Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
there's more...than meets the eye.
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Haha, those comics are incredible. It sums everything up perfectly.
Zak's alright, but I like Valant way better. I wonder if he ever found out who Lamiroir really was before he died (I assume he didn't, which is tragic.) I still don't get why Magnifi would ask a favor like that...was it because he just wanted his life to end quickly, considering all the sicknesses he had? Or was he just trying to cause a stir?
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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(Even 2-3 since krissi wouldn't be in jail so apollo might not of tooken the case)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
there's more...than meets the eye.
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Pierre wrote:
My god....Mantastic! I love it!
By any chance, are you making an allusion to this?
Spoiler:
:D
lol, I dunno if anyone posted that yet, but I saw "mantastic" and could not resist...
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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AsakiPhreek wrote:
Pierre wrote:
My god....Mantastic! I love it!
By any chance, are you making an allusion to this?
Spoiler:
:D
lol, I dunno if anyone posted that yet, but I saw "mantastic" and could not resist...
Yeah saw the picture on the first page and god I was wowed.
Now it's my MSN display picture.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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I mean, first off, when he came to the Borscht Bowl Club, wasn't he risking his life going there?
It was pretty dangerous, going out in the open all of a sudden, especially since we don't know how he lived out the last 7 years of his life (he could've gained a lot of enemies, after all).
And his main reason to go there was to make sure that Trucy was the heir to the Gramarye magic, not Valant. I think he'd have to care quite a lot for his daughter to do that.
Also, I think he turned down Kristoph for Trucy's sake. He was probably planning on leaving Trucy with his lawyer to begin with, if he was arrested or if he had to disappear, and since he knew of Kristoph's true nature, he decided to fire him and get a lawyer who had a good heart, which turned out to be Nick.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
They took some honey, from a tree...
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LawfulMagician wrote:
I think he is so not a jerk.
I mean, first off, when he came to the Borscht Bowl Club, wasn't he risking his life going there?
I mean, first off, when he came to the Borscht Bowl Club, wasn't he risking his life going there?
For the sake of delivering a letter to Wright. Oh, and smashing the last "credible" aspect he has.
Quote:
It was pretty dangerous, going out in the open all of a sudden, especially since we don't know how he lived out the last 7 years of his life (he could've gained a lot of enemies, after all).
While this could certainly be a very interesting fanfic exploring deeper into "Shadi's" life after his trial, from what we were told in 4-1, he was only a "traveller", supposedly only returning to the country recently. While it's possible that he made enemies overseas, I think that his "laying low" and his cunning disguise would make it fairly difficult for his enemies in the country to pinpoint him; moreso for enemies overseas; how on earth would they know that he'd go to the Borscht Bowl Club on that particular night? Well, other than potential coincidence, at least. But what if Shadi Smith is just another identity Zak goes by...curse him and his potential backstory that wasn't fully explored in detail!
Quote:
And his main reason to go there was to make sure that Trucy was the heir to the Gramarye magic, not Valant. I think he'd have to care quite a lot for his daughter to do that.
Very true. I think that a major point of contention is that he just left her. But the fact that he came back to secure her inheritance certainly shows compassion for her.
Quote:
Also, I think he turned down Kristoph for Trucy's sake. He was probably planning on leaving Trucy with his lawyer to begin with, if he was arrested or if he had to disappear, and since he knew of Kristoph's true nature, he decided to fire him and get a lawyer who had a good heart, which turned out to be Nick.
I refer back to my previous point; if Zak had simply told the truth, instead of acting all mystical and purposefully withholding key information and pieces of evidence from Kristoph/Phoenix, then the trial could've run a lot more smoothly, ruled the killing of Magnifi as a justified suicide as it was, and both acquit Zak and Valant. There'd be no need to flee and leave your daughter with Phoenix, the family'd still be together, Thalassa would show up sooner or later, and Phoenix would still be an Attorney. Happy end! And I'm still just bamboozled by the inept coroners of the court. You'd think one of the first things they'd check for with a gunshot wound, head or otherwise, is whether or not it was shot at point blank; perhaps Franziska should whip them into shape a bit more.
I mean, I can see where support for Zak comes from; but it can just be as easily said that his stubbornness, and consistent knowing withholding of vital info could be deemed as either incredibly stupid, or just being a right jerk.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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DerekAMW wrote:
Well at least Zak wasn't "Zak the Five-Eight Year Old Trucy Molestor".......wait that would be a very good idea for a fic.
