blondie, assume random friends and relatives of yours (say, your uncle) will play and write obsessive TL;DR essays about the Phoenix Wright series (A kiddie videogame!) just because you are obsessed with it, so you'll have 'something to talk about'? Of course not! There's plenty of other topics your uncle/friend can find to talk to you about.
Again this word 'reports' I think it's too formal maybe something Maya said but really I think she just mean reviews of the latest episodes to her. But while you're right there are other things they could talk about if the two share a fandom...they will probably discuss that, including the episodes of the Samurai adventures. Lookit this forum, there ARE other things to talk about but most folk talk AA.
Quote:
And it doesn't mean he doesn't either, which is what you (I think it was you) were trying to claim.
That don't matter, as standard people are neutral to each other. Therefore it's up to others to prove 'friends' are 'more than friends' as it stands there's nothing to prove he is anything more it doesn't NEED to disprove anything.
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Spoiler: This is OT
Quote:
Again this word 'reports' I think it's too formal maybe something Maya said but really I think she just mean reviews of the latest episodes to her. But while you're right there are other things they could talk about if the two share a fandom...they will probably discuss that, including the episodes of the Samurai adventures. Lookit this forum, there ARE other things to talk about but most folk talk AA.
Phoenix:
Now's the only time I get to
watch and write up my reports.
Apollo:
Your... reports?
Canon.
They don't 'share a fandom', not by Phoenix's own mutual interest and independent love of Steel Samurai anyway. That's half the point...
Quote:
That don't matter, as standard people are neutral to each other. Therefore it's up to others to prove 'friends' are 'more than friends' as it stands there's nothing to prove he is anything more it doesn't NEED to disprove anything.
What's that supposed to mean? Phoenix and Maya still have a strong relationship in GS4 negating any kind of ideas they never saw or contacted each other again or fell out or whatever, apparently this being important enough to Takumi to include evidence of, so shipping them GS4-era is perfectly viable. This whole argument is over one little scene and its deconstruction. If you wanted to argue over the GS4-era Phoenix/Maya viability generally, we take evidence and extrapolation from other areas, not base it solely on one little Easter Egg scene. But no, I'm NOT doing that now.
bye
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