No bad P.Skye! Suppress those thoughts.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Pierre wrote:
DerekAMW wrote:
Well at least Zak wasn't "Zak the Five-Eight Year Old Trucy Molestor".......wait that would be a very good idea for a fic.
No bad P.Skye! Suppress those thoughts.
Why, it's only a fictional video game series.
Spoiler:
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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folizzle_! wrote:
Zak Gramarye is a Jerk is one of my favourite comic series of all time. xD
Spoiler: Just in case...
That was my favorite part of the comic. <3
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Colonel Olrik wrote:
I refer back to my previous point; if Zak had simply told the truth, instead of acting all mystical and purposefully withholding key information and pieces of evidence from Kristoph/Phoenix, then the trial could've run a lot more smoothly, ruled the killing of Magnifi as a justified suicide as it was, and both acquit Zak and Valant.
Why would Valant be acquitted? He arranged the scene to look like a murder, so they would have to arrest SOMEONE. And Zak had no real reason to tell Phoenix about the rights to the magic. If the fact that he had the page was made known, it would prove that it was torn out before he left the room, incriminating Zak!
Colonel Olrik wrote:
And I'm still just bamboozled by the inept coroners of the court. You'd think one of the first things they'd check for with a gunshot wound, head or otherwise, is whether or not it was shot at point blank; perhaps Franziska should whip them into shape a bit more.
He was in a hospital bed for god knows how long, and therefore was in bad shape and not in any position to struggle. A point blank shot would be perfectly understandable.
EDIT: Also, the police in AA are retards.
EDIT 2: Besides, he sent those letters and was ready to die, therefore he would not struggle. It would be strange if it wasn't point blank!
Colonel Olrik wrote:
I mean, I can see where support for Zak comes from; but it can just be as easily said that his stubbornness, and consistent knowing withholding of vital info could be deemed as either incredibly stupid, or just being a right jerk.
Remind me again how he could have known that the page was vital? No ordinary person could match the tears on the piece of paper Phoenix had to the one in Zak's possession.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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GigaHand wrote:
Why would Valant be acquitted? He arranged the scene to look like a murder, so they would have to arrest SOMEONE. And Zak had no real reason to tell Phoenix about the rights to the magic. If the fact that he had the page was made known, it would prove that it was torn out before he left the room, incriminating Zak!
Ack! Well, I was thinking that instead of being convicted for the murder of Magnifi, he'd just be convicted of tampering with the crime scene. But then again, this is the AA world, I suppose, where you are guilty until speculated otherwise.
"Well, there's watertight evidence that both of them didn't kill him, your honor."
"Well, we can't have that! We need to convict someone! Was there any chance of suicide by the victim?"
"The coroners are too busy trying to sew the victim's hands to their own foreheads to high five each other when they headbutt."
"I think that leaves us with one option. Arrest Maya Fey! She's been on trial more times than Klavier's sold albums!"
Quote:
EDIT: Also, the police in AA are retards.
Agreed. See above funny (if you find it that way), quotation.
Quote:
Remind me again how he could have known that the page was vital? No ordinary person could match the tears on the piece of paper Phoenix had to the one in Zak's possession.
Well, IIRC, didn't it say that Magnifi was giving all rights to his magic to Zak? But then again, I don't think Zak knew that Trucy had given the "old boy" the forged diary paper. Unless he was looking from across the room. "Hmm, dat boy there just got a scrap o' paper. It must be a forged version of this one! I'll go and tell 'im straight this instant!" (don't know why Zak is now a Southerner). And I don't see Zak objecting in court when Phoenix presents the forged diary page. "Yer honor, that there evidence is falsified, ya hear?". Because that'd land 'em both in deeper mess.
Disregard my argument, it was trite. Good show!
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Colonel Olrik wrote:
"Well, there's watertight evidence that both of them didn't kill him, your honor."
"Well, we can't have that! We need to convict someone! Was there any chance of suicide by the victim?"
"The coroners are too busy trying to sew the victim's hands to their own foreheads to high five each other when they headbutt."
"I think that leaves us with one option. Arrest Maya Fey! She's been on trial more times than Klavier's sold albums!"
"Well, we can't have that! We need to convict someone! Was there any chance of suicide by the victim?"
"The coroners are too busy trying to sew the victim's hands to their own foreheads to high five each other when they headbutt."
"I think that leaves us with one option. Arrest Maya Fey! She's been on trial more times than Klavier's sold albums!"
SOMEONE NEEDS TO MAKE A COMIC LIKE THIS!
Colonel Olrik wrote:
Disregard my argument, it was trite. Good show!
You didn't make an argument, and what you said was far from trite.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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WhiteElephant wrote:
X Firing Kristoph over a poker game pretty much made Kristoph go super insane. Way to go Zak- you helped cause 4-4, in a sense.
I guess you're one of those people who, when some dude goes nuts and shoots 20 people at his school, say 'yeah its teh videogames' when the guy is clearly nuts and the nutter is to blame, not the games he plays?
Same goes for Kristoph, he was insane from the beginning. He would've gone nuts in the end anyway.
Love the comics btw
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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The part with Trucy asking to go for an ice-cream...classic.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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WHAT! A Rock Star beat Phoenix Wright in his first trial? A ROCK STAR? ARRGGGH Whips nearest person. Still doesn't excuse Zak of some of his other jerk actions like hitting Olga with the bottle. And I still think Zak was partly responisable parties for Phoenix's disbarrment along with Kristoph, Valant, and Drew Misham. At the very least, he could've giving a better apology. As far as Magnifi goes, as much as I love to blame him for Phoenix disbarrment, he himself had nothing to do with the trail. I would blame him if Valant didn't rearrange the scene. Everything before that was Magnifi's fault. Though I guess you could still blame him in the Kevin Costner Conspriacy Theory way if you wanted to.
I still think Zak's is and will always be a jerk though, and I still hate him. Though Magnifi will always be above Zak in both caterogy.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
Overruled?
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Quote:
The second good point Giga made is presenting the diary page wouldn't necesarry prove Zak was innocent. If Phoenix or Zak presented Zak's Rights, Klavier would probably just say that's the forged page.
Actually I brought this up in another topic, but this same thing could apply here.
Quote:
Drew proved the forged page was fake cause of a hidden watermark or something along those lines on it. If Phoenix had and presented the real one, and Klavier called Drew to try to expose it as a fake, Drew would say it wasn't his work, and Klavier would had gotten in a world of trouble. The situation would actually turn out quite the opposite. Phoenix would likey win the case by Klavier being held in contempt of court for attempting to frame him. Zak would had probably took off anyway, but at least Phoenix would still be a lawyer.
Zak's actions were completely inexcusable and hypocritical. Everyone's always going on and on about him finding a person he could trust, but he breaks the trust of his lawyer by withholding vital evidence, not telling him the full details of the case, and dumping a dependent on him after his life was destroyed. Then seven years later after Phoenix manages to get a somewhat decent means of getting revenue, Zak tries to ruin that too! Is that his way of saying thanks for raising his daughter for seven long years?
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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I have some points to bring up, if I may- I think some of Zak's actions were scrambled, think about it - His wife was shot, he had no idea if she was even alive anymore or if it was his bullet that took her life. After loosing somoene you love, your mind and thoughts could become blurred and uncontrolable. Now, add on the motherless-young-Trucy to deepen the stress, and the blackmailing troop master. After all that, he might have gone mad. Maybe he WANTED to run away. And that is why he planned to escape the trial, regardless of the verdict. (Of course, who knows if he was still planning to escape if he were claimed Not Guilty). But at least he found a decent father for Trucy, that might have been why he fired Kristoph too, as the point was brought up before.
Eh, could have holes, but thats just my thoughts for now.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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FEMM the Attorney wrote:
But at least he found a decent father for Trucy, that might have been why he fired Kristoph too, as the point was brought up before.
Um.
There was no way Zak knew that Phoenix would adopt Trucy. The most Zak would do, is assume Phoenix would be reasonable enough to hand Trucy over to child protection to go to an orphanage or whatever.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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icer wrote:
FEMM the Attorney wrote:
But at least he found a decent father for Trucy, that might have been why he fired Kristoph too, as the point was brought up before.
Um.
There was no way Zak knew that Phoenix would adopt Trucy. The most Zak would do, is assume Phoenix would be reasonable enough to hand Trucy over to child protection to go to an orphanage or whatever.
Yeah, and how did he expect Phoenix to be able to afford to look after Trucy when he had no job? Seeing as he was the very one who destroyed two of Phoenix's jobs, you'd have thought that would have worried him.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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P!ATD wrote:
icer wrote:
FEMM the Attorney wrote:
But at least he found a decent father for Trucy, that might have been why he fired Kristoph too, as the point was brought up before.
Um.
There was no way Zak knew that Phoenix would adopt Trucy. The most Zak would do, is assume Phoenix would be reasonable enough to hand Trucy over to child protection to go to an orphanage or whatever.
Yeah, and how did he expect Phoenix to be able to afford to look after Trucy when he had no job? Seeing as he was the very one who destroyed two of Phoenix's jobs, you'd have thought that would have worried him.
Icer lives?
I think she means that Zak originally never intended to have Trucy adopted by Phoenix, he just wanted to make sure Phoenix was a man he could trust to do the right thing. And see that Trucy went to a good home, not necessarily adopting him himself.
Besides all Zak did was flee the courtroom, under normal circumstances it's enough to make him suspicious and guilty. No big deal so Phoenix loses one case end of. It's Kristoph who really ruined Phoenix's job by forging evidence for him to use.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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DarkWobbuffet wrote:
But, if Zak had actually cooperated with Phoenix and showed him the real page and explained what really happened, maybe Phoenix wouldn't had lost his badge. As I already said, people go on and on about Zak wanting a lawyer he could trust, yet the hypocrite goes and breaks the trust of his lawyer.
Zak couldn't have known how things in the trial would turn out, as such he may not have kept the diary page on him. Zak had planned for the worst with his escape route but he didn't know there was a page forged or that the page would even come up. Besides maybe someone would have played the 'thats not official evidence' card again since it would be presented at the last minute by Zak and not approved by any police channel and it may have worked this time.
Zak is not to blame, the events of the trial were outside his control.
Of course his exit was suspicious but he's a showman, if he was to disappear from the magic scene forever I imagine he'd want one big trick that would go down in history.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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folizzle_! wrote:
Zak Gramarye is a Jerk is one of my favourite comic series of all time. xD
Spoiler: Just in case...
Good thing Apollo never had a chance to meet Zak, he would have brained Zak himself.
In my opinion, Zak is a jerk, yeah. But at least he wasn't really Magnifi's killer. That would have been a total jerk thing to do.
Spoiler:
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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"Come to my room and shoot me in the face. Magnifi Gramarye"
My favorite part
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Thalassa looked so cute, and so did Valant. XD
Thalassa: I also have a son :)
Zak: Not anymore you don't! *kick*
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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I mean, why? What gives him right or reason to throw another avoidable, unnecessary wrench in Feenie's already broken life? D:
Zak deserved that bottle in the head. >.>
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Spoiler: 4-4 4-1
) but, as Valant ended on detention center, Nick took Trucy as his daughter.LOTS OF TEXT
still... I laughed a lot with the comic
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
Something's off here...
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alva wrote:
I think the jerk is Valant, He tried to frame Zak , and was planning to kill Magnifi.
Woah, correct me if I'm wrong but when was Valant trying to kill Magnifi? And I get every reason why he tried to frame Zak. If I basically plowed over your emotions as your "friend" and took the woman you had your eyes on, you'd be pretty mad at me, too, no?
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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FayeSkye wrote:
Woah, correct me if I'm wrong but when was Valant trying to kill Magnifi?
Valant told Phoenix that at first he was going to kill Magnifi and frame Zak for the murder, but then when he couldn't do it. And when Magnifi killed himself he framed Zak.
FayeSkye wrote:
And I get every reason why he tried to frame Zak. If I basically plowed over your emotions as your "friend" and took the woman you had your eyes on, you'd be pretty mad at me, too, no?
Hmm...
Maybe Zak was the one who had his eyes on her first?, or maybe Valant wasn't THAT interesed on Thalassa? IIRC ''only Brushel talks about love triangle'' end quote.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Zak was found guilty of murdering his mentor, a crime which he didn't commit. It's possible at least part of him blamed Phoenix for this. And consider this: Did Zak know that Phoenix wasn't the one who forged that piece of evidence? He knew Phoenix had recieved something before the trial started, but was he aware that was it? If he didn't, then not only didn't Phoenix get him found guilty, but he also broke his trust by forging evidence. And said forged evidence could have easily gotten Valant the guilty verdict, and Zak probably knew he was innocent. As a result of his conviction, Zak had to leave behind everything he'd ever known and live in hiding for seven years. He likely couldn't do magic, he'd lost his wife-possibly to his own bullet,-had lost his mentor and been falsely blamed for killing him, had been framed by his partner, didn't have his daughter and had no guarantee she was okay, and he thought he had been betrayed by his attorney. I think that, much like Godot, he pushed everything onto Phoenix to deal with the pain, rather than consider his own part in the events. And there was still the possibility that he might have genuinely thought Phoenix was crooked. Thus he decided to take revenge, because he was bitter and miserable and couldn't take it any longer.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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TheSteelSamurai wrote:
I do think Zak is a jerk, but let's try to understand his thought process at the time he was reunited with Phoenix.
Zak was found guilty of murdering his mentor, a crime which he didn't commit. It's possible at least part of him blamed Phoenix for this. And consider this: Did Zak know that Phoenix wasn't the one who forged that piece of evidence? He knew Phoenix had recieved something before the trial started, but was he aware that was it? If he didn't, then not only didn't Phoenix get him found guilty, but he also broke his trust by forging evidence. And said forged evidence could have easily gotten Valant the guilty verdict, and Zak probably knew he was innocent. As a result of his conviction, Zak had to leave behind everything he'd ever known and live in hiding for seven years. He likely couldn't do magic, he'd lost his wife-possibly to his own bullet,-had lost his mentor and been falsely blamed for killing him, had been framed by his partner, didn't have his daughter and had no guarantee she was okay, and he thought he had been betrayed by his attorney. I think that, much like Godot, he pushed everything onto Phoenix to deal with the pain, rather than consider his own part in the events. And there was still the possibility that he might have genuinely thought Phoenix was crooked. Thus he decided to take revenge, because he was bitter and miserable and couldn't take it any longer.
Zak was found guilty of murdering his mentor, a crime which he didn't commit. It's possible at least part of him blamed Phoenix for this. And consider this: Did Zak know that Phoenix wasn't the one who forged that piece of evidence? He knew Phoenix had recieved something before the trial started, but was he aware that was it? If he didn't, then not only didn't Phoenix get him found guilty, but he also broke his trust by forging evidence. And said forged evidence could have easily gotten Valant the guilty verdict, and Zak probably knew he was innocent. As a result of his conviction, Zak had to leave behind everything he'd ever known and live in hiding for seven years. He likely couldn't do magic, he'd lost his wife-possibly to his own bullet,-had lost his mentor and been falsely blamed for killing him, had been framed by his partner, didn't have his daughter and had no guarantee she was okay, and he thought he had been betrayed by his attorney. I think that, much like Godot, he pushed everything onto Phoenix to deal with the pain, rather than consider his own part in the events. And there was still the possibility that he might have genuinely thought Phoenix was crooked. Thus he decided to take revenge, because he was bitter and miserable and couldn't take it any longer.
You could say that I suppose blaming Phoenix might be justified since he didn't know the whole story, hell the rest of the law abiding community did that. Still the forged evidence was made long before he took Phoenix as a lawyer plus it was his own daughter who gave it to Phoenix. I imagine as the final pieces were falling into place his daughter would be explaining that to him that it's not his fault. Of course the second they pointed out the forged evidence he may have been preparing his super escape route but I can't say he hated Phoenix....just losing at cards.
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Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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And it was never about losing at cards. Zak had that plan set up before he even started playing. He was pretty confident in his abilities, and even with his dislike of losing, I think he can handle it. If he cheated, it was to mess with Phoenix.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
Are u alwright, Mr. Wright?
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I saw that comic at that page two ays ago
I couldn't stop laughing
it was true all it said LOL
Kristoph was the one who made a favour to the world by killing that bitch.
Re: Zak Gramarye is a JERK (Spoilers lol~)
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Herr Fraulein wrote:
What grinds my gears most is why Zak had to go all crazy "I have to ruin you Feenie, LOLOLOL" at the Borscht Bowl Club.
I mean, why? What gives him right or reason to throw another avoidable, unnecessary wrench in Feenie's already broken life? D:
I mean, why? What gives him right or reason to throw another avoidable, unnecessary wrench in Feenie's already broken life? D:
I'm replaying case 4-4, and I found his reason buried within the dialogue.
Zak Gramarye wrote:
I despise losing above all else. And so, I have decided that I will win tonight. No matter what it takes.
Say it with me, people:
Herr Fraulein wrote:
Zak deserved that bottle in the head. >.>
